Snowball Ats Bots and Macros

some of you are in denial. anet was able to detect the first version of GWCA purely because source was released. anet wont ban any current bots in use, especially anything not even gwca based.

I have followed many threads on this issue and never seen it officially sanctioned by Anet, source please.

If macros are legit go go drop, side step, select nearest item and action in one freaking key stroke. GG skill huh?

Really....

Silver

Undoubtedly, anger has something to do with it. However, to dismiss all accusations out of hand as a result of jealousy is ignorant.
Anet has sanctioned G15 macros that don't "play the game for you." Whether or not pickup-spam macros fall under that is only borderline debatable.
By all accounts, Anet doesn't know how to detect or deal with the methods used currently.

I still don't get one thing, why do you keep comparing TOP GvGers to events like this ? Of course you can't ever expect same results as they do on their "daily" basis around the year on a different game format. Very, very understandable. If some could compare these game formats like they'd be on the same level, they'd be totally blind.

Hardcore players vs casual players, result: you know it. Same applies for GvG's.

And what comes to picking up a present, it's all about luck (meaning: ping, clicks + actions / defined time) unless you're facing a bot/macro/whatsoever, like you said there. Don't get me wrong, but I'm really surprised if you thought some of us would be giving wrong information about this matter.

PS. I've played with Yuri a.k.a. your defined BOTTER the past 4 years, and yes, I can beat him and his "trianglish" dodge moves (hardcore event gamer vs hardcore event gamer, what can happen ?). What, that defines me as a botter aswell ? Oh dear. Who's blind again ?

Yep, im not dissmising there accusations completely, just I feel the majority that get frustrated are the ones pointing fingers.

Pol

For some reason, I see Dhuum polishing his scythe ^^

I'm pretty sure Anet will launch another ban-wave
(maybe as part of the dervish update: scythes autokill bots ^^)

I'm think too many people believe I get all mad behind my computer over botting in RBR and snowball. I don't. However, the reason why I keep making these threads, or bringing up the related issues because I do care.

I care that there is french people out there farming 5+ beetles each year, and selling those individually for 300+ dollar each, and as a result, I don't get one. (I was 103th orso last year)

I care that there is people farming 2000+USD worth of zkeys, selling them on black market sites (and if you wanna be evil: care that they push the prices down of zkeys by selling them in such large masses), and as a result keeping me and my guild from better prices.

I don't get mad over it. I don't throw my mic at the wall every time I loose to someone whom I expect to be botting, I will, however, raise awareness of this issue any way I can, and do everything, to a reasonable extend, I can to get these players the punishment they deserve.

For some reason, this gets labeled as "Mad", but I'll just leave it at that.

I compare top GvG'ers, because top GvG'ers have proven to be good at GW. I know that under current conditions, it's a highly doubtfull statement, but anyone slightly involved in PvP would know Candygirl, the brittish players (passive), spank, hadshi, and so on.

I pick these players because they are good at GW, as a whole. You can claim "Snowball is something completely different", but it's not. It's still the same game, abiding the same rules and conditions, played in the same way every other aspect is played.

On top of that, Snowball fights can hardly be concidered 'hard' tactical wise. Rezzing every 5 seconds is largely part of this, but still.

The truth is that Snowball fights can be reduced to a very simply essence, that essence being: picking up the present faster than your opponent. Drop n Dodging is all good and well, and a "skill" that should definatly be promoted, but in order to DnD, you first need to be able to pick up the present.


And this is where we disagree. You say it's about luck, I say it's about "skill". The person who can offer the server the "pick up" command the fastest will pick up said relic. And this is where the bot comes in. A real player will never be as fast as the bot I've previously mentioned, because 1 ms, in game time, is the absolute fastest reaction one could possible have. Add to that your ping, and you've got a reaction time far below what is remotely human possible.

The only chance you, as a player, have against a bot is spamming the pickup command, and "hoping" one of your spikes comes before the bot's reaction. (So your packet left right before the enemy dropped the relic) And the truth here is that this doesn't happen alot. I've already explained the example where I outpicked up 3 of my friends for 10 minutes straight, and they dind't manage to steal the flag more than a couple of times. (Like 5 out of 1000) Even then this was largely to blame on the fact I had GW minimized and I was browing some websites. Only goes to show that with minimal processor resources, a bot will still be faster than 3 highly focused players.

I've played against Yuri aswell. I've beaten him numerous of times during RBR, and I've outpicked up him during snowball. I'm not targetting anyone individually, because the people running bots know they are. If you legitimatly know you're not botting, what are you getting so upset about?

But hey, I invite anyone to post a video of him playing snowballs. I even dared Yuri, and many other MoO or dth members whom I directly or indirectly accused of botting to post a video of them playing snowball and performing DnD's.

I know it's alot of effort, but to proove for once and for all, it seemed a reasonable offer.

Noone replied to said invitation to allow people to watch how "the pro players" play snowball.

What about your name going bad? Every time you come in an outpost and people will start flaming you for stuff you don't do?

Please LEARN TO LOSE Borat!

They should have made some history for guilds , in order to make tournaments groups more balanced. I don't really like when , on every single tournament , 1 group is won by [LR] , 2nd one is won by [hf] and 3rd one won by [MoO]. This happens on almost every single AT...Point is that those guilds are playing 24/7 , unlike majority of others , thus some others are still good , but can't have same level than those( you can also think of bots , although i don't think [MoO] i don't really know for other 2 ..)

It would have been more interesting with some history to match same level guilds then on same group. You then can't know who is gonna win amongst those 3 , and for other groups it's kinda same..

That would be impossible since guilds will just make a smurf to get into the lower ranked group.

* Stands next to Killed You ...I must be mad then because I Care Too, i`ve even gone as far to download gamecam so i can vid the various JQ bots in action , just to upload them on to the 2 month long support ticket i have going.

Funny thread, it are always the same people defending the bots and the cheaters.

I consider myself a pretty good sb-player, but competing against these 24/7 guilds is just too much.

But he's usually right, much to the dismay of botters, exploiters who deny their wrongdoings, as well as people who play gimmicky overpowered crap under the illusion that they're skilled.

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. - Gandhi.

One of the main reasons I don't pvp are the bots (not funny to see a me rupting all my 1/4 spells and never failing at rupts (had 1 skill 3/4 activation time rest 1/4 or no activation time and surprise he rupted me everytime i was using 1/4 spells, didn't even tried to use the 3/4 one cause it was obvisous the result) and he was not just spamming rupts on me cause i watched him ). I didn't even did snowball this year with my chars, but I saw on my father chars what is happening (teaching my father to play gw).

I come to gw from a game where 95% of the players use bots (got tired of being one of the few legit players in that game) cause at least in gw the bots don't affect me directly in pve.

I lol'd.... 1 minute research on google then u can find a GWCA v3 that is claimed to be undetectable....

I wonder when will be the second wave of massive ban....

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/b...tml?t=10464550

See above link to thread, some people here think macros are legit, whilst some folks in the above thread say its not legal. The community is divided on this or perhaps spreading misinformation to justify their use of macros. Well being as there is no source proof currently being brought forward then anyone using a macro is on very thin ice.

Anyone who is not using the bots and macros, has skill or is just bad has nothing to lose whatsoever. No one here needs to defend anyone, if and when Anet decide to do anything then it will be more then evident who was botting or using complex/simple macros.

If your good at the game you also have nothing to lose, so why are some folks getting all defensive or are in denial?

Silver

Well, anyone who thinks macros are "OK" is pretty ignorant. Heck, I run simply auto-it scripts (self made) myself for stuff such as drunkard and pumping sweets.

It's been established since 2005 that not a single macro is "OK". Any software or hardware that interferes with GW in such a way it wasn't intended (INCLUDING G15) can get you banned.

The main confusion comes from keyboard macros, but people need to understand:

A keyboard macro is exactly the same as a software macro.

If you have a keyboard macro to spam keyclicks at superhuman rate (for spamming stacks of sweets), there is no way NCSoft will be able to tell the difference between that keyboard, or you running an actual script.

Does this mean everyone using G15's or basic clicking scripts get banned? No.

Why not? Because they are tolerated.

People confused that with "allowed" or sometimes even "promoted by", which is offcourse 3 different things. It's highly doubtfull anyone will get banned for a very basic clicking script, but as guru threads have shown, some people did, in fact, get banned for G15 scripts.

However, the question then rises: did they leave their script on running for days on straight? If so, the anwser is pretty obvious...

And on top of all this: Anyone who plays PvP with scripts (weapon swap, ...) should know they're only fooling themselves. PvP should be played for the challenge, not for the rewards, and hence: it's never a true victory if you have advantages your opponent doesn't have.

That why I myself only play GW in it's purest form. I don't use bots, macros, overlays (enemy party window), so that when I do beat someone (who might or might not be botting), I know that I am undoubtingly better. -Given the fact that other factors line up offcourse, such as builds-

The bots were talking about here, however, are far from macros. They are bots that play the game for you, and all a player running these bots has to do is "walk around". (As it would be really hard to code a decent positioning script, so just leave that to a player of reasonable skill)

As a matter of fact:

Anyone who mastered the DnD skill (similar to weaponswapping for BBwarrior) would find that simply "knowing" when a KD"ing snowball is incomming, would be enough to perform a good DnD. So a simple overlay that warns you when a KD'ing snowball is incomming/being cast would be enough of a help to turn an otherwise "average" player in a godlike one.

If all the lowlifes in the Guilds that got the top position think you're so good, then why dont you stop using your Macro's? (or for the bolder ones the Bots) and let's see just how "PRO" you become.. that's what i think...

Admit it you're just too afriad to let some random NOOB whom will beat you time and time again, crushing your failed ego even more.

after all Cheaters if making 20 extra zkeys at the end of a game tournament makes you feel more competent about yourself because naturally you dont have the True Tallent of the so called " NOOBS" then more power to you bot and macro on..

Rember kiddys if you got no skill and you want to look cool you can allways cheat and if that fails just ebay



ok so ive been playing a fair few snowball ats allmost every round every day and i can say with out a doubt that there are players useing bots or marcos.
on that note we can all say, That bots are BAD. and marcos well heres the thing there bad as well, hear me out on this target iteam +pick up on one key i mean dosent seam to bad when you just do that well lets take it one step more and go target iteam + pickup x2 on one key then we can keep going and make it x100 or even x1000
sure its easy enfu to do and everyone can do it but then it becoms point less.

Bots should have a 100% success rate, due to packet reading ect... however these players that are supposedly "botting", can and do fail all the time. If you knew how to play against dnd, you can pretty much guarentee taking the present when you have a kd snowball.

lol , why would you need an overlay when the game already presents you with visual information of incoming snowballs. I.E. move your character with the camera view behind you so you can actually watch the field of play.

Not really : people would then need the 7 days requirement , and considering playing 24/7 , they would need to change guild like every 2 tournaments . So , then it would turn into only guesting in different guilds , which isn't really that bad ( pretty sure people would play better if they fought LR players in a guild called [GOTH] for example than in real [LR]; that's like you're fighting nadal masked on tennis , but you don't know it's nadal... )

Not true:

You need 2 members of 7 days so you can just create a guild with 2 players, guest 6 others.

For 8 players this are already 4 guilds + if let's say 6 of them have an alt acc (players who play guildwars for a very long time usually have one, sometimes even more)

So that are already 7 guilds.

When a guild becomes out of use, disband and remake for 7 days later.

This is just how guilds who would want to stay low would do it i think...
Pairing up strong guilds in the same group wouldn't work at all!

This was the most challenging group, and it only happened once

ROFL and my computer and all the associated software work 100% of the time also.

I have encountered several guilds using bots and macros in Snowball ATs. It is very obvious when guilds are using bots and macros.

I want to raise the point that the use of macros (outside of what Guild Wars itself offers) is against the Guild Wars rules of conduct. This is because the rules of conduct states that players may not use any third-party program in order to interact within Guild Wars. This includes any software for making and executing macros (for example the g11 and g15 keyboards that have been talked about). This includes the use of even simple macros.

Here is the link to the Guild Wars rules of conduct: http://eu.guildwars.com/support/arti...es_of_conduct/

Here is the direct quote from the rules of conduct:
"22. You may not use any third-party program (such as a “bot") in order to automate gameplay functions, including playing, chatting, interacting, or gathering gold or items within Guild Wars. You may not assist, relay, or store gold or items for other players who are using these processes."

As you can see it also states that players may not assist players who are using these processes. So if you are playing with a macro/bot user, even if you are not using macros/bots, you are violating the rules of conduct. If a player sees a team that is using bots and/or macros, it is valid to report both the player(s) using the bots and/or macros as well as their teammates.

The guys at Anet have been busy with the holiday season and Guild Wars 2. It may take some time, but I expect Anet to take action against those who have been repeatedly violating the rules of conduct in Snowball Ats. I urge Anet to take action against these users and fully support any action that they take.

Point is that they don't care enough of GW1 in updates so it's not like they will do something at this. I saw on B some obvious botting on last AT too , but well , even if they cared they would say " anyway , snowball ATs only last 2 weeks " or " if you want rewards go farm snowball dominance " ...
Those last bannings didn't do anything , people are still syncing in GvG and pretty sure some still do bot in HA. I don't really care much as i did about bots for HA , especially coz i know game is completly dead now. You can see almost every PvP area is abused in a certain way , and they won't do anything for it ..

Seems like more teams are using the bots and macros.......so sad to see players lack actual skill and have to 'cheat'.

Silver

If you made a bot and didn't want to get banned, wouldn't you program it to make "mistakes" some times to make it look less botty? Like how people program farm bots to have slight irregularities so that they are less obvious than a perfect cycle.

I think their actions from early last year show that they will do something about this. They are probably just staying quiet like they did last time until they can ban them all at once. It also takes time to find and catch bots I guess - in a way which is thorough and comprehensive. ArenaNet chooses to wait and punish players rather than actively discourage them from breaking the rules in the first place. Personally I prefer preventative measures because it stops some people from breaking the rules in the first place.

Yes we can only hope that is the case currently, however it seems the feedback from last year snowball ATs did not make it to the Anet Live Team/CR table. Lets hope it makes it this time and action will be taken retroactively. At the moment many players are being penalised by bad players who are using macros and bots. Also, many guilds and players have been turned off this feature of the event so its Anet interest to show that they can and will act, especially if they are to win the confidence going forwards to GWII.

Silver

I'd like to add lag to this. Everyone who PvP's or in-general plays GW's knows it happens and can f**k over even the best of players and the best of bots.



The problem is preventitive actions don't work. You still see hacks, cheats, and bots in games with prevention. Even 100% perfect detection are far from perfection.

Anti-botting will always be reactive because proactive is simply in-efficent. Sure changing an Id here or an id there will mess with it for a day...Sure adding in some seperate prevention like gameguard will work until someone figures out how to f**k up the prevention system (which gameguards prevention is laughable considering how it's borderline malware)

The single ban wave of last year was a poor decision made solely for the PR value.

If Anet had actually done something to dissuade botting in the six months where GWCA became a household term, the problem might never have escalated to the point where it did. Instead, they refused to acknowledge that any issue existed, which was indubitably a factor in the eventual extent of the problem. Withholding any sort of official announcement until the ban actually happened only served to increase the number of people they could eventually hold up as the successful results of their dragnet, when in reality, the game would have been far better served nipping the problem in the bud.

I second this opinion.


And for OP, it is possible for good players to be good without use of bots. Are you aware of the target nearest item command? Quickly spamming this and your space bar (default) can cause an almost instant pickup.

Yes I do, I get to ninja presents easily from non-macro/bot teams as I can see kds incoming. Rarely do I get to ninja presents from macro users and botters, macros repeat the action 'XXX' times for my several well timed ones.

Silver

Well we know Anet will keep quiet on this as they did with the bots in GvG, yes there used in HA but because of the QQ in GvG did Anet do something. So, question is, are the bots/macros being used in normal GvG?

Anyone on the Live Crew want to inform us if Anet are aware of the problem?

Silver

Silverblad3, the only bots they banned where the ones using whatever protocol GWCA was using. They could only ban said people because the source was released, and it was only copy paste work for them to detect injections.

Some of most appreciated players in GvG, snowball and RBR are using exploits on/or bots. It's only a matter of time before the "next gen" bots get released, aka the fully undetectable ones. The ones who are at the roots of the entire botting community (Call them the private bots, the elite ones), the ones who create the bots never got banned, unless they experimented with the shitty public released one.

I can assure you that there is far worse bots and exploits than this snowball shenannigans. They get a free once-in-year real life reward of around 500/1000 USD, so be it. (Which doesn't affect the rest of the community)

There's prot bots, infuse bots, weaponswap ones, bull's strike ones, there's overlays and those are only the gameplay infecting ones.

There's exploits which let you teleport to any outpost (forced map travels), exploits which allowed you to play all of the seasoned events outside of the season, and there's still so much more.

NCSoft is aware of most of them, or was anyways, but they refuse to do anything about them.

Hey Borat

I knew it was bad, but not that bad....Well all we can do is keep raising the profile and letting folks know that people can get away with cheating for a while until anet decides to do something if at all.

That most of the screens of admissions and botting reports will not be even noticed.

So bad that new players are being put off by the crap and that it does not bode well for GW2.

Silver

Well, tbh it's not that bad... With that I mean that we've had it worse, remember the weeks after the interrupt bot got released?

It's just that you can't expect anyone to take your game serious when there is people cheating in the highest tiers of PvP. All this PvP love Anet is talking is meaningless if no preventions are being made to stop these botters.

On the other side, you can't expect NCSoft to spend major resources solely to stop botting/exploiting, so it's delicate case. By doing nothing, however, NCSoft is giving the go ahead for these bots to slowly start spreading again. You can already find an undetectable weaponswap bot (You select each weaponset that goes with a skill you press, the program will automatically put you in that set, and swap back to shield after every cast) by googeling 5 minutes.

NCSoft should've stepped up their game a long time ago, be it through locating the source of these bots and shutting it down, or by having "undercover" people join these alledged websites, get their hands on source and then do a full system wipe making sure you get all of the acounts of the people who are actively creating these bots.

Anyways, that's what they should be doing if this entire "BIG GW2 TOURNAMENT"-shizzle is planned to go through...

Well, you make several good points. I just know that the folks I play with in the snowball gvg were really pissed off that it has happened again, that good players and players who want to learn/practice honestly are being penalised.

Anet wont do anything with the reports on botters or take 6 months to come up with a solution. Yet the excuse of lack of resources is complete BS, when they milk the customers with costumes, several times a year. So they could use some of that money for preventing some of this crap.

It is a terrible state for the game. The lack of making a fair environment by anet,and the steps they should have taken but have not. I can only hope they do something to make credible the GW franchise. Otherwise GW2 is just going to be a sh*tfest in PvP.

Silver

So any news if Anet officially recognises the problem? Any of the Test Krewe care to comment to see if this has been flagged to Anet? Seems to me that its way too quiet.....Last time after months of quietness 3,500+ accounts were banned, are we too hopeful?

Silver