I cant believe people are still on about 7 necros - this is not about 7 necros, 7 paras, 7 pets, or whatever.
It is about having party composition be fair. I want a 3rd rit hero in some areas. I want a 3rd mesmer hero in others. Knowing that I could have them, but only for real money? and my guildie I make builds with, he can't because he didnt buy it? its crap.
If people really and truly want only a reskin then they shouldn't mind having limits placed - 2 mesmer heroes max, merc or not. 2 rit heroes max, merc or not. The same team compositions available to everyone else.
Thats fair, and thats all that matters.
In-game advantage from the cash shop
Sir Cusfreak
drkn
Quote:
| What if people simply think a party of 7 ranger heroes would be incredibly fun to play? |
The merc heroes are more something along the line of the imp in pre-searing, though less useful and a micro-transaction in the store is required (you might got the imp with your very first copy of GW, not even being aware that you got a bonus). Just to note - i don't like the imp being in game either, probably mainly because i don't have it, but it does bring an unfair edge, even if it's PvE.
What it does, however, is opening door for useable items in the store for GW2. Transmutation stones? Fine. Costumes? Alright. But if i ever see anything useful in GW2 store, even a scroll giving 20% more xp for 5 minutes, i'll be more than disappointed. That's, imo, the real reason why the playerbase is that much worried and doesn't like the merc heroes.
Mordakai
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Sir Cusfreak
I cant believe people are still on about 7 necros - this is not about 7 necros, 7 paras, 7 pets, or whatever.
It is about having party composition be fair. I want a 3rd rit in some areas. I want a 3rd mesmer in others. Knowing that I could have them, but only for real money? and my guildie I make builds with, he can't because he didnt buy it? its crap.] |
Roll one as your main.
It's free.
Seriously guys, this is NOT a big deal. (although I do think Mercs are overpriced...)
Plus: I expect more heroes to be added in another update, don't you?
redscull
Quote:
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Originally Posted by shinta_himura
If you don't make this purchase, your gameplay is now limited until you do.
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Everyone has the same option to party with other people of any profession. Money is just a substitue for guild mates; it confers absolutely no special bonus. The best teams will still be mostly real people because they can take advantage of all skill builds (hero AI still lacks on many abilities) and coordinate better in most situations.
Ghull Ka
The "ingame advantage" that merc heroes could potentially provide me is NOT worth the real-life cost.
The "ingame advantage" that merc heroes could potentially provde me is only very small compared to a regular non-merc 7-hero party.
So: lol @ "ingame advantage for cash". I disagree.
Also: My igneous summoning stone makes me a FEARSOME DEATHSTORM in pre-searing. Perhaps you should be angry at that "ingame advantage for cash" also, right? Fear my fire imp, suckers!!!!!
FEAR IT!!!
The "ingame advantage" that merc heroes could potentially provde me is only very small compared to a regular non-merc 7-hero party.
So: lol @ "ingame advantage for cash". I disagree.
Also: My igneous summoning stone makes me a FEARSOME DEATHSTORM in pre-searing. Perhaps you should be angry at that "ingame advantage for cash" also, right? Fear my fire imp, suckers!!!!!
FEAR IT!!!
Another Felldspar
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Originally Posted by Skyy High
How many times do I have to say this....people were already doing this by purchasing a second account and running with 6 heroes. And after thinking it over for a day, that still might be the better option if you want to run full discordway, unless you plan on wasting 4 of your character slots on necros.
Also, it's f***ing PvE, and GW2 is coming. Who cares anymore? |
Cash shop advantage is not okay with me. If this studio is going to show me that they don't mind offering products for sale that effect the equity of the game then it's a problem. Not just for this particular game, but for everything that studio produces, now and forever.
This needs to be addressed. Immediately.
rb.widow
The game is nearly 6 years old, most MMO's dont last this long, so they put an update in place that allows those who wish to pay for it, the ability to run 8 of the same class, who cares, everywhere in the game can be done with H/H in HM as it stands, so all this steam rolling talk is nonsense, i think those with there back up and pissed about this update are just pissed because you have to pay for it, and its not free.
Dont like the update, dont pay for it, and continue to play the game the way you always have, end of problem.
Good Job to Anet for still updating the game 6 years after its first release.
Dont like the update, dont pay for it, and continue to play the game the way you always have, end of problem.
Good Job to Anet for still updating the game 6 years after its first release.
Xiaquin
Bringing along one (good) human player with (good) heroes is still better than soloing with seven AI. This is a non-issue.
redscull
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Originally Posted by dancing gnome
Expansions are completely different from microtransaction (mico in content, not in price).Expansions are accepted for game design because they do literally that - they expand the content of the game and the world. There are many reasons why microtransactions are purchased by significantly less people than expansions are.
Mercenaries don't expand the game world, they expand the gameplay options exclusively for those who paid for them. That is wrong. |
Each campaign, the expansion, character slots, inventory slots, skill unlocks, and now mercs all confer an advantage in the game over players who didn't purchase. The campaigns and the expansion are the biggest offenders because they open up access to skills, hero-access, HOM, etc. you can't otherwise get. The rest only confer a time-saving advantage, not a unique perk. Everyone can eventually unlock all the skills in their campaign(s), play with others for profession mixing, sell loot to free up inv slots, etc. Only the costumes are truly cosmetic.
It seems like the beef with this has to be price. Cause really, no other argument against mercs is logical. It is an advantage, but no more so than other purchaseable content (less so than campaigns), and any advantage it offers can be reproduced by time and guild mates. Personally, I think the price is fine. But because the campaigns are such a bargain, I guess people feel entitled.
Verene
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Originally Posted by Mordakai
You want 3 Rits and Mesmers so badly?
Roll one as your main. It's free. Seriously guys, this is NOT a big deal. (although I do think Mercs are overpriced...) Plus: I expect more heroes to be added in another update, don't you? |
Jerec The Raven
I agree that the AI really limits the ability for merc heroes to be abused. Just because you can have more of one prof does not make up for the fact that if you park your heroes some where and someone lands an AOE on them, they are all going to die.
jazilla
The only thing I find to be an unfair advantage with the Mercs is that you can get level 20 heroes with Mercs at level 2 if you create your characters in NF. ANet said that they would never offer a playing advantage over the store, and that is exactly what this is. They either need to make the Fire Imp summoning Stone always level 20 or they need to change the level that players have access to mercs with. Level 20 heroes at level 2 is the very definition of unfair advantage.
I don't mind letting people create and delete PvP characters to make an army of whatever they want as you can go out with an all human team comprised of whatever. Also, Mercs can't use PvE only skills so they are automatically less powerful than what a team can be. If they had PVE only skill access, then I would be singing a different tune.
I don't mind letting people create and delete PvP characters to make an army of whatever they want as you can go out with an all human team comprised of whatever. Also, Mercs can't use PvE only skills so they are automatically less powerful than what a team can be. If they had PVE only skill access, then I would be singing a different tune.
Mordakai
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Originally Posted by jazilla
The only thing I find to be an unfair advantage with the Mercs is that you can get level 20 heroes with Mercs at level 2 if you create your characters in NF. ANet said that they would never offer a playing advantage over the store, and that is exactly what this is. They either need to make the Fire Imp summoning Stone always level 20 or they need to change the level that players have access to mercs with. Level 20 heroes at level 2 is the very definition of unfair advantage.
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True, you actually had to go somewhere do get it...
Question: How do heroes effect your XP gain? Are you actually hurting yourself by bringing along level 20 heroes?
redscull
Quote:
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Originally Posted by jazilla
The only thing I find to be an unfair advantage with the Mercs is that you can get level 20 heroes with Mercs at level 2..
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And it's exclusive to NF characters, I'm assuming. I know my lowbie prophecies character still can't add mercs to her roster, presumably since she can't add other heroes yet either.
Ghull Ka
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Originally Posted by Another Felldspar
Actually, I care. I care a great deal. And the fact that GW2 is coming makes me care an incredible amount more. And believing that Linsey is hard at work on a new and unannounced game makes me care even that much more.
Cash shop advantage is not okay with me. If this studio is going to show me that they don't mind offering products for sale that effect the equity of the game then it's a problem. Not just for this particular game, but for everything that studio produces, now and forever. This needs to be addressed. Immediately. |
For I have purchased these ingame benefits for real life money.
These items make it much easier for me to get LDoA than people who don't have them.
Skyy High
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Originally Posted by dancing gnome
Why does it have to be easier to be wrong?
What if people simply think a party of 7 ranger heroes would be incredibly fun to play? What if someone thinks they would really enjoy trying out a 7 hero monk party throwing smites all over the place? What about 7 Searing Flames eles? I can't do these things even if I think they would be incredibly fun to do but other people can because they spent more money than me. Why are those people unable to access those gameplay features not cosmetic feature and people who paid money for more heroes are able to do so? |
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Another Felldspar
Actually, I care. I care a great deal. And the fact that GW2 is coming makes me care an incredible amount more. And believing that Linsey is hard at work on a new and unannounced game makes me care even that much more.
Cash shop advantage is not okay with me. If this studio is going to show me that they don't mind offering products for sale that effect the equity of the game then it's a problem. Not just for this particular game, but for everything that studio produces, now and forever. This needs to be addressed. Immediately. |
Chocolate_Prayers
Quote:
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Originally Posted by DeanBB
How is one person's playing with merc's giving them an advantage over someone who is not in an instanced, non-competitive environment? We're not talking PvP here. Is it just that they can clear a zone 1.3 minutes faster? Please explain.
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Other people having these heroes would not really affect anyone else in any way unless you party with said people, which in reality would not give you a disadvantage since you should be working together.
The main motivator for these threads seems to be jealousy. (or the ol' "I wan't what she's having, minus the price tag" effect)
If you encountered many people running 2 accounts with full gimmick heroes I'm sure people would complain too..
All in all, you have access to 7 heroes, that should suffice for any player tbh, things were easy enough even before the 7 hero update.
In the end, people who pay for the service are allowed to use it. People who do not pay for it have no right to be entitled to the same services.
For example, say you joined an exclusive club, with a membership fee of $100. This club would allow you free access to certain services.
Now, assume another person asking for the same free services without paying the membership fee "just because"...
Seems a bit silly, right?
Also, as Ghull Ka mentioned, the collectors weapons for pre-sear LDoA chars back before the edit.. nobody really complained as much or as heatedly about those, right? And people had to pay extra to receive that service for their account... RIGHT?
Kunder
ITT: A bunch of players who think Discord > all and can't imagine a build outside of N/x
The only thing I want is a 3rd rit hero, and we can be pretty sure thats coming with WoC. 3rd Mesmer would be nice but I can't see myself really desiring 3 at once. Maybe multiple keystone builds or something I suppose.
While I do not intend to purchase Mercs, I think its good that Anet found a way to give players something actually meaningful to pay for without really any gameplay advantage. Call me when they unlock r15 faction titles and r12 EotN titles for players who pay.
The only thing I want is a 3rd rit hero, and we can be pretty sure thats coming with WoC. 3rd Mesmer would be nice but I can't see myself really desiring 3 at once. Maybe multiple keystone builds or something I suppose.
While I do not intend to purchase Mercs, I think its good that Anet found a way to give players something actually meaningful to pay for without really any gameplay advantage. Call me when they unlock r15 faction titles and r12 EotN titles for players who pay.
Iuris
I'll agree that the mercenary heroes are an advantage, but I'd say it's a minor one and perfectly comparable to that offered by extra storage panels (since you can hold on to more trade worthy items for longer) and certainly much less than an extra campaign offers in new skills.
So, not worried at all.
So, not worried at all.
Lasai
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Originally Posted by siadina
I will post here what I said in-game last night.
I don't care. I get to run around killing stuff with all my babies *squeee!* In-game advantage or not, I got the full set. And not to be super leetz, but to have a chance to have my toons, which I have put my all into, be my heroes! Not a gimpy looking old man monk, but my beautiful Akina! Not the spiked out sin, but my steam-punk Namine! And Sia joining them all in pinkalicous glory, complete with furrroucious ears! I am not planning on rolling 8 necros, that is just silly. But I have pimped out my houris, and now I have the most beautiful set of heroes ever! |
I guess this level of happy is game destruction to some.
TheGizzy
Maybe I'm clueless, but I'm just not seeing what advantage these mercs are going to give anyone. A third rit? Hell, I can turn one of my rangers into a perfectly suitable SoS rit. For that matter, as an ele, I was able to turn MYSELF into an SoS rit and I get to use summon spirits which isn't available to H/M/H.
Another mesmer? 'meh. I can dual-class a monk or ele into a mesmer... the whole "fast casting" isn't that big of a deal on any of the builds I'd run on a third mesmer anyway.
More necros? Seriously? Yuck. Besides, I use a build on Razah that makes him an even better bomber than any of my N/any are... and it's rare I have to yank Death Nova away from him like I do on the necros (though that did finally happen last night LOL).
I've no interest in the merc packs... and I'm just not the type to roll & play multiple toons anyway. I made a rit that I was going to use for Survivor, but now that that title has changed, she'll be another mule and a place for ANet to give me birthday prezzies.
In all the complaints about the "advantage" these mercs are giving people, I'm just not seeing anyone clearly state what those advantages are. PvE, which is the only place you can use mercs, is not a competitive instanced environment. So why should I care that some other player is able to use more of some profession than I can? I'm not in competition with them... there aren't finite resources in-game... I can still earn all the gold, or ectos, or whatever I want with what I already have. I can't do a speed clear to save my life... should they be nerfed because I can't do them and so other people have an advantage over me? I could learn, right? Just as I COULD pay for the merc packs.
I simply choose not to.
Another mesmer? 'meh. I can dual-class a monk or ele into a mesmer... the whole "fast casting" isn't that big of a deal on any of the builds I'd run on a third mesmer anyway.
More necros? Seriously? Yuck. Besides, I use a build on Razah that makes him an even better bomber than any of my N/any are... and it's rare I have to yank Death Nova away from him like I do on the necros (though that did finally happen last night LOL).
I've no interest in the merc packs... and I'm just not the type to roll & play multiple toons anyway. I made a rit that I was going to use for Survivor, but now that that title has changed, she'll be another mule and a place for ANet to give me birthday prezzies.
In all the complaints about the "advantage" these mercs are giving people, I'm just not seeing anyone clearly state what those advantages are. PvE, which is the only place you can use mercs, is not a competitive instanced environment. So why should I care that some other player is able to use more of some profession than I can? I'm not in competition with them... there aren't finite resources in-game... I can still earn all the gold, or ectos, or whatever I want with what I already have. I can't do a speed clear to save my life... should they be nerfed because I can't do them and so other people have an advantage over me? I could learn, right? Just as I COULD pay for the merc packs.
I simply choose not to.
Deakon
I think the same thing can be said about any of the expansions since Prophecies. Folks who purchased Factions had an advantage over those who did not. Nightfall and EotN is the same thing. People who spent money on the expansions gained skills, heroes, etc. etc. Which gives them an advantage over those who did not. With each expansion there were options for builds (team or solo) as well as new content. I look at this as a limited content expansion but a greater build option expansion (which was free!). The Mercenaries may give the player an advantage on options but seriously... out of the nth million options already available, is it really going to be that noticeable?
Winterclaw
The advantage is you can fully customize your team (for $45 bucks).
BTW, someone asked about having 8 slots. I thought about it for a minute and realized you need an 8th because you've got multiple PCs and you might not want to use the mercenary version of your current PC.
BTW, someone asked about having 8 slots. I thought about it for a minute and realized you need an 8th because you've got multiple PCs and you might not want to use the mercenary version of your current PC.
Lasai
TBH I think most of this frothing at the mouth isn't about an actual advantage at all, but merely attempting to lever ANET into providing something really cool, free.
GranDeWun
'Advantage' + PVE = nonsense. It's not a competitive situation.
TheGizzy
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Winterclaw
The advantage is you can fully customize your team (for $45 bucks).
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Winterclaw
1. They can do it faster/easier if the right build is found.
2. Depends on how you define playing against someone.
3. Depends on the competition in question
4. Depends on the build, but I'd say time and as someone else suggested, not needing to use cons.
5. Mat prices?
6. ???
7. I win.
2. Depends on how you define playing against someone.
3. Depends on the competition in question
4. Depends on the build, but I'd say time and as someone else suggested, not needing to use cons.
5. Mat prices?
6. ???
7. I win.
Chocolate_Prayers
Quote:
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Originally Posted by TheGizzy
What effect does someone else being able to fully customize their team have on you and on your gameplay? Are you playing against them? Competing for something that you'll now not be able to acquire because they have mercs? What's the specific advantage? What is the impact on you and your gameplay?
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Granted, having smexy looking mercenary versions of henchmen really does add that extra bling factor that makes them so much more advantageous to have.
Lasai
Quote:
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Originally Posted by TheGizzy
What effect does someone else being able to fully customize their team have on you and on your gameplay? Are you playing against them? Competing for something that you'll now not be able to acquire because they have mercs? What's the specific advantage? What is the impact on you and your gameplay?
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It has been one day.
And on another note, the sheer petty behavior of the GW Demographic baffles me. GW is the best value in gaming, to me, right now. I am amazed still by what they do, the quality of the items offered, and that content updates like GW beyond are free. Beyond content far exceeds that of the Bonus Mission Pack and does not cost a dime.
I played SOE games for oh.. 6 years. I've been conned by professionals. ANET are saints compared to Smedley and SOE. They really don't deserve the abuse being hurled around.
TheGizzy
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Originally Posted by Winterclaw
1. They can do it faster/easier if the right build is found.
2. Depends on how you define playing against someone. 3. Depends on the competition in question 4. Depends on the build, but I'd say time and as someone else suggested, not needing to use cons. 5. Mat prices? 6. ??? 7. I win. |
2. I guess so. But last time I checked, there wasn't anywhere in PvE that I had to play against someone else in order to progress. If you know of one, please share.
3. Be specific - what competition?
4. Ok, time... and what advantage does their doing it faster gain them over you, specifically? They might have one more ecto than you for 10 minutes? As for cons... I don't know, I've never done an area in the game where I had to use cons to complete it. So I'm not really seeing that.
5. Why on earth are you wasting money on buying mats? Only time I've ever bought mats was to get spiritwood for my incubator because I was too lazy to farm it. On the other hand, I've made a boodle of money selling feathers to other people who are in turn too lazy to farm them... and god knows they're probably the easiest farm in game, so I've never really understood that. LOL
6.
7. Win what? Is this another of your imaginary competitions? LOL
Lasai
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Winterclaw
1. They can do it faster/easier if the right build is found.
2. Depends on how you define playing against someone. 3. Depends on the competition in question 4. Depends on the build, but I'd say time and as someone else suggested, not needing to use cons. 5. Mat prices? 6. ??? 7. I win. |
2. I got kicked out of an explorable at 87% VQ because a full necro team somewhere won the race I didn't know I was in.
3. A full necro team hacked my acct and got me banned.
4. The existence of full necro teams has caused the npcs to point and laugh at me as I enter explorables.. causing me untold mental anguish.
5. Depends. discrete, absorbent, perfect for long hours of trying to be as good as full necro teams.
6. Profit.
Do I get a participation ribbon at least?
Grj
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Originally Posted by TheGizzy
In all the complaints about the "advantage" these mercs are giving people, I'm just not seeing anyone clearly state what those advantages are. PvE, which is the only place you can use mercs, is not a competitive instanced environment. So why should I care that some other player is able to use more of some profession than I can? I'm not in competition with them... there aren't finite resources in-game... I can still earn all the gold, or ectos, or whatever I want with what I already have. I can't do a speed clear to save my life... should they be nerfed because I can't do them and so other people have an advantage over me? I could learn, right? Just as I COULD pay for the merc packs.
I simply choose not to. |
TheGizzy
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Chocolate_Prayers
Apparently everybody is unknowingly competing for the biggest E-Peen on Guild Wars.
Granted, having smexy looking mercenary versions of henchmen really does add that extra bling factor that makes them so much more advantageous to have. |
Maybe it could be used as a distraction tool! Confuse the foes!
TheGizzy
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Grj
If people share this view or simillar and this is the case why is it then that this forum filled with nerf 'insert skill here' and crying for balance threads if people don't care what builds others run and don't care about players in their own instance?
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Personally, I've never really understood why people care how someone else plays in a non-competitive gaming environment. If this were WoW, I could see it - but thank all the gods it's not, so I don't get it.
My guess is that those "nerf the skill" threads are probably populated by the same people complaining over the merc packs, but I don't know - just not something I care enough about to pay attention to.
Imaginary advantage is imaginary.
Lasai
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Grj
If people share this view or simillar and this is the case why is it then that this forum filled with nerf 'insert skill here' and crying for balance threads if people don't care what builds others run and don't care about players in their own instance?
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Chocolate_Prayers
Quote:
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Originally Posted by TheGizzy
*chuckling* My game buddy Missy bought the merc pack last night and converted several of her toons into mercs. We went to do the Gates in Kryta mission with my hubby since we all still had it as an uncompleted ZM & Missy brought along one of her new mercs. That toon is one she's used frequently when we play together in addition to her main (the one she was actually playing last night). We were laughing over how odd it was to see "her" playing alongside "her" and to see "her" name in the party list alongside "her" other name.
Maybe it could be used as a distraction tool! Confuse the foes! |
Real creepy when all of a sudden there are 7 versions of the same person partying with you.
Must be what everyone here is so eager to have after all.
TheGizzy
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Originally Posted by TheGizzy
Imaginary advantage is imaginary.
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If "faster" is a tangible benefit, then why aren't people screaming over the skill packs? Because they certainly allow a person to do things "faster" than those without. Being able to immediately set up a gimmick build on yourself/your heroes, without effort (beyond perhaps earning enough money for skill tomes/trainers for your actual toon - but with gimmicked heroes, you could run a blank bar yourself and still progress) should fall into the same category, yes? Yet I see plenty of those complaining about the merc packs saying that skill packs are fine.
What is the tangible game reward those with merc packs will receive that those without them cannot? I am genuinely wanting to know.
lemming
Is everyone seriously denying that the ability to have more than the allotted number of heroes for any one class in a party an advantage? Even if it seems trivial right now, what makes you think it's not an advantage?
Yes.
Skill packs can be replicated with, you know, actually having skills unlocked. It's faster to get started that way, but it's not an exclusive effect to those who paid for it.
Maybe it's the case that with less people able to test builds, we'll never see anything uniquely degenerate involving more than three heroes of one class, but do you honestly believe that will hold in the long run?
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Originally Posted by bhavv
If I can clear all of the UW except for 4H (regarded to be the hardest quest in the whole game) with my 2 accounts, 6 heroes and a rage quit on my other character, does it really matter if I'm down a man?
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by TheGizzy
If "faster" is a tangible benefit, then why aren't people screaming over the skill packs? Because they certainly allow a person to do things "faster" than those without.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Lupu
Until someone comes up with an "outside the box" AWESOME new herobuild that will drop the ecto prices or something similar because it's so good and being overly used by everyone with merch heros, ...I don't think they will have an advantage.
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Lortext
The biggest in-game advantage I got from the store was buying Eye of the North.
TheGizzy
Quote:
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Originally Posted by lemming
Skill packs can be replicated with, you know, actually having skills unlocked. It's faster to get started that way, but it's not an exclusive effect to those who paid for it.
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So if the argument is that the end effect cannot be duplicated without spending money... then the argument is a fail.
It takes additional effort to cap a skill or unlock it via faction from that which is required to obtain it via a skill pack - but the skill is obtainable either way. It takes additional effort to form an 8-custom profession party by partying up with an additional player(s) - but it is still obtainable either way.