I think a way to get more people playing competitive PvP in GW would be to have the players drop random loot. I am NOT suggesting that they drop their own loot, but loot that is randomly generated like from mobs in PvE.
My reason: New players need a carrot to chase. Rank carrots don't work for a lot of us because the amount of time it takes to get in a group as a lowbie. I see many posts about certain formats dying off and it seems to me that new methods need to be employed. While there were certain times I had fun in HA and GvG, I got tired of being cussed at in all caps or trolled afterwards win or lose. If loot dropped, I may be persuaded to give it another go.
Another reason a lot of us mainly PvE players don't play PvP is because we like loot. Also, fighting NPC's doesn't get us cussed at. A big reason that gets overlooked as to why more people don't play PvP in GW is because there are a lot of mean spirited players in PvP. Period. I don't think that part of it can ever get fixed. Sometimes I think there is nothing that will ever make GW PvP (HA, GvG)something that will be played by a major portion of the player base, but loot drops would be a huge step in that direction.
Have HA/GvG Players Drop Loot Like Monsters in PvE
jazilla
Olle
/notsigned
kind of obvious why.
terrabad idea, sorry.
kind of obvious why.
terrabad idea, sorry.
chuckles79
I can tell you right now what's going to be all the replies:
Thoughtful Noobie: That might work
HA Elitist: $#@!ing noobies everywhere, I do nothing but HA so don't make it easier for people to get in
GvG Elitist: a 3 page essay on why it won't work
Thoughtful Noobie: That might work
HA Elitist: $#@!ing noobies everywhere, I do nothing but HA so don't make it easier for people to get in
GvG Elitist: a 3 page essay on why it won't work
chuckles79
Quote:
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Originally Posted by kajusbonus
/notsigned
kind of obvious why. terrabad idea, sorry. |
Why do GvG'rs and HA'rs get upset at these ideas? I would think a noob-influx would aid abet their chances to get to the HoH and/or rack up victories every time and better the odds of winning.
It would also create a new group of players who will be able to advance in their ranks, and might allow some fresh blood into your teams. To replace that monk who's good...but not that good?
Olle
Quote:
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Originally Posted by chuckles79
No, it's not obvious or it would have never been brought up.
Why do GvG'rs and HA'rs get upset at these ideas? I would think a noob-influx would aid abet their chances to get to the HoH and/or rack up victories every time and better the odds of winning. It would also create a new group of players who will be able to advance in their ranks, and might allow some fresh blood into your teams. To replace that monk who's good...but not that good? |
im not upset, really, its just an bad idea...
1: will they drop loot every time they die?
2: will it always be gold?
3: will the loot come from cantha,NF,eotn,proph,core?
~~
1: say hello to the new endless farm! you +friends facing yours+their sec acc,just killing them over and over, picking up the good items
2:If not, what determends if the kill is worth an gold or purple(thinking NM/HM)
3: sometime, someone will get a q9 echovald, dualmod,and then i just say welcome to the shitstorm rage.
Ser The Monk
The entire point of PvP is that loot does not matter. If you want loot go waste your time pveing. PvP is about skill. If the only reason you are PvPing is to get some type of loot, then frankly you shouldn't be PvPing in the first place. The sport of PvP will be ruined because people will become focused on killing to get loot when that is not at all aligned with the objectives of GvG/HoH. Furthermore, if your so crazed about loot (and thus the GW economy), creating more ways for people to get loot will further screw up the already damaged GW economy.
GvGers don't care about a noob influx as long as the noobs want to learn about GvG, about the team work involved, and about winning based on the objectives. However, if people came into a team to basically loot, GvG is ruined and what was pvp is eventually melded into a new form of pve.
Also: There is already a looting form in place. It's called zkeys.
GvGers don't care about a noob influx as long as the noobs want to learn about GvG, about the team work involved, and about winning based on the objectives. However, if people came into a team to basically loot, GvG is ruined and what was pvp is eventually melded into a new form of pve.
Also: There is already a looting form in place. It's called zkeys.
Aldric
Terrible idea. It would have the arse farmed out of it constantly and being honest , if i havent bothered my arse to pvp before , the fact that random shite or meaningless amounts of gold will drop is hardly going to encourage me to.
/notsigned (a pve'r)
/notsigned (a pve'r)
DolyakJockey
either it would be exploited with people using multiple accounts or botfest central.
Shadar
Sure why not, I support this for HA. It's already so bad in there terrible ideas like this one can't hurt.
RedDog91
Wait for GW2.
World vs World combat will have players dropping loot.
World vs World combat will have players dropping loot.
Skye Marin
What HA and GvG actually need to attract new players are training modes, tutorials, better team matchmaking, and maybe even a mentoring system where experienced players get exclusive perks for training new players.
Adding drops to PvP would only add an uneasy element of some players risking their team's chances of winning for a 200g vendor trash drop. I seriously doubt that will encourage new players to invest the too many damn hours it takes to put together a successful team. Hey look! A Gladius! It's req 10 even!
PvEer's don't PvP not because of lack of drops, but because it's impenetrable and frustrating for newcomers.
The only way you'll get updates to HA if you and a dozen buddies with 10+ years of game development experience volunteered at Anet to work for free for six months.
The only way it would be effective is if you also invented a time machine and did this more than 3 years ago.
Otherwise read here:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/h...24#post5325924
Adding drops to PvP would only add an uneasy element of some players risking their team's chances of winning for a 200g vendor trash drop. I seriously doubt that will encourage new players to invest the too many damn hours it takes to put together a successful team. Hey look! A Gladius! It's req 10 even!
PvEer's don't PvP not because of lack of drops, but because it's impenetrable and frustrating for newcomers.
The only way you'll get updates to HA if you and a dozen buddies with 10+ years of game development experience volunteered at Anet to work for free for six months.
The only way it would be effective is if you also invented a time machine and did this more than 3 years ago.
Otherwise read here:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/h...24#post5325924
xhappy feetx
Quote:
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Originally Posted by chuckles79
I can tell you right now what's going to be all the replies:
Thoughtful Noobie: That might work HA Elitist: $#@!ing noobies everywhere, I do nothing but HA so don't make it easier for people to get in GvG Elitist: a 3 page essay on why it won't work |
Sigh.
Essence Snow
Quote:
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Originally Posted by RedDog91
Wait for GW2.
World vs World combat will have players dropping loot. |
It's funny all the comments bout how horrible it would be, yet a type of this will happen in GW2.
RedDog91
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Essence Snow
^^This
It's funny all the comments bout how horrible it would be, yet a type of this will happen in GW2. |
They already stated that its completely possible to go from lvl1 to lvl80 just by doing WvW, so they are gonna make players drop random loot so you can get new weapons and armor without ever having to leave (note, it will be possible but not recommended because imagine how long it will take to get loot you need)
Missing HB
Quite ridiculous idea. People would more likely go in without caring of winning or losing . People would not play in the intention of winning halls or even to get fame. Most would just roll sfway , get items on UW then resign....
The idea could be better if it was getting for example 750-1000 factions per kill...
The idea could be better if it was getting for example 750-1000 factions per kill...
Artisan Archer
Quote:
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Originally Posted by chuckles79
I can tell you right now what's going to be all the replies:
Thoughtful Noobie: That might work HA Elitist: $#@!ing noobies everywhere, I do nothing but HA so don't make it easier for people to get in GvG Elitist: a 3 page essay on why it won't work |
Fate Crusher
Quote:
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Originally Posted by chuckles79
No, it's not obvious or it would have never been brought up.
Why do GvG'rs and HA'rs get upset at these ideas? I would think a noob-influx would aid abet their chances to get to the HoH and/or rack up victories every time and better the odds of winning. It would also create a new group of players who will be able to advance in their ranks, and might allow some fresh blood into your teams. To replace that monk who's good...but not that good? |
It's obvious because loot drops are a completely different element compared to PvP. It's obvious because the faction you earn can already be used to exchange for Zaishen Keys. It's obvious any PvPer will find this useless and pointless because you bankroll yourself through Zkeys and RPs.
It's also obvious that at this day and age, anyone who wants to play HA or GvG would rather play against skilled players like the days of old, rather than facing Invoke teams or faceroll builds. There's no fun in this. So if there is an influx of retards playing PvP, it will force the exp players to quit even more regularly.
Besides, no one good plays HA anymore, only a select few who have to resort to pugs/friends. If anything, people should be thinking of ideas to create more competitiveness in PvP (random loot drops is not the type of incentive a PvP player would want, especially with how GW treats max weapons) and try to bring back the players and guilds that made HA fun in the first place. How they will do this, I have no clue; because HA has been flawed for yeaaarrsssss.
yitjuan
thats such a cool idea, me and my guild will go find another guild who is willing to play 500 gvg matches so we can farm lewt.
MithranArkanere
Instead of dropping the items, I'd rather have them sent directly to the inventory.
We don't need people wasting time to pick stuff, or vultures looking for unclaimed drops.
As for which items, any Zaishen chest drop would do. But I think it would be better to just give ZCoins. So they can get ZKeys or any of the other ZCoin items themselves.
We don't need people wasting time to pick stuff, or vultures looking for unclaimed drops.
As for which items, any Zaishen chest drop would do. But I think it would be better to just give ZCoins. So they can get ZKeys or any of the other ZCoin items themselves.
Guild Wars Genie
yitjuan, they probably wont make it so arranged matches will drop loot that'd be dumb
lemming
The only people who will benefit from it in GvG are people who plan to abuse it.
HA, maybe.
HA, maybe.
Xslash
the problem with this is that if implemented:
1. the money you make from the drops is so small nobody bothers OR
2. people will game the system.
1. the money you make from the drops is so small nobody bothers OR
2. people will game the system.
Sir Baddock
Win once in a while and you can open the precious chest. <3. As for GvG, Enter Tournaments, Get Points, Get Keys, Sell Keys. Profit.
chuckles79
First off, why would someone bother to comment on stereotypes they don't believe exist???
Second the only reasonable objection I've heard is people fearing that some idiot will compromise the team's victory to pick up loot.
If your team member is that thick-headed, then you probably weren't going to get far anyhow.
Second the only reasonable objection I've heard is people fearing that some idiot will compromise the team's victory to pick up loot.
If your team member is that thick-headed, then you probably weren't going to get far anyhow.
Bristlebane
THE ONLY way it WOULD work..
... is if the item drops are rare, and they're automatically customized to the PvP character. That way you might get a nice skin as a PvPer but you can't go exploiting it with friends/accounts to sell drops on PvE market. And what if the drop is not good for you? Well your PvP heroes can still use it.
... is if the item drops are rare, and they're automatically customized to the PvP character. That way you might get a nice skin as a PvPer but you can't go exploiting it with friends/accounts to sell drops on PvE market. And what if the drop is not good for you? Well your PvP heroes can still use it.
jazilla
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ser The Monk
The entire point of PvP is that loot does not matter. If you want loot go waste your time pveing. PvP is about skill. If the only reason you are PvPing is to get some type of loot, then frankly you shouldn't be PvPing in the first place.
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Gruff
People don't pvp for items or gold they do it for fun and personal challenge.
Things like the gvg workshops and commentaries will help get the message out there how fun this part of the game can be, and how anyone can jump in and play.
Sorry it's three sentences and not three pages
Things like the gvg workshops and commentaries will help get the message out there how fun this part of the game can be, and how anyone can jump in and play.
Sorry it's three sentences and not three pages
HawkofStorms
Keep in mind, it may work in GW2 via an automated pick up window.
Ie, you would just get the item automatically or it would show up in your overflow bag.
But in this situation in GW1, you would actually have to physically pick up the item. For OBVIOUS reasons, that would be quite terrible, as people would end up moving out of position mid-fight in order to pick up loot. I don't want my monk running off halfway across the map and into the enemy backlines to pick up a chaos axe that just dropped for him.
Obviously people are going to do this. It isn't "thick headed" to risk losing a single PvP match if you just got an item drop that is worth 100k+100e. But it would grief the hell out of your teammates. Also, since there is always the chance you might lose the match (and therefore possibly lose the item) there is no guarantee you would be able to pick up the item after the match. You'd "have" to pick up the item as soon as you could. Unlike PvE, in PvP, somebody always loses. You don't get a chance to res up and run back to the loot and pick it up. You'd just lose it.
It would distract people from the actual fight.
Furthermore, you already can get PvE loot in PvP, via reward points or via the HoH victory chest. Believe me, it is hard enough to keep my inventory in order when I win halls. But if it got cluttered during every single JQ/RA match, I'd go nuts.
PS chuckles79, I'm a primarily PvE character who is leaving a thoughtful post that disagrees with you. So, instead of trolling people as PvP or PvE players, why don't you just think about ideas logically. Just because somebody disagrees with you doesn't make them "elitest."
Ie, you would just get the item automatically or it would show up in your overflow bag.
But in this situation in GW1, you would actually have to physically pick up the item. For OBVIOUS reasons, that would be quite terrible, as people would end up moving out of position mid-fight in order to pick up loot. I don't want my monk running off halfway across the map and into the enemy backlines to pick up a chaos axe that just dropped for him.
Obviously people are going to do this. It isn't "thick headed" to risk losing a single PvP match if you just got an item drop that is worth 100k+100e. But it would grief the hell out of your teammates. Also, since there is always the chance you might lose the match (and therefore possibly lose the item) there is no guarantee you would be able to pick up the item after the match. You'd "have" to pick up the item as soon as you could. Unlike PvE, in PvP, somebody always loses. You don't get a chance to res up and run back to the loot and pick it up. You'd just lose it.
It would distract people from the actual fight.
Furthermore, you already can get PvE loot in PvP, via reward points or via the HoH victory chest. Believe me, it is hard enough to keep my inventory in order when I win halls. But if it got cluttered during every single JQ/RA match, I'd go nuts.
PS chuckles79, I'm a primarily PvE character who is leaving a thoughtful post that disagrees with you. So, instead of trolling people as PvP or PvE players, why don't you just think about ideas logically. Just because somebody disagrees with you doesn't make them "elitest."
jazilla
Just have the loot box show up at the end of matches containing what you got win or lose. You know, like it does when you get out of a mission and there is leftover loot. Sorry that the wording of dropping it is so misleading in my OP. There are ways to fix this though.
I am also surprised that not many very experienced players commented on the other stuff in my OP about player behavior. It is a seriously large reason why a lot more people don't play HA or GvG more regularly.
I am also surprised that not many very experienced players commented on the other stuff in my OP about player behavior. It is a seriously large reason why a lot more people don't play HA or GvG more regularly.
DolyakJockey
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Essence Snow
^^This
It's funny all the comments bout how horrible it would be, yet a type of this will happen in GW2. |
Xsiriss
In a pure PvP system (not massive world v world liek in GW2) this is horrible for so many reasons. The most simple being, PvP is about the competitive edge so unless you're playing for that stick to PvE.
jazilla
Quote:
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Originally Posted by DolyakJockey
The BIG HUGE difference: GW II will have this game play from the START, rather than implementing this 5 yrs down the road.
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What Guru is doing is a huge step in the right direction, but I have many friends who haven't stepped into it because of the time requirement and the reward not being the right reward. Add more incentive for PvE minded people and you may actually have PvP formats see a resurgence.
Also, if you don't have ideas, or aren't proactively trying to get more people to play in a format you love, then don't hit me with a "That's a terribad idea". Post a counter argument and be constructive. I am actually trying to get players into GvG and HA(including myself). I know coming from a Rank 3 Gladiator like myself, that may not mean much, but I like PvP, and would like to see more things get others involved to broaden the player base past the "Go back to PvE, scrub" talk that I see so much of in competitive Guild Wars.
Sir Baddock
Wasn't there an Interview about Embark Beach recently where a Staff Member of ArenaNet mentioned they have plans to update PvP this year, that being said PvP in Guild Wars 1 is dying, it's not completely dead but it's nothing like it was a few years ago. Adding this system could potentially be expanded on so that instead of random drop's Balthazar Faction point gains could be updated and additional item rewards could also be added as additional rewards instead of Zaishen Key's, Skills, PvP Items.
I don't know about anyone else but Balthazar faction is completely useless for me outside of Zaishen Key's, I've unlocked everything possible with Balthazar faction (pet's included) so the only thing left to do is earn Zaishen Keys.
Regardless a change like this would have had to happen years ago, changing anything now would probably not make any large amount of players return.
I don't know about anyone else but Balthazar faction is completely useless for me outside of Zaishen Key's, I've unlocked everything possible with Balthazar faction (pet's included) so the only thing left to do is earn Zaishen Keys.
Regardless a change like this would have had to happen years ago, changing anything now would probably not make any large amount of players return.
Missing HB
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Gruff
People don't pvp for items or gold they do it for fun and personal challenge.
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Elnino
Two Words: Match Manipulation
jazilla
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Elnino
Two Words: Match Manipulation
|
It's why Boxing is a dying sport. It's why Major League Baseball is on the decline. Honest players don't want to play against people with an edge who don't care for the rules.
I am really interested in how Guru handles this upcoming tournament.
Brian the Gladiator
Quote:
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Originally Posted by kajusbonus
/notsigned
kind of obvious why. terrabad idea, sorry. |
I think it's a great idea and I truly see zero down side. I don't think having the items fall on the ground is a good idea because important items often need to be picked up (flags) and I don't like clutter there. Just have the items appear in the persons inventory like hero armors.
Suggestion for loot drops:
Gold (money)... obviously
Tomes of dead persons profession
Cons - only 1-use tonics and party items that are pvp themed that effect target ally... like one that puts a giant sign that says "noob" over target person for a few seconds (don't QQ... it's just for fun) or one that makes a lightning bolt strike target ally and make the person appear charred and blackened for a few seconds.
Killing Guild Lord gives one person on the winning party an item that is obtained from the HA chest.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Xsiriss
In a pure PvP system (not massive world v world liek in GW2) this is horrible for so many reasons. The most simple being, PvP is about the competitive edge so unless you're playing for that stick to PvE.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Elnino
Two Words: Match Manipulation
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Elnino
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Brian the Gladiator
Logic dictates deleting Underworld from the game if this were truly a reason to not make the game more fun... What is worse, not getting items in pvp for added fun and incentive?... or having a couple bad eggs do something they aren't supposed to do until you can figure out how to stop them... in which case they move on to finding out new ways to cheat the system?
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Mireles
It is the format that is broken not the rewards, only the elite will play as long the format caters to consecutive wins being highly beneficial... which encourages highly discriminate players to required to accomplish those streaks...
As i said in other forums
If wins were rewarded on a flat rate basis... a "elite" player may considering forming a party faster if he knows that he could squeeze out a few wins with the hours he would normally spend being highly discriminate... and a non-elite player will play for a win here and there... instead of losing constantly trying to obtain a streak and gain little nothing for his or her time....leading them to the conclusion of: "pvp is just not worth the time and effort when there is a part of the game that will reward me for my time"
/notsigned
As i said in other forums
If wins were rewarded on a flat rate basis... a "elite" player may considering forming a party faster if he knows that he could squeeze out a few wins with the hours he would normally spend being highly discriminate... and a non-elite player will play for a win here and there... instead of losing constantly trying to obtain a streak and gain little nothing for his or her time....leading them to the conclusion of: "pvp is just not worth the time and effort when there is a part of the game that will reward me for my time"
/notsigned
Sauron The Greatest
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Bristlebane
THE ONLY way it WOULD work..
... is if the item drops are rare, and they're automatically customized to the PvP character. That way you might get a nice skin as a PvPer but you can't go exploiting it with friends/accounts to sell drops on PvE market. And what if the drop is not good for you? Well your PvP heroes can still use it. |
PvP heroes... I Lol'ed.