I'd rather have her slow my entire group down than end up fighting everything in a dungeon with only 7 people, which frequently happens if I don't. >_> (See why I don't like MMs)
Wind Prayers isn't particularly necessary, it's just something I keep for Lyssa's Haste, which is actually pretty useful (Heroes also interrupt well with it). You're not going to be doing any fantastic Barbs or MoP combos, so I usually figure I might as well get the most I can out of the increased recharge -, and there's very few scythe attacks at 7 scythe mastery that will compare to banishing strike at 15+ Mysticism (can only afford the space for one). It's completely possible to just use Earth Prayers though.
Not to mention that using this skill makes having points in scythe mastery much less relevant.
Dwaynaway - A HM build with minimal skill needed.
LexTalionis
majoho
Well the last part is a pretty good point.
LexTalionis
Er, you do know Order of Pain doesn't work with Avatar of Dwayna, right? ^^;
If you want the healing from Mystic Healing, it might be easier just to use a removal skill like Signet of Pious Light. Does almost as much healing as Mystic Healing with the enchantment removal alone.
If you want the healing from Mystic Healing, it might be easier just to use a removal skill like Signet of Pious Light. Does almost as much healing as Mystic Healing with the enchantment removal alone.
AcousticMeanie
Quote:
Originally Posted by LexTalionis
Er, you do know Order of Pain doesn't work with Avatar of Dwayna, right? ^^;
If you want the healing from Mystic Healing, it might be easier just to use a removal skill like Signet of Pious Light. Does almost as much healing as Mystic Healing with the enchantment removal alone. I assume this is in reference to my post. I treat both my Orders and Prot Dervs as casters not melee and as such am not trying to capitalize on Orders with them. In a caster group you obviously wouldn't need Orders which is why I indicated that two Prot Dervs work equally as well.
I was simply agreeing with you that an IMBA works well with this setup and was suggesting that turning one into an Order's Derv will provide a similar amount of healing without having to tinker with builds too much.
If you want the healing from Mystic Healing, it might be easier just to use a removal skill like Signet of Pious Light. Does almost as much healing as Mystic Healing with the enchantment removal alone. I assume this is in reference to my post. I treat both my Orders and Prot Dervs as casters not melee and as such am not trying to capitalize on Orders with them. In a caster group you obviously wouldn't need Orders which is why I indicated that two Prot Dervs work equally as well.
I was simply agreeing with you that an IMBA works well with this setup and was suggesting that turning one into an Order's Derv will provide a similar amount of healing without having to tinker with builds too much.
Zhel
Thought I'd go ahead and post and thank you for the ideas and detailed discussions here! I've been trying to find a healer/set of healers that I liked for a physical team (main is a dervish), and after reading through this thread the last week or so, tweaked and highly enjoyed the dwayna build here!
Not perfect and still playing around with a few skills here and there, but with this I have the dwayna, a smiter to help single target healing, and 3 physicals to take advantage of the physical specific buffs.
MoD spam; All out, 10 BFs:
I've run this through the last few days worth of zaishen vanquishes, zaishen missions in Prophecies, Arachni dungeon, and Raisu Palace just now:
Relatively new still (purchased late October, didn't play December-February), so don't know if that's a good time, let alone the most efficient way through the map (flipping to the wiki page alot lol). Only death on the run was myself though, over-extended from party once.
Notes so far:
-Most deaths I've had occurred from ignorance mainly. Charging in, not knowing mob abilities (oozes in Arachni gave me trouble), over-aggroing, etc. Usually myself or the Panic Necro that die first. Dwayna and Paragon are usually last. =D
-Except for heavy energy degen mobs, Meditation seems overkill. I tend to forget to cast it while running/manually spamming enchants, and she never drops in energy with such a high Mysticism.
My build is missing enchant removal, light on interrupts, and I'm not completely sold on the BM/Barrage Ranger. Haven't tried it yet, but thinking a Me/Rt Panic/healer instead of the Smiter might fix some of that? Not sure what would be better than the Ranger, and still be a physical hero. Any suggestions would be great from more experienced players.
Again, thanks for the ideas and dwayna build. ^.^
Not perfect and still playing around with a few skills here and there, but with this I have the dwayna, a smiter to help single target healing, and 3 physicals to take advantage of the physical specific buffs.
MoD spam; All out, 10 BFs:
I've run this through the last few days worth of zaishen vanquishes, zaishen missions in Prophecies, Arachni dungeon, and Raisu Palace just now:
Relatively new still (purchased late October, didn't play December-February), so don't know if that's a good time, let alone the most efficient way through the map (flipping to the wiki page alot lol). Only death on the run was myself though, over-extended from party once.
Notes so far:
-Most deaths I've had occurred from ignorance mainly. Charging in, not knowing mob abilities (oozes in Arachni gave me trouble), over-aggroing, etc. Usually myself or the Panic Necro that die first. Dwayna and Paragon are usually last. =D
-Except for heavy energy degen mobs, Meditation seems overkill. I tend to forget to cast it while running/manually spamming enchants, and she never drops in energy with such a high Mysticism.
My build is missing enchant removal, light on interrupts, and I'm not completely sold on the BM/Barrage Ranger. Haven't tried it yet, but thinking a Me/Rt Panic/healer instead of the Smiter might fix some of that? Not sure what would be better than the Ranger, and still be a physical hero. Any suggestions would be great from more experienced players.
Again, thanks for the ideas and dwayna build. ^.^
LexTalionis
@AcousticMeanie: It had nothing to do with you, the post I was replying to seems to have been deleted. Don't worry about it.
thetwistedboy
@Zhel, If you drop some DF on your smiting monk as well as maybe reversal of damage, you could fit in another splinter weapon to put your dps on mobs up even higher. Other than that, I really like your team. I'd also recommend binding panic to some key and tossing it out on a mob rather than letting the hero use it freewill
Honestly I'm thrilled with this entire thread. I love seeing differences from the stupid S/D/Mway stuff.
I really like the Dwayna healer build. It really counters full party pressure and degen like a boss. My only beef with it is that it can't tale spike damage and ST spirits go down really fast in HM... so I've been kinda needing to bring another healer with some more direct heals...
Honestly I'm thrilled with this entire thread. I love seeing differences from the stupid S/D/Mway stuff.
I really like the Dwayna healer build. It really counters full party pressure and degen like a boss. My only beef with it is that it can't tale spike damage and ST spirits go down really fast in HM... so I've been kinda needing to bring another healer with some more direct heals...
LexTalionis
You can do a few things to alleviate the spike damage problem, here's a non-comprehensive list of what I've tried:
Remove Displacement (and Union) and just use Aegis chains.
Spec about 5-6 Restoration on the ST Ritualist for Spirit Light (Also lets you use Pure was Li Ming, which is very nice indeed).
Find a place for Spirit Bond (not recommended on the ST Rit).
Put low spec Infuse Health on another character (not more than 1).
Use Spirit to Flesh (not recommended when using BiP).
Drop Soul Twisting and just use an ER Prot (Difficult to manage on some strong elementalist groups).
By the by, Rupture Soul and Spirit to Flesh aren't that bad. The blind duration is really helpful and they won't randomly kill spirits if it would produce no effect. ST Destruction bomber Ritualists are actually pretty strong (can do a 70% nearby AoE nuke + 12 sec Blind just by themselves), but unfortunately, the hero AI won't drop Destruction in the middle of enemies. Using melee weapons on them to force it produces pretty mixed results...
Remove Displacement (and Union) and just use Aegis chains.
Spec about 5-6 Restoration on the ST Ritualist for Spirit Light (Also lets you use Pure was Li Ming, which is very nice indeed).
Find a place for Spirit Bond (not recommended on the ST Rit).
Put low spec Infuse Health on another character (not more than 1).
Use Spirit to Flesh (not recommended when using BiP).
Drop Soul Twisting and just use an ER Prot (Difficult to manage on some strong elementalist groups).
By the by, Rupture Soul and Spirit to Flesh aren't that bad. The blind duration is really helpful and they won't randomly kill spirits if it would produce no effect. ST Destruction bomber Ritualists are actually pretty strong (can do a 70% nearby AoE nuke + 12 sec Blind just by themselves), but unfortunately, the hero AI won't drop Destruction in the middle of enemies. Using melee weapons on them to force it produces pretty mixed results...
North Devon Dog
I can't really help the caster chap for foundry, I was using Light Sig and SY combo and switched my ranger to sword.
Your Mesmer set-up it vital in the areas with lots of Ele AoE. Panic is a must and your dervish heroes can help enemies ball. I also find a Keystone mesmer much better than an Illusion Mes in Foundry. Ran Forgewright HM without Keystone and had some nasty wipes when I got bad agro. Obviously I didn't have such a good SY spam there either.
Probably not gonna help but in summary mesmers are the key to Foundry HM
Your Mesmer set-up it vital in the areas with lots of Ele AoE. Panic is a must and your dervish heroes can help enemies ball. I also find a Keystone mesmer much better than an Illusion Mes in Foundry. Ran Forgewright HM without Keystone and had some nasty wipes when I got bad agro. Obviously I didn't have such a good SY spam there either.
Probably not gonna help but in summary mesmers are the key to Foundry HM
Tigerspottin
I appreciate that this post will not be anywhere near as technical and analytical of some of the esteemed pre-posters, but as a new player to GW (6 weeks in) I just wanted to say a BIG! thank you for posting this 7 hero team, as having created it (*with the exception of one of the rits which I am yet to unlock), I have spent the last few hours sitting in front of my laptop and laughing at just how easily I am running through areas!
OK, I know that perhaps says more about my inexperience and previous builds, but nonetheless, I salute you for educating me, and for giving me a whole new set of areas to explore confidently.
On another point, I mentioned that I can't yet use the second Rit as I haven't unlocked it. Can anyone recommend an alternative until I complete nightfall?
If it helps, I play an SS Nec/Mo and that is my only character at this time.
Thanks in advance for any pearls of wisdom!
OK, I know that perhaps says more about my inexperience and previous builds, but nonetheless, I salute you for educating me, and for giving me a whole new set of areas to explore confidently.
On another point, I mentioned that I can't yet use the second Rit as I haven't unlocked it. Can anyone recommend an alternative until I complete nightfall?
If it helps, I play an SS Nec/Mo and that is my only character at this time.
Thanks in advance for any pearls of wisdom!
LexTalionis
No problem~ You're most welcome, and I'm glad you're having success with it!
If you haven't got Razah yet, I'd recommend you use a simple ER Protection Prayers Hero to substitute for the Soul Twisting Ritualist - Vekk or Acolyte Sousuke will work nicely. The build can easily be found on PvXwiki.
If you haven't got Razah yet, I'd recommend you use a simple ER Protection Prayers Hero to substitute for the Soul Twisting Ritualist - Vekk or Acolyte Sousuke will work nicely. The build can easily be found on PvXwiki.
Anaraky
I've been using a similar setup adjusted to my Warrior to great effect. 1xSmiter, 2xDwaynas, 1xOoU MM, 1xPanic Mesmer, 1xSoS support/healer, 1xST. The damage is respectable when the MM gets rolling and it has a very heavy defence, allowing me to steamroll almost everything with little consideration. The only thing that seems to be a threat is if a heavy caster spike catches me off-guard. I rather enjoy playing this kind of setup because while the team is very defensive overall you can play very aggressively, constantly pulling groups and focusing on spiking their casters while the minions and the spirits deal with whoever tries to get to my backline.
Also, great to see that people are experimenting with something other then the usual. Kudos to the OP.
Also, great to see that people are experimenting with something other then the usual. Kudos to the OP.
CE Devilman
dervish heros are not good to keep enegy..
this way the get a littel back ..
hunter
throwing down 3 hero dervishes in there is a complete waste because of the melee AI which is complete garbage. The max you can have is a single Dwaynas healer which is there to heal mainly, and not do dmg (which it does as secondary)
You have 2 discord necros with 3 physicals, no dedicated healer, no SoH, and no splinter. I would say your build is complete trash.
I can vanquish zones with 2 skills on each hero bar and no skills on my main. Those vanquish screenshots prove nothing
You have 2 discord necros with 3 physicals, no dedicated healer, no SoH, and no splinter. I would say your build is complete trash.
I can vanquish zones with 2 skills on each hero bar and no skills on my main. Those vanquish screenshots prove nothing
gw_poster
mugen
doesnt deserv a quote, but look again screenshot and count some stuff again / who is the player & heroes / where is hiding splinter + many usefull pve skills : (mass minion /3* speed / melee + fire + they on fire./ high heal potential...)
I would say your build is complete trash -> one thing is certain : your comment IS.
I would say your build is complete trash -> one thing is certain : your comment IS.
Jeydra
Quote:
Originally Posted by gw_poster
SS or it didn't happen...
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/w...t10477511.html
Maybe it's time to bump that thread ...
Maybe it's time to bump that thread ...
hunter
Quote:
Originally Posted by gw_poster
SS or it didn't happen...
at OP: I've been reading through the thread, I plan to try this on my derv heros as they (and most others) have basically never had much play since sabway came along! Nice to see the creativity going into your builds. GJ http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/e...t10480483.html
This good enough for ya?
at OP: I've been reading through the thread, I plan to try this on my derv heros as they (and most others) have basically never had much play since sabway came along! Nice to see the creativity going into your builds. GJ http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/e...t10480483.html
This good enough for ya?
Mike Jack
Actually, the bars consist of 3-5 skills.
Anaraky
Quote:
Originally Posted by majoho
Just take the concept into consideration, this is meant basically for afk play it is not the fastest or best team far from it, but it's safe and allows for mistakes.
If you don't have a bad connection you can do better than this.
(and this is in no way a jab at the build because I think it's quite awesome). Agreed.
While the 2xDwaynas+ST rit concept is great in the areas with a moderate difficulty I feel it falls behind in the harder areas due to the fact that it is kinda unpredictable versus high spikes and high pressure. Most of the time it is fine but every once in a while the ST spirits are down for a second and you don't get ticks from the Dwaynas dervs someone tends to die. In areas without high pressure or with frail monsters this isn't a problem however.
My 2c.
If you don't have a bad connection you can do better than this.
(and this is in no way a jab at the build because I think it's quite awesome). Agreed.
While the 2xDwaynas+ST rit concept is great in the areas with a moderate difficulty I feel it falls behind in the harder areas due to the fact that it is kinda unpredictable versus high spikes and high pressure. Most of the time it is fine but every once in a while the ST spirits are down for a second and you don't get ticks from the Dwaynas dervs someone tends to die. In areas without high pressure or with frail monsters this isn't a problem however.
My 2c.
shaygo
Quote:
Originally Posted by LexTalionis
Remove Displacement (and Union) and just use Aegis chains.
Spec about 5-6 Restoration on the ST Ritualist for Spirit Light (Also lets you use Pure was Li Ming, which is very nice indeed).
Find a place for Spirit Bond (not recommended on the ST Rit).
Put low spec Infuse Health on another character (not more than 1).
Use Spirit to Flesh (not recommended when using BiP).
Drop Soul Twisting and just use an ER Prot (Difficult to manage on some strong elementalist groups).
By the by, Rupture Soul and Spirit to Flesh aren't that bad. The blind duration is really helpful and they won't randomly kill spirits if it would produce no effect. ST Destruction bomber Ritualists are actually pretty strong (can do a 70% nearby AoE nuke + 12 sec Blind just by themselves), but unfortunately, the hero AI won't drop Destruction in the middle of enemies. Using melee weapons on them to force it produces pretty mixed results... I've managed the spikes in the foundry until I met the Fury's group
any tips on dealing with that group ?
Anaraky
hunter
Quote:
Originally Posted by mugen
doesnt deserv a quote, but look again screenshot and count some stuff again / who is the player & heroes / where is hiding splinter + many usefull pve skills : (mass minion /3* speed / melee + fire + they on fire./ high heal potential...)
I would say your build is complete trash -> one thing is certain : your comment IS. Guess i missed this one:
No ST--> No shelter and/or union = Losing the equivalent of party wide prot spirit and and shielding hands
Splinter weapon on a non rit primary, namely a paragon. Most likely the channeling attribute won't reach past 10, which again is completely subpar when compared to a splinter weapon from a 16 channeling
Discord combined with 3x melee dervishes and a PI mesmer. Doesn't take a genius to figure out its not the most optimal combination. Its original and it works, but not the best build.
So ya, the build is bad, doesn't mean it can't beat HM PVE because as i pointed out a few posts ago, you only need like 2 kills on each hero to beat PVE.
I would say your build is complete trash -> one thing is certain : your comment IS. Guess i missed this one:
No ST--> No shelter and/or union = Losing the equivalent of party wide prot spirit and and shielding hands
Splinter weapon on a non rit primary, namely a paragon. Most likely the channeling attribute won't reach past 10, which again is completely subpar when compared to a splinter weapon from a 16 channeling
Discord combined with 3x melee dervishes and a PI mesmer. Doesn't take a genius to figure out its not the most optimal combination. Its original and it works, but not the best build.
So ya, the build is bad, doesn't mean it can't beat HM PVE because as i pointed out a few posts ago, you only need like 2 kills on each hero to beat PVE.
Dzjudz
hunter, just keep in mind that this is not just an inefficient build, but that it is not meant to be an efficient one in the first place (which is why it isn't vetted on pvx for example).
Aria Frost
Quote:
Originally Posted by LexTalionis
Usage: Set hero to Passive.
It seems that the dwayna healer is not meant to deal damage... however I still haven't tried this build, so maybe I'm wrong.
Daesu
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aria Frost
It seems that the dwayna healer is not meant to deal damage... however I still haven't tried this build, so maybe I'm wrong.
I heard heroes dont really like to use OOU. Somehow I am not convinced a scythe wielding passive healer is a better healer than its alternatives.
hunter
About the "Avoid Combat" issue. I was running a variant with Banishing strike so i figured i might as well make her do dmg. Id i set on passive and run a more defensive variant yeah its fine but its such a waste... This build has such potential to be a "warrior healer" type of thing.
I will keep playing around with it. If you have minions in play and with some careful pulling it works better. But if you only have spirits, don't even think of running the hero on defensive, he will die.
I will keep playing around with it. If you have minions in play and with some careful pulling it works better. But if you only have spirits, don't even think of running the hero on defensive, he will die.
shanaya
I've been using the 'original' Dwaynaway team build, as per the first post here, to work on my EOTN title. This has meant vanquishing/mapping all EOTN areas and now working my way through HM missions. It is a good build for me because I have the same intermittent connection problem as the OP, and so far the build has proved effective. I had a bit of bother with the burning spirits in Sacnoth Valley but other than that its been a smooth C-space experience. Still got the HM dungeons to do.
Elad Agilaz
I have no problems with bumping up this post, been using it the same as the above poster for vanquishing eotn areas and it is working beautifully. The dwayna healer is really good.
Thinking how to best condense the team down to 6 heros to take a guildie along on vanqs or even down to 5 heros on those annoying nf missions that require a specific hero without losing the core functionality of the build.
Thinking how to best condense the team down to 6 heros to take a guildie along on vanqs or even down to 5 heros on those annoying nf missions that require a specific hero without losing the core functionality of the build.
LexTalionis
Few quick notes on the thread:
BiP isn't necessary at all if you have good energy management and if you're not abusing Mesmer Fast Casting. There's plenty of good alternatives if you work fine without it. I just find it easy to combine with a minion master and slightly more useful (this is opinion) than Aura of the Lich or Jagged.
Yes, the pure Dwayna healer isn't meant to do damage at all. Warrior healer specs work fine for plenty of areas, but there's times when you really REALLY do not want your Dwayna dervishes to be running into melee and aggroing half the map, like the ToPK. I prefer the melee version in areas with large clumps of melee enemies that will bunch up nicely for splinter weapon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elad Agilaz
BiP isn't necessary at all if you have good energy management and if you're not abusing Mesmer Fast Casting. There's plenty of good alternatives if you work fine without it. I just find it easy to combine with a minion master and slightly more useful (this is opinion) than Aura of the Lich or Jagged.
Yes, the pure Dwayna healer isn't meant to do damage at all. Warrior healer specs work fine for plenty of areas, but there's times when you really REALLY do not want your Dwayna dervishes to be running into melee and aggroing half the map, like the ToPK. I prefer the melee version in areas with large clumps of melee enemies that will bunch up nicely for splinter weapon.
Quote:
I have no problems with bumping up this post, been using it the same as the above poster for vanquishing eotn areas and it is working beautifully. The dwayna healer is really good.
Thinking how to best condense the team down to 6 heros to take a guildie along on vanqs or even down to 5 heros on those annoying nf missions that require a specific hero without losing the core functionality of the build. Compression isn't too difficult using the pure healer build. Frankly speaking, it only takes 1 Dwayna healer to cover for the entire team, with an additional spot healer if you're paranoid (usually a rit). If you want to reduce the team down to bare basics, this is what I do for 4 person areas:
-Yourself (Do whatever you want)
-Dwayna healer
-Some form of mitigation (Ideally with Aegis for less micro)
-Some form of damage
Usually, I'll do this:
-Mitigation = Minion master with Dwayna's Sorrow or Aegis. Both are excellent fodder for Release and Minions do a lot of damage in lowman areas.
-Damage = Domination mesmer.
With 6 person areas, use a full-time prot (instead of/with) the MM and you can pretty much bring anyone you want on the 6th (or 5th). AoD tends to steamroll White Mantle in WiK largely because their usual monk counters (hexes) can't really deal with it.
Frankly, for low-man areas, it might be wiser to just use the scythe variant and go with a Channeling/SoS ritualist instead of the Domination mesmer. I've vanquished all of the 4 person areas in Ascalon using 2 AoD melee dervishes and a SoS channeling rit.
Thanks for the feedback, I appreciate it.
Thinking how to best condense the team down to 6 heros to take a guildie along on vanqs or even down to 5 heros on those annoying nf missions that require a specific hero without losing the core functionality of the build. Compression isn't too difficult using the pure healer build. Frankly speaking, it only takes 1 Dwayna healer to cover for the entire team, with an additional spot healer if you're paranoid (usually a rit). If you want to reduce the team down to bare basics, this is what I do for 4 person areas:
-Yourself (Do whatever you want)
-Dwayna healer
-Some form of mitigation (Ideally with Aegis for less micro)
-Some form of damage
Usually, I'll do this:
-Mitigation = Minion master with Dwayna's Sorrow or Aegis. Both are excellent fodder for Release and Minions do a lot of damage in lowman areas.
-Damage = Domination mesmer.
With 6 person areas, use a full-time prot (instead of/with) the MM and you can pretty much bring anyone you want on the 6th (or 5th). AoD tends to steamroll White Mantle in WiK largely because their usual monk counters (hexes) can't really deal with it.
Frankly, for low-man areas, it might be wiser to just use the scythe variant and go with a Channeling/SoS ritualist instead of the Domination mesmer. I've vanquished all of the 4 person areas in Ascalon using 2 AoD melee dervishes and a SoS channeling rit.
Thanks for the feedback, I appreciate it.