Selling In-Game Advantages (The Great Debate Over Mercenary Heroes)

Hey, Everyone.

Now that we've had some time to reflect and let things calm down a little, I'm interested in GW players' opinions on the Cash Shop Heroes. Specifically concerning whether or not these purchases affect gameplay in a positive or negative way.

This is a continuation of this closed thread, so I would recommend reading it first and acknowledging why it was closed prior to posting.

To have a concise and clear jumping-off point, here are a few questions:

• What kind of impact have you personally seen or felt stemming from the introduction of Mercenary Heroes?
  
• Do you consider the introduction of Mercenary Heroes to be an unfair game advantage for those with excess real-life money or an aesthetic fan-service that benefits many of the game's players (or both)? Explain.
  
• Are teams consisting of 7 heroes of the same profession consistent with the game's themes and/or felt values? Why or why not?
  
• Do you believe that this is a "trend" that the Live Team and Anet may continue to follow in the future? In your opinion, is that a good or bad thing?
  
• Profit is obviously always a concern for any for-profit business. However, over the years many game companies have added features to games specifically for the benefit of their fans, whether for monetary gain or not. What do you believe is the primary motivation for the addition of Mercenary Heroes - profit, fan service, or a mixture of both?
  
• Does the addition of Mercenary Heroes change your opinion on the direction of the future of the company; namely - Guild Wars 2? If so, in a positive or negative way?

Feel free to answer one, all, or none of those questions.


Remember to keep this thread clean of insults (masked or otherwise), ad hominems, and trolling. Let's be respectful of Anet employees and others' opinions, if for no other reason than to prevent the thread's closure.


For John Stumme's opinion on the issue visit his wiki page.

7 Heroes of the same profession is by and large unnecisary. Running 7 discord heroes for example is pointless. Three can spike down anything very quickly, and your much better off with some support heroes. The second most powerful type of Hero is the Mesmer. The problem is most of the most powerful Elites and skills of the Mesmer work off interupting, and as people have found trying to run a bunch of Mesmers is anti-synergetic as they are simply stepping on each others toes and desperate for things to rupt.

All in all, I would say that Merc heroes do not give you any sort of ingame advantage.

I have a hard time imagining 6 Chaos Storms, 5 ESurges, 1 Panic, 4-5 Interrupts, 5-6 Unnatural Sigs, 1 Wastrel's Worry, 1 Wastrel's Demise, 1-2 Mistrusts, utility, healing and/or minions not at least a little overpowered....

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Feedback:John_Stumme

John Stumme, Design Lead of the Live Team, put these thoughts up on his user page. It's a good idea to read that to know where Anet is coming from now. Short version is that theoretically, anything that could show up in a GW1 expansion is fair game.

It's funny HotSoup mentions Discord and lots of mes heroes. My friend in my guild did this, and was saying the SAME thing. Though he was quite happy with his female hero entourage.

Anyways, yeah I don't feel it provides any real advantage to someone who doesn't pay for them.
I'd have to see what other possible ideas the live team might want to put in the shop for it to be a "trend", and then i'd be able to comment on that.


edit: with what John S posted. I personally wouldn't mind a new profession for sale ! haha!

Thanks, FoxBat. I added the link to his main page on the original post.

I had already seen it and meant to link it. I had just forgotten. I appreciate knowing his perspective and what he and the Live Team believe this means for the company; however, I'm interested in hearing what the fans see this as.

I had no doubt, after hearing about the inclusion of Mercenary Heroes, that John believed this addition to be purely aesthetic. I believe he wants the best for the game and he's doing some great things. This implementation just has a lot of controversy, and there's nothing wrong with airing that out.


EDIT: I would also like to point out that while I like John and his overall goals in the game, this is one of the ones that irks me. Suggesting that buying a new profession may be a possibility worries me, as does his suggestion that having more storage panes could be considered an advantage (it is in wealth, but not gameplay). Paying for content is one thing, that is another.

It's far from surprising that it was done. All that businesses want to do is make money by any means neccessary, ncsoft/anet are no different, infact I'd say NCsoft are the most money grabbing game publishers around.

Same answer as before:

Yes it's an in-game advantage. Players with merc heroes have access to team build possibilities that no one else does. In particular, access to a 3rd rit, 3rd mesmer, or 4th necro has a huge impact. (3 rits means offensive channeling + offensive communing + defensive communing. 4 necros means physway can have curses+orders+minions+resto. (Also more discordway crap, but I'm not going to talk about that...) Every additional mesmer means access to another overpowered elite, and most of them synergize. (Also mono-build gimmicks like multi-e-surge or multi-PI.))

Potential solutions are:

1. Cap the number of heroes for each profession that a player can bring at the number of normal heroes for that profession. (Ex: A player cannot bring more than 2 mesmer heroes.)

2. Give everyone one merc hero slot for free. (No, this does not solve the problem, but it's a big incremental step because a lot of the most powerful combinations are only one off from the normal hero limits.)

This is not a trend that a-net should continue. Selling in-game advantages for real-world cash is a surefire way to turn your game to crap. And I want no part of it.

I think that there is an advantage. I do not think it is an extreme advantage in any case, but I do believe that there is an advantage to having merc heroes.

I also believe that because the advantage is fairly small it is not a big deal BUT, it is still an advantage. I think it would be a fairly easy advantage to fix, as someone suggested before, just putting a "zaishen hero" or something that can be any profession. This way it would fix the advantage.

I hope that this small advantage wont turn into the norm and turn into larger cash shop advantages down the road.

I dont agree with Johns thoughts about the merc heroes. He mentions that something that would be fair would be a profession release that was paid for. I dont agree with this at all and I never want to see this enter the cash shop even if it is completely balanced with all other classes. Only time I would ever want to see a new profession is with new content. However that is a different discussion.

I feel that if this is the biggest advantage there will ever be in the cash shop, then it will be fine and this is no big deal. However I wouldnt mind a Zaishen hero add and a price drop on those merc heroes.

Heh, no kidding. People keep talking about how mesmers stumble over each other, yet with a little micro, im spiking hordes like SC teams. 7 necros is STILL the the most overused and short-sighted argument for why mercs are a bad idea, yet mesmers are consistently the most powerful in PVE for a number of reasons. BTW, Panic + PI does NOT conflict. Anything that would make it through results in mass ass sitting.

I added a question after seeing this post. Obviously, the future of Anet isn't GW; it's GW2. Does this addition affect anyone's opinion on the future direction of the company?

People already paid for their in-game advantage, you can't undo it now.

Well, you might add a 9th merc slot for free. Or a 3rd mesmer hero would go a long way.

It concerns me, but doesn't affect my purchasing of GW2 when it comes out. At least not yet. If they start making things that are more advantageous (did i really spell that right>?) for real $$, then it will affect my opinion of the company. But for now, I don't really mind this tiny advantage, as long as this is as far as it will ever get and it was not really "intended" it just kind of happened.

But, if they purposely said, oh well they will pay for it cause they can have 7 more necros, then that will affect my opinion.

Do you play console games? No, they aren't. Not by a long shot.

Hell, look at most other free to play MMOs...buying things in the cash shop not only gives you an advantage, but a lot of the time is required if you want to do anything past a certain point, and free players are not only highly disadvantaged but are very limited in what they can do and can access.

NCSoft is, with Guild Wars at least, nowhere near being the "most money grabbing" around.

Any game company silly enough to even suggest something like that (besides EA or Activision) wouldn't last long. Gamers want to know that you care and are passionate about your game/community.

A good example is Dragon Age II. EA pissed off a lot of people by forcing them to jump through hoops for bonus items (Facebook games are the new crux of console gaming), and even more so by releasing DLC the same day that the game released. This gave many gamers and reviewers the feeling that they were paying for an incomplete product and having to shell out an additional $8 for first-day DLC. The reaction to this was lower-than-expected sales and some biased reviews.

The difference is that EA can pull stuff like that off and Anet probably can't. I know this isn't a direct correlation, but the idea of selling content is much easier for me to swallow than the idea of paying for a profession or a game advantage.

I think he meant like City of Heroes or Aion, which do in fact sell a lot of stuff in their cash shops.

Yeah, I was just kinda jumpin off the deep end with it lol.

But yeah, the way John has stated it is that they wouldnt mind having Professions/other stuff in the cash shop as long as it wasnt an advantage. I think professions are a little too hard to control and show that it actually has no advantage at all, but I am fine with other things that they put in there, as long as there is no advantage.

From what I can tell though, they GW2 model seems to be without advantageous cash shop items, So I am happy.

And guild wars is not their only game is it....

• What kind of impact have you personally seen or felt stemming from the introduction of Mercenary Heroes?
  None, other than some guildies enjoying themselves.
  
  
• Do you consider the introduction of Mercenary Heroes to be an unfair game advantage for those with excess real-life money or an aesthetic fan-service that benefits many of the game's players (or both)? Explain.
  Human allies will always be the biggest advantage a player can have. Moreover, with seven hero slots, solo players have more capability than ever before.
  
  
• Are teams consisting of 7 heroes of the same profession consistent with the game's themes and/or felt values? Why or why not?
  I don't think it's entirely fair to decree what exactly the game values are, unless you work for ArenaNet, but IMO, it's team play. This was sacrificed long ago. The earliest I can remember being when 55s ran the elite game and farms. Since then it's been one exploitation and power creep after another. But what makes this a moot point is that five humans can already pair with many profession combinations to have a homogeneous party, and there's nothing unethical about that. The only thing that's changed is the number of heroes, and they're established dummies.
  
  
• Do you believe that this is a "trend" that the Live Team and Anet may continue to follow in the future? In your opinion, is that a good or bad thing?
  I hope so, they are listening to their fans and giving an old game some polish. While I think there are more technical issues with the game I'd like resolved, it's a nice luxury feature.
  
  
• Profit is obviously always a concern for any for-profit business. However, over the years many game companies have added features to games specifically for the benefit of their fans, whether for monetary gain or not. What do you believe is the primary motivation for the addition of Mercenary Heroes - profit, fan service, or a mixture of both?
  A mixture. They wouldn't have done it if it was never suggested, and if you were to poll players right now I think the feedback would be positive. This was a smart move from both perspectives and most importantly it's more about fun than anything else.
  
  
• Does the addition of Mercenary Heroes change your opinion on the direction of the future of the company; namely - Guild Wars 2? If so, in a positive or negative way?
  I'd have to say positive, as there won't be heroes or henchmen in GW2. The only impact this has is on GW1; Anet has been showing with GW2 that they are listening to fans and creating a game that anyone can enjoy.

Personally I've not purchased this item and I don't feel "gimped". I don't believe this is a cash advantage as the more homogeneous a party becomes, especially with AI, versatility diminishes.

* What kind of impact have you personally seen or felt stemming from the introduction of Mercenary Heroes?

None. I'm not sure how what someone else does in their instance of Zen Daijun is supposed to affect my instance of Zen Daijun, you know?


* Do you consider the introduction of Mercenary Heroes to be an unfair game advantage for those with excess real-life money or an aesthetic fan-service that benefits many of the game's players (or both)? Explain.

Neither, actually. I think it's about on par with makeovers & toon renaming.

* Are teams consisting of 7 heroes of the same profession consistent with the game's themes and/or felt values? Why or why not?

We already have teams of 7+ toons of the same profession running their way through various elite areas. It's like asking if SC teams are consistent with the game's themes and/or felt values. If that's what someone wants to do for THEIR experience of the game, so be it. Not my thing. *shrugs*

* Do you believe that this is a "trend" that the Live Team and Anet may continue to follow in the future? In your opinion, is that a good or bad thing?

It's a business. They need to make money. I think they're finding an excellent balance between enhancing the players' experience and making a profit.

* Profit is obviously always a concern for any for-profit business. However, over the years many game companies have added features to games specifically for the benefit of their fans, whether for monetary gain or not. What do you believe is the primary motivation for the addition of Mercenary Heroes - profit, fan service, or a mixture of both?

I think it's part of an overall plan to essentially turn GW1 into an acclimation experience for GW2. I work in the industry, so I'm always looking at things from a business perspective.... and a lot of the changes I'm seeing right now in GW1 speak to me as being prep-work towards acclimating existing players (and new ones who may explore GW1 in anticipation of GW2 after seeing it hyped) to the rather significant changes in the mechanics of GW2.

* Does the addition of Mercenary Heroes change your opinion on the direction of the future of the company; namely - Guild Wars 2? If so, in a positive or negative way?

Nope. I have a very favorable opinion of where ANet is heading with both titles. I see a level of morality in their business decisions and care for players that is sorely lacking in most major labels.

Neither do I. This thread isn't for "butthurt" kids who can't afford 8 RoJ monks to complain (obviously). This thread is to explore the ramifications of this decision and the future implications.

Some people are going to be pissed. Some people are going to be happy. And some people couldn't care either way (*raises hand*). I'm just interested and I think it's a good way for us to reevaluate where the game is going.