Hello everyone ,
So after last update i tried during many hours different builds to beat that area.
However , due to bad heroes IA , but mainly to difficulty , i noticed it was almost undoable even in NM....( well it is , but it takes way too long)....
So then , i decided to use conset and i saw : whole map luring, noone dying. Random builds suddenly killing . I also noticed ( i don't know if it's bug ) that some mobs aren't casting skills when i have conset on , especially Anur Ki ( aka healers ) ....
To make a link with current team builds , DwG is really not very hard... I just tried again and people can't know how hard the area is by just rushing in pack of mobs, mashing 121212 ...
This isn't meant to be a QQ thread like " waaa i die there it's impossible nerf plz " ( people were still playing with random teams before ) , but more likely thoughts about consets in that place... Do you think they are bringing a too big advantage ?
My suggestion would be to make some penality when bonus items are used , or restrictions. Having at best 2 bonus on you max , not being allowed to use bonus items consecutively , etc.....
What do you guys think ??
DoA difficulty - Consets
Missing HB
Bright Star Shine
Consets are a core aspect of gameplay now. You can't do it without them. Also, if you pop shittons of extra personals, you payed for em, so they shouldn't be restricted. They already nerfed the stacking rock candies.
I speak as a very experienced DoA player, and we don't run that DwG crap, but actual SC, and I can honestly say, if no one pops personals, you add at least 5 minutes to your run, and even more if a screwup gets in the way. Without actual consets the runs would get very difficult and take at least 50% longer.
No, consets as they are are a bit OP'ed, but they have become so part of the game that they should stay so too. If you insist on wanting to prove your point by doing DoA FR HM without cons, go ahead, but be prepared to waste a lot of time.
I speak as a very experienced DoA player, and we don't run that DwG crap, but actual SC, and I can honestly say, if no one pops personals, you add at least 5 minutes to your run, and even more if a screwup gets in the way. Without actual consets the runs would get very difficult and take at least 50% longer.
No, consets as they are are a bit OP'ed, but they have become so part of the game that they should stay so too. If you insist on wanting to prove your point by doing DoA FR HM without cons, go ahead, but be prepared to waste a lot of time.
Lord Dagon
/notsigned
consets are there for people who want them to make things a bit easier. i think you're over stating that random crap suddenly becoems good with cons. you still ahve to have semi decent stuff for cons to work. all they do its add armor and reduce casting/cool down times. so if your original stuff isnt any good, your speed up crap still shouldnt be any good.
and its really easy to do stuff without cons(i havent poped any cons since i tried UW with my guild) so its not a neccisity. Make better stuff or use cons, its really that easy
consets are there for people who want them to make things a bit easier. i think you're over stating that random crap suddenly becoems good with cons. you still ahve to have semi decent stuff for cons to work. all they do its add armor and reduce casting/cool down times. so if your original stuff isnt any good, your speed up crap still shouldnt be any good.
and its really easy to do stuff without cons(i havent poped any cons since i tried UW with my guild) so its not a neccisity. Make better stuff or use cons, its really that easy
Essence Snow
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Originally Posted by Bright Star Shine
Consets are a core aspect of gameplay now. You can't do it without them. Also, if you pop shittons of extra personals, you payed for em, so they shouldn't be restricted. They already nerfed the stacking rock candies.
I speak as a very experienced DoA player, and we don't run that DwG crap, but actual SC, and I can honestly say, if no one pops personals, you add at least 5 minutes to your run, and even more if a screwup gets in the way. Without actual consets the runs would get very difficult and take at least 50% longer. No, consets as they are are a bit OP'ed, but they have become so part of the game that they should stay so too. If you insist on wanting to prove your point by doing DoA FR HM without cons, go ahead, but be prepared to waste a lot of time. |
FoxBat
IMO consets "should" exist only for weak players to overpay to get through content they otherwise couldn't, such as your case. Unfortunately it turns out that consets are the most efficient way to clear elite content, and their cost is more than recompensed by the reduced time to get rewards. Furthermore their market cost is basically dictated by that context, if consets became too expensive for speed clears, demand would drop off a cliff, lowering price again. Basically unless they cost ecto or something just as rare to craft, there's no way to fix the cost dynamic.
If you wanted to realistically nerf cons overall, what they need is some control on their crazy stacking, so that most overwrote each other instead of adding together.
If you wanted to realistically nerf cons overall, what they need is some control on their crazy stacking, so that most overwrote each other instead of adding together.
Saru The Boss
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Originally Posted by Bright Star Shine
Consets are a core aspect of gameplay now. You can't do it without them. Also, if you pop shittons of extra personals, you payed for em, so they shouldn't be restricted. They already nerfed the stacking rock candies.
... |
In any case,
/notsigned.
drkn
I've always been ambivalent towards cons, consets especially. I never used them on my own unless i got some from quests and i just wanted to use them up to free some inventory space. But it's hard to overlook their power and what they do with PvE.
The idea of crafting cons out of common materials was nice. On the paper. I think that the middle ground to adjusting cons would be to switch cons crafter into cons trader. Since consets couldn't be crafted anymore, the trader's prices would be fixed. Something like 50k for the entire conset - or even more.
What would it do? First off, it'd probably be the best gold sink possible right now. Sure, there would be several big QQ threads about it, but after a week or two, people running SCs would get used to getting less profit - and that's another upside, as hardcore SCers wouldn't stack hundreds of plat and ecto that fast, being able to buy nearly anything, while typical player (even playing a lot, but not SCing) can hardly afford filling one of his monuments. It might also make some people try playing without cons, as they're too expensive for them now on.
The prices would have to be adjusted, but they'd need to be insanely high, much higher than the current market value of cons. They might be added as random drops from dungeons' end-chests or even locked chests in HM - or even from any HM mob - with very small chance, like rubies or less.
The cons would still be available and you still would be able to faceroll elite areas, but at a higher cost, with the major upside of being a gold sink rather than p2p transaction.
The idea of crafting cons out of common materials was nice. On the paper. I think that the middle ground to adjusting cons would be to switch cons crafter into cons trader. Since consets couldn't be crafted anymore, the trader's prices would be fixed. Something like 50k for the entire conset - or even more.
What would it do? First off, it'd probably be the best gold sink possible right now. Sure, there would be several big QQ threads about it, but after a week or two, people running SCs would get used to getting less profit - and that's another upside, as hardcore SCers wouldn't stack hundreds of plat and ecto that fast, being able to buy nearly anything, while typical player (even playing a lot, but not SCing) can hardly afford filling one of his monuments. It might also make some people try playing without cons, as they're too expensive for them now on.
The prices would have to be adjusted, but they'd need to be insanely high, much higher than the current market value of cons. They might be added as random drops from dungeons' end-chests or even locked chests in HM - or even from any HM mob - with very small chance, like rubies or less.
The cons would still be available and you still would be able to faceroll elite areas, but at a higher cost, with the major upside of being a gold sink rather than p2p transaction.
yum
Yea. 100k a set is reasonable. Make them require ectos or shards to craft.
drkn
And gemstones. Don't forget about gemstones.
Bright Star Shine
Lol, are you guys serious? What benefit would it have? Some retard people are already overpricing at 10k/ea while you can craft them at the trader for 8,2k/ea. Some even more retarded people are even buying them.
But my point, only slowing down people to stockpile money isn't gonna stop them to stockpile money. You're only gonna piss em off. And us, the hardcore SC'ers who can make 75-80k per 45min DoA run wouldn't mind that much, although some would. But the noobies who're trying to get to do UWSC and FoWSC would be insta bankrupt. And they could never learn it anymore. A lot of people would leave the game etc etc.. So the only people you're punishing with this, is the small player who is trying to learn something. Sounds kind of fail to me.
But my point, only slowing down people to stockpile money isn't gonna stop them to stockpile money. You're only gonna piss em off. And us, the hardcore SC'ers who can make 75-80k per 45min DoA run wouldn't mind that much, although some would. But the noobies who're trying to get to do UWSC and FoWSC would be insta bankrupt. And they could never learn it anymore. A lot of people would leave the game etc etc.. So the only people you're punishing with this, is the small player who is trying to learn something. Sounds kind of fail to me.
Coast
fine, then we just sell our braces for 80ectos again
/signed
/signed
Bright Star Shine
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Originally Posted by Coast
fine, then we just sell our braces for 80ectos again
/signed |
Hobbs
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Originally Posted by Bright Star Shine
Lol, are you guys serious? What benefit would it have? Some retard people are already overpricing at 10k/ea while you can craft them at the trader for 8,2k/ea.
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Bright Star Shine
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Originally Posted by Hobbs
Making an easy sell at almost a 25% markup is retarded? Sounds like genius to me.
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yum
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Originally Posted by Bright Star Shine
Lol, are you guys serious? What benefit would it have? Some retard people are already overpricing at 10k/ea while you can craft them at the trader for 8,2k/ea. Some even more retarded people are even buying them.
But my point, only slowing down people to stockpile money isn't gonna stop them to stockpile money. You're only gonna piss em off. And us, the hardcore SC'ers who can make 75-80k per 45min DoA run wouldn't mind that much, although some would. But the noobies who're trying to get to do UWSC and FoWSC would be insta bankrupt. And they could never learn it anymore. A lot of people would leave the game etc etc.. So the only people you're punishing with this, is the small player who is trying to learn something. Sounds kind of fail to me. |
The new one would only decrease loot by 50%. The existing only would decrease loots by 95%, including chests.
drkn
Oh my, this cap fits you sooo, so well.
Kunder
Make it so you can only have 1 party-wide consumable in effect at a time. Thats more then enough of a 'helper' without basically winning the game for you.
Balistic Pve
/not signed
This would mean a waste to people who bought a ton of personal cons to improve their run.
This would mean a waste to people who bought a ton of personal cons to improve their run.
chris12xu
lol why does every thread that deals with anything remotely related to speed clears turn into just a bunch of idiots trolling people who SC
and news flash cons just arnt used for speedclears. lots of people use them for general game play
really cant say it much better then that either
making consets 50K a piece would just ruin uwsc and fowsc and the areas would become dead lowering the number of players actually playing together becuase lets face it even more so now with 7 heros people are not playing together at all if you wanna play with pugs at all you have to do the zquests or seedclears thats about it so have fun killing pretty much the only pug scene left in the game lol
and news flash cons just arnt used for speedclears. lots of people use them for general game play
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| But my point, only slowing down people to stockpile money isn't gonna stop them to stockpile money. You're only gonna piss em off. And us, the hardcore SC'ers who can make 75-80k per 45min DoA run wouldn't mind that much, although some would. But the noobies who're trying to get to do UWSC and FoWSC would be insta bankrupt. And they could never learn it anymore. A lot of people would leave the game etc etc.. So the only people you're punishing with this, is the small player who is trying to learn something. Sounds kind of fail to me. |
making consets 50K a piece would just ruin uwsc and fowsc and the areas would become dead lowering the number of players actually playing together becuase lets face it even more so now with 7 heros people are not playing together at all if you wanna play with pugs at all you have to do the zquests or seedclears thats about it so have fun killing pretty much the only pug scene left in the game lol
Missing HB
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Originally Posted by chris12xu
lol why does every thread that deals with anything remotely related to speed clears turn into just a bunch of idiots trolling people who SC
and news flash cons just arnt used for speedclears. lots of people use them for general game play really cant say it much better then that either making consets 50K a piece would just ruin uwsc and fowsc and the areas would become dead lowering the number of players actually playing together becuase lets face it even more so now with 7 heros people are not playing together at all if you wanna play with pugs at all you have to do the zquests or seedclears thats about it so have fun killing pretty much the only pug scene left in the game lol |
You know, i agree with all. I did play SC , so i know people don't wanna lose their pass time( sorry to say this , but many arguments here look like " no plz i want my ambrances so no nerf " )
But , really , you should try to just play some hours DoA with full heroes and no conset... you will realize the huge difference and how joke it is with teams such as DwG + bonus items....
drkn
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| ( sorry to say this , but many arguments here look like " no plz i want my ambrances so no nerf " ) |
It's not that much about people getting more money through SCs. It's about the vast difference between playing high-end areas with cons and without. The SCers above probably forgot how it was to play UW/DoA without any consumables, even personal ones, or they never even really attempted it. Even with gimmicky builds, it's MUCH harder without cons. There's a big void in terms of difficulty.
And that's plainly silly.
Craft/buy a few items, pop them and turn the god mode on. If it was a single player game, like Fallout or Dragon Age, i wouldn't mind - i wouldn't use consumables and if you did, it wouldn't bother me at all. But we play an MMO game - sure, it's unique in terms of playstyle, with zoning, low level cap, and stuff. Still, your playstyle affects me - and everyone around - in a way.
Sure - everyone can buy a conset. And change the elite, high-end area into a walk in a park. The whole point is - it shouldn't be possible. It's just a bad move from ANet to make UW/FoW/DoA doable in ~30 min... not to mention pre-Dhuum 7 min UW. And it should be fixed.
The best way would be to completely get rid of cons, at least consets and the most overpowered personal ones, like rock candies. But it seems ANet likes adding more stuff that makes gamers' lives easier. So at least limit them.
Making them more expensive is one option. Another is to limit how many cons, both personal and party-wide, one can have at a time. Since consumables are PvE-only, they should be treated as PvE-only skills, allowing only three of them active on a player at any given time. If he already had three, the oldest one gets replaced with the newly popped or the newest one has no effect.
Bright Star Shine
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Originally Posted by drkn
Well, that's enough said.
It's not that much about people getting more money through SCs. It's about the vast difference between playing high-end areas with cons and without. The SCers above probably forgot how it was to play UW/DoA without any consumables, even personal ones, or they never even really attempted it. Even with gimmicky builds, it's MUCH harder without cons. There's a big void in terms of difficulty. And that's plainly silly. Craft/buy a few items, pop them and turn the god mode on. If it was a single player game, like Fallout or Dragon Age, i wouldn't mind - i wouldn't use consumables and if you did, it wouldn't bother me at all. But we play an MMO game - sure, it's unique in terms of playstyle, with zoning, low level cap, and stuff. Still, your playstyle affects me - and everyone around - in a way. Sure - everyone can buy a conset. And change the elite, high-end area into a walk in a park. The whole point is - it shouldn't be possible. It's just a bad move from ANet to make UW/FoW/DoA doable in ~30 min... not to mention pre-Dhuum 7 min UW. And it should be fixed. The best way would be to completely get rid of cons, at least consets and the most overpowered personal ones, like rock candies. But it seems ANet likes adding more stuff that makes gamers' lives easier. So at least limit them. Making them more expensive is one option. Another is to limit how many cons, both personal and party-wide, one can have at a time. Since consumables are PvE-only, they should be treated as PvE-only skills, allowing only three of them active on a player at any given time. If he already had three, the oldest one gets replaced with the newly popped or the newest one has no effect. |
Comparing them to PvE-only skills is the weirdest and possibly most far-fetched comparison I've seen here. They are not like PvE only skills, because the PvE skills are limited to 3 to prevent people from filling their bars with 8 incredibly overpowered skills that either do a lot of damage (PI) when used properly, or can't knock you down etc. Imagine an assassin with the following runner bar: Glyph, SF, Dwarven Stability, IAU, Don't Trip, Shadow Sanctuary, Mental Block, and a wrappable Mindmender, or change some skills with Feel No Pain, or drunken master, when drunk..
Enough examples.
You pay for cons, also personal cons, and as such, you should be free to use them. You didn't pay money for yyour PvE skills. And some pcons are only available once a year, and are super cheap for a month and then go ridiculously expensive all of a sudden..
drkn
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| They are not like PvE only skills, because the PvE skills are limited to 3 to prevent people from filling their bars with 8 incredibly overpowered skills that either do a lot of damage (PI) when used properly, or can't knock you down etc. Imagine an assassin with the following runner bar: [snip] |
3 PvE skills to prevent people from using eight incredibly overpowered skills, but having incredibly overpowered cons is fine? It's the very same thing. Imagine a sin with essence, grail, armor, egg, red candy, apple candy, (...). It's the very same - overpowered and making the game lol-easy.
Chocolate_Prayers
And what's wrong with making the game "lol-easy"? There will always be people out there that will enjoy that kind of gameplay. You can't seriously expect people to play the game the way that YOU want them to.
If you have a problem with consets, have you ever considered not using them yourself? Why spoil everything for everyone else just because you don't like something?
As Bright said, people earn the cons (and personal cons), whether it be through farming them, or through farming money in order to purchase them (which in turn allows other players to make money allowing them to finance items for their HoM for example) so they should be able to use them.
If you have a problem with consets, have you ever considered not using them yourself? Why spoil everything for everyone else just because you don't like something?
As Bright said, people earn the cons (and personal cons), whether it be through farming them, or through farming money in order to purchase them (which in turn allows other players to make money allowing them to finance items for their HoM for example) so they should be able to use them.
Bright Star Shine
Yes, I pop all these cons when tanking DoA. When I go into trench I pop: Cupcake, Egg, corn, pie, Apple, War supply. Why? Because it makes it a lot easier, that's true, but it's still not that easy. For me it is, because I'm used to it, yet I still have runs where I RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO things up because of bad timing or bad luck on patrols. Also pop all of the above but Cupcake when doing gloom cave. For all the rest, no personals.
People only pop that many cons when they are doing something that will be profitable. Or on record runs. How many personals that get popped there.. Jezus..
Anyway, small time players that do FoW and UW are already struggling to pull things off without failing, you want to penalize them even more? go ahead, the ones you are trying to hit with your genius idea won't get hit too hard. If you limit it to 3 all that's gonna be used is the conset itself, what will this do to us? Mesmers can't pop red rocks, which will make spikes a bit slower, and ssins will have a little bit more fails, and a harder time staying alive, but tbh trench won't get that much harder, you will only have to time the mesmer lord pull better, and at gloom cave there isn't really a problem, because you should be out of hitting range fast enough using SoH etc.. Although you probably don't understand any of what I just said..
tl;dr, still only shooting the innocent while trying to get the guilty. (yes, I just made that up :P)
People only pop that many cons when they are doing something that will be profitable. Or on record runs. How many personals that get popped there.. Jezus..
Anyway, small time players that do FoW and UW are already struggling to pull things off without failing, you want to penalize them even more? go ahead, the ones you are trying to hit with your genius idea won't get hit too hard. If you limit it to 3 all that's gonna be used is the conset itself, what will this do to us? Mesmers can't pop red rocks, which will make spikes a bit slower, and ssins will have a little bit more fails, and a harder time staying alive, but tbh trench won't get that much harder, you will only have to time the mesmer lord pull better, and at gloom cave there isn't really a problem, because you should be out of hitting range fast enough using SoH etc.. Although you probably don't understand any of what I just said..
tl;dr, still only shooting the innocent while trying to get the guilty. (yes, I just made that up :P)
drkn
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| And what's wrong with making the game lol easy? There will always be people out there that will enjoy that kind of gameplay. You can't seriously expect people to play the game that YOU want them to. |
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| If you have a problem with consets, have you ever considered not using them yourself? |
Unless i just wanted to get rid of them and popped them at Fort Ranik.
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| Anyway, small time players that do FoW and UW are already struggling to pull things off without failing, you want to penalize them even more? |
Now it's just... get eight people, pop cons, keep your eyes open and spam skills. Only the Four Horsemen keep the level.
E:
Actually, experienced SCers should favor the nerf of cons. Being good enough, they'd keep up with three cons rather than ten or more, while there'd be less people getting into SCs, making the drops more valuable.
So yeah, even if you want to SC, it'd be cool if you knew what you're doing and watched the field instead of popping five personal cons more.
Chocolate_Prayers
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Originally Posted by drkn
they're NOT necessary for normal play, while they change high-end, supposedly hard areas into an easy walk. That's a flaw in design.
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Originally Posted by drkn
It's funny how people base their arguments on assumptions. The only time i ever popped a conset is when i went for Mallyx with my fiancee and six heroes, with mes and rit primairies. That is, in 2,5 years time of playing GW.
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Originally Posted by Bright Star Shine
Anyway, small time players that do FoW and UW are already struggling to pull things off without failing, you want to penalize them even more? go ahead, the ones you are trying to hit with your genius idea won't get hit too hard.
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Suddenly restricting Speed Clearing would not do anybody any favors (except amusing those who just don't like seeing other people enjoy playing the game their own way)
This is just another part of the constant "NERF THIS PLZ I DONT LIKE IT" "OMG USELESS PLZ BUFF THIS" cycle.
It just ends up with more and more pointless nerfing/updating which I would imagine the Guild Wars Live team has little to no time for dealing with (Since everybody wants their new content amirite?)
Bright Star Shine
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Originally Posted by drkn
Yeah, i'd actually like to see high-end areas, at least the three of them, to be HARD to complete, taking at least several failures before your team gets a grasp on them. It used to be that way and it still is if you don't use cons and terribly broken gimmicky builds. UW, FoW and DoA were mean't to be hard and not doable at first run.
Now it's just... get eight people, pop cons, keep your eyes open and spam skills. Only the Four Horsemen keep the level. |
Now, SCs are only worth the time when they're done fast.
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E: Actually, experienced SCers should favor the nerf of cons. Being good enough, they'd keep up with three cons rather than ten or more, while there'd be less people getting into SCs, making the drops more valuable. So yeah, even if you want to SC, it'd be cool if you knew what you're doing and watched the field instead of popping five personal cons more. |
Only, I do not favor of this, because PUGs don't pop personals, unless it's like the weekend and they get them as drops, so they wouldn't be affected that badly.
Also, trying to let us agree with you by depicting us as people that can only pull off what we do because of personals, I'd like to see you do record stuff.. And dare to say that again.
Missing HB
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Originally Posted by Bright Star Shine
Now, imagine doing a 3h UW, just to end up with 2 ecto's from your run, 1 from the chest and a triple scroll drop. Noty. Not that I UW, but just as example.
Now, SCs are only worth the time when they're done fast. |
I had no problems with consets . But , i don't think that DoA in HM with consets should be 10 times easier than NM with no consets sorry....( really , i played DwG , it was simple random button mashing , i just moved and pressed 123123123 whole area....)...
One problem resulting from that is incredible prices and diferences of capital between players . Someone " abusing " those areas gets in my opinion too much money for the job done , whereas some places probably harder don't.....
@ 2 post aboves : you say we're restricting everyone by deciding for consets . Ok. But , those skeletons and dhuum in UW , which were supposed to make people stop doing SC , made it harder for everyone no ? ( and especially non-sc teams , since those are still able to finish it easily...)
Bright Star Shine
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Originally Posted by Missing HB
This is this kind of " only reward " mentality that's getting annoying in this game. Overall , it's devs fault with all those updates that turned players in that way , but still....
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| I had no problems with consets . But , i don't think that DoA in HM with consets should be 10 times easier than NM with no consets sorry....( really , i played DwG , it was simple random button mashing , i just moved and pressed 123123123 whole area....)... |
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| One problem resulting from that is incredible prices and diferences of capital between players . Someone " abusing " those areas gets in my opinion too much money for the job done , whereas some places probably harder don't..... |
DoA is the best money there is imo, but it takes the most brain. And a lot of things can go wrong. Well, in fact, once you know what's going on, it requires little to no brain anymore, but the learning process takes some time.
I forgot what I was getting to though..
Right, I was gonna say that it's entirely up to you what area you do, and if one would research the money earned in each area, they would notice DoA>>>>>>>>>>>UW>FoW. UW and FoW can trade places, depending on how long they take :P
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| @ 2 post aboves : you say we're restricting everyone by deciding for consets . Ok. But , those skeletons and dhuum in UW , which were supposed to make people stop doing SC , made it harder for everyone no ? ( and especially non-sc teams , since those are still able to finish it easily...) |
drkn
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| Us doing DoA HM 3 times faster, better and easier than ppl doing DwG NM has everything to do with tactics, not with cons. Also, people pop cons in NM too, so that's an invalid argument. |
Swingline
/notsigned
Changing consets at this stage in the game would throw the balance of the game off so much that there would need to be many changes. Consets were introduced to clear areas faster because after 5 years who wants to spend another 2 hours in FoW or UW. DoA is no exception with it taking 1-2 hours with a pug using consets and having some of the hardest hitting content in the game. They shouldn't nerf anything except skills at this stage in the game.
lmao
Changing consets at this stage in the game would throw the balance of the game off so much that there would need to be many changes. Consets were introduced to clear areas faster because after 5 years who wants to spend another 2 hours in FoW or UW. DoA is no exception with it taking 1-2 hours with a pug using consets and having some of the hardest hitting content in the game. They shouldn't nerf anything except skills at this stage in the game.
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Originally Posted by Bright Star Shine
(also @ 2 posts above, try to spell armbrace correctly please, it really annoys me)
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Bright Star Shine
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Originally Posted by drkn
I agree that tactics, team composition and general experience change a lot. But for a research experiment, i suggest you try and convince your group to run DoA HM with no cons, including personal, with your superb tactics. Compare the results both in time and sheer difficulty.
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No 20% IMS, which makes you run frustratingly slow.
Yeh, would probably be about 1h-1h10.
Missing HB
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Originally Posted by Bright Star Shine
Us doing DoA HM 3 times faster, better and easier than ppl doing DwG NM has everything to do with tactics, not with cons. Also, people pop cons in NM too, so that's an invalid argument.
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What i meant is that , whatever the build , players , etc.... DoA IS much easier with consets in HM than with none in NM. Just go and try with heroes there....( that's all the point of the topic, it's not a debate about times with consets in HM and consets in NM)....
Actually , you seem to run some special build and thus i have really no problem with that , since it relies probably on tactic. But , when i tried with heroes for hours and then went with some pug DwG , .. wow , it's incredible really...
Bright Star Shine
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That's not the problem. I don't care much of doing 27 or 35mn ( just examples ) since , for me , someone who does many DoA runs consec is for sure addict and only plays for the reward ( especially as glaiveway).... What i meant is that , whatever the build , players , etc.... DoA IS much easier with consets in HM than with none in NM. Just go and try with heroes there....( that's all the point of the topic, it's not a debate about times with consets in HM and consets in NM).... Actually , you seem to run some special build and thus i have really no problem with that , since it relies probably on tactic. But , when i tried with heroes for hours and then went with some pug DwG , .. wow , it's incredible really... |
Most PUGs however, indeed do DoA to make some quick money. Also, there is more to DoA than DwG, and most people who don't know the high-end PvE scene don't know this. It's a fairly compact world, consisting out of a handful of guilds (on the top of my head: LOD, Zraw, HRUU, DL, Fury, SPQR, CotS, some other french guilds in the ally with SPQR I can't come up with the names xD) who know each other quite well. But it is open to anyone who wants to try it, and most guilds don't immediatly reject people for lack of experience, because we all had to learn. Yet I'm deviating again. Back on track now.
What I was going to say: most of the guildies or some of the allies I play with have stockpiled enough money from doing DoA to take a nice retirement if they wanted to, they/we just don't. I know a couple of guildies who also do this because they enjoy it, and no longer for the reward. Don't know if I would still do it if the reward was completely taken away though, no way to find out I guess^^
EDIT: euh? What? Did you remove your post yourself, or was it removed? Cause I quoted you :-/
Self removed,I undeleted it: CB
Volo
this is out of place but fow never was that hard...long maybe without cons but not hard
with cons or without? well if u remove it im sure we will manage to find another way to do doa without it. dwg will be nerfed i think and i do have an idea how to do uw without cons (tested it during that bs contest that never happened)
tbh it would make the game more fun so i welcome change
ps: uw would be done in an 1:15h (i think) fow 45min with a coordinated team doa...well never tested it
with cons or without? well if u remove it im sure we will manage to find another way to do doa without it. dwg will be nerfed i think and i do have an idea how to do uw without cons (tested it during that bs contest that never happened)
tbh it would make the game more fun so i welcome change
ps: uw would be done in an 1:15h (i think) fow 45min with a coordinated team doa...well never tested it
Milennin
I have to agree, Consets are/were really a bad idea. If people can't do DoA without them, it means either the area is broken and needs a balancing update, or that everyone just sucks at the game and needs to get better at it.
Dev 1: "Hmmm. Not enough people can handle this elite area in the current game, how about we carefully balance it and make it so it's somewhat more do-able for the player base outside the absolute hardcore players."
Dev 2: "Nawww, why not just let people buy an instant god-mode button for a few K ingame and be done with it?"
Dev 3: "Dude! Great idea!!"
Dev 1: "Hmmm. Not enough people can handle this elite area in the current game, how about we carefully balance it and make it so it's somewhat more do-able for the player base outside the absolute hardcore players."
Dev 2: "Nawww, why not just let people buy an instant god-mode button for a few K ingame and be done with it?"
Dev 3: "Dude! Great idea!!"
Bright Star Shine
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Originally Posted by Milennin
I have to agree, Consets are/were really a bad idea. If people can't do DoA without them, it means either the area is broken and needs a balancing update, or that everyone just sucks at the game and needs to get better at it.
Dev 1: "Hmmm. Not enough people can handle this elite area in the current game, how about we carefully balance it and make it so it's somewhat more do-able for the player base outside the absolute hardcore players." Dev 2: "Nawww, why not just let people buy an instant god-mode button for a few K ingame and be done with it?" Dev 3: "Dude! Great idea!!" |
Also, I take it you are one of those people that has never even thought about doing DoA, and out of lack of knowledge just makes assumptions, because you obviously don't know anything about how it works, how balanced it is, or anything even remotely related. So, you just pointed out you're bad at the game.
Milennin
^ Nope, I can do DoA without consets actually. But nice assuming I never even been there.
I just don't see the justification for consets even being in the game. 99% of the game was a joke, and only got to be a bigger joke with this 7 heroes update. Consets are worthless garbage, only used to speed up a run through an area.
I just don't see the justification for consets even being in the game. 99% of the game was a joke, and only got to be a bigger joke with this 7 heroes update. Consets are worthless garbage, only used to speed up a run through an area.
drkn
@Bright
It's not about whether it's easy or not, or doable. I've mentioned using a conset only once, as i've killed Mallyx with my fiancee and 6 heroes - in the same group, we've cleared the whole DoA NM, as primairy rit and mes. Before the mesmer update, after VoR nerf - sometime about then. I can't say it was as hard as Operation Valhalla in good old Commandos, but at the same time, i wouldn't consider us lame at the game.
Still, it required knowledge about DoA, it took us a few runs to tweak our builds, time pulls, find routes. And still, it took us a 'while'. Even doing DoA with a guild group ~2 years ago took us a few hours, in NM.
Then, we could just switch to HM, pop cons, get some personal cons and do it twice faster than in NM, with the same people and builds...
My general points is - if you want fast farms, get raptors or vaettirs. Or anything like this. Leave high-end areas as hard places that pose some challenge, especially to PuGs.
It's not about whether it's easy or not, or doable. I've mentioned using a conset only once, as i've killed Mallyx with my fiancee and 6 heroes - in the same group, we've cleared the whole DoA NM, as primairy rit and mes. Before the mesmer update, after VoR nerf - sometime about then. I can't say it was as hard as Operation Valhalla in good old Commandos, but at the same time, i wouldn't consider us lame at the game.
Still, it required knowledge about DoA, it took us a few runs to tweak our builds, time pulls, find routes. And still, it took us a 'while'. Even doing DoA with a guild group ~2 years ago took us a few hours, in NM.
Then, we could just switch to HM, pop cons, get some personal cons and do it twice faster than in NM, with the same people and builds...
My general points is - if you want fast farms, get raptors or vaettirs. Or anything like this. Leave high-end areas as hard places that pose some challenge, especially to PuGs.