Modern ROJway

EFGJack

EFGJack

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2010

Finland

Pros At Inactivity [bleh]

W/

Some of you may recall my old build from the H/H era (http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/p...t10434178.html) – This is the build taken to 7H level. This is for a warrior primary and it may be possible for a warrior secondary to play these bars but I do not recommend it. This build can be played by c+spacing in general content or by bodyblocking and AEing in the elite zones. The Smiter Monk can carry EoE or Soil for elite zones.

This build's effectiveness scales with one's ability to micromanage one's heroes. Although it fares well without the player telling the heroes what to do. At the very least I do recommend flagging your heroes out of DoTAOE spells such as Meteor Shower, though.

I recommend +armor insignia and 40/40 weapon sets on every hero. The [Weapons] NPCs in Vasburg Armory and Leviathan Pits craft these for little common materials and 5 platinum a piece.

Quote:
1. [W/X] Player

One build from every weapon spec. Because one performs better than the other in specific end-game zones. In General PvE you can run what you prefer. "I Am The Strongest!" should be taken out for Asuran Scan in areas with heavy melee hate.

Axe - OQASEZJT8VRFKF7g2FzkXF0k


I prefer this Axe build in the elite ones of the City of Torc'qua & Ravenheart Gloom Hard Modes because of the zone-wide effects: Warrior's Endurance counters Repressive Energy and supplies energy for excessive Asuran Scan usage in RHG. Combined with Splinter it has great AOE potential.

Hammer - OQASE5JT8ViFiP7gJOzkXF0k


Earth Shaker can mitigate more damage than a Soul Twister in zones such as Stygian Veil and Catacombs of Kathandrax, and with Stonefist Insignia, Renewing Smash offers the best single-target DPS out of all three builds.

Sword - OQASEZKT8VCFLOTNxgzkXF0k


Hundred Blades effectively adds +24 slashing damage to each attack, but without Whirlwind Attack and Mark of Pain I decided to go with a common DSlash/SY build instead. This build shines in zones with insane AOE damage such as the Foundry of Failed Creations (IATS < Asuran Scan for Foundry).

2. [Mo/Me] Unyielding Healer - OwUUA1X10hSME3VNgbETfdR9A5U


The main Healer of this build. Shield of Absorption is there so you can maintain a rotation. He utilizes Drain Delusion to leech energy off of the two Mesmers.

3. [Mo/E] Strength of Honor Smiter - OwYT44XCzxlcXp++MrfXEZMPA


This hero provides the other half of the SoA chain required to survive bodyblocks in certain zones, and increased melee damage with SoH. This smiter can run spirits such as EoE and Frozen Soil without losing functionality.

4. [Rt/Mo] Channeling Smiter - OAOj4whjIPYMv5Cxn5SYmXM5BA


With 7 hero slots you can only bring so much, and Splinter Weapon is one of those things. After some testing I noticed you can crank in every useful skill from a Balthazar's Spirit Smiter and a Channeling Support Ritualist into one bar.

5. [Rt/E] Soul Twister - OAaiQyg8gNDnWvj50kaiMcm


With only two spirits, Shelter has a very good uptime. Dulled Weapon is a substitute for Union and can prevent more damage than Union due to removing Critical Hit ability, and providing damage reduction without consuming a charge of Soul Twisting. Binding Chains helps to keep foes in place.

6. [N/Rt] BiP Support - OAhjQshqhO3hq6jAqOJmcDzxJ


This hero is a pure support class. He provides your party with resources and healing. Kaolai and Spirit Light can be changed for Pure Was Li Ming and Mend Body and Soul in zones with mass conditions: Frostmaw's Burrows, the Foundry of Failed Creations & Shards of Orr.

7. [Me/E] Illusions Mesmer - OQZDE8kQSvArAIg5ZkAEB5UID


Standard Ineptitude Mesmer. Hasty players can change GoLE for "Fall Back!".

8. [Me/E] Domination Mesmer - OQZDIMkTOFBaw0z0hTJC5UkB


GoLE can be swapped for "Fall Back!", Shatter Enchantment to Shatter Hex, and Panic to Energy Surge. Build reworked: Basic idea remains the same, but several heroes were either modified or removed.

Comments and critique are welcomed.

chuckles79

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2009

FILA

P/

The only problem I see is that you are relying on the sometimes poor timing of heroes using RoJ. Unless you intend to micro, or run out in front to ball the group up, you could end up with some embarassing RoJ misses.
It all looks good in theory though.

Plutoman

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2010

E/

That would be where he said it scales with player's skill - hotkeying the RoJ's to a few keys, targeting and dropping at the proper times is relatively simple micromanagement. The little touches like those means a build can perform remarkably well, in contrast to the current meta which relies upon people c-spacing.

Looks pretty solid. Don't play warrior, so I can't necessarily critique it.

AndrewSX

AndrewSX

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2010

Italy, Turin

Lake

E/

Same as above, but if you can micro it you should be fine.
I'd prefer Unsteady Ground for the Ele if you're looking for keep stuff in AoE tho, swapping one of the KD for Eruption.
Is still a mini "tank and spank" tactict i suppose.
Nice to have added a bunch of skills for the variations, almost nobody do it.
I'll try it out with my sin, just thinking about what to change on heroes to do it.

P.S: Brace Yourself! + Drunken/Desperate Blow is epic.

Mike Jack

Academy Page

Join Date: Apr 2011

A place where people like to emo bond.

[EMO]

E/Mo

One cool thing that caught my eye was the synergy with Brace Yourself and Drunken/Desperation Blow. Never noticed that before . I'm not positive how well heroes will use BY though.

EFGJack

EFGJack

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2010

Finland

Pros At Inactivity [bleh]

W/

The heroes are pisspoor at using Brace Yourself - they only use it when somebody gets Knocked down, so it has to be microed every time you're about to hit Drunken/Desperation. It's pretty annoying at start but it becomes a reflex rather fast.

Squishy ftw

Squishy ftw

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2007

Your backline

W/

Looks pretty good. I'd probably run this as an ES warrior with Dark Fury thrown in somewhere though. I don't like microing too much and this way you more easily control enemy movement.

Aura of Thorns + teardown seems like another good option for the frontliner.

hunter

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2005

2x BiP?
Earthstorm ele?
Roj on rit instead of the mighty SoS?
No Judge's insight even though you have 2 BiP????

No, i hope you are advanced enough to realize why this is bad.

But in case someone bitches about this post here we go:

BiP is a wasted elite spot, i would much rather take AOTL and/defile enchantment of prot heavy areas. Now you have 2 BiPs? worthless. Contrary to popular belief RoJ monks do not have energy problems unless you load them up with bullshit spells (like brace yourself)

Standstorm eles require your enemies to be balled up, which is not always the case, and if you manage to get them balled up, autoattacks + splinter is enough to wipe down most groups. Standstorm eles would be overkill in this case, and worthless when enemies are spread up, like popups and so one. In either case, its not needed. I know you are trying to be original but in this case its not needed.

16 chan SoS will do more dmg than 12 smiting RoJ, end of story. Spirits offer the added benefit of tanking and distraction, which is good.

No judges insight even though you have 2 BiPs making energy a non issue. Come on man, you know better.

In short, its nice to make creative builds but this is one is suboptimal at best (read: bad)

Now since your ego can't obviously take all this criticism, i look forward to your attempt flames, so bring it on.

FoxBat

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Apr 2006

Amazon Basin [AB]

Mo/Me

If you're a lazy c+spacer and don't like bow pull/balling, I've found you can catch most aggro very easily with death's charge right into a preclumped pack, setting up your AoE. Hilariously effective in shards for instance.

Towards the end of hero smiteway people were abusing the much weaker PvP version of brace yourself with grapple on assassins, it is a solid interaction if you can do the micro.

jensyea

jensyea

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Nov 2009

The Underworld

Mo/

physical instability would rock in this build

itiscurtains

Academy Page

Join Date: Nov 2010

@hunter: There's only one copy of BiP. Read the description of the earth ele - "His elite slot is versatile and he can take over the BiP necro's role."
Also, JI doesn't work with MoP.
And 12 specced RoJ against a ball of snared foes is better than 16 specced SoS.

@EFGJack: The build looks really interesting, thanks. Going to give it a whirl. I wonder, though - would taking Earthbind on the ST rit be worthwhile for the ele knockdowns?

thetwistedboy

thetwistedboy

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Aug 2009

I live right there, see?

Apostles of Oblivion

W/Mo

Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckles79 View Post
The only problem I see is that you are relying on the sometimes poor timing of heroes using RoJ. Unless you intend to micro, or run out in front to ball the group up, you could end up with some embarassing RoJ misses.
It all looks good in theory though. It is funny because EFGJack is a remarkable player and extremely good at hero micro and hero team building. Of course he is going to ball groups, and at that point it really doesn't matter what the hero decides to RoJ. That's how he plays.

I've been messing around with something very similar to this. Instead of a third RoJ though, I've been really enjoying panic micro, mitigates a lot of damage from spells and whatnot.

Now, a couple questions. Is the damage from "Brace Yourself!" really that impressive? I see it doing 120 extra damage, but It seems that would be pretty negligible with 3 RoJ's, the earth nuker, Balthazar's Aura, and Splinter Weapon.

Why SoA on the second monk only in high level areas? I'd rather have it everywhere. Two chained SoA's seem like they would mitigate a lot more damage than one SoA and Shielding Hands.

Have you tried the Dervish Dwayna Healer? I used it for a couple VQ's and it worked out pretty well. My only beef with it is you need some secondary healing somewhere, like Spirit Light on a Ritualist or Necro because it doesn't deal with spike damage very well with 5s and 10s cooldown heals. Massive party healing though.

Plutoman

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2010

E/

Please - SoS does mediocre damage compared to RoJ. It's a nice utility, and the ability to use them for body-blocking is nice, but as said - a simple death's charge means you won't need to body block. It's a warrior main, you aren't a caster kiting.

Besides which, go read his post before commenting. Particularly go read up on skills before commenting on combinations.

@Above - the Brace Yourself damage seems rather nice. 120 extra damage to nearby range every 8 seconds is pretty sweet. This is theory, in my case, but that three skill combo seems pretty effective if you want to do the micro. It's gonna do more than quite a few other skill combinations I can think of. And it's on top of it all - more damage means that if you miss a bit, they'll still all die. Or they'll die faster. Or w/e. <_<

Mike Jack

Academy Page

Join Date: Apr 2011

A place where people like to emo bond.

[EMO]

E/Mo

Did you try a tactics variant with Soldier's Stance, Drunken/Desperation Blow+Axe skills?The Drunken/Desperation Blow will be dealing +40 damage and a chance to inflict DW while having a permanent IAS. The only issue with it is that it might not have the energy.

hunter

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by itiscurtains
View Post
@hunter: There's only one copy of BiP. Read the description of the earth ele - "His elite slot is versatile and he can take over the BiP necro's role."
Also, JI doesn't work with MoP.
And 12 specced RoJ against a ball of snared foes is better than 16 specced SoS.

@EFGJack: The build looks really interesting, thanks. Going to give it a whirl. I wonder, though - would taking Earthbind on the ST rit be worthwhile for the ele knockdowns? You are missing the point. If enemies are balled up, all you need to wipe em is 16 chann splinter + a Wirlwind attack. 3 RoJs are overkill

If enemies are balled up, you won before you attacked.

IF HOWEVER ENEMIES ARE NOT BALLED UP. It doesn't matter if you have 1 or 20 RoJs. Get it?

And MoP sucks because of its long cooldown in gen PvE. its good in SCs but i never use it on general HM. And as i said, if enemies are balled up, all you need is lvl 16 splinter and WW attack.

thetwistedboy

thetwistedboy

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Aug 2009

I live right there, see?

Apostles of Oblivion

W/Mo

@hunter That actually won't kill them. I highly doubt that 250 damage is enough to kill a even a lvl 20. The three RoJ's are there because it's a fast and quick nuke combined with other skills such as splinter weapon and MoP.

And MoP is definitely useful. I've seen its effects several times and I was in your position earlier, saying that it was a stupid waste, but trust me. After trying it, MoP is not waste. It has made me wipe a mob not even needing the RoJ's. It's an excellent skill. If it is useless because of its cooldown(20s), SoS has a 30s cooldown, so doesn't that make SoS more useless?

The point of the build is to ball. It's a tank n spank style of play. Hence RoJ's. SoS is would be such an incredible waste in this team. The spirits would be meaningless. Single target damage against a balled mob? Please.

I gotta ask, do you play a Warrior? Or any melee class? Or are you not familiar with bodyblocking/cornerblocking? Are you aware of how this team is supposed to be played?

AndrewSX

AndrewSX

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2010

Italy, Turin

Lake

E/

There's a difference between "Overkill" and "Be sure that this will happen".
Splinter wear off after 4-5 attacks, which IS very good, but wont wipe everything anyway, expecially if you've balled HM meeles. And maybe you wont be able to ball every mob in the area at the same time.
This is why 3 RoJ in a such build aren't overkill: 1 Roj+full splinter to wipe ball 1, recast splinter and prots, ball another, kill it using second roj, and so on....They come on demand microed.

itiscurtains

Academy Page

Join Date: Nov 2010

I kinda see hunter's point, actually. In a build with such massive AoE spikes, a 3rd RoJ may be superfluous. The Rit may be more valuable using SoS + Bloodsong for the clean-up role; EFGJack even noted that this build has trouble finishing off stragglers. That would also open up the Rit's secondary - you could spec into Resto, letting the N/Rt invest higher into Blood for Blood Bond and Dark Fury. Or you could even take the Curses off the Necro and toss them on the Rit, move BiP to the Ele, and replace the N/Rt with a Panic/E-Surge/PI + Resto Mesmer. Just a thought.

EFGJack

EFGJack

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2010

Finland

Pros At Inactivity [bleh]

W/

Morning. I understand there are 'the' bars to run as a player and on your heroes. Luckily we're all aware of sites such as wiki and pvx. Anyway, I wasn't playing at the time they changed Brace Yourself and only recently noticed it's potential and I wanted to incorporate it into a team build. The smiter has no means of using Brace Yourself on cooldown without a other hero supplying energy, and if you're not planning on running mass minions the other elites are only so good I decided to go with BiP instead.

The Earth ele indeed can run Unsteady Ground, I was playing around with it for a while but figured Sandstorm is the better alternative at least in the majority of the zones.

@Squishy - this bar is pretty solid if you plan on running Earth Shaker, instead of the Drunken/Desperation Blow bars


@FoxBat - Shadowstepping seems quite solid indeed, I reckon one can change IATS/Scan for a shadowstep in areas that do not explicitly require Asuran Scan from the player

@itiscurtains - Problem is that Earthbind would consume Soul Twisting charges, leaving a possiblity that the defensive spirits will be on cooldown more often than now. It's possible to replace Anguished Was lingblah with Earthbind though.

@thetwistedboy - It's very noticeable damage from Brace. Even against one target, it adds 60~ damage to your current target with every drunken & desperation blow, and naturally the damage is done to everyone within Nearby range. It's not OP or "OVERKILLZ" but it's worth it if you're willing to micro it.
And yeah I know the effectiveness of chaining SoA and the reasoning with having a copy of Shielding Hands instead is that it casts faster and lasts longer and stacks with SoA at the start, and that your hp still drops making mobs more prone on sticking to you. I haven't tried a Dwayna healer, last I loaded a Dervish hero I noticed spells like Fire Storm on his bar. This was in 2008.

@Mike Jack - Soldier's Stance doesn't really offer anyhing spectacular enough to warrant a slot. With Strength you get an IAS and all the energy to run whatever wicked bars comes to your mind. In the warrior builds I linked in the OP I have an attribute spread of 12/9/9, the attack skills from tactics do +30 damage with little benefits lost from Strength.

There's still some uncertainty on the elementalists' and necros' roles, though. I need to look into it.

Quote:
I kinda see hunter's point, actually. In a build with such massive AoE spikes, a 3rd RoJ may be superfluous. The Rit may be more valuable using SoS + Bloodsong for the clean-up role; EFGJack even noted that this build has trouble finishing off stragglers. That would also open up the Rit's secondary - you could spec into Resto, letting the N/Rt invest higher into Blood for Blood Bond and Dark Fury. Or you could even take the Curses off the Necro and toss them on the Rit, move BiP to the Ele, and replace the N/Rt with a Panic/E-Surge/PI + Resto Mesmer. Just a thought. A Channeling/Resto Ritualist is a strong hero, I use one in most builds, main reason I chose not to use one this time is that, in the end, I only play the same bars over and over again. Partial reasoning was to have less pressure on balling, 3rd Ray helps finish off those that are not fully caught by the other AE spells. Having 3rd copies of Smite Hex and Smite Condition is pretty nifty, too: having 3 of each going off against monsters that stack hexes and conditions can leave a Roj unused for the cleanup. Blood Bond is a powerful skill but it's entirely situational if it's worth the skill slot. I wouldn't bring it with this build, for example. Same goes for Dark Fury.

And as noted above, the last two heroes are a bit shady still. Thanks for input :>

thetwistedboy

thetwistedboy

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Aug 2009

I live right there, see?

Apostles of Oblivion

W/Mo

@hunter
Actually... I tend to be rather narrow viewed at times and I just pulled an all nighter... Nevermind. I see your point with the 3rd RoJ being overkill. SoS could help out a bit with cleanup if there was scatter or not everything balled. Or you didn't ball. I guess it's point of preference.

For me, I'd stick with the 3rd RoJ just because I have serious doubts about the 'amazing dps' of a single SoS without painful bond, so I think the 3rd RoJ would just serve the team better.

EFGJack

EFGJack

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2010

Finland

Pros At Inactivity [bleh]

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by thetwistedboy
View Post
@hunter
Actually... I tend to be rather narrow viewed at times and I just pulled an all nighter... Nevermind. I see your point with the 3rd RoJ being overkill. SoS could help out a bit with cleanup if there was scatter or not everything balled. Or you didn't ball. I guess it's point of preference.

For me, I'd stick with the 3rd RoJ just because I have serious doubts about the 'amazing dps' of a single SoS without painful bond, so I think the 3rd RoJ would just serve the team better. before I posted this I did give it a thought if I rather bring a SoS instead of ROJ. I will edit the hero later today and add an alternative skill bar with SoS, and Restoration abilities.

thetwistedboy

thetwistedboy

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Aug 2009

I live right there, see?

Apostles of Oblivion

W/Mo

If you want to give it a try sometime today, here's the code for the dwayna healer. I'll be doing that in a few hours... need some sleep.

OgCjwyq26OvX9LAY+SgVvkbEM

I just put a +2 mysticism on the headpiece, +2 earth prayers, and +1 wind prayers.

Optional slot should be Imbue Health, Release Enchantments, Mystic Healing(not good unless you have aegis chains or orders, obvious reasons), or some other flash enchantment.

FoxBat

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Apr 2006

Amazon Basin [AB]

Mo/Me

12 resto and spirit transfer as your only spell (no imbue) makes for a little better spike catching on dwayna. Rest of the bar is meditation and enchantments, no energy issues I find.

Showtime

Showtime

Forge Runner

Join Date: Sep 2005

WTB Q9+5e Bows/Q8 14^50 Weapons

R/P

yep, like your rojway builds for a while now. mines are different, but seem to work well just about anywhere.

went thru several lineups.. started with 3 rojers, 2 rits SOS SOGM, necro rit healer mm, nec rojer, and whoever i was using. really hard to mess up with this build. then swapped in mesmers, bip paras tof, unsteady ground elem, etc. i found that minions and spirits make it nearly impossible to die when set up right, but they can slow me down.

rojway is more flexible than discrordway etc. was using 5-6 pets for my pet-ray build. worked fine in most areas, but the pets seem to tax my st rit. if the ai gets a lil better with pets, i'll go back to it.

now testing 3 monk rojs, st rit (thx adding dulled weapon now that there won't be energy issues) , pi mesmer, nec rit healer with icy veins and 2nd copy of binding chains, nec roj mm, with my vos derv w sy. 2 of the monks run mostly smites and one prot smites. nice that sabs nec rit healer is still going strong and allows me to run 3 smite monks.

might try fit back in a bip para or bip rit, switch all 3 monks to monk/mes with staff (bip hero seems to only bip staffs) with Arcane mimicry, that could get rojs off a lil more frequently than 40/40s and keep them powered up better.

hunter

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2005

quick question, how do you get to display the skill icons in there

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daesu
View Post
Are you playing in NM?

16 Splinter is 53 to each foe and WW is only +20 damage over 1 attack.

16 Smiting Roj is 48 x 5 + 7s of burning to each foe which is equivalent to 48 x 5 + 98 = 338 damage. You also have other factors adding in to the AoE

Splinter weapon hitting the same foe a few times depending on ball.
Ancestral rage
Judge's insight making the WW dmg unmitigated
Mesmer AoEs (i do carry one or 2)
1-2 RoJ dmg depending on the situation.
Minions exploding here and there
Spirit dmg.

As you see, you only need 2-3 of these to wipe out the regular mob. and in most situations there are more than 2 flying around.

Daesu

Daesu

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by hunter View Post
You also have other factors adding in to the AoE

Splinter weapon hitting the same foe a few times depending on ball.
Ancestral rage
Judge's insight making the WW dmg unmitigated
Mesmer AoEs (i do carry one or 2)
1-2 RoJ dmg depending on the situation.
Minions exploding here and there
Spirit dmg.

As you see, you only need 2-3 of these to wipe out the regular mob. and in most situations there are more than 2 flying around.
You forgot to add RoJ into your AoE damage.

The point I was trying to make is, if enemies are balled up, you probably need more than just 16 chann splinter + a Wirlwind attack to wipe them in HM, despite what you said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hunter
If enemies are balled up, all you need to wipe em is 16 chann splinter + a Wirlwind attack. 3 RoJs are overkill

hunter

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2005

Well yeah, otherwise you would only been needing a warrior and splinter weapon no? My point is that if enemies are balled up, due to all the AoE you are constantly throwing around, as well as the random dmg coming from your heroes, the mobs will go "boom" in 2-3 sec.

Balling them up, snaring them, microing "brace yourself" on you and manually casting RoJ takes too damn long and too much effort.

On my war its like
"leeroy" up to a group,
WW,Sun and moon slash,
dead mobs.
Heroes wipe out the straggler.
profit

Oh ya, you also have the random RoJ in there, when they manage to cast it on the right stationary target, needless to say i don't bother microing it, smiters are there for SnH, Bath;s spirit, judges insight, and the occasional smite hex/condition which helps a ton on a frontliner, free dmg, yo

Snarers, 2x BiP, 3x RoJ, too much, yo

Now, is there a way to display skill icons on these boards? im too lazy to DL pawned

Aria Frost

Aria Frost

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2010

Italy

E/

Quote:
Originally Posted by hunter View Post
Now, is there a way to display skill icons on these boards? im too lazy to DL pawned Nope. AFAIK it's not currently possible. Only pics or template codes. BTW if you're so lazy to DL pawned just click here.

hunter

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2005

Ok here we go:



This is a more practical RoJway for a warrior. Has massive AoE, single target, interrupts, single target and party wide prots, minion and spirit walls, Save yourselves in to deal with hairy situations, AoE healing, single target healing

As far as insigmias go, i like my heroes in the 45-50 energy area, more is too much, so once you have that much due to weapon feel free to slot in armor or HP insigmias.

thetwistedboy

thetwistedboy

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Aug 2009

I live right there, see?

Apostles of Oblivion

W/Mo

@hunter, It looks great for C-spacer. Spirits and minions don't mean much with the Bodyblocking/cornerblocking tank n spank style.

I would not run that warrior bar btw... YMLaD + 3 other energy skills. Kinda energy intensive, I'd say. Armor of Unfeeling is also a pretty bad idea in my experience. Heroes only use it when the spirits take damage and it won't affect newly summoned spirits. It's kind of a waste to me unless you micro it.

AeonDemigod

AeonDemigod

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Mar 2007

DOI

W/

IM running something similar, mostly EFGJack Builds
The first Necro Elite I switch around

Daesu

Daesu

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2008

Based on Jack's recent builds, I thought his 7-heroes ROJ build is going to be closer to this:



Obviously he surprised me.

Instead of a mesmer he has an ele. He also has a dedicated healer now.

thetwistedboy

thetwistedboy

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Aug 2009

I live right there, see?

Apostles of Oblivion

W/Mo

Quote:
Well yeah, otherwise you would only been needing a warrior and splinter weapon no? My point is that if enemies are balled up, due to all the AoE you are constantly throwing around, as well as the random dmg coming from your heroes, the mobs will go "boom" in 2-3 sec.
Well. Yeah. That's the point of this team.

Quote: Balling them up, snaring them, microing "brace yourself" on you and manually casting RoJ takes too damn long and too much effort. No. It actually isn't. And It speeds things up considerably.

Quote:
On my war its like
"leeroy" up to a group,
WW,Sun and moon slash,
dead mobs.
Heroes wipe out the straggler.
profit I don't know if you noticed, but we are aware of how you like to play your warrior based on your previous posts. That is not how we play ours. Stop saying your teams are better than this one. You play a completely different way than EFGJack does and your teams are obviously going to be different and incorporate things such as minions and spirits. They are beneficial to your team, not necessarily to this one.


Quote:
Now, is there a way to display skill icons on these boards? im too lazy to DL pawned If there was, other people would've done it. So. No. There isn't.

Showtime

Showtime

Forge Runner

Join Date: Sep 2005

WTB Q9+5e Bows/Q8 14^50 Weapons

R/P

Quote:
Originally Posted by hunter
View Post
Microing heroes at the back so you ball enemies takes more time, and more effort compared to running in and AOEing the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO out of things.

You have no clue what you are talking about.

no micro setup > micro intensive setup


I know its hard to believe, but your warrior idol is not the best build maker out there. So how long you been running your roj team and where'd you get the idea to run roj? It could be from.. jacks old thread. Hard to say since I didn't see your roj build before, but we all seen jacks.

I don't like your build. No imagination. Only 2 rojs? SOSer instead. Aotl and minions = waste of elite or micro AoTL and you have a free slot. Do you need that 2nd mesmer cuz it takes so long to kill stuff. Is that death pact sig? lmao. You made a shit build. RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO all, any 12 yr old who can read guru could do better.

That's what you sound like to me.

No one cares if you don't want to micro. That doesn't take anything away from EFGjacks build. He plays his way. You play yours. If time is an issue, his team is faster. No doubt about that. Just cuz you lack the ability to micro heros or your big ego doesn't give you the right to troll. Learn how to express ideas without putting others down. Learn that just because people do things differently doesn't belittle the way you do things.

Yeah, what?

EFGJack

EFGJack

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2010

Finland

Pros At Inactivity [bleh]

W/

There are several builds that are very effective and require little player interaction. These builds rely on Spirits and Minions to tank the damage thrown at the group while said minions and spirits deal DPS that not many player builds can touch-- and even when they do, they only do DPS while the Spirit Lord is able to heal well while maintaining that DPS. We all know these builds exist and they have existed for years. There would be little point for me to post a build that has 2 Rays, Spirits and Minions and declare myself genius. And even then it's only a variant of well-known powerhouse builds: It brings nothing new to the table.

This build may not be as foolproof or as relaxed as the builds with minions and spirits, but that does not automatically rule out it's effectiveness or viability. I will argue that if one is willing to put in the effort, he will find this build very effective in any 8-man area, including DoA and UW Hard Modes. Only the players' own ability and knowledgeis the roof in the elite zones. I guess the same can be said about the Spirit, Minon, Mesmer builds that pop up five times aday on these forums, but it doesn't make the other builds any less viable.

Bottom line is that Spirit & Minion builds are very good and powerful and exceptional in the sense that they require little interaction from the player considering their effectiveness. And that they are not the only builds in this game. One can run 3 Necro Assassin warp-touchers coupled up with a Dwayn Dervish, ST Ritualist and Searing Flames Elementalists and quite possibly vanquish any area they can enter with 7 heroes. Some players have become blind to any other build than the one they deem the best. And then there's the players who's all about Min/Maxing. And the players who are all about Min/Maxing but yet refuse to micro... More about that below -->

Edit: Point is, if someone runs an earth elementalist instead of an AOTL necro after clearing every area under Hard Mode without consumables, so what? A little change in the winds at that point is always good.

To micro or not to micro

The argument “It’s extra work, therefore I won’t do it” is an argument I won’t take seriously. Let me explain the why:

As a warrior, have you ever dreamed of the ability to bring Smite Hex, Splinter Weapon and Ancestors’ Rage? But you didn’t because you just can’t use them effectively. Or have you ever watched your character suffer from Blurred Vision or Blind and Mind Freeze and observed that Dunkoro’s there at full energy wanding away and not using Smite Hex and Smite Condition on you, and refused to use Smite Hex and Condition manually because it’s extra work and not one of your own abilities? What if you could create a character that you could modify and add additional, special skill slots that you can equip with skills from any profession, any attribute at a maximum rank of 16, regardless of what profession you play – only at the expense of skill slots being withdrawn from your heroes? Would you increase your skill slots from 8 to 10, or 16 in order to bring a Smite Hex and Smite Condition that do not hinder your own ability to play while they activate?

Now with seven heroes, you can equip your team with 64 skills, and the majority of the players only uses 8 on a common basis.
When I invite 7 heroes to the group I don’t see 8 skill bars, I see 64 skill slots and the ability to use them at will. Most players only see the 8 skill slots in the middle of their screen when they leave an outpost to complete a Z bounty, and only use those 8 skills. What if you saw more? What if there were 10 skill slots in the middle of the screen – would you utilize these additional skill slots at the expense of your heroes? Because there are 64 skill slots you can utilize. Give it some thought and ask yourself if it’s difficult to use skills 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 and 8? Then consider if you’d be willing to operate two or more additional skills in order to do something you’ve always wanted to – no more lazy Dunkoro, or picky Razah not using Ancestors’ Rage on you with only one surviving foe.

A player who refuses to micro Smite Hex and Ancestors’ Rage can be compared to a player who refuses to create a character with 2 additional skill slots, just because it’s extra work.

My 2 cents.

Morte66

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2008

UK

LF slightly hardcore UK/euro guild

I think some RPG players, people who grew up on Baldur's Gate and what have you, have a (perhaps subconscious) attitude of "I am a thinker and planner, not some twitch gamer; if I liked twitch I'd be playing Counterstrike". These are people who'll spend ten hours working out a build and ten minutes tweaking it for the next area before leaving town, but they won't use ten clicks to micro Smite Hex during the mission.

I'm like that. I've soloed Baldur's Gate on multiple characters, but I didn't finish the Witcher. I had to drag myself kicking and screaming into GW micro. These days I'll click a few hero skillbar icons before/after a fight and use the few I can hotkey on my numpad during it. That's my limit.

Damn "action RPGs" are taking the RPG world over. I wonder what GW2 will be like.

Daesu

Daesu

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by hunter View Post
No judges insight? Sadface

And its closer to my build, and yes i have a big ego. Lol...you wish. The build was derived from one of Jack's older posts which I took notice here:

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...&postcount=132

I expected him to continue using 2 mesmers because of his RoJ build above and his advanced warrior build here:

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...85&postcount=1

One major difference between the build I posted and yours is that mine does not include minions. Without the need for a MM, my build is not affected in low corpse areas and my heroes do not lag behind while waiting for Death Nova to be cast. This means I can move faster especially with 2 "Fall Back!" instead of just 1 FB in yours.

Also mine does not include Judge's Insight and Jack also did not bring Judge's Insight when clearing Majesty's Rest.

Lastly, there are a few issues with your build:

1. Putting Protective Spirit on the ST defensive rit bar is too defensive and too energy intensive. Furthermore, unless you micro (which you claimed you don't ) the hero can be too busy keeping up spirits or other spells and not cast PS when you need it most. Also, your Boon of Creation does not help with PS energy management when your team is in trouble and your hero has to keep casting PS.

2. Heroes do not use Signet of Creation well. This is most obvious when out of battle and spirits are gone, the hero would keep casting SoC without spirits around just because he is low on energy, even though it does nothing without spirits close by.

3. MoP > Judge's Insight in most general areas. On the other hand, since you probably c-space everything, MoP does not fit your playstyle and you can't benefit from it as much as Jack's builds can.

4. You have no team wide blocking to protect your squishies which is a big problem if you don't aggro manage. Displacement is a better choice than Union. 15 damage reduction is not a big deal in HM. Union itself usually lasts long enough even without ST, but since you are using ST why waste it on Union?

5. No cracked armor?

6. Your warrior build is still too energy intensive and is probably more suitable to go with a discordway team build.

7. Mine has Blood Bond and Dark Fury, yours don't, which means that my warrior gains adrenaline much faster than yours. They are not necessary skills but they are nice to have.

8. "Never Surrender!" does not affect minions anymore. It used to due to a bug, but that has been fixed.

9. That general build is standard and has been around for a long time with contributions from myself and many others on this forum.