I agree that the dervish now is more equal with assassins and warriors, but we are discussing in this thread how to create new crit scythes and not which profession is now better at using the scythe. (although it is obvious out of the updated skills it is more geared at primary dervish because enchantment requirements and attribute spread)
Given that asuran scan has been nerfed along with BUH! and AoHM, I think discussing the options for making a A/D that can do better than a D/A or W/D (at least in terms of scythe damage) is valid. If you are making a critscythe, it better do something a D/W or A/any with daggers can't do. A A/D doesn't have SY! like a D/W or W/D.
20 Feb 2011 at 18:02 - 18
I agree that the dervish now is more equal with assassins and warriors, but we are discussing in this thread how to create new crit scythes and not which profession is now better at using the scythe. (although it is obvious out of the updated skills it is more geared at primary dervish because enchantment requirements and attribute spread)
20 Feb 2011 at 19:05 - 19
Thing is we never bother trying to make a sin better than d/ - out of all the professions sins get a raw deal with having toothpicks as weapons , stick on that having to use a damn attack chain to get actual dmg specially in hm - hell 7-17 in hm isnt much.
Scythes now have decent attack speed and even as basic dmg will out dmg daggers basic dmg - but its more dmg and abaility to hit 3 foes at once.
The question is - as a sin do you want be doing dmg and killing faster or even in a team would you want an efficient killing sin ?
You are only as strong as your weakest link and we all know attack chains can be blocked or broken same as casters can be shut down but casters dont rely on attack chains.
If you dislike a profession then dont use it - no one forces you to play or be any chr , i dont see ( tho a few team builds were made in gw ) of pure sins vq`ing every zone an dungeon etc all of the time , rarely have i seen 3 or more sins in a team .
20 Feb 2011 at 19:17 - 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by LifeInfusion
Given that asuran scan has been nerfed along with BUH! and AoHM, I think discussing the options for making a A/D that can do better than a D/A or W/D (at least in terms of scythe damage) is valid. If you are making a critscythe, it better do something a D/W or A/any with daggers can't do. A A/D doesn't have SY! like a D/W or W/D.
but this is the assassin forum and that as this is a new update it is more interesting to know what are the Options are for A/D not the discussion in this thread which profession is better at a scythe. I am not disagreeing one is better or not ( i did not have the time for this).
20 Feb 2011 at 19:34 - 21
25 vs 33 is a big deal, those are speed reductions not bonuses, it's more like 50 vs 33, and 17% damage bonus matters. Not enough to unseat dervs but it's relevant.
Even on a sin I don't think its sensible to fight the enchant feeding mechanics. The sin elites are horrible, the two scythe elites require enchants, and vow of strength ought to bring eremites which also requires an enchant. Critical strikes feeds enchants just as well as attacks. Heres what I had on wounding strike for example:
Wounding Strike
Victorious Sweep
Reap Impurities/Malicious Strike
Rending Aura
Critical Eye
Way of the Master
Critical Agility
EBSoH/IAtS/Dodge This/optional
6 wind 13 crit 12 scythe
One thing that's nice is bleed always ends up top, which serves as a great feeder condition for reap.
FWIW this actually outdamages a similar dervish build. Of course dervs have some very different and better builds with their enchant manipulation, but it goes to show that critical hits and 33% IAS are still relevant.
20 Feb 2011 at 19:42 - 22
Ok... A/Ds.
I highly doubt you'll be able to fuel 10e flash enchantments and 5e ones aren't too common. In effect, teardown skills aren't too viable.
Malicious Strike is good, Reap Impurities looks like it might be good, Wounding Strike is dubious. So we need another way to inflict conditions reliably. Grenth's Grasp might fit the bill and cripple is nice for a physical and Grenth's Fingers converts your damage to cold (and is cheap and has a decent recharge).
So:
Victorious Sweep
Malicious Strike
Reap Impurities
Grenth's Fingers
Grenth's Grasp
Critical Agility
Way of the Master
Critical Eye
Unfortunately that doesn't leave room for something like Asuran Scan in areas where it'd be useful. The damage conversion to Cold also sucks. The skill recharges really suck.
I might test it later.
20 Feb 2011 at 20:45 - 26
Just gave this a try on the MoD; got significantly better results than I did with the Grenth's Grasp build, but I cheated and used Olias to keep Withering Aura on me to ensure a condition for Malicious Strike. Staggering Force was not allowed to end so I didn't benefit from Cracked Armour.
10+1+2 Critical Strikes
11 Scythe Mastery
10 Earth Prayers
Victorious Sweep
Malicious Strike
Radiant Scythe
Staggering Force
Ebon Dust Aura
Critical Eye
Critical Agility
Way of the Master
I would say a Zealous Scythe is necessary for this build whereas it probably isn't for the others. My Assassin only has a Zealous scythe at the moment so I haven't tested without.
21 Feb 2011 at 02:00 - 27
Hit MoD, the energy works out better than fine with a zealous scythe. Assassins don't have expertise and yet power out the daggerspam build, in the end it's just pure energy and flash enchants (which don't stop you from attacking) can eat that as well as anything else. An adrenal skill actually manages better than malicious strike, since while the latter always nets 0, the adrenal can be +5 when you crit, which is often with your crit enchants.
Even if there were energy problems, I'd drop victorious before abandoning enchants. Deep wound and cracked spam is alot better than +24.
21 Feb 2011 at 21:43 - 28
Pious Renewal
Pious Assault
Eremite's Attack
Twin Moon Sweep
Aura of Holy Might
Critical Agility
Critical Eye/Optional
Way Of The Master
CS 12+1+1
SM 12
Crazy but it works ... especially in HM
21 Feb 2011 at 23:11 - 29
That bar is pretty legit, about the same dmg on paper as wounding, but better AoE radius. Put wearying strike on the bar and you have plenty of deep wound too.
22 Feb 2011 at 00:26 - 31
Hitting multiple enemies with a Zealous Scythe should net enough energy. TMS is a lot of energy gain. I'd have to test the numbers and compare with the other builds before I really comment though.
22 Feb 2011 at 00:32 - 32
I wouldn't use Pious Renewal on a sin but whatever works I guess.
22 Feb 2011 at 02:18 - 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenomortis
Hitting multiple enemies with a Zealous Scythe should net enough energy. TMS is a lot of energy gain. I'd have to test the numbers and compare with the other builds before I really comment though.
Really hard to believe that even w/ a zealous scythe. We're looking at what are essentially two 10e attack skills, one on a 3 sec recharge, and a 5e attack skill with the possibility of a good energy return.
However, I might believe it if you put Radiant Scythe in place of Eremites... Maybe...
22 Feb 2011 at 07:50 - 34
Some MoD numbers
Both chars had a 14 Strength of Honor as their only buff. (it's hard for me to imagine a team where this isn't avaliable) Also used uncustomized weapons, and rank 3 kurzick title. Chars were positioned to only hit MoW with their basic attacks (but eremite's ticked & gained arenaline/energy from the barrels when alive)
D/? 14 scythe 13 myst vampiric scythe
Pious Renewal
Pious Fury
Pious Assault
Eremite's Attack
Irresistible Sweep
Twin Moon Sweep
Aura of Holy Might
Open (SY?)
A/D 14 crit 12 scythe, zealous scythe
Pious Renewal
Pious Assault
Eremite's Attack
Twin Moon Sweep
Cricital Eye
Way of the Master
Critical Agility
Aura of Holy Might
Both of these managed about 90 DPS
Confounding factors... of course armor is higher in HM, so armor-ignoring procs like AoHM go further, but the derv is only getting an extra ~6 DPS from that source @ max faction. A customized scythe would function a little better in the hands of a sin than a derv, questionable if it's enough to make up for armor. Not to mention that the sin is proc-ing SoH (armor ignoring) more often with the higher attack rate. Regardless of which one is "superior" (in b4 "SY" comment), the sin build is remarkably close/competitive in damage, enough so that you might pick this to damage highly balled foes than DB spam. (And seriously, play the damn build before whining about energy.) There are likely better scythe builds to discover, but this ought to be enough to demonstrate that the sin is still relatively competent at scythe damage, and worth working on instead of giving up.
The MW numbers on Wounding Strike build are much lower, around 70, but he doesn't factor in the deep wound and cracked armor, plus has an open slot for EBSoH or whatever. Need to build a derv WS or other condition spammer for reference first.
22 Feb 2011 at 13:43 - 35
I feel like A/D would do more damage (scythewise) because crits hit for max damage x 1.41 , which is equal to 16 scythe.
There's only a loss of a few damage on attack skills at most, but not needing a zealous scythe is +5 from vamp or double adrenaline (10%) from furious + ability to run whatever secondary is a big deal to me.
Also Pious Renewal is at 0 spec on the sin so whatever happens w/ respect to damage it's ultimately a gimmick.
22 Feb 2011 at 19:31 - 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxBat
Some MoD numbers
Both chars had a 14 Strength of Honor as their only buff. (it's hard for me to imagine a team where this isn't avaliable) Also used uncustomized weapons, and rank 3 kurzick title. Chars were positioned to only hit MoW with their basic attacks (but eremite's ticked & gained arenaline/energy from the barrels when alive)
D/? 14 scythe 13 myst vampiric scythe
Pious Renewal
Pious Fury
Pious Assault
Eremite's Attack
Irresistible Sweep
Twin Moon Sweep
Aura of Holy Might
Open (SY?)
A/D 14 crit 12 scythe, zealous scythe
Pious Renewal
Pious Assault
Eremite's Attack
Twin Moon Sweep
Cricital Eye
Way of the Master
Critical Agility
Aura of Holy Might
Both of these managed about 90 DPS
Confounding factors... of course armor is higher in HM, so armor-ignoring procs like AoHM go further, but the derv is only getting an extra ~6 DPS from that source @ max faction. A customized scythe would function a little better in the hands of a sin than a derv, questionable if it's enough to make up for armor. Not to mention that the sin is proc-ing SoH (armor ignoring) more often with the higher attack rate. Regardless of which one is "superior" (in b4 "SY" comment), the sin build is remarkably close/competitive in damage, enough so that you might pick this to damage highly balled foes than DB spam. (And seriously, play the damn build before whining about energy.) There are likely better scythe builds to discover, but this ought to be enough to demonstrate that the sin is still relatively competent at scythe damage, and worth working on instead of giving up.
The MW numbers on Wounding Strike build are much lower, around 70, but he doesn't factor in the deep wound and cracked armor, plus has an open slot for EBSoH or whatever. Need to build a derv WS or other condition spammer for reference first.
