Flux - June 2011
lemming
Unyielding Spirit: For every 2 points of death penalty you have, you deal 1% more damage.
Swingline
flag pushing is far less important now besides recharging rez sigs. Should be interesting to see.
lemming
Flag pushing is good because it creates 8v7 engagements. The last flux had very little effect on that, and I don't see this one doing so either.
Apok
I see this Flux Capacitor being either very worthless or kinda gimmicky.
But what do I know?
But what do I know?
melissa b
Wait, so I get penalized for killing someone?? Meh
Swingline
This one seems to affect flag pushing even more than the previous flux though. Even with the flag stand a team engaging the opposing team at their guild lord will have to be even more careful since the other team most likely will have DP and supercharged damage. Could turn the whole fight around.
FoxBat
Thought there was something about fluxes being valid in all forms of PvP, guess that's out the window. Half of them don't even give death penalty, including the relevant maps of HA.
melissa b
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by FoxBat
Thought there was something about fluxes being valid in all forms of PvP, guess that's out the window. Half of them don't even give death penalty, including the relevant maps of HA.
|
Arnold Killmachine
@2up you still don't get its all about GvG nowadays?
kinda silly flux, "don't over-dp/spike the war or he'll chop you down"
kinda silly flux, "don't over-dp/spike the war or he'll chop you down"
Artisan Archer
I like it. It's always been way harder for a spike to make a comeback than a pressure or split build so I think this is a really interesting flux. We might see some spike builds make big turn-arounds on obs, like in the three dervish mAT.
cataphract
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by melissa b
Wait, so I get penalized for killing someone?? Meh
|
Missing HB
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by FoxBat
Thought there was something about fluxes being valid in all forms of PvP, guess that's out the window. Half of them don't even give death penalty, including the relevant maps of HA.
|
And even , i wonder if this flux is really useful or was coded as intended... i'm pretty sure they made this to stop overlinebacking , or to help people who can't cap flag at all( so you'll have choice between more damage or more health/energy)... but i don't think such a low damage addition will be a very interesting substitute
I guess people won't run suicide spikes , like they keep suiciding at begin to get 20-30% damage and sf or nec spikes could be fun, but once again i don't believe dealing 30% more damage when at 50% health will do much , especially if you consider you will die faster after you killed targets...
Arnold Killmachine
I guess its aimed against pure spike builds, which happen to be turtles, and by the time they apply some DP over opposite team they are likely unbeatable unless outplayed tactically.
This flux provides opportunity to pressure harder while being spiked out one by one.
This flux provides opportunity to pressure harder while being spiked out one by one.
Reverend Dr
Just throwing this out there. Morale boosts now lower damage.
floor
i actually really like this flux. Should make for some interesting games, as its going to be far more possible to turn around the tide of a match now. You get pumped, pick up 30DP, then turn around and smash ur opponent. They get DP and now they deal more damage, and since u worked off some DP, u deal less damage. Should be really back and forth tbh.
For once im actually impressed with something anet did, this genuinely seems like something cool.
For once im actually impressed with something anet did, this genuinely seems like something cool.
HigherMinion
wrack up DP by saccing out with Blood Ritual and make things go boom with a By Ural's-style buffer! nuke nuke!
Also, won't people just target monks first, to prevent the damage clause? (apart from epic wandspikes ofc)
Also, won't people just target monks first, to prevent the damage clause? (apart from epic wandspikes ofc)
lemming
Monks are kind of hard to kill.
Also, do morale boosts actually decrease damage? That seems really bizarre.
Also, do morale boosts actually decrease damage? That seems really bizarre.
Arnold Killmachine
as long as you loose DP by morale boost, yeah it does decrease damage.
+10 boost wont lower the damage output any further i suppose.
+10 boost wont lower the damage output any further i suppose.
floor
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by lemming
Monks are kind of hard to kill.
Also, do morale boosts actually decrease damage? That seems really bizarre. |
Im hopeful morale boosts dont do that though, the way its worded would suggest it is only Death Penalty, and not morale. But then, the number of errors with skill descriptions over the years is alarming.
Artisan Archer
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by floor
Makes sense when just removing death penalty. If you do less damage going from no morale to +10% then yeah thats a joke.
Im hopeful morale boosts dont do that though, the way its worded would suggest it is only Death Penalty, and not morale. But then, the number of errors with skill descriptions over the years is alarming. |
X Dr Pepper X
This mechanic is dumb.
Why reward a team for being less talented?
Trade offs are trade offs for a reason.
GvG is a fine competitive setting, but the game is so skewed by balance RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO ups by ANet.
Just restore balance and GvG is fixed.
Then all ANet would have to do is promote the play of GvG and revive PvP by making every other format besides GvG not shitty.
Why reward a team for being less talented?
Trade offs are trade offs for a reason.
GvG is a fine competitive setting, but the game is so skewed by balance RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO ups by ANet.
Just restore balance and GvG is fixed.
Then all ANet would have to do is promote the play of GvG and revive PvP by making every other format besides GvG not shitty.
floor
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by X Dr Pepper X
This mechanic is dumb.
Why reward a team for being less talented? Trade offs are trade offs for a reason. GvG is a fine competitive setting, but the game is so skewed by balance RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO ups by ANet. Just restore balance and GvG is fixed. Then all ANet would have to do is promote the play of GvG and revive PvP by making every other format besides GvG not shitty. |
easy as that eh? no doubt a 5 minute job
I do agree though that the flux is in essence a 2nd chance for bad teams, rewarding dying? but it is a complete see-saw effect of teams gaining extra damage, and then assuming they make good use of it, losing this bonus whilst the other team gradually gains it. In one sided matches its going to make no difference at all, one team still gets dumped on. But in evenly contested matches, the game will become more exciting with a better chance of an epic comeback.
I'd like to think this flux will increase the number of deaths during the game as well, (there should in theory be more deaths to both teams), and the more DP teams get, the less chance of a game going to 28 minutes. The tiebreaker is still stupid as hell so the more chance of avoiding a match getting to that stage the better imo.
Killed u man
Very interesting flux this time. The previous one was pretty worthless, not to say completely useless.
This one gives teams a second chance, a third and a fourth one, which should create some nice GvG matches. (Actually looking forward to the mAT)
I also would love to see how this plays out for byob/split builds, as the only way to beat a split is to kill the split. As such, they will keep getting stronger and stronger as the match prolongs. Obviously it's the same for honor balanced teams, but split builds are usually already designed around doing the most with the least amount of damage, so we'll see some interesting changes there...
Also a nice "nerf" to quad necro, as degen obviously doesn't count.
This one gives teams a second chance, a third and a fourth one, which should create some nice GvG matches. (Actually looking forward to the mAT)
I also would love to see how this plays out for byob/split builds, as the only way to beat a split is to kill the split. As such, they will keep getting stronger and stronger as the match prolongs. Obviously it's the same for honor balanced teams, but split builds are usually already designed around doing the most with the least amount of damage, so we'll see some interesting changes there...
Also a nice "nerf" to quad necro, as degen obviously doesn't count.
MidnightOokami
@Killed u man - Really depends on what type of PvP you play to consider it useless or not. I only play JQ and it was pretty fun with the last flux, I'm guessing they decided to let high-end GvG have their month of fun. Good luck you guys and have fun with this months flux.
Xenomortis
I honestly don't think Jade Quarry qualifies for balance discussion.
In fact, I don't think it really qualifies for PvP.
In fact, I don't think it really qualifies for PvP.
Zrox
Consider a fullwipe on a spike, most of the party is on 15-30% DP. roughly 10% increase on spike damage. Spike, for obvious reasons, now has HUGE advantages over pressure builds, as DP on one target will not give the pressure build much of an advantage, but just letting yourself wipe once vs the pressure will mean you can spike out the same target without recovering much DP 60ing them, and making the game pretty much won, them having a 60dp target.
Artisan Archer
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Zrox
Consider a fullwipe on a spike, most of the party is on 15-30% DP. roughly 10% increase on spike damage. Spike, for obvious reasons, now has HUGE advantages over pressure builds, as DP on one target will not give the pressure build much of an advantage, but just letting yourself wipe once vs the pressure will mean you can spike out the same target without recovering much DP 60ing them, and making the game pretty much won, them having a 60dp target.
|
Gruff
I like this one, gives squishy warriors even more bravery points for epic game turn arounds, suites me fine.
jazilla
So an 8 necro saccing-MM team rules this month in PvP?
chuckles79
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by FoxBat
Thought there was something about fluxes being valid in all forms of PvP, guess that's out the window. Half of them don't even give death penalty, including the relevant maps of HA.
|
I'm starting to think that they need to make another split just for GvG.
90% of the nerfs since product release have been due to GvG gimmicks or overpowered builds.
There is nothing wrong with considering it the penultimate form of PvP, but it takes a disproportionate amount of the developer's attention sometimes.
Am I alone in thinking that if they weren't so busy balancing out the dervs in PvP that we would be hip deep in Winds of Change by now?
Horus Moonlight
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by jazilla
So an 8 necro saccing-MM team rules this month in PvP?
|
Reverend Dr
Its just the really basic idea that you don't want to die, but this flux rewards dying.
Aside from that, I can't help but feel that this is going to encourage turtling even more.
Aside from that, I can't help but feel that this is going to encourage turtling even more.
jazilla
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Horus Moonlight
Minionfactory was a terrible gimmick that was only good when Flesh Golem was bugged. It won't be seen this month except maybe for the lulz.
|
to convey my sarcasm. 
Artisan Archer
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Reverend Dr
Its just the really basic idea that you don't want to die, but this flux rewards dying.
Aside from that, I can't help but feel that this is going to encourage turtling even more. |
Also, how? Turtling means you're stalling but with this tiebreaker if you turtle in your base you're in a bad position for 28(lord damage is a map-distance away, compared to the other team's damage already being in your base).
Things I can see this flux do is people being very careful about pushing into enemy base after they full wiped them, spikes being up to par to current pressure (trip front) builds and possibly epic comebacks on obs.
I like this Flux more than the Lone Wolf one, tbh.
Reverend Dr
A guaranteed loss at 28 hasn't stopped turtling yet. This just gives teams that are going to lose a false hope of keeping going while making it harder for the team that is going to win to reach the win state without waiting 28 minutes.
It still doesn't change the fact that this flux rewards bad play. If a team does make a comeback and pushes out, do they cap the flag? A morale boost (good play) is rewarded by a loss of 7.5% damage across the team. Aside from that comebacks are good when they aren't forced. If the game mechanics artificially force comebacks, it is extremely unsatisfactory. There are already many amazing comebacks on obs without having something try to artificially create them.
Also are all of the fluxes going to be silly mechanics that just give +%dmg? I thought Anet realized such mechanics were bad when they got rid of the VoD buffs.
It still doesn't change the fact that this flux rewards bad play. If a team does make a comeback and pushes out, do they cap the flag? A morale boost (good play) is rewarded by a loss of 7.5% damage across the team. Aside from that comebacks are good when they aren't forced. If the game mechanics artificially force comebacks, it is extremely unsatisfactory. There are already many amazing comebacks on obs without having something try to artificially create them.
Also are all of the fluxes going to be silly mechanics that just give +%dmg? I thought Anet realized such mechanics were bad when they got rid of the VoD buffs.
FengShuiDove
I don't particularly see this as rewarding dying. At 50% DP, it takes half the damage to kill them, and their damage is only boosted by 25%.
Player A = 600 health, does 50 damage per hit. 6 hits to kill Player B.
Player B = 300 health, does 62.5 damage per hit. 10 hits (9.6) to kill Player A instead of 12 (unmodified).
Of course lots of factors go into both ends of the argument. Which is why I think it's a pretty interesting mechanic for a month.
Player A = 600 health, does 50 damage per hit. 6 hits to kill Player B.
Player B = 300 health, does 62.5 damage per hit. 10 hits (9.6) to kill Player A instead of 12 (unmodified).
Of course lots of factors go into both ends of the argument. Which is why I think it's a pretty interesting mechanic for a month.
X Dr Pepper X
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by FengShuiDove
I don't particularly see this as rewarding dying. At 50% DP, it takes half the damage to kill them, and their damage is only boosted by 25%.
Player A = 600 health, does 50 damage per hit. 6 hits to kill Player B. Player B = 300 health, does 62.5 damage per hit. 10 hits (9.6) to kill Player A instead of 12 (unmodified). Of course lots of factors go into both ends of the argument. Which is why I think it's a pretty interesting mechanic for a month. |
Just gonna be a dumb month for GvG with people running gimmick spike builds and teams with heavy protting.
Ele and Necro spikes are gonna be lame this month.
urania
Time to bring back good old protective spirit?
Reverend Dr
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by urania
Time to bring back good old protective spirit?
|
Though I still feel that SB is going to have more mileage since more attacks are going to hit for 60+ An axe warrior with any DP is now going to auto-attack crit in the 60+ range.
Our Virus
I'm just going out on a limb here by saying it but I get the feeling EoE bomb will see it's way into HA this month. 60death penalty = 30% more damage? Eh...