I have read many threads regarding hero builds about elite x being crappy because there are better options or about build y being superior because it can clear mobs efficiently. The argument seems to always end up with: If you think you can do better, run your build and see if it's faster.
Although equating fast with good is arguable (I, for one, do not agree and I'm of the opinion that most players have their own set of criteria for a good build, and being fast is just one of them, but let's not debate that here), running time is an objective and quantifiable measure. So for the sake of future comparisons, I propose that we have a set of benchmarks to judge how fast a build is.
To develop the benchmarks, I propose we do the following:
1) Choose about 3 to 5 vanq/missions/dungeons as the benchmarks.
2) For each chosen area, get a few establish players to run through them with their solid builds to determine what constitutes an excellent completion time (speed clear removed, see post #23). Consumables are not allowed of course.
Once we have the excellent completion time, in the future, anyone wishing to claim to have an efficient build only need to post the times for completing these areas. Small tweaking of a few skills for each area is allowed.
For the areas to be representative of PvE contents
1) Ideally, the chosen areas should be a mix of vanquishing, missions, dungeons, and maybe one high-end elite area. Completing them should preferably take less than one hour.
2) If an area is chosen to be vanquished, to reduce the luck factor, the mobs should have a narrow patrol area so that the area can be vanquished surely in a systematic way without missing any mobs.
3) If a mission/dungeon is chosen, mob skipping using running skill is not allowed. One can go in the path of least mobs but all mobs encountered must be killed before moving on.
4) The areas should have a wide enough variety of foes.
5) At least one area should feature extended fights (high hp boss, extra huge group of mobs, etc.).
6) At least one area should have pop-ups.
7) Any other suggestions?
If everyone agrees, we can start with the nominations for vanq/missions/dungeons/high-end area.
Rules for valid completion time
1) You're supposed to complete the area in the normal way by killing all foes encountered.
1) No consumables are allowed.
2) Tactics like mob-skipping, using necrotic traversal to skip a large section of the area, etc. are not allowed.
3) To avoid trolling about your build, you can choose to blank out your skill bars. But if an area allows for certain tactics to be used, the relevant player and heroes skill bars must be shown to show that the tactics are not used.
4) Video submissions are not required but one with it are preferred.
5) To encourage participation, if you completed an area not in the benchmarks list, it can still be submitted, and I will include the times for reference and future use.
Finally, let me repeat this: This is not a speed clear contest. It is about finding what constitutes an excellent time for completing an area to serve as a basis for future build comparison. You can view this as an effort to establish what is the equivalent of Faction Missions Master's Reward time for the chosen area in the 7-hero era.
As such, since no video submission is required, if you want to cheat by doing mob-skipping, exploit tactics, etc. by all means you can do it, but there won't be a prize nor a hall of fame for it. At the end of the day, only a cutoff time is going to be shown. For instance, if you submit a 7 minutes completion time for Majesty's Rest, you have my thanks for participating, but the established cutoff time of 10 mins will not be changed, unless sufficient people do it to show that 7 minutes is not an extreme outlier.
Areas chosen and the corresponding excellent completion time
1) Majesty's Rest --- <10 mins.
Note: Majesty's Rest is biased towards single-target damage (most groups of foes are 1-3 each), stress test and endurance (Rotscale with 20k hp, and tough group of accompanying mobs)
2) Vloxen's Excavations --- <25 mins
3) Tombs of the Primeval Kings --- (not final) <33 mins
4) ??
5) ??
Areas not in benchmarks list with submissions
1) Bloodstone Caves --- 13 mins
My special thanks to the people who have participated so far:
EFGJack, LexTalionis, Mugen, Essence Snow, traeskapa, Dzjudz
Benchmarks for hero builds
heavenlight
Improvavel
Times will always favor cannon glass builds.
One thing time of completion doesn't show is completion/failure rate.
One thing time of completion doesn't show is completion/failure rate.
Spiritz
if i can add a humourous comment - make no5 vq of err the zone with rotscale - hes got a huge amount of hp - that would be worth seeing results for
timbo_3101
A worthwhile thread, thank you 
However, when this was proposed recently on GWguru, there were one or two clear winners; many other players who had criticised them were subsequently silent, presumably because their builds/techniques/ability were not the equal of their negative statements and personal opinions.
Rotscale is said to have around 20,000hp; Duncan is said to have around 50,000hp. Just a light comment, but just two Rt heroes are required (as per spiritway, either h/h or 7h team) to kill Duncan HM in approximately 2min, with the human player contributing the occasional YMLaD or FH. (Credit to Jeydra for popularising this technique from his elementalist-based thread.)
However, when this was proposed recently on GWguru, there were one or two clear winners; many other players who had criticised them were subsequently silent, presumably because their builds/techniques/ability were not the equal of their negative statements and personal opinions.
Rotscale is said to have around 20,000hp; Duncan is said to have around 50,000hp. Just a light comment, but just two Rt heroes are required (as per spiritway, either h/h or 7h team) to kill Duncan HM in approximately 2min, with the human player contributing the occasional YMLaD or FH. (Credit to Jeydra for popularising this technique from his elementalist-based thread.)
hunter
Clear speed does not show consistency and does not prove overall efficiency of builds
Speed clears for certain areas will favor specific hero builds (ie frozen soil and/or holy dmg) which go against the concept of a benchmark for a hero build.
What you are asking is a general build for heroes that can work anywhere. Looking for clear speeds goes against that.
Speed clears for certain areas will favor specific hero builds (ie frozen soil and/or holy dmg) which go against the concept of a benchmark for a hero build.
What you are asking is a general build for heroes that can work anywhere. Looking for clear speeds goes against that.
heavenlight
My motivation to start the thread is
1) I'm sick and tired of hearing people say "When I run my build z, everything just explodes and I faceroll through pve contents" without solid numbers backing up their claim. Just think about how much more credible EFGJack's claim about his build will be if he provides run times for the zones he tested his build at.
2) At the same time, I'm sure many forum lurkers are curious how their hero builds compare to other players.
To the posts above, that's why I mentioned I don't agree with equating fast with good since there are other criteria like reliability. But fast is definitely one criteria to judge the worthiness of a build.
So I repeat here: My sole point here is to provide a point of comparison for judging how fast a build is and I do not care about other factors that are hard to measure.
The suggestion of having a few areas is so that it is representative of PvE content. At the same time, tactics/luck should be eliminated/reduced to be as objective as possible.
The point of having speedclears to each specific area is so that we can judge how much extra time is needed for the build. The extra time needed should provide enough info for the players to weigh the risk/reward factor of running the build.
To be clear, let me illustrate with an example. Suppose the 5 chosen areas are Shards of Orr, Hell's Precipice (bonus required), Morostav Trail, Majesty Rest, and Vloxen's Excavations and the fastest running times are 40 minutes, 20 minutes, 25 minutes, 10 minutes, 25 minutes.
Now anyone who has a build to test, be it EFGJack advanced warrior build or Lex's Dwaynaway, could take their builds to these areas and run them to get the times. Suppose I take my overly-defensive build into these areas and get a time 1 hr 20 minutes, 25 minutes, 35 minutes, 20 minutes, 40 minutes. These numbers will tell me how much time is lost by being overly-defensive. If I think the extra reliability provided is far outweighted by the time loss, then I can tweak my build to have more offensive power.
1) I'm sick and tired of hearing people say "When I run my build z, everything just explodes and I faceroll through pve contents" without solid numbers backing up their claim. Just think about how much more credible EFGJack's claim about his build will be if he provides run times for the zones he tested his build at.
2) At the same time, I'm sure many forum lurkers are curious how their hero builds compare to other players.
To the posts above, that's why I mentioned I don't agree with equating fast with good since there are other criteria like reliability. But fast is definitely one criteria to judge the worthiness of a build.
So I repeat here: My sole point here is to provide a point of comparison for judging how fast a build is and I do not care about other factors that are hard to measure.
The suggestion of having a few areas is so that it is representative of PvE content. At the same time, tactics/luck should be eliminated/reduced to be as objective as possible.
The point of having speedclears to each specific area is so that we can judge how much extra time is needed for the build. The extra time needed should provide enough info for the players to weigh the risk/reward factor of running the build.
To be clear, let me illustrate with an example. Suppose the 5 chosen areas are Shards of Orr, Hell's Precipice (bonus required), Morostav Trail, Majesty Rest, and Vloxen's Excavations and the fastest running times are 40 minutes, 20 minutes, 25 minutes, 10 minutes, 25 minutes.
Now anyone who has a build to test, be it EFGJack advanced warrior build or Lex's Dwaynaway, could take their builds to these areas and run them to get the times. Suppose I take my overly-defensive build into these areas and get a time 1 hr 20 minutes, 25 minutes, 35 minutes, 20 minutes, 40 minutes. These numbers will tell me how much time is lost by being overly-defensive. If I think the extra reliability provided is far outweighted by the time loss, then I can tweak my build to have more offensive power.
mugen
my 2 cents : why not make a full movie of a hard run.
everyone will see
- if it works
- how it works
- how many time is needed
- speed killing
etc.
also 1)
btw we are talking about heros builds. I dont think the main goal is too speed clear anything or make records...but finishing zone /quest is nice (for example : doa/uw/fow..) I dont care if itake 5 * more time than a assa/5* envs build.. just finishing it with hero is nice enough for me. (you may lol at me, but i dont think yet anyone and any build can enter, clap their hand , and win , easy - even in normal mode)
and 2)
well for example, i dont care my build make 40 minute @t Majesty Rest instead of 20...
if with my build i can clean tomb and maybe drop a glob of ectoplasm, smoother than with other "fastest" ones... same remark.
everyone will see
- if it works
- how it works
- how many time is needed
- speed killing
etc.
also 1)
btw we are talking about heros builds. I dont think the main goal is too speed clear anything or make records...but finishing zone /quest is nice (for example : doa/uw/fow..) I dont care if itake 5 * more time than a assa/5* envs build.. just finishing it with hero is nice enough for me. (you may lol at me, but i dont think yet anyone and any build can enter, clap their hand , and win , easy - even in normal mode)
and 2)
well for example, i dont care my build make 40 minute @t Majesty Rest instead of 20...
if with my build i can clean tomb and maybe drop a glob of ectoplasm, smoother than with other "fastest" ones... same remark.
NerfHerder
The main problem in setting a benchmark is player skill. Microing, flagging, and tactics used by an experienced player who knows what to expect is going to get a far better time than a less skilled player. A screenshot doesnt show this, so the only way to know would be a video of the full run, like mugen said. Even with videos there will be no way to prove how many attempts were made and you can bet on players submiting thier best time.
My suggestion would be to have at least two different catagories. One for the micro'd and optimized builds for the area, and one for generic builds that you can set and forget, C+Space gogogo. The latter, while not fully eliminating it, would be one way to help take player skill out of the equation. The micro'd catagory is also necessary to show what a build is capable of in an optimal situation.
To even further complicate things, your primary profession must also be considered. A physical character's team build may vary greatly from a caster's. Catagories would need to be set up for physical and caster.
At a minimum, there should be a micro'd and non micro'd catagory, each with a physical and caster subset. Which all require a full video with a display of thier builds.
If your going to use VQ as a proving ground, the player should also display thier quest log to show they do not have any quests that effect the area. The VQ in question should be fairly small, have a minimal amount of patrols, and provide a healthy mix a different mob types. That being said, variable spawns and patrols will change the overall outcome regardless. Making VQ problematic for testing.
My suggestion would be to have at least two different catagories. One for the micro'd and optimized builds for the area, and one for generic builds that you can set and forget, C+Space gogogo. The latter, while not fully eliminating it, would be one way to help take player skill out of the equation. The micro'd catagory is also necessary to show what a build is capable of in an optimal situation.
To even further complicate things, your primary profession must also be considered. A physical character's team build may vary greatly from a caster's. Catagories would need to be set up for physical and caster.
At a minimum, there should be a micro'd and non micro'd catagory, each with a physical and caster subset. Which all require a full video with a display of thier builds.
If your going to use VQ as a proving ground, the player should also display thier quest log to show they do not have any quests that effect the area. The VQ in question should be fairly small, have a minimal amount of patrols, and provide a healthy mix a different mob types. That being said, variable spawns and patrols will change the overall outcome regardless. Making VQ problematic for testing.
EFGJack
That's an accurate estimate there, Heavenlight. I decided to go and vanq Majesty's Rest with a slightly modified "Glass build". This was the only run there. I'm sure I can shave off a few minutes now that I know what to expect from Rotscale's Posse.
builds with offensive spirits and elementalists will surely be able to beat this build in this specific zone as this build barely does any single target DPS. I can run Majesty's Rest with my balanced, sturdy build for comparison.
builds with offensive spirits and elementalists will surely be able to beat this build in this specific zone as this build barely does any single target DPS. I can run Majesty's Rest with my balanced, sturdy build for comparison.
Mig Coconut
Time by itself isn't necessarily the best measuring tool for a general hero build. Lots of people value reliability and ease of use. I think a lot of these problems would be solved if people simple gave their hero builds ratings in a few categories on an scale of 1-5.
Offense. Pure killing power. 1 takes a long time to kill mobs. 5 nukes them to oblivion.
Defense. Otherwise known as reliability. 1 your build can crumble easily if mis-managed. 5 you can survive over-aggroing and last prolonged fights.
Micro required. 1 you can c-space everything. 5 is intensive micro.
Additionally, a few notes should be made in:
Profession of player. Better for melee or caster profession?
Weaknesses. Prolonged fights or heavy enchantment strips a problem? Mention that here.
Variations. The poster should propose alternatives for a few hero bars if no corpses, high number of enemies, hex or condition heavy areas, etc.
Offense. Pure killing power. 1 takes a long time to kill mobs. 5 nukes them to oblivion.
Defense. Otherwise known as reliability. 1 your build can crumble easily if mis-managed. 5 you can survive over-aggroing and last prolonged fights.
Micro required. 1 you can c-space everything. 5 is intensive micro.
Additionally, a few notes should be made in:
Profession of player. Better for melee or caster profession?
Weaknesses. Prolonged fights or heavy enchantment strips a problem? Mention that here.
Variations. The poster should propose alternatives for a few hero bars if no corpses, high number of enemies, hex or condition heavy areas, etc.
EFGJack
Okay, let me entertain you. I did Majesty's Rest for comparison with my old, sturdy balanced build. It's the dungeon build I have in the warrior forums brought to 7H level. I did one run with each build and I most likely won't run Majesty's Rest any more.
There's at least a three minute difference in favor of my old build. This is not news as I know the build is extremely potent and has a high survival rate. I just didn't get around to publish it.
My "Glass" Build
Offense: 4 ½
Defense: 2
Micro : 3
Built for a melee user
Weaknesses: exposure to damage when ST spirits are down
Several variations: Clamor Ritualist can be made into a pseudo-healer by taking off Spirit Rift, etc.
Versus my solid build
Offense: 4
Defense: 4
Micro : 2
Built for a melee user
Weaknesses: Energy Denial and heavy enchantment removal, interrupts
Extremely flexible: can clear any zone in the game on HM with minor modifications, I will not type them down here
Now you will probably wonder why I published the build that performs at lower levels than the build I've always run, well, the answer is that I've found the "Glass" build more enjoyable the past weeks and out of curiosity I brought it to the public as the approach is uncommon. Slightly off-topic here but I felt like an explanation was at place.
But there are zones where the fragile build out-performs the old build, but in general the solid build is miles above the glass one. (The solid build commonly has PDrain or Shatter Hex instead of WW/WD FYI)
There's at least a three minute difference in favor of my old build. This is not news as I know the build is extremely potent and has a high survival rate. I just didn't get around to publish it.
My "Glass" Build
Offense: 4 ½
Defense: 2
Micro : 3
Built for a melee user
Weaknesses: exposure to damage when ST spirits are down
Several variations: Clamor Ritualist can be made into a pseudo-healer by taking off Spirit Rift, etc.
Versus my solid build
Offense: 4
Defense: 4
Micro : 2
Built for a melee user
Weaknesses: Energy Denial and heavy enchantment removal, interrupts
Extremely flexible: can clear any zone in the game on HM with minor modifications, I will not type them down here
Now you will probably wonder why I published the build that performs at lower levels than the build I've always run, well, the answer is that I've found the "Glass" build more enjoyable the past weeks and out of curiosity I brought it to the public as the approach is uncommon. Slightly off-topic here but I felt like an explanation was at place.
But there are zones where the fragile build out-performs the old build, but in general the solid build is miles above the glass one. (The solid build commonly has PDrain or Shatter Hex instead of WW/WD FYI)
EFGJack
I know, but holy damage doesn't earn three minutes in such a small area. in SoO - surely, but not in Majesty's. And Rotscale doesn't take double from Holy. If anyone gets a faster time in Majesty's - congratulations. I will not take part in a MRSC competition.
Edit: if anyone cares the accurate time of my MRVanq with the solid build is 9:47, at least according to the video file.
Edit: if anyone cares the accurate time of my MRVanq with the solid build is 9:47, at least according to the video file.
EFGJack
It's uploading over night. Check my channel in 3~ hours time. Good night.
edit> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXXwPTry8YM - took a while longer than 3 hours. Connection timed out over night, at 98%.
edit> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXXwPTry8YM - took a while longer than 3 hours. Connection timed out over night, at 98%.
Plutoman
Do people realize that there may not actually be a 'best' hero combination for every area? I mean, really. It's fairly obvious that the best builds for areas are tweaked ones - and one's that fit with a player's playstyle.
That automatically means that there is no 'universal' build, because everyone plays differently to different levels of micro and flagging to different styles of personal bars and methods.
There's quite a few combinations of builds that serve plenty well for general content - and do it fast, too. A few minutes here or there won't make a difference, particularly when the difference is typically in the players.
Just realize that there are no 'universally best' builds. There's a lot of good builds, mediocre builds, great builds, but there's no best ones. The builds that complete the DoA in 20 minutes flat aren't ideal for other areas. The builds that complete Raisu in 8 minutes are ideal for other areas. The builds that complete both in reasonable times aren't 'better' than other builds that complete both in reasonable times.
That automatically means that there is no 'universal' build, because everyone plays differently to different levels of micro and flagging to different styles of personal bars and methods.
There's quite a few combinations of builds that serve plenty well for general content - and do it fast, too. A few minutes here or there won't make a difference, particularly when the difference is typically in the players.
Just realize that there are no 'universally best' builds. There's a lot of good builds, mediocre builds, great builds, but there's no best ones. The builds that complete the DoA in 20 minutes flat aren't ideal for other areas. The builds that complete Raisu in 8 minutes are ideal for other areas. The builds that complete both in reasonable times aren't 'better' than other builds that complete both in reasonable times.
heavenlight
Alright I did the Majesty's Rest HM run with my defensive build. The first time I attempted it with my ST def rit and a heavily modified ER hero but it failed horribly because I didn't micro the rit properly. The second time I ditched the rit and just bought a HB monk instead and change the ER hero build back to the gwpvx version but with no infuse (yeap, dual backline). But it still ended up horribly because Rotscale was stuck at the top of the stairs and spirit attacks all count as obstructed. And the third time I finally did it. No micro at all, just rush in and kill. Much to my surprise...
Why are the skills bars blanked? Because I run a hero team build that if it ever gets posted here, numerous people here will bash it hard as suboptimal outright and then they will go "because there are always better options". And since this thread is not about my build, let's avoid it before it happens.
Back to the subject, I guess no one will object to using Majesty's Rest as a testing ground. Does anyone have any suggestions for a mission and EotN dungeon?
Why are the skills bars blanked? Because I run a hero team build that if it ever gets posted here, numerous people here will bash it hard as suboptimal outright and then they will go "because there are always better options". And since this thread is not about my build, let's avoid it before it happens.
Back to the subject, I guess no one will object to using Majesty's Rest as a testing ground. Does anyone have any suggestions for a mission and EotN dungeon?
Dzjudz
Looks fun, maybe I'll try Majesty's tomorrow as well.
heavenlight
After giving some extra thought, I realize the speed clear part isn't really all that necessary. After all, we are doing this for the sake of comparison, and knowing what is an excellent completion time alone should be enough.
Right now, we just need a couple of established players run the area to determine what constitutes an excellent completion time for these areas. The first post will be modified to reflect this.
Also, I need more nominations for vanq/dungeons/missions.
Right now, we just need a couple of established players run the area to determine what constitutes an excellent completion time for these areas. The first post will be modified to reflect this.
Also, I need more nominations for vanq/dungeons/missions.
LexTalionis
I'm still not a huge fan of this approach since it's not particularly objective, but I guess since you called me out, I'll contribute.
I'm not so sure my latest version of Dwaynaway is a good example of a team build - it's not exactly a 8 person build and more of a 6 + 1 rotating person + 1 player one (You scale one or two AoD dervishes depending on area). Speed also would vary greatly depending on main job.
That being said, 2 Dervishes in Tyrian zones is horribly slow because packs outside the Southern Shiverpeaks are very small and AoD sure isn't going to win awards for single target DPS, so I swapped one for a RoJ smiter and kept everything more or less the same as the default build I have on my userpage (except I usually hate running minions, so the Necromancer is on Restoration mode here).
Just did a quick run, 11 minutes, 1 partial disconnect, latency 500~ish:
micro: Calling the occasional caster target, precast spirits before Rotscale (3 clicks), otherwise none.
Completely forgot about the lightning ghosts at Rotscale, so things got messy and 3 people died, which is pretty crappy for an ultra-defensive build. Kinda disappointed. Oh well. Good luck and stuff.
I'm not so sure my latest version of Dwaynaway is a good example of a team build - it's not exactly a 8 person build and more of a 6 + 1 rotating person + 1 player one (You scale one or two AoD dervishes depending on area). Speed also would vary greatly depending on main job.
That being said, 2 Dervishes in Tyrian zones is horribly slow because packs outside the Southern Shiverpeaks are very small and AoD sure isn't going to win awards for single target DPS, so I swapped one for a RoJ smiter and kept everything more or less the same as the default build I have on my userpage (except I usually hate running minions, so the Necromancer is on Restoration mode here).
Just did a quick run, 11 minutes, 1 partial disconnect, latency 500~ish:
micro: Calling the occasional caster target, precast spirits before Rotscale (3 clicks), otherwise none.
Completely forgot about the lightning ghosts at Rotscale, so things got messy and 3 people died, which is pretty crappy for an ultra-defensive build. Kinda disappointed. Oh well. Good luck and stuff.
Dzjudz
I always love Vloxen Excavations. In HM it has a few pretty large and balanced groups that can res each other, and it's very easily accessible. There is a danger of someone exploiting necrotic traversal or something, but that can be remedied by posting screens with full bars.
Jeydra
I hit 7 minutes to kill Rotscale on my very first try. Forgot about the Elementalist spawns too and had to run back and forth out of Frozen Soil range to recast UA (I really should look into bringing Gaze of Fury for general play). Also ended up on 53% DP by the time Rotscale died, which to some extent is a natural consequence of having to control Rotscale's aggro. The time can certainly be improved with anti-Rotscale builds.
As for the full vanquish, I think I was at 14 minutes before I gave up trying to find the last mob on the map, **** vanquishing seriously, especially in a map with so many popups zzz.
As for the full vanquish, I think I was at 14 minutes before I gave up trying to find the last mob on the map, **** vanquishing seriously, especially in a map with so many popups zzz.
Gabs88
Quote:
Originally Posted by LexTalionis
.........
I love how you blanked your name but forgot you had mercs ^^
Dzjudz
Just taking 7HPS I usually run it in 25 minutes (3/4 - 16 - 4, separately 23 minutes, but looking at time played on the character it's actually 25 minutes). I don't take Frozen Soil or Scourge Sacrifice because I run it just testing general builds, not running something countering specific enemies. Don't have screenshots right now, but that is a general very possible time guideline.
LexTalionis
Vloxen Excavations is one of those areas where you can do double Dwaynaway and afk completely - there's only a few earth elementalists, none of which are particularly dangerous, the enemy healers are completely incompetent (lolBackfire) and everything balls up nicely for your Dervishes. It's a good place to show off why Dwaynaway is often so easy to play that it's playable by the severely mentally retarded. (Note: Dwaynaway does not work well for all areas without modifications)
Remember: Dwaynaway is highly defensive and isn't built to win any awards for speed. Any halfway decent offensive build is going to beat it easily.
I took my time to pick up important loot and stuff and got a little lost a few times (kept forgetting to pick up Master Gears and in any case I wasn't really paying attention)
Images:
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/5570/vlox1.jpg 4 min
http://img810.imageshack.us/img810/5898/vlox2.jpg 21 min
http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/3546/vlox3.jpg 5 min
Total = 30+ minutes, not particularly fast at all, but total effort = 0
Skillbars are shown in pic #3, no Necrotic or whatever, 1 copy of "Fall Back!"
Statistics:
Micro: Absolutely none whatsoever unless you count calling targets. Didn't even bother to precast ST rituals.
Silver Bullet metagame skills: Frustration (lets you sleep through Zoldark), otherwise nothing. AoD would do double holy damage to undead, but this Dwaynaway runs 0 Scythe Mastery and Grenth's Aura so it doesn't matter.
Total number of skills Zoldark got off: 1 (while I was killing his minions)
Party Wipes: 0
Amount of attention paid: "Control + enter, Control+ enter... ooh gold item"
Example of a typical doublepull (most of the pressure in Vlox comes from party wide pressure and not spikes, which Dwaynaway is really really good at handling)
Yes, I know I don't censor merc names. Most of them don't exist. Did you think I'd keep 3 Mesmers on 1 account?
Remember: Dwaynaway is highly defensive and isn't built to win any awards for speed. Any halfway decent offensive build is going to beat it easily.
I took my time to pick up important loot and stuff and got a little lost a few times (kept forgetting to pick up Master Gears and in any case I wasn't really paying attention)
Images:
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/5570/vlox1.jpg 4 min
http://img810.imageshack.us/img810/5898/vlox2.jpg 21 min
http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/3546/vlox3.jpg 5 min
Total = 30+ minutes, not particularly fast at all, but total effort = 0
Skillbars are shown in pic #3, no Necrotic or whatever, 1 copy of "Fall Back!"
Statistics:
Micro: Absolutely none whatsoever unless you count calling targets. Didn't even bother to precast ST rituals.
Silver Bullet metagame skills: Frustration (lets you sleep through Zoldark), otherwise nothing. AoD would do double holy damage to undead, but this Dwaynaway runs 0 Scythe Mastery and Grenth's Aura so it doesn't matter.
Total number of skills Zoldark got off: 1 (while I was killing his minions)
Party Wipes: 0
Amount of attention paid: "Control + enter, Control+ enter... ooh gold item"
Example of a typical doublepull (most of the pressure in Vlox comes from party wide pressure and not spikes, which Dwaynaway is really really good at handling)
Yes, I know I don't censor merc names. Most of them don't exist. Did you think I'd keep 3 Mesmers on 1 account?
Mig Coconut
The above conversation is why pure times are meaningless in discussing hero builds- people have different goals and playstyles.
Furthermore, all this "testing" requirements, while on the right track in providing a means of comparison, sound ridiculously tedious and could dissuade people from posting their builds.
This is why I favor the ratings system I posted before. It's easy to see the playstyle (glass canon? super defensive safe build?) as well as the strengths/weaknesses (lots of micro required, weak versus hexes, etc). Is an area too hard? Try a more defensive build. Want to c-space through a vanq? Use one with no micro.
For vetting, I suppose other people could try out the team build and post their own ratings of its usefulness. The overall rating could be an average of the scores. That way, people who post crappy builds but think they're awesome can be called on it.
Furthermore, all this "testing" requirements, while on the right track in providing a means of comparison, sound ridiculously tedious and could dissuade people from posting their builds.
This is why I favor the ratings system I posted before. It's easy to see the playstyle (glass canon? super defensive safe build?) as well as the strengths/weaknesses (lots of micro required, weak versus hexes, etc). Is an area too hard? Try a more defensive build. Want to c-space through a vanq? Use one with no micro.
For vetting, I suppose other people could try out the team build and post their own ratings of its usefulness. The overall rating could be an average of the scores. That way, people who post crappy builds but think they're awesome can be called on it.
hunter
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Originally Posted by LexTalionis
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