Should heroes be able to use PvE-skills?

i rather they adjust skills on professions rather than on PvE skills, everyone's just going solo-ing w/ their heros.

Will/would you?

Is playing with other people a burden to you?

You only play with other people because of their pve-only skills?

If you answer yes to any of these questions you don't really like to play with other people and you don't really like games where you have to.

Would you like to play with people that see you as a burden, a PvE-only skill wh0re and immediately trade you for koss or livia if they could use PvE-only skills?

No. Most PvE-only skills shouldn't even be in the game. However, their unique niches DO prompt more interaction from the player instead of afking each mob with 7 heroes.

Is the game not easy enough yet? we might as well make a "You Win the Game" button.

i try not to play by myself, it gets boring

nope, rather i like it and i like the challenge. I play monk, and when people are a burden, the better, shows I have what it takes to keep the group alive with the skills i learn from past experience.

quite the opposite of what you think of me actually.

If people see me as a burden, i'd just play with other people than. Just leave the party and find another.

it seems you mis-understand what i said. If players are allowed to have PvE skills on their heros. The game would be boring and people will just not find groups anymore. It defeats the purpose of mmorpg , where people hang out and play together. I am one of those that actually like to hang out with friends and play, not stuck with my heros, unless i am forced to.

I do not see the point at all in the suggestion of PVE skills.

I play with a friend all the time.


So you prefer to play with warriors that use mending?

You can give that to Koss as well and he runs like a chicken too...

What if your PUG is great?



I wasn't passing any judgments on you. I just asked you questions that everyone can answer.

Obviously you didn't answer yes to any of my questions (I meant burden in the sense that people would be arrogant/annoying/rude or simply because it would meant you couldn't stop playing to go to the loo/let your cat out/cook tea/go out shopping and resume in a couple of hours) so the conclusion doesn't apply to you.


So if those people were playing with only heroes it wouldn't make a difference to you, right?


I don't understand your logic.

You are saying that even if you had 7 heroes and PvE-only skills on them you would prefer playing with other people and would search for parties, correct?

So what prevents other people to be like you and do the same?

It seems you just want to force people that would rather play alone with their heroes to have a reason to party, even if they don't want it.

You know, some time ago, PvP players were concerned because Anet was adding more content to PvE and that would mean less players would switch from PvE to PvP.

You know something? People that didn't want to PvP would never switch to PvP - they would either keep PvEing or leave the game.

Would you switch to PvP (maybe you already like to play PvP) if after the prophecies campaign all was left was pvp? Or would still play PvE or switch game?

It is a similar situation.

Think of Guild Wars not as an MMORPG - think of it as collection of games - solo RPG, MMORPG, CORPG, FARMING game, TRADE GAME, PvP game.

Some players will stay on their own separate GW world and others will jump in between some games.

Force someone to do something they don't want to do IN A GAME ON THEIR FREE TIME and they will stop playing GWs.

So, please don't be concerned that people will stop playing with other people. Those that want will regardless. Those that don't want wont regardless.

There is a limit to that before the massive advantage of playing with AI overwhelms the desire to group. Even if I LIKE to play with people, at the end of the day they're strangers in a game, and I'm not going to massively gimp myself JUST so I could socialize.

I never understood this logic of "pugs would still play with pugs"....if Anet gives every hero an insta-win godmode skill I'm sure that 99% of puggers would jump ship, regardless of how much they like to group. You can't expect people to pug just for the sake of pugging because this is a mmorpg with goals...not a chat room.

But on the other hand someone needs to PUG even if they rather not socialize to not gimp himself?


Strawman.

Nobody is asking for anything that isn't in the game already, so heroes won't have any insta-win godmode skill, so please stop creating scenarios that aren't on the table.

If a 7 hero party can become an instant win because it has PvE-only skills, so will a 8 human party.

Ursan was the closest thing to godmode in this game. I never played it except for the mission where it is required.

Heroes will never be able to SC since they can't split.

Still people played h/h, even though they were gimping themselves and this is an mmropg with goals and not a chat room...

And why are you playing an MMORPG if you don't want to play with people?

For example, I don't play GW as a MMORPG. Maybe it isn't a MMORPG and so the socializing part is optional.

Again, same arguments that could have been quoted from any "7 heroes" thread.

i still think PvE skills should just be removed from game, period

and yes, adding PvE skills to heros would actually kill the whole PUG concept, because every PUG wants certain PvE skills on your bars to make the "team" more effective. if your heros could have said skills, then why would anyone bother looking for a group

seriously even before today's update, PvE has gotten so easy you can literally VQ an area with your eyes closed. 7 hero teams have made it even easier. so quit asking for more BS that will just take away what little bit of fun is left in the game.

i swear noone likes to actually play a game anymore, all they want is the easy way out.

Dude.

I've been vanquishing areas and rofl stomping areas for years with 6 heroes and 6 PvE-only skills on my party!

It is nothing new!

Again the PUG is reduce to pve-only skills carrier wh0re! Must be really fun to play with a team that will kick you the second you don't have that pve-only skill.

It is simply a question of equalizing things - I'm fine with the removal of PvE-only skills. I'm not fine with being limited in skill selection because I have a hero instead of a human.

Whatever a single person can do with 7 heroes, 2 people have been doing that better for ages!

Whatever a single person can do with 7 heroes that can carry pve-only skills, 8 people have been doing that much much better for ages!

And why is vq something with 7 heroes with pve-only skills less fun than vq something with 7 people with pve-only skills?

The same reason people were looking for groups even though h/h could finish everything in a blink of an eye with the exception of elite areas that didn't allow henchmen.

Do you like to play with other people?

If yes, you will keep playing!

Why?

Because they chat back!

They can tell jokes!

They can be funny!

They have personality!

If a team is just run run, kill kill, that don't even have time to stop to pick drops, I'll just pick my heroes and won't notice a difference.

If you just want the PvE-only skills, well what is the difference if the guy is a human or AI?

I'm starting to think most people simply can't engage in a conversation with someone and be charming enough to seduce/allure that people to join their party if not for the pve-only skills carrot!

how is it limiting you? the PvE skills were only meant for humans as a reward/incentive for gaining ranks in certain titles. and i believe part of the thought process behind PvE skills only being for humans was to give players 1) a slight edge over heros 2) more incentive to play in parties rather than H/H

i'm not saying that their plan worked, but that seemed to be the purpose behind the idea

PvE only skills were introduced because the GVG/PvP demanded adjustments on skills that were rending many skills useless for PvE and Anet didn't want to split skills for PvP and PvE

Lol at those that need PvE-only skills to have a slight edge over heroes...

Well but now the second H on H/H has been dropped. Guess things changed.

Tell me how isn't my warrior hero limited compared to my warrior character because it can't choose whirlwind attack?

Is whirlwind attack any better than eremite's attack? So why can the heroes use one but not the other?

Why can my warrior hero get great dwarf weapon cast by my ele char, but my warrior character can't get great dwarf weapon cast by my ele hero?

My party can have +100 armor if I'm a paragon, but if I'm a monk it can't? But if I go over there and invite this paragon to come with me, it can because that human is so retarded the +100 armor just balances it?

Does it make much difference in the outcome of things?

No.

So why is it overpowered?

Sure not every pve-only skill is as tame, but in the hands of humans it is ok because they are retarded(?) and need a edge over heroes?

It is a lol argument in my opinion.

I want to see what happens if a panic mesmer with 7 heroes with echo, arcane echo, and EVAS go vanquishing. That would be amazing.

Compared to 1 Necromancer player with AP+MoP+EVAS, 1 ritualist player, 1 Panic mesmer hero , a couple of melee heroes (one of them earthshaker the other vow of strength) nothing special.

Generally the ritualist player is saying "stop killing them before I summoned the spirits".

Amazing in the sense that seeing summoned assassins running all through a panic'd mob would be hilarious. Quit being so serious, damn. "Amazing" doesn't mean "kill shit as fast as possible" all the time. Oh noes...someone doesn't run your speshul 7 hero build, QQ.

Compared to the infinite spirits, minions, allies, BuH bug, I dunno you can find anything amazing anymore.

If it's amazing to me, it's worth me mentioning it. Whether you agree or not, oh well. But don't rain on my birthday cake with your QQ'ing.

Wet cakes suck! I'll buy you a new one.

Wasn't trying to rain on you parade, just misunderstood your first comment.


They used to do some mesmer parties though. You might get your dream come true before that if they still do it.

Really?

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/c...t10472193.html

If you find the game so easy that it ruins your fun, then you do know that you dont have to run gimmicky builds and can play balanced builds instead right?

The game is as easy or challenging as you make it, feel free to try out my core skill only challenge if you dont like how easy it is.

I only wanted 7 heroes because I dont like henchmen with their fixed skillbars. I like to experiment and create my own builds.

The fact is a lot of pve only skills are OP esp at max rank. Everyone would be running YMLAD/FH spikes. If u srsly need them on heroes then your a crap player and should uninstall the game. Just take your 7 hero I WIN button.

Full hero teams already feel totally cheapass. That first vanquish was so easy i didn't come close to dieing once. If they make them any stronger from here, you might as well have an instant win button.

There is a great opportunity for Anet to offer pve Heroskills in their Cashshop.

/sarcasm

I'm worried with the current cycle of updates to the cashshop that these kinds of suggestions actually get some merit from Arena-net's side.

NO, NEVER!!! Clear enough?

Like everyone is running YMLAD/FH spikes in 8 humans party?

Ah, it is supper hard to press T, so human teams need them and they aren't crap players...

And discord spikes are so damn hard...

How can you be worried about that? Nothing that has been put in the cash shop for this game affects your in game ability, it is all visual stuff only.

The only thing that the mercenaries do is let you use your alts as hero skills. Thats really not that big a deal, you just have heroes that look like your other characters.

Multiple accounts solves this problem.

You get to keep all the loot, too.

No, it's a retarded idea.

First thing I'd do is give anyone of my heroes EVAS and I think that'd be gg.

People argued that 7 hero teams would be imbalanced.

Argued it quite rudely, I might add.

Now they're here and not imbalanced.

Is there really any weight to the complaints that are laid against heroes? Doesn't seem like it to me.

Its not imba, cause a full team of good players + pve skills its far more powered than heroes + pve skills.

I would be lying if I say I wouldnt like PVE skills on my heroes. But I can live with the fact my AI drones cant use it.

Lets look things this way: consider that PVE only skills are one of the bonus of playing with humies, OK?

After having read the posts, I have some remaining questions:

Alot of people tend to disagree that heroes should be able to run PvE skills as this would make them overpowered.

Ok, then I ask an anwser to this:

Isn't a 7 hero team already so overpowered, it really doesn't matter anymore?

For that matter:

So you guys admit PvE skills are really overpowered, and playing with heroes who have those skills would make the game too easy, but you see no problem with running those PvE skills on your own bars and/or other human players in the team?

This discussion is not about wether or not heroes with PvE skills are balanced. I, aswell as every other player agreeing or not knows it's not balanced. But we live in 2011, GW is most likely to have it's last year this year, and with the 7 hero team update PvE just went from a breeze to an even lighter breeze.

This discussion is about why not giving us the ability to have some fun in elite areas, and not being forced to look for hours on end for that last paragons with SY or PI or whatever.

The only natural consequence of introducing a 7-hero team (Which will once again push back pugging by alot) is to allow those heroes to PvE skills...

o_O i thought most people in GW were now non-hardcore players

i mean, i dont mind if they do it, but i dunno if i can make nice builds for heroes which involve pve only skills, as their AI is real bad

examples:
- my monk has power drain as energy management, yet she (tahlky) uses it for any interrupt, and after that she ran out of energy
- my xandra used xinrae's weapon on me while noone got damaged, and no fight was going on yet
- my razah barely uses painful bond, while he has spirits
- i had an ele hero(vekk) which used glowing gaze (gain energy when target foe burns) after he used deep freeze
- monk heroes dont use dwayna's kiss well either, they use it on anyone, even if they have other healing skills, while it has good effect on enchanted allies

this may be just the tip of the iceberg, as i left out the fact they sometimes just walk into the battle, like my gwen did today

another thing bothers me about heroes (and hench), and thats they barely listen to my target call (i wanted to make a suggestion or discussion thread about it before), as they randomly change their own targets

with all this (and probably much more flaws) i doubt heroes can use pve skills well, and micro managing 7 heroes.... is impossible... or its possible, but cant be done well

as for the idea, i dunno, let anet and all players get used to 7 hero teams now (and derv and pre sear etc.) and later on we can see what's best
as i think this is a lil too early after 7 hero teams update to actually see how they act (still dumb, but now in a better organized group)

also, i dont use any cookiecutter like discord, sabway,spiritspam and such, and please dont compare anything with discord, at least not game mechanics

ps. i made builds which work better than discord for me, even before the 7 hero update

quick edit: oh yea, as some say: if you think it'll be too much, then dont use it... so if you hate or dislike 7 heroes, use henchies instead.... but they wont, right?

No PVE skills for heroes. 7 heroes is already good enough.

considering i never used EOtN skills, and most skills i do use are core skills this "challenge" of yours i pretty much already do. i don't use the gimmick builds of the week/month/day/whatever specially since i dont care for c-space heros kill type gaming
besides, there really isn't much of a gimmick build for rangers- playing a bow ranger in and of itself is enough of a challenge

The difference is that 3 heroes was a seriously debilitating gimp on creativity, since you were literally locked in to half of your team's skills, whereas adding PvE skills to heroes doesn't induce creativity.

I wouldn't cry and throw a tantrum if they let heroes use a SINGLE PvE skill, or even better, their own special skill just to give each hero a truly unique feel. But anything more than that is not only overkill, but limits my options. In what scenario is YMLaD not a better option than some skill on a bar? That means that realistically my customization is limited to 7 skills.

I don't think so. In my own opinion, i -think- the game can be very easy even in hell mode, due to all the overpowered builds that now exist.

With that said, if i want to try to vanquish an area with 8 rangers with rangers only skills, it is a pretty hard task to do. With the pve-skills availible for my heroes, would it make the game a breeze? I don't know.

Sure, why not. Give heroes pve skills. But not now, it's still too early for that. After gw2.
Then at the very end of this game, when they put the last nail in the coffin they should give us this : http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/BAMPH!

Although i really wanted 7 heroes, i just realized how silly this game has become.

I can't really find a valid counter argument , thus i ll just /signed...
However , i do think , like i already told it many times , that heroes in PvP should be an other consequences on this update...( to use your argument ,i don't really like waiting an hour to find people )

Definitely not.

No, please.

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