[HM] The Underworld & Dhuum discussion

Just sacrifice a hero at the start and micro RoD to keep everyone at +10%, it works fine even if it's pita to keep checking on everyone's dp/morale.

I swear this is such a gentle but ultimately firm rebuke to get me to try UW again. But it's true, of course. I guess I should and just not be lazy and micro RoD ...

I've learned more and more about UW and the tactics required to do it, but execution is tremendously difficult. 4H is without much doubt the single hardest quest in the game (other than The Nightman Cometh, at least, but I must've tried 4H over 30 times and I've only gotten to Dhuum twice), at least if it's done the Muddy Terrain way. Time is just so short, precise micro so necessary, and yes - random factors to take into account too.

It sucks as well that I have to deliberately run a subpar teambuild to maximize my chance of killing Dhuum. Spending 30 minutes to get to Plains and wiping is still better than spending 2 and a half hours in UW to get to Dhuum then failing ... and unfortunately there's no precedent I can build off on. If I could I'd run mass casters as usual, but I have no idea if mass casters can survive Dhuum. Judgment does about 110 damage to AL 70 characters, so even with "Stand Your Ground!" up it might blow through the team.

Things I hope someone with experience can help with:

1. "Can't Touch This!" does not stop Dhuum's Touch, but does it reduce Dhuum's Touch output (that is, the number of times Dhuum uses Touch)? That's what I'm reading from Foxbat's and Reformed's posts. It seems Foxbat, using CTT, suffered from fewer Touch of Dhuum's. That does not contradict Reformed's post, because fewer (not zero) Touches will still force DP removal eventually. If CTT does reduce Dhuum's Touch output then it's a small victory, and I'll probably find a slot for it somewhere in the team.
2. Can I get away with 2 Kaolai's, 2 Spirit Lights and 1 Life vs. Dhuum (with mass summons, of course)? If not, how much pure redbar will I need?
3. With a pure ST Prot Rit, can I get away with not micro'ing Shelter?
4. Is there a reliable way to choose which hero dies against Dhuum, other than making that hero one of numbers #1, #2 and #3?

To be honest I think questions 2 and 3 need me to get to Dhuum and test it directly. Which makes me kick myself even more for successfully failing Demon Assassin today with all the difficult quests already done

Maybe. The thing with PwK is that it's a quick heal (given hero reflexes), but it's no so much a big heal, and the recharge is problematic. Do the math I guess: Take Judgment's damage against your softest team member, multiply by 5, subtract 2x PwK, subtract ~1/2 of Life's maximum heal. Does that leave you with enough hp to take the next scythe hit and not die?

Depends on whether you can survive and heal the damage from Judgment
I'd be really impressed to see Shelter eat the first hit off Judgment and then get microed fast enough to eat the last hit too.

Eh... I dunno. Maybe set the victim to aggressive and everyone else to avoid combat?

----

Another random thought: Monsters in UW generally don't heal very effectively. Besides the smites, nothing has more healing than native regen plus AoR/Healing Spring/PBond. Perhaps a winning strategy might be to approach UW like a turtle. Bring just enough damage to kill smites and Dhuum's summons, and tons of healing, mitigation, and cleaning. Fight 4H at the reaper and prioritize the horsemen themselves before they divert/PBlock too many skills.

I'm pretty sure if you flag the heroes into the hall without stepping in yourself and equip the ones you want dead with a vamp weapon then they can come back as ghosts before you even start the fight.

CTT doesn't do anything at all not even frequency. There's never been a point in the dozens of runs I've done as a physical down there that I can't remember pinging for DP/reversal at least a few times.

The main point of having the skill to begin with was honestly negating Throw Dirt a side effect of which was also getting rid of Star Burst and Shock.

CTT stops the touch, but it doesnt send it to recharge. So the amount of touches you take depend on how intent Dhuum is on spamming touch

The skill never fails. When CTT stops a touch skill the monitor acts exactly as though the skill was interrupted complete with a click. This never happens with Touch of Dhuum (Headbutt as an example of when it behaves normally) so something is a bit screwy. I'd notice if he was spamming through it since I have him targeted for melee attacks the entire fight.

The 3 biggest issues in my book, which currently cause for 95% of my runs to fail (I steamroll everything, but I micro like a mad man)

-You can only assign hotkeys to heroes 1 -> 3. This obviously meaning that all your heavy micro heroes (which in my build are 5) must be on spot 1 -> 3, the rest must be micro'd through clicking, which sucks ass.

-You can only flag heroes 1 -> 3, so 4H alot of the time simply becomes luck fest on wether or not heroes get caught in AoE. Obviously, I'm reflexing heroes out of AoE, and I succeed 99% of the time, but even stuff like fireballspikes completely dominates my team, as one fireball drops my heroes to +-60% HP. Worse even, the enemy's AI seems to be particularly good at finding balled up heroes, so 4H really does become a "kill them before they kill you"-fest because Anet simply doesn't give us the option to spread out all our heroes.

-Heroes ignoring commands. This latter one is probably the largest reason why I loose so much. I'm forcing an Infuse, Spirit Tranfer, Spirit Bond or whatever "last resort" skill on the Reaper, and my heroes litterealy stand there doing RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO all. Obviously, some people will claim 'they were knocked in AoE', or try to pass the blame on shortcommings on my end, but there have litterealy been times when the reaper is at 60% HP (so still good to go), and I pre-infuse (Heroes got ER anyways, so he can spend it), and by the time he reacts, the Reaper is already dead.

I've waited upwards of 8 seconds for a Hero who is in range, not Pblocked or whatever and not getting AoE'd or KD'd, to use a skill, only to watch the Reaper die in front of my eyes due to a single Meteor Shower.

Being an ex-top 20 Hero Battler, I obviously know the severe limitations of Heroes, but I've never gotten over the fact that Anet implements a "force" mechanic on a Hero (Which should have priority above everything) which apparently has got a relatively low priority, and it keeps getting me frustrated, time and time again.

That alone is the reason I've currently given up on UW, due to 8 failures by heroes ignoring direct pings in-game.

It's hard to believe 4H can be done by holding at the Reaper. Even applying the tactic where you fight 3 mobs instead of 4, you'll still have a tough time beating through 6 Terrorwebs and 3 Horsemen. If they all came from one side, maybe, but they're coming from two sides and there're more Terrorwebs and Skeletons (who are the deadliest creature in the UW ...) coming soon after. And Smites are already hard enough to kill with physicals, so losing more damage is unappealing.

Right now there's about a ~70-80s window between accepting the quest and the time the stalled wave hits the Reaper. It takes about 35s to kill all Terrorwebs and both Horsemen - it's actually more random than that, but 35s is usually enough to wipe out enough of the wave that you can safely pull back to Reaper. That leaves just the running time to make up for, and of course after you get back to Reaper you need to aggro the incoming mob before they hit Reaper so Reaper doesn't get Meteor Showered etc.

Can you do a feasibility test about holding at Reaper? Run something standard, but with more defense than usual. See if it's possible with some luck / micro / tactics. It doesn't have to be successful, but a close failure still means it's possible.

Can anyone confirm Outerworld's post?

And if CTT does nothing at all to Dhuum's Touch, not even reducing its frequency, then I guess I'll drop the skill. Sure it beats Star Burst and stuff, but short of that stupid time where Terrorwebs wiped me at Demon Assassin, I don't have problems with them.

PS: has anyone killed Dhuum with 7H (NM is fine) without using DP removal? If yes, how did you deal with Touch?

Yes; just make sure they have the Dhuum symbol and when they die they'll become souls.

A solution is so close I can almost taste it!!

I predict by the end of this week, someone will post a screenshot of a UW HM clear, 7H with no mercenaries and consumables. It's only a matter of time now. It may take a long time, but it will be done eventually.

The spirit of innovation lives on.

you can bring blood ritual on a hero and have them sac and die before the fight starts, outside the hall of judgement too.

If you cannot spare a skill for saccing or don't want to wait until death by vampiric weapon happens, you can even go inside the hall (not with your whole team obviously) to get the "no-rez effect" on your hero, then go fight coldfires/smites you haven't killed on the other side of Ice Wastes. The hero will become a ghost if he dies to them.

I don't remember if the teleporting to the hall option is available at the Mayor when the fight with Dhuum hasn't started yet... But heroes should teleport to you anyway I would think.

And the final frontier is conquered!



A tough 20 minute fight, and I couldn't get Gwen to die beforehand because the entire UW run I didn't get a single Vampiric weapon drop, but Dhuum got off a total of only 6 Touches (5 on Jin, which killed her ... and my micro sucks so bad I used Reversal of Death on Hayda). Killing Dhuum's skeletons don't give experience and don't remove DP, which sucks, but with only 6 Touches I survived. Judgement count was something like 3, none of which dropped party health below 50%. Dhuum dropped to near death long before Dhuum's Rest was filled, but I dared not break the status quo and let someone die, instead waiting out the remaining time.

Major credits to:

EFGJack - without him I would never have gotten started with UW. Furthermore, when I quit UW the last time Dhuum Touched me out, he got me started again. He pioneered the first viable way to clear 4H, a way that turned out to be the most effective - in fact the only way - until yesterday, when I tried something new (it worked: look ma, no Muddy Terrain ).
Life Bringing, Higher Minion, Cthon, Ungle and Xenomortis - lots of help with the different quests in UW, especially when I was just starting.
Reformed and Foxbat - for telling me about "Can't Touch This" and its effects against Dhuum.
Xslash - the new tactic I tried on 4H was partly inspired by his method of beating it.
Outerworld - despite never using it, I would've sacrificed Gwen if I could ... and possibly failed the area .
Khomet Si Netjer - although I wound up largely not using his ideas, he did suggest "Never Surrender!".
EFGJack - really, without him this clear would never have happened.
And all other various people who have helped me. Just about every semi-viable idea in this thread I have scrutinized and sometimes tried. Some worked, others failed, but in their own way I learned more and more about UW from them.

This closes the final 7H frontier. I've spent over two weeks thinking up different combinations. I've had times when I simply could not stand UW anymore, and I've had times when I was so close, but made a mistake and had to start over. It's the end of an era. Heartfelt thanks and congratulations to all involved!

geheh, nice. now I need to l2p and get done with it, too.

Congratulations.
What was the Summoning Stone? Merchant?

Yes, I always pick up all items so I need Mercantile summoning stones to clear my inventory every now and then. If I remember right this particular Merchant died in Pools, and was never in the Dhuum fight. Jin's bar is the same as Margrid's, but with Needling Shot instead of Favourable Winds. It was mostly unnecessary, however.

I'll write what I did quest-by-quest sometime.

Grats Jeydra. I am working on a similar build but I still haven't made it to Dhuum yet. (I am well prepared for him though.) Hopefully I will have some time during the weekend.

Congratulations. I'm looking forward to hearing the details.

That screenshot is impressive. How did it work? Did you hold at Reaper? You have Muddy Terrain and Barbed Trap, but if so I'm impressed that with little damage output (two Smite Monks, two PI Mesmers) you could stomp one side before the other side can get there.

Anyway ...

Unwanted Guests - I strongly advise against trying to gank any of the Keepers at the start. The monster's damage output is too high, although the Keepers can be focused down they also need to be called for that to happen. Since you're taking the quest, you won't be nearby to do the calling. Instead wait for the Vengefuls to patrol and then spike out the Keepers.

From the Labyrinth Reaper, the most threatening Keeper is the one in the middle. It's possible it aggro's onto Reaper, so kill that one first. The Aatxe WILL aggro onto any spirits left behind and then move on to Reaper, spirits that your heroes will use to kill Terrorwebs etc. The Aatxe will also aggro onto EBVAS. Try to kill your own spirits by recasting them, and try not to use EBVAS. If the Aatxe aggro on Reaper chances are very good you will fail. The Keeper at the entrance to Mountains can be killed by teleporting to Plains and approaching from the back, as can the Keepers at Wastes and Vale.

Before making a move on Keeper, micro Shelter and Displacement. If you aggro Aatxe mistakenly, hit Fall Back and scram. Set heroes to guard for this one.

4H - this is the hardest quest in the game. The new tactic I used is this: before taking quest, stall one side as normal (I just used Pain + Bloodsong) and then flag heroes directly onto one spawn on that same side. Drop spirits, set all heroes to aggressive, take quest, hit "Stand Your Ground!" and wait as long as you can. You can watch the other wave incoming. Once they get close enough, teleport to Labyrinth and back again. Time is of the essence; you will need to return just in time to take aggro before Reaper. Flag heroes apart once you get back, and put down Shelter ASAP.

Hopefully the other side will be stalled long enough with all the spirits down now. When I tried it, I couldn't wipe the un-stalled side fast enough, but one of the great advantages of all ranged characters is that I can switch targets really fast. GDW, AP, YMLAD and EBVAS meant Terrorwebs died in a few seconds when called. Spike out the monsters coming from the stalled side, and KD Star Burst / Meteor Shower with YMLAD.

Kill the Skeletons first when they show up; otherwise Terrorwebs before Horsemen.

Imprisoned Spirits - relative to 4H, this is easy. Set up spirits on the top spawn, then flag heroes apart near the bottom spawn. Set heroes to aggressive. Micro as many spirits as you can before taking quest and running down. Bottom spawn should be annihilated pretty fast. They may not be annihilated completely, but they will take casualties quickly. Once top spawn gets near, cancel flags and dive in to kill top spawn. YMLAD Star Burst if possible, and micro heals on spirits if necessary. Bottom spawn should be stalled by residual spirits at this point. Once top spawn dies, the rest of it is a straightforward fight.

Don't teleport away at once though, because there's another spawn coming. Once that spawn dies, you can leave.

Servants of Grenth - this mission is way overrated for me, and I've never failed it. Once again, before taking quest, flag heroes apart where the spawns are going to be. Micro spirits, set heroes to aggressive and take quest. Hit "Stand Your Ground!" immediately after taking quest, and you should have plenty of time to get back to team. Actually even if you don't get back to team you should be fine: I had one run where a Terrorweb broke aggro and headed for King Frozenwind, and I chased him; nobody I left behind died. I don't understand how anyone can fail this one, but I know some people have had problems ... still I haven't watched videos, so I don't know what happened.

As always call targets to force AP triggers, and flood the battlefield with EBVAS. With all ranged characters, spike power / change of targets should be easy.

Dhuum - Before going in, flag heroes #1, #2 and #3 in. Set up spirits. Get GDW up on two of the physicals. Disable Splinter Weapon, all hard resses and move them to slot #3 on the skillbar, so that if the hero dies you have Encase Skeleton disabled too. The moment Dhuum turns hostile is a dangerous moment, because he isn't knocklocked at that point and you may not be in range to KD.

Refresh Shelter and Displacemenet whenever necessary, and concentrate on getting GDW on physicals. If Dhuum summons his minions, call and kill them quickly, but save YMLAD to keep Dhuum himself frozen. The teambuild will survive Judgement, and with Displacement and Shelter up, Dhuum's attacks won't do anything. If someone gets Touched out, micro DP removal. "Stand Your Ground!" should be up almost all the time (I ran at 14 Command, using dual Superiors), to further smooth things out.

Dhuum should be KD'ed most of the time, and so no threat.

Almost the same way you did lolz, I stalled the whole west and spawnkilled east (Ghozer, he is the third from left). I tried other combinations too but I had trouble with the timing. I still fail a lot though, mostly because I forget things. I also need more snares and single target damage I think, "flooding the battlefield" with vanguard assassins is priceless.
So you spawnkill Madruk and stall Thul Za?

I played it cheap and ran Preservation and dual FoC... Anywayz, I'd like to thank Altia OYJ for providing me enough motivation to keep working on different builds.




And the whole build below



All attributes for elite skills are at 16 except for the ST, healer and I, with this build I have a 100% success rate for 4HM, SoG and Bone Pits. Medium micro and prior knowledge is required however. And Dhuum's death doesn't seal the discussion, I'm still willing to point out tips 'n tacs for quests & D.

why 2 FoC necro's and preservation if i may ask?

I was wondering the same when I woke up after a night of drinking, but I decided to go with the idea and it seemed to work really well. N/Rt healer sucks at healing though, often they have 2 spells at the ready and people are dropping like flies, Preservation counters this behavior to some extent (and Preservation can be used to stall 4HM and trigger PI on Judgment, totally worth it). And FoC and double desecrates deal a nifty amount of armor ignoring damage, although they're on a 20s cd timer but those spells combined with Splinter/AR + Surges (& Shatters) does a huge aoe burst that's enough to kill tight packs so the spells are often on recharge only when running around. Now I'm sure there are better options than what I presented here but I doubt I'm going to explore better setups any time soon.

Edit: Oh and there aren't many options if you want to fit in 2x Fall Back and FTW, and as many AE spells as possible that do NOT trigger the scatter effect. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohllI7YOJB4 - 94 second clip from the start of UW to show you that it's not as bad as you may think. And I'm totally not using AI to my advantage.

Welllll done jeydra that all i can say!!

Very well done! So much micro needed though.

really nice

is it possible to do it
-WIThout "save yourself" ?
- without any conset ?
- without micro - except some exceptionnal quests
- with crap - to none tank skill ?

It is possible to do it without SY, Cons, "crap", and without excessive micro. It's all about knowing what to do and when, and having the hero builds that can pull their weight through the various UW quests. Jeydra did not have SY or consumables other than a mercantile summoning stone which is hardly a consumable of benefit. I used SY and the only consumable I used was a bottle of Smirnoff.

EFGJack; instead of FoC, have you ever considered using pain of disenchantment? Strong spike at high curses, lower recharge, less energy. 100% health loss.

Actually, in retrospect.. Maybe not. It'd be excellent against the terrorwebs, but the mesmer mobs in the UW lack enchantments.

I use POD in areas with heavy enchantments, such as Slaver's Exile. It's not worthy to bring an elite just to whack a few spiders. Cheers for trying though.

Congrats EFGJack Looks like I had a far easier time against Dhuum with knocklock, lol.

When I did it, I stalled Ghozer + Kazhad and spawnkilled Kazhad. Teleported to Labyrinth and back just before the remaining two Horsemen got to Reaper, got back just in time to take aggro before Reaper and killed a few Terrorwebs before the survivors on the Eastern side got to Reaper. West spawn was still alive at that point, but I called and spiked out the Eastern Terrorwebs + Skeletons quickly enough to stop them from nuking Reaper.

I haven't been to the UW since I finished it, so all I can say about success rate is that I failed the very first time I tried the tactic and succeeded the second time. Nonetheless, I suspect the true failure rate to be considerable.

The FoC N/P is interesting. It has so much: AoE cover hex for AP, Stand Your Ground, one of the better hard resses in the game + the energy to use it, Fall Back, and AoE damage. Problems would include FoC being small AoE and the long cooldowns, but I've got to try it anyway ...

Yeah, Dhuum's a bitch 'cuz you have to run after him half the time and naturally you do not gain adrenaline when you cspace after him or the adds. No SY often means a hero's death. :>

EFGJack and/or Jeydra, can you possibly post the template codes for those builds (or pm them)? It would make it so much easier than trying to find all the skills .

You don't say lol, like every time I need to recover from an emergency (say, Judgement going off) I can simply hit YMLAD and buy myself 3 seconds of time; you can't hit a button and be fully charged for SY >_<

Maybe you should run a shadowstep to chase Dhuum around lol.

@skullmount4 - honestly if you don't recognize all the skills it'll be hard to do UW (technique matters a LOT more than builds in UW), but sure why not.

Razah: OACjEyiM5MXzyJGraO5GmMzxJA
Xandra: OACiAyk8gNdmhTr33czl5InA
Livia: OAhjYYgc4OnzzG5U4NMHnTuoNA <-- this is one of those bars that, if you have mercenaries, you can probably run better. Just switch to Rit primary, put in some energy management and switch out Spirit Transfer for Mend Body And Soul / Soothing Memories / some kind of heal.
Jin: OggkYZXbGHKDvG2kcPlPmWJtxxA
Margrid: OggkYZXbGHKDvG2kcPlYnHDtxxA
Hayda: OQOk8Mlr5iiU7mCWo4OWNmP2FGUD <-- Reverse Hex is not necessary, so feel free to run something else, e.g. "Go For The Eyes!"
Gwen: I don't have a template available, but the skills are Energy Surge, Unnatural Signet, Mistrust, Leech Signet, Power Drain, Cry of Frustration, Shatter Hex and Spiritual Pain, at 16 Domination + 11 Inspiration + 9 Fast Casting.

I ran Superior Channelling on Razah, Superior Communing on Xandra, no superiors on Livia, Superior Marksmanship + Major Expertise on Jin and Margrid, Superior Command and Superior Spear Mastery on Hayda and Superior Domination on Gwen. Like EFGJack, I'm a Superior rune addict lol.

Good luck if you try.

Cool. Thanks. Now it'll be less time consuming to set the builds. Only a few of the skills I've never seen, since I've never had to use them or cared about them.

hey there!
i started the mission "conquest of the underworld in HM with heroes" too and this is my contribution.



first of all you have to apologize my english if any sentence i write sounds strange or out of place. as you can see on the picture above i was not able to fight dhuum in this run because of a certain blackout my heroes had while i was balling all the dryders from the Servants of Grenth quest. i had them all in the right place and i called my heroes to finish them of (i guess there where about 10-15 dryders) and i was hoping my mesmer heroes where able to interupt their fire spells appropriate but well, i was wrong. my whole group behind me was meteor showered into oblivion but here comes the fun fact! you ask yourself how did he get to dhuum with his heroes dead and all the dryders still alive. if your heroes can't get the job done make space for Mr. Reaper of the Ice Wastes. it's kinda unbelievable but it really happened. The Reaper of the Ice Wastes killed all the dryders with his crappy skillbar and so i was able to visit Mr. Dhuum in his chambers.

So that's for the funny stuff that happened in this run . now lets talk about the build i used and how i managed to survive all the other trials in the underworld. lets begin with the most annoying quest the underworld has to offer: the 4 horsemen. most important fact of this quest is: you cant fight them all at the monument at the same time. many of you already figured that out and so i adjusted my skillbar almost completely to this quest. so what is so special about that skillbar? you can tank one side on your own even with two Skeletons of Dhuum draining your health like sh**. the secret is you have to wear a low armor suit. i used a 25 armor suit and while tanking you also have to cast the 5 energy enchantment (i used Way of Perfection the other skill would be Way of the Master) so normal attack damage from dryders gets reduced to nearly zero and with this tactic you are able to stand there until your heroes finish the other side of the monument.

in order that your heroes are able to survive their encounter i located pretty good flag positions for them (sorry i only have a sketch of the hero flagging for now):



i tested really often to get this tactic to work and my heroes got 4 out of 5 successful attempts at defeating their side. the only thing i micro manage is the spirit of pain before taking quest as you can see on the sketch and the protective spirits from Xandra (shelter, displacement, armor of unfeeling and so on...). you have to manage the protective spirits while you are tanking on pits side so watch out for your skills too . I engage one rider of dhuum when it stops near the banished dream rider on the hill on pits side (you can aggro him too). When you aggro'ed the rider it's the best time to mirco manage Xandras spirits. As soon as the heros engage in battle they will automatically use their skills (and spirits). I always have set them to "guard".

So when one side is finished you slowly fall back to this sharp curve on pits side and flag your heroes in range to finish the other group. Be cautious, Skeletons of Dhuum are now attacking you and you have to spam Spirit Bond on recharge. Also you have to cast shadow form on recharge so riders wont disable it. Doesnt sound easy right? as always, practice makes perfect. Here's a pic of a finished 4 horses quest:



Well, now that we have done this awful quest we can go to the more "easy" quests right? wroooong . i can tell you, there are hundrets of things that can go wrong in this bloody god forsaken place. the thing is, almost everything you encounter can kill you and your heroes in an instant. For example: pulling too much dryders in pools, getting too much aggro in pits (feast of corruption godlike spike), pulling freak&"$%! 4 skeletons of dhuum (also pits) without a f***ing wall between you and them (3 is also almost overkill if mesmer heroes fail to interupt them), flagging your heroes wrong while under attack of Vengeful Aatxes, Spirits getting aggro from a returning group of Vengeful Aatxes which your heroes put up while killing a lured group of dryders, leading them directly to your group near the Lab Reaper and so on...

Oh yeah, Vengeful Aatxes... In my opinion, Unwanted Guests is the most time consuming quest in the whole game. There are 4 Keeper of Souls which you can't reach from any direction without alerting Vengeful Aatxes or dryders or what else there is. I tried it 3 times and 2 times i failed (see my text above) and the 3rd time it also almost ended in a disaster. You have to be super carefull to pull dryders or keepers while Vengeful Aatxes patrol around but in the end i managed to lure the Vengeful Aatxes so far away from there original patrol routes that they got stuck far away from my paper skin heroes (thanks to my imba tank skills). and yes, i also planned to tank dhuum with this skillbar. Two of my heores, Razah and Xandra should be transformed into ghosts so i can manually remove death penalty if dhuum touches me and to keep dhuum at my position i'm going to wear my 25 armor suit (enemy AI always goes for targets with lowest health and armor... well i hope this works for dhuum too ^^). To counter dhuum's aoe spell i hope i can micro manage Ward against Harm from Zhed. The spawned minions should be quick taken care of with my SS necro and Ineptitude mesmer. To damage dhuum himself it will take a while but i hope my two ghost heroes can do the job with "Ghostly Fury" when Dhuums Rest is filled. It should be the same as with an e/mo tanking dhuum except i'm a little worried about the healing when i'm hexed with Weight of Dhuum. With Razah, my psychic instability mesmer gone who has the only hex remove i'm not sure if i can stand those 5 seconds before the hex wears off. Maybe i change wastrel's demise with shatter hex on Gwen and Razah. Another thing of course is, will my heroes stay in the Ward when Dhuum uses his aoe spell or when a few minions loose aggro and run into my hero group. Questions over questions but dont worry, if my build works i will post it here

Last but not least, i mentioned something about "easy" quests some time ago . Well, i have to admit there are indeed a few quests which are totally easy with the set of skills i use. For example: Imprisioned Spirits and Servants of Grenth. Here the skill Shadow of Haste comes in handy. With it you can teleport over great distances and be at the place of action in no time. In Imprisioned Spirits you can teleport down to the legde where you can lure the incoming enmies with a longbow away from the Tortured Spirits which you have to protect. So your heroes only have to cover the small way where only 3 enemies spawn. In Servants of Grenth you can teleport down where the enmies spawn and tank all of them except the skeletons of dhuum (not because you can't tank them but they will run to the reaper instead of the Ice King and thats the place where your heroes will be waiting for them). The only disadvantage of this tactic is you cant kill anything so you have to call your heroes to do the job which could include an instant fire death by ~15 angry dryders.

I guess that's it. Everything is said about my build and tactics. Of course i have to honor my heroes too to do such a great Job. They can defend themselves against 9 Mindblade Spectres completly on their own. You only have to flag them a little apart so the dont get hexed with clumsiness all at once. Otherwise you can just simply sit and watch. They have total control of small groups of casters and melee enemies also get beaten up by Spitful Spirit and Ineptitude. They can defeat one half of the riders of dhuum with a little help from above (4 wins out of 5 tries) on their own.

Finally i wanna give a few hints on hero skills that you should watch in certain areas and a few tips when to wear the 25 armor suit. Everytime when there are hard hitting enemies around and you dont want them to swarm your heroes you can put your 25 armor suit on and you will noticed that they will always swarm you first (until their health drops and they start to scatter). It is very helpful againts smite crawlers. You dont want them to rush into your group and getting hexed so they can use their smite hex and zealot fire (you get pretty much owned). Zhed has a very useful skill against melee figthers (Frozen Burst) to slow them down but you should deactive it when fighting against caster enemies otherwise he will try to run in range and try to use this skill (possibilty of more aggro from other groups or enemy scatter). Just keep an eye on that skill and deactivate it if necessary. At the very end just a tip when doing the quest in vale. Don't pop all the spirits in vale so you can't get kicked out of the underworld even if all the visible spirits die in the vale quest "Wrathful Spirits" (the friendly spirits pop if you kill Grasping Darkness popups that are scattered around the vale area. stay on the right side of vale so you won't pop them all). When fighting Tortured Spirits deactivate all useless hexes from mesmer so they wont drain themselves (Tortured Spirits have half hex and condition duration). Now i'm finished. Make the best out of it

With kind regards
Kelloggs

edit: big news update!

here comes the grand finale! dhuum is history! the underworld is finally conquered (in my way )!



to be honest, the way i finished dhuum was not the way i explained before in my previous text. As you can see on the screen above i transformed Norgu and Gwen into spirits so they can remove my death penalty. It was the right decision because i wanted Zhed with his Ward, Xandra with her protective Spirits and Razah with his hex remove to play it safe while fighting dhuum. Unfortunately Zhed died in that encounter after a while and without Zhed or Xandra i would have been raped easily. There was also a moment where i nearly got spiked to death because i didnt have Spirit Bond on me and two times Dhuum lost aggro on me but he didnt manage to kill any other hero except Zhed. The greatest problem was as i mentioned in my previous text: As soon as heroes start getting damage they run into every direction instead of staying in their safe spot inside the Ward against Harm. Also i think Razah did a great job at interupting dhuum's aoe spell because you fairly saw it happening.

I put a not to underestimating amount of effort in this project but in the end it was totally worth it. i'm very proud with me at this moment . Here is a photo album on imageshack of me doing some of the quests, tanking, hero flagging and so on. Underworld madness

have a good day and see you ingame

Kelloggs, over and out