make skill cancel doesn't incur cost of mana.

Anet does use band-aids tho, that's why this might be implented!

This doesnt promote skillful play. This idea is simply shifting skill requirement to the rupter and it would be a quick fix(like a band aid) to the problem that rupts are too OP.

Yes, PvP now has a wound that will never heal, so the best thing to do is keep it triaged with fluxes.

I never said that they didn't use them but that they don't like to and that they seek to make the changes so the band-aid can be removed. They only use perma band-aids if it is not possible to fix the problem like PvP balance. This however can be fixed with anets limited resources by nerfing interrupts to decrease the sheer number of them or numbing the effects they have.

The GWs skill casting system is realism at work. Say you have a generator(energy bar) and you about to power your home with it through a cable(skill casting bar) but someone cuts that cable(interrupt) before any energy reaches the home. That energy doesn't return to the generator but it simply is passed on to the surroundings.

1) not just only to the interrupter, it is providing every player has a chance to use skill cancel more, there is lot of other utilization of skill cancelling.. say for example if there is a sudden change of mind casting a spirit in an area, to do a fake cancel cast spike, to gain mobility.. the extra usability provide by skill cancel gives more dynamics to pvp.. thats what pvp need most..skillful play actions....not c spacing... spamming....something you need to think to use beforehand.. but now that option is not viable due to high cost......

2) so they use, but don't like to use.... even so.. skill cancel is not just a band-aid... it is also an extra button to promote dynamics to pvp.... with an extra "band-aid" effect you may call it to reducing the overpower of interruption.

3) exactly the case, if you have a second thought of not using any appliance at your home, cutting the power cable...would not affect any power consumption...it is not like, once interrupted, your mana will never get regeneration...your example only assume continue supply of energy to your skill casting, but they are energy denial skills that you are actually illustrating, and the fact is energy supplies to your casting only when you use a skill(skill casting)..

interrupt it is not a total denial of energy, but a denial of skill..so the compromised version of 50% en return is a better option when you skill cancel.

heres how to fix interrupts.

1.) Increase all interrupts to 1 min, give or take, recharge times. Would depend specifically on the skill itself.

2.) remove skill cancelling from the game.

Bu Bu
Counterspell

Counter target spell.

live with it.

but the different is GW is real time, not turn base like MTG...

Unfortunately for this suggestion to be implemented Anet would have to change the relationship between skills and energy to either:

A- Make skills deduct energy after they've been successfully casted.
B- Refund energy for cancelled spells

If the first idea were to be implemented, you would start to run into problems with e denial functionally-wise. For example, what were to happen if a warrior with 5 energy used seeking blade at the time a Mesmer used e surge?

If the second idea were to be implemented, edenial wouldn't be a viable tactic anymore, as a monk or a caster could just sit on a 10-15e spell and spams cancel action. Furthermore, I'm not exactly sure it is possible to implement this idea, as cancel action acts as a self-interrupt.

Logistics aside, increasing the viability of cancel-casting as a tactic decreases the viability of baiting interrupts with other skills as a tactical option.

Personally I would prefer the viability of baiting spells and focus on the real issue of interrupts- the unneeded PvP mesmer buffs.

/notsigned

therefore return 50% is a better go..

passing on to your 2nd idea.. if you cancel cast sitting on 10-15.. and returning 5 each time .. it is still not viable for you to keep cancel casting, even so if you stand there keep cancel casting..... a warrior can butt on you, which is not a good option for standing strategy and encouraging players to move more than just standing there to keep casting/cancelling skills...

regarding baiting with other skills, when interruption is only optional, bringing baiting skills will become an obligation, that is like.. forcing other to bring patient spirits or 1/4 casting time spell just because someone may bring that interruption.. orison of healing or other 1 sec+ casting will become obsolete, and prompting to argument of ping issues that is not really a fairness in the sense of competition when connectivity is so relied on...

moreover, baiting as a tactical option does not look like skill cancelling that doesn't rely on skill bar, anti interruption, when your skills bar has no room for baiting, is not as good as skill cancel in terms of dynamics of competitiveness.

Besides, you can still use the baiting tactics, it won't decrease its viability even if skill cancel becomes more viable, as one relies on 8 skills, the other one relies on esc key, they both can co-exist....

Hence, I thinking promoting another player skillful cast cancel action which return a percentage of en is better than just focusing on interruption skills...though interruption has problem in itself it needs to be looked at altogether.

Interrupts are key to most pressure teams. They're not OP, they're just a key element in PvP. You need good reflexes or luck to hit those 1/4 spells or anticipate when they'll trigger, so the reward of downtime or +dmg is worth it.

but because of that requirement of haste reflex and anticipation, it prompts to ping issues, which makes it unfairly overpowered

you're seriously going to make the argument that good ping is unfair?

good ping of course is unfair, if the skill is relying on that 1/4-1/8 casting time reflection..

if you have 300ms-500ms, you can never play mesmer because of that...

is not like patient spirit, which the casting time doesn't really matter if there is no interruption

If you cancel casts that cost 10-15 and get back 5, in essence, losing 5, why can't you just cancel with a 5e skill in the first place?

2.) If an interrupter is watching you, then siad warrior can butt the interrupter as well.


Interrupt skills are optional. Baiting skills are also optional. Infact, putting anything in those 8 skill slots of yours is optional.

Ping in any competitive setting is important. If you are seriously trying to say to balance the game around people with bad ping, then I have nothing else to say.


If your skill bar has no room for baiting, then you suffer from the consequences of bringing no baiting skills. Thats it. Thats like saying "My skill bar had no room for aegis, so all monks should get aegis as a 9'th skill because it promotes tactics as to when the opposing team can spike."


No. Bad ping is disadvantageous. Decent ping is a given. Any and all competitive online games are balanced with 0 and/or close to LAN-type situations as it provides a control.

1) so you are actually forcing other people to bring more 5e skills, but not other skills that can be viable..

2) if an interrupter is watching you.. you ask warrior only to butt the interrupt, what happen if you don't have the warrior...??

3) skills on your bar are optional, only the esc key is out of the skill bar, that makes the difference.

4) ping is important, but if a game only let player to play competitively in a low ping say perhaps 5ms to become competitive, then it is actually limiting the competitiveness, comparing 300-500 ms , and a 5 ms, mesmer...and if you say, then don't use interrupt.. meaning.. you are excluding part of the world to play mesmer, lead to lower population.....so skill infuse heal or interruption with fast casting time should be balance more on a average to high ping

5) is not just because of bringing anti skill so to promotes esc cancel skill, esc skill cancelling, has more other dynamics factor that can give to gw pvp, but the idea of bringing other anti skill, is not a dynamic factor that promote extra skill play which doesn't rely on skill bar.

6) gw war is competitive, but not a lan game, like sc, player can't play gw through lan.. so it is where it becomes limiting to the population...

1.) Yes. Yes I am. You seem to think that 5e skills are not viable for one reason or another.
2.) What happens if you're just sitting and skill cancelling and your opponent doesn't have a warrior? Same question.
3.) What?
4.) Everyone can play the game, regardless of ping. Unfortunately for anything competitive online, from trading stocks to competitive games, ping plays a big part. If it means that 90% of the world cannot play at the top level of play because of ping issues, so be it. If one cares enough to play at that said "top tier," there are various options available such as acquiring a T1 connection, and moving next-door to arenanet servers. However, with the current internet infrastructure, it is impossible to every single person to achieve a standard ping.
5.) The problem here is that you're trying to cover poor strategy with good tactics. It doesn't work. You don't bring a sword to a gun fight and expect to be able to outmaneuver your opponents and stabbity stab them to death. It just doesn't work that way.

6.) sucks for the population with bad ping.

1) then why do they have 10+en skills?
2) skill cancel expenses time if you keep skill cancelling
3) esc key is not one of your 8 skills on your bar...
4) same as your own 6) ... but if there is something can be put on the table to reduce that problem, then it is not that suck..

5).. no it is not bring a sword to a gun fight, because you are picking up a sword in the environment with a gun you holding in a gun fight, its different..

50% en return when you skill cancel.. bring something extra to the dynamics, plus with you may called "band-aid" effect to the interruption problem

1.) High risk, high reward.
2.) Skill cancel expends time. Watching a player to interrupt skills also expends time.
3.) What does that have to do with what was being discussed?
4.) Huh?
5.) See this quote here goes to show you think skill canceling is a little trick that you and only you know how to do. That you are the master of skill canceling and that no one else knows how to do it.

Do not be so arrogant.

I will say again. You made a strategic choice not to bring an interrupt baiting/cancel skill. This is a poor strategic choice, ie: your sword.
You decide to bring this poorly made skillbar to a scene where interrupts are commonplace, ie: the gunfight.
You then complain that your pro tactics with the sword lose out in said gunfight, and you are now wanting to change the rules so that your opponents can only use said gun at point blank range?

Might as well play a hamstorm build, find it not to work too well, and then complain that the game mechanics are broken. After all, its supposed to be a deadly combination.

2) watching a player expends time but not mana, skill canceling does expends mana+time.. double cost

3) interrupt is a skill, but it is optional that not everyone needs to or compulsorily have to bring, however esc is a button every class can use, and should be utilized more.

5) therefore, make it a 50 % en return, at least you give a chance for player to cast cancel more frequently, but not too much.... now is just too little, because the cost is too high for it...

is nothing related to interrupt or not, is about using what you got, like kiting, using maps, carrying a flag, weapon switching...

2.) Watching a player means you're not spending mana, which also means that your mana is capped, and mana regen is wasted. In essence, watching a player also expends mana. Not so much real mana, as potential mana. Additionally, it can be done with signets with 0 manacost.

3.) All skills are optional, not something everyone needs to bring. Esc is a button every class can use. So what should we do? Have autoattack battles, or see who can spam the esc key the most?

5.) How much more frequently do you need to need to cast cancel than infinitely with a signet?

and a brain to know how to work out what to bring.

2) watching a player, you actually has a choice to spend the potential en, but during skill cancelling, you don't have that choice.

50% mana return, that's what I want basically...

25en+25en shelter is 50 en if you cancel 2 times.....at least it is feasible to cast and gain recovery from 1 or 2 skill cancel

if only rely on skill.. might as well... kill all hoh maps, and objectives, reducing all dynamics....

a brain to use dynamics is better than a brain without using it.....

increasing dynamics in skill cancelling doesn't affect a brain to know what skill to bring

just like if skill cancelling is more feasible, you can still bring other skills to work with it... that means you are actually arguing on nothing...


ok so.. my bar can only contain.. 5en skills, signet skills....what else can I bring from so many skills, may as well song of concentration, gly of concentration?... you see the dynamics is lost because of interruption overpowering...

Interupts would become totally useless if players can just sit there and cancel 25 skills in a row, and not cost any energy. Shutdown is already used far less than it should be for such a well designed cool mechnanic, since considering how overpowered straight up damage characters are, you dont really need shutdown at all.

Seeing as damage already > shutdown in a lot of cases. Nerfing shutdown further, just reduces the already small pool of avaliable team builds even more.

Ofc interupts might seem overpowered atm, but to be totally honest, power creep of damage + healing means that even the super strong interupts available now, are still NOT GOOD ENOUGH to see widespread usage. Interupts dont need nerfing, at least not unless there is a major nerf to damage+Healing to go along side it.



OP's idea of 0 energy cancel casting is one of the worst ideas ive seen on this forum in a very long time. Even the argument about "rupting at key times" is totally irelevant, because as a monk, canceling a skill and then recasting it in order to fake out a rupt takes you like half a second, vs virtually any build this is no big deal at all, and if cancelling costs 0e, you would cancel at least once before casting every skill pretty much so you never got interupted unless you were extremely unlucky.

If that extra +0.5s is a problem and is causing you to die to spikes, then probably you should just be using infuse health anyway cos the spike was clean, and you cant interupt infuse on reflex...

The whole thought process behind the OP of this thread is just lols. Unless ofc this was aimed at PvE, it has absolutely no bearing on PvP at all other than just making interupts useless....

that's why the 50% en return is asked, if you have read other post, and not giving the same argument that others have already done.

you know the mesmer can just stand there and lol at you cancel casting without doing anything, but you may have already wasted 10 en if you canceled 2 times.. it is not just +0.5 sec

do you see the problem?.. mesmer did nothing.. and you cancel cast waste 10 en just because the mesmer has that interrupt skill..

and beside, cancel cast is not one of your 8 skills on your bar...it is a button that all other classes can use to make the game fairer....

I haven't read the whole thread but I think I've read enough from this and your latest posts.

Everyone has said that you're juking rupts. Everyone has said wait for fast cast.

Faking in the backline is easy. Rits don't worry about energy management so they can cancel till FC for a whole game. Monks when cancelling are gambling with potentially 10/15 energy, big deal. As a backline, or even mid liner, you already have field observation and can identify if they're watching you and you don't need to worry about cancelling. "wasting time" cancelling is by far a lot better than losing that skill for 20 seconds. I think you forget you start faking early, so you don't "waste time" when redbars get low, even with pre protting and weapons.

In srs HA, it's always about taking the weapons first. Strip his e-management and force him to cast. This is how you win. It's easy. How does your suggestion improve this? It doesn't.

Would it be fair for rupters to use energy and recharges on skills but you can fake them out for free?

50% energy return is a funny suggestion. How about just half the energy cost of everything?

it will be fair, because the rupter can cancel cast his rupt too....it is just giving the control back to the cancel caster than making interruption is the ultimate weapon

because your example of HA is wrong on every level that you are not using interruption, and are relying on meta and hypothesis too much, that the hypothesis can be refuted in many ways, because it is just only an assumption...that it doesn't do anything about the dynamics which is something above the 8 skills, like maps, kiting, etc.

No i dont see a problem, good players move out of range of the mesmer, if he follows you then hes probably watching you, so u fake etc. The majority of players with a brain dont just sit there randomly faking tons of stuff and draining all their energy... Your idea basically just makes the game easier for bad players.

Note: I am quoting you slightly out of context here, but im gonna do it anyway.

The game is never unfair. Even if some builds are broken and unbalanced, those builds are equally available to you as they are to your opponent, therefore its totally fair. Theres no point making cancel casting 0e cost, or even reduced energy cost, just to accommodate bad players lol, people should just focus a bit on actually trying to improve at the game. Its impossible to fake out every interupt, but by using your brain a bit you can certainly avoid many of the key interupts that might cause you to die.

you cast a skill, cancel it at 0.25-0.5s, this draws an interupt provided you used your brain and know the mesmer is watching you, then you cast another skill. Please explain to me how this process takes longer than half a second??

Most mesmers who are watching you, when they see you try and cast, will try to interupt it. To a degree this is simply human nature. Provided the monk or whoever actually pays some attention to their surroundings and identifies that the mesmer is probably watching them, you cancel cast, and they cast an interupt + miss. GG!




Imo the ideas u posted about reducing energy cost to 0, or to 50%, are totally unnecessary. People should just try and get better at the game in order to deal with interupts. This might not be easy to do, but in order to succeed at anything in life (or in virtual life ), it always takes practise.

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LOL. Sorry for double post but this honestly made me laugh.

0.5 sec.. but you missed the en part..
and your assumption of human nature is wrong, because it is a generalization.. so there is nothing to worthy to argue with you.....

And this is where you don't know me nor do you know HA tactics. Why should I explain in detail how every player should do their job? Kiting, understanding the map and utilising weapon sets, cancelling, field observation, linebacking, snaring, watching ghost: All of this, once you reach a decent level of competency, is expected. Winning a game is not down to Kiting. Epic fail on your part buddy. You question me and tell me I should do the basics properly? A little insulting.

Its a hypothesis? Tell me this, how does one counter weapons in any other way? They cannot be stripped and anyone with a weapon will not go down, it negates SO much damage, not to mention PwK and Life are godly.

In a high ranked dogfight, the one who wins will be whoever can shutdown the weapons. Everyone is expected to do their job right, so you never blame your offensive capabilities simply because everything worth killing has been weaponed. Unless it's completely obvious, but then you're clearly not playing with high ranked players.

You keep trying to improve your ideas, but this is an example of your suggestions:
Rit will constantly cancel cast until he gets a fast cast, camping on his 40/40. Doing this does not trouble him because he's essentially using 5 energy to fake a weapon (And only 2/3 energy for 5 energy monk skills like HB and prot skills.... LOL). It means instant regen with no cost.
Ranger/Mesmer is trying to rupt said Ritualist, but because he can cancel until fast cast, he has to try to rupt fast casts and only fast casts, which are impossible unless you're lucky. More to the point, the rupter (somehow) will have SuperDuperAwesome reflexes that if he presses a rupt, he can realise the skill was faked -> choose to cancel it within the 0.25 second cast time -> be ready to try to attempt the impossible.

I don't know how to explain this to you any better, but you're essentially allowing casters to abuse this cancel system to wait for a fast cast (for free), give rupters an impossible task and then challenge their reflexes to create immaculate conceptions with their fingers (I'm talking about cancelling 1/4 rupts LOOOOOOL).

I'm done here, floor has also made some good points but it's time to move on. Its nice that people come up with these ideas, but you should really accept defeat and think of a better alternative, rather than attempt corrections to your original, basic idea.

yeh cancelling shouldn't come at a free cost

if cancelling had a free cost then make interrupts recharge faster if you miss.

When you use energy glyphs, you'll get this. You are supposed to lose the energy if you are not using energy glyphs.

this is ridiculous, why is it a must to use an interrupt to counter weapon? that means you are only using the meta, and negating other skills possibility, there are blackout, diversion, shame, en burn, kd, other skills that affect recharge and besides, there is no fast casting for spirit, if you know the game more, obviously you have not played enough...

so if the free concept is bad, then how about the 50% en return, that you really didn't have any persuasive argument countering that.. that is cancel casting having a double cost of en plus the time spend of standing and not using the potential en when cancel casting.. changing to make cancel cast in a more viable states, then putting there, no one is using, players may as well just cast through than really use the cancel cast, because the cost of cancel casting is more than you casting through it.

as many lol you can put in your argument doesn't mean that the argument has a lot of substance...

Im not sure you have any idea about what your posting actually, putting it in the nicest way possible. Ofc you need interupts to shutdown weapons lol.

KD's + blackout are not even viable options, because any rit with half a brain is gonna stand quite far behind his team, just spamming weapons and dropping spirits. So for any kind of KD/blackout you would have to overextend a long way to go and get the rit = you get killed.

Diversion and shame, doesnt really shut down weapons either lol. It can prevent a rit from casting for 6 seconds. So the rit just stands there and doesnt use any energy, no big problem. Not to mention the fact that if diversion/shame get d shot, u now have NO shutdown at all = weapons up all game = you never kill = you lose.

Also why do you say "you are only using the meta", ofc people use the meta!! i mean its pretty obvious why, stuff becomes meta because its the best! not rocket science is it...



You're not seeing the bigger picture either here, lets assume now that your idea gets implemented, and canceling a skill costs 50% energy only. Monks entire bars apart from infuse/spiritbond/aegis (which u cant interupt anyway) are 5e skills, they can cancel these pretty much constantly if it only costs 2 energy to do so.

*This means a mesmer is probably going to waste 75% of his interupts on faked skills.
* This means that the mesmer is not really doing anything.
* This means that people wont take mesmers.

Your idea is silly because it would basically remove the mesmer from the game in all regards except as a spike character. Which is stupid cos the ridiculous damage/spike ability of mesmers that you can see atm was never intended, its just an unfortunate consequence of power creep.

Much like fate, im gonna stop posting here, because you dont seem to understand how guild wars works so argueing with you is just a waste of time. you cant see that you are wrong and clearly are not gonna back down.

what's the different now if people bring, patient spirit, 1/4 casting skill.. it doesn't make mesmer obsolete, because mesmer is not just defined by interrupt..

I think you don't see the whole picture, because you are using skill countering skill.. it becomes theorycraft, without any substance really on the mechanics of cancel casting, that it is not viable due to high cost atm.... same as your meaning of interrupt not viable.....

if interrupt can be viable, why can't skill cancel?

It is already viable.

Read this very carefully: your suggestion will make players abuse cancelling until they get a fast cast . Read it. Now reply to that, instead of falsely accusing everyone for not having an argument, you have never addressed any of the issues and just said we don't understand what we're talking about. Think again.

What kind of argument is patient spirit? much like you say mesmer isn't defined by rupts, a monk isn't defined by Patient Spirit. 1 sec cast guardian is what rupters look for, which is why you cancel guardian.

Go observe. For gods sake, just go observe. And stop wasting our time by trying to save face, you claim none of us have arguments and yet you hold zero credibility, since your only reasoning to both me and floor is that you think we don't know anything. We take our time to reply to each point you make and explain to you in detail what would happen if your idea gets implemented. You just carry on as if our valid points don't exist and your idea is the redeeming light in a game where you get all your skills interrupted because you're a bad player.

Learn weapon sets, learn when to cancel and stop trolling.

EDIT: I know I said I'd stop posting here but this was my last hehe. This was a better sign off

skill cancel has been nerfed in the past (gole cancel, for example), because it was widely (ab) used to get a fc effect 1 or 2 s casts to avoid rupts.
what you are suggesting is even funnier and by far more ridiculous than the gole cancel spam used to be. it would make more sense had you suggested to remove rupts from the game. it is often down to luck when you cant fake, as well as the interrupters connection (esp if they are a twitch rupter), but that's part of the game. there's far too many skills that need a counter in the form of a rupt. I suppose you can look forward to gw2, which will have no rupts of any sort.

but making a suggestion such as this is so completely devoid of thought that the thread should've been closed already.

i mean, seriously?

Oh, it's true. I forgot that now even with the energy Glyphs you'll lose 'uses', so you can't do it indefinitely with them. And it has been over 3 years since the change!

But even with that, it's better to keep the energy loss. A cancel can be useful, and so it should have a cost ,being it either losing the energy or uses in a an active lesser energy glyph effect, or the glyph of energy effect.

But the effect itself still works. And yo ucan cancel without losing energy for the two uses of a lesser energy glyph and the one use of a glyph of energy.

u can still do it with glyph...

exactly what I feel.. because you are saying a skill is countering a skill...there is no different from what I have been saying.. that a skill is countering a skill.. if you found my argument is invalid.. then it is just the same as how I feel your argument is being invalid.. which didn't really address any point to my double costing of skill canceling...so I said it is just theorycrafting, but you still keep arguing on that point, as if your point is valid

casting without being interrupt, and fasting casting with interrupt.. how is that different?

so abusing interrupt is ok, but not abusing cancel casting..if you really want to see it that way more clearly.

The point is, I am not saying that skill cancel must be no cost.. I am just saying that it should be made more viable.....50% en return...to make it more balance.

cancel cast now shelter 2 times is 50 en...
cancel cast 2 times guardian is 10 en....and if you can't cast the guardian on time due to cancel casting... then you may have already been kd locked, or spike to the death..

and you say which is why you cancel cast guardian, but you cannot really cancel cast guardian, because once you do.. you will not have any en left...then what is the point of cancel casting anymore?... to fake that interrupt?...and what even worst is what if the interrupter not being faked?

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it wasn't really an exploit when players can cancel casting without consuming a use under a glyph.... it is just because a dumb mesmer can't interrupt the glyph...

So make the game easier for casters? Nah. I'd like it better if people just learned to position themselves better, and don't cast in a rhythm

cast in a rhythm?...as if skill canceling is casting in a rhythm

every decent player has an own rhythm, if u don't then theres some serious issue.

Interrupts have they're place in PvE.
People grandly appreciate them for they're efficiency at well ...''Interrupting'' (lol)...

Most skills that foes will use that have a great spiking ability are to be interrupted.

In PvP, people will always complain, spamming '' ZOMG YOU HAXXOR INTERRUPTED MY LONG ~ AS HELL SPELL !''.
But hey, Thats the game.