I think it's quite obvious that playing melee in Jade Quarry is pretty useless :
- shrines have antimelee and NPC's usually kill you even before you get on it
- turtles/juggernaut use a skill ( which is quite bugged considering it's randomly since last update) to teleport you away
- cap times compared to skills recapping shrines in 3 sec
My solution would be more about " Bug Fixes" considering that's the only thing they seem to do :
- Make turtles/Juggernaut use a skill on any target in range, whether it's melee or ranger damage. For example, something like : "Target is kded for 3 sec and receive 100 damage" with a recharge of 7 sec could be an option. That skill would obviously have no cast time.
- Split NPC's on shrines from start. It's way too easy to cap shrines by using 1-2 ranged skills without even getting hit.
Waiting your comments..
Jade Quarry : Melee vs Ranged Damage
Missing HB
Swingline
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Missing HB
I think it's quite obvious that playing melee in Jade Quarry is pretty useless :
- shrines have antimelee and NPC's usually kill you even before you get on it - turtles/juggernaut use a skill ( which is quite bugged considering it's randomly since last update) to teleport you away - cap times compared to skills recapping shrines in 3 sec My solution would be more about " Bug Fixes" considering that's the only thing they seem to do : - Make turtles/Juggernaut use a skill on any target in range, whether it's melee or ranger damage. For example, something like : "Target is kded for 3 sec and receive 100 damage" with a recharge of 7 sec could be an option. That skill would obviously have no cast time. - Split NPC's on shrines from start. It's way too easy to cap shrines by using 1-2 ranged skills without even getting hit. Waiting your comments.. |
I see dervs just walk into shrines and rape the npcs but hey they are dervs lol. Sins are more or less used to gank potential enemy shrine cappers and finish off shrines. Warriors on the other hand are quite underpowered in this game format. These are the main focuses for melee along with harassing enemy carries.
hankey
meh when i roll the dervish capping far shot shrines is fairly easy, quarrys not so much but thats not a big concern of mine. what i really hate is the inability to attack immidiately after a shrine is capped (not sure if ur referring to this particular problem), when u get 'cant use this skill (monster whatever)'. THAT is frustrating but i guess it is to give players a chance to defend it. other than that im with swingline on melee focuses in jq nad dont really have a problem with the turtle/jug defense system. melee in jq is not at all useless imo on more than one occasion iv had teams of 5 melees and won fairly easily, but that also depends on how bad of a team you're opposing
Jeydra
Most people who complain about melee players in JQ play builds that are vulnerable to good melee ...
drkn
Pure wars suck in JQ, that's true. But apart of that...
Dervs are capping machines, pretty invulnerable unless get severely stripped or get serious melee hate from players. Sins are the best at, well, sinning, not capping, but ganking opponents' carriers and monks is a viable role to play, given you do it right.
I perceive it as an issue similar to 'why monk is better at healing than a mesmer' - every class has its niche, its role to play, and trying to utilize another one, especially in PvP, won't, and shouldn't, work.
Well, everyone can do something in JQ except for paragons, but that's totally another thing.
Dervs are capping machines, pretty invulnerable unless get severely stripped or get serious melee hate from players. Sins are the best at, well, sinning, not capping, but ganking opponents' carriers and monks is a viable role to play, given you do it right.
I perceive it as an issue similar to 'why monk is better at healing than a mesmer' - every class has its niche, its role to play, and trying to utilize another one, especially in PvP, won't, and shouldn't, work.
Well, everyone can do something in JQ except for paragons, but that's totally another thing.
Our Virus
I see ALOT of 100b wars cap shrines pretty fast. And I'm pretty sure someone can make a creative earth shaker KD chain to keep all the shrine npc down until he kills them.
Swingline
Those 2 war elites have hit my mind in the past for jq but I never see them. The wars in jq are either trying to gank people or cap shrines and fail horribly. If I were playing one I would go ES and cap shrines but any other build seems less likely besides 100b. ES could cap quarrys but someone else would have to go in first to take the heat from the anti melee.
hankey
i've seen very few 100bs in jq and they actually sound like a good idea but yeah they cant cap a quarry alone, a clumsiness and a kd and it might be game over. think a good melee option in the build is a fast snare for those damned bombers and westrels to take them out before arriving within quarry range.
drkn
Still, wars can kill carriers or enemy monks, either by going fully /A with daggers, or by hammering the shit out of monks (especially the healing/protting type) and mesmers, utilizing some shadow step, thus letting bombers/RoJers/mesmers do their job at capping more effectively. In the end, they could even serve as a meatshield to soak up the first bits of damage so that RoJ monk behind may cap the shrine and survive more easily, becoming actual tanks - but then again, that'd require some intelligent communication between players in JQ, and, well, it's not that common there.
Wars are still in a better situation than paragons - sure, they can Fall Back and Make Haste their carriers or cappers, but that's pretty much everything.
Wars are still in a better situation than paragons - sure, they can Fall Back and Make Haste their carriers or cappers, but that's pretty much everything.
Whirl E Vic
Vow of Silence is hilarious for capping shrines and annoying all of the casters.
But I kinda agree with previous- wars don't really have a similar alternative.
Also, if you hit the juggernaut in the back in melee it often won't use the tele-kd skill, since you aren't blocking it. so you could conceivably be a carrier killer if you chose that role.
But I kinda agree with previous- wars don't really have a similar alternative.
Also, if you hit the juggernaut in the back in melee it often won't use the tele-kd skill, since you aren't blocking it. so you could conceivably be a carrier killer if you chose that role.
Jeydra
JQ matches aren't just capping shrines. You can defend shrines, kill carriers, run carriers and finally kill opposing players. Melee excels at the last one.
Some people might argue that killing opposing players is a waste of time. Maybe, but these same people tend to play defenseless casters who will die to a good melee. Think about it. You have to run Superior runes (or your RoJ / Chaos Storm etc won't cap shrines), and that immediately makes you vulnerable to melee, especially if they have snare / KD. How can you cap a shrine if you can never make it there? How will you deal with an Assassin with Leaping Mantis Sting who's camping just outside the portal, other than not go out that portal?
N/A bombers are some of the most common and most metagamed against builds in the game, but they WILL die to a Wastrel's Sin. In fact, the same applies to just about ever meta build out there. I believe melee is underrated, and exert their influence in a game in their own way.
Some people might argue that killing opposing players is a waste of time. Maybe, but these same people tend to play defenseless casters who will die to a good melee. Think about it. You have to run Superior runes (or your RoJ / Chaos Storm etc won't cap shrines), and that immediately makes you vulnerable to melee, especially if they have snare / KD. How can you cap a shrine if you can never make it there? How will you deal with an Assassin with Leaping Mantis Sting who's camping just outside the portal, other than not go out that portal?
N/A bombers are some of the most common and most metagamed against builds in the game, but they WILL die to a Wastrel's Sin. In fact, the same applies to just about ever meta build out there. I believe melee is underrated, and exert their influence in a game in their own way.
Missing HB
Yet, you know as me that the team with most melee usually lose. Why? Because people can recap shrines from 2 sides : the down one and the up one, without even getting hit..
Let's say the problem is that a team with few melee chars cannot win once opponents( assuming they got more cappers) have all shrines... which happens always after 2-3mn
Let's say the problem is that a team with few melee chars cannot win once opponents( assuming they got more cappers) have all shrines... which happens always after 2-3mn
drkn
Actually, i have no problems in killing sins, wars, dervs or rangers 1v1 with my monk in JQ. I use a Mo/Me variant of RoJ with my own tweaks, and unless i'm really unlucky and get interrupted/knocked down at least twice in a row, it's the physicals who flee or die, not me with 16 in smiting.
The real problem with people fighting other players in JQ is their targets. As long as they camp near a quarry, prioritizing monks, then mesmers and necros, over anything else - it's fine. In the meantime, they should harass enemy carriers. But a warrior bashing heads with another war or derv is probably the worst thing you can see in JQ, maybe except most trappers.
More so, with necro bomber being the only exception, it's much much better to interrupt and/or disable RoJ monks / Chaos Storm mesmers than actually kill them, letting them regain energy, health and mobility. Said Mo/Me has three signets, one of which is Signet of Distraction, effectively rendering any other RoJ monk useless for additional 12s. It's usually enough time to just wand him down.
The real problem with people fighting other players in JQ is their targets. As long as they camp near a quarry, prioritizing monks, then mesmers and necros, over anything else - it's fine. In the meantime, they should harass enemy carriers. But a warrior bashing heads with another war or derv is probably the worst thing you can see in JQ, maybe except most trappers.
More so, with necro bomber being the only exception, it's much much better to interrupt and/or disable RoJ monks / Chaos Storm mesmers than actually kill them, letting them regain energy, health and mobility. Said Mo/Me has three signets, one of which is Signet of Distraction, effectively rendering any other RoJ monk useless for additional 12s. It's usually enough time to just wand him down.
Jarin
I've seen a warrior (100b I think), and with /N he brought Well of Suffering. After he took out the middle quarry npc, he cast it, and, even though he died, he capped the shrine everytime.
Jeydra
Why wouldn't good melee knock you down at least twice in a row?
Also, ever been in matches where your N/A bombers and Mesmer Chaos Storm nukers and RoJ Monks all fail to cap a shrine because it's defended by one WoH Monk and one LS Monk? Suddenly all those spells that kill NPCs fast are utterly ineffective. How are you going to take the shrine now? Maybe a team with all melee characters isn't going to win, but then neither is a team with all cappers.
Also, ever been in matches where your N/A bombers and Mesmer Chaos Storm nukers and RoJ Monks all fail to cap a shrine because it's defended by one WoH Monk and one LS Monk? Suddenly all those spells that kill NPCs fast are utterly ineffective. How are you going to take the shrine now? Maybe a team with all melee characters isn't going to win, but then neither is a team with all cappers.
drkn
Quote:
| Why wouldn't good melee knock you down at least twice in a row? |
I sure been to matches like that. If the opponents use two monks to keep a quarry up, they're wasting resources - i usually let them keep their Purple and cap everything else, if there are two WoH (or other heal/prot) monks at one spot.
If there's only one heal/prot monk, usually double RoJ (Arcane Echo > Fall Back, always) and a well-timed interrupt do the trick. Yeah, playing a mesmer for three years pays off in terms of rupting WoH.
Prestige
Assassins are the 1 vs 1 type of class, they'll go off and kill Alone targets (or sometimes more).
Dervishs, just go and kill mobs (Which explains they're capping ability).
Warriors are easily killed by almost everything, you can't expect to own anything with them.
While I only play Mesmers in Jade Quarry, In my opinion : They are one of the best at capping,killing and defending.
Dervishs, just go and kill mobs (Which explains they're capping ability).
Warriors are easily killed by almost everything, you can't expect to own anything with them.
While I only play Mesmers in Jade Quarry, In my opinion : They are one of the best at capping,killing and defending.
Missing HB
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jeydra
Why wouldn't good melee knock you down at least twice in a row?
Also, ever been in matches where your N/A bombers and Mesmer Chaos Storm nukers and RoJ Monks all fail to cap a shrine because it's defended by one WoH Monk and one LS Monk? Suddenly all those spells that kill NPCs fast are utterly ineffective. How are you going to take the shrine now? 2-Maybe a team with all melee characters isn't going to win, but then neither is a team with all cappers. |
2- Then how easy is it to split on other shrines ?? You obviously really should play tactic formats ....
Swingline
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Originally Posted by Prestige
Assassins are the 1 vs 1 type of class, they'll go off and kill Alone targets (or sometimes more).
Dervishs, just go and kill mobs (Which explains they're capping ability). Warriors are easily killed by almost everything, you can't expect to own anything with them. While I only play Mesmers in Jade Quarry, In my opinion : They are one of the best at capping,killing and defending. |
Jeydra
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Originally Posted by drkn
For instance, cause i knock him down first, or interrupt him, or dismiss Cripple from myself making some builds useless in terms of knocking down any further. On rare occassions, i do get knocked down in a row, being completely helpless, but i'm quite a good monk, in JQ at least, and my build has some anti-physical goodies
I sure been to matches like that. If the opponents use two monks to keep a quarry up, they're wasting resources - i usually let them keep their Purple and cap everything else, if there are two WoH (or other heal/prot) monks at one spot. If there's only one heal/prot monk, usually double RoJ (Arcane Echo > Fall Back, always) and a well-timed interrupt do the trick. Yeah, playing a mesmer for three years pays off in terms of rupting WoH. |
Obviously if the two Monks are good they won't stay at purple if there's no one threatening the shrine right? If you moved to other shrines too they have achieved something. While you are moving around you are vulnerable to getting snared, getting followed by a Monk and (oh the irony) enemy melee. As for interrupting WoH, you place a lot of confidence on doing something you only have a small window to do (he can cast WoH while you're casting RoJ). Interrupt on WoH will not kill the NPC either if he has other heals / prots. Besides, he can get a HCT and then you'll be staring at the shrine for 20s wondering how you're going to cap it.
A single melee is not going to kill two WoH Monks, but it will be a big asset in taking down one Monk - something none of the meta bars can easily do. Teams with melee tend to lose more than teams without simply because there are so many bad melee in JQ, not to mention the recent surge of A/Me bots with Shadow Refuge and Energy Tap.
drkn
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| Can't be done; Wastrel's knocks you down first |
As mentioned earlier, i sometimes do get knocklocked. Most often not, though, be it either because i can utilize my bar and i'm aware of the surroundings, or that your theoretical 'good melee' is so very rare in JQ.
Elnino
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Originally Posted by Jeydra
Can't be done... ... will not hit good melee...
...so many bad melee |
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jeydra
A single melee is not going to kill two WoH Monks, but it will be a big asset in taking down one Monk - something none of the meta bars can easily do.
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Jeydra
No good Wastrel's user will queue Wastrel's from the limits of range unless he is certain you cannot dodge it, so dodging Wastrel's by casting Breeze on yourself is null. I bet it's because good melee is rare in JQ. How many melee in JQ do you even see with two KDs (or even one)?
Mesmers can do many things in JQ but they can't do several things: one, defend shrines (they can defend against some builds, fail to defend against others); two, run shrines and three, kill other players. One of the most stupid sights in JQ is two Mesmers trying to kill one another, they just spam Wastrel's all the time and get nowhere for a minute. Unfortunately that also means a Mesmer can't kill another Mesmer who's nuking shrines / killing carriers. Also you do realize that four of the five shrine NPCs are usually nuked to death and there's only one alive right ...
Mesmers can do many things in JQ but they can't do several things: one, defend shrines (they can defend against some builds, fail to defend against others); two, run shrines and three, kill other players. One of the most stupid sights in JQ is two Mesmers trying to kill one another, they just spam Wastrel's all the time and get nowhere for a minute. Unfortunately that also means a Mesmer can't kill another Mesmer who's nuking shrines / killing carriers. Also you do realize that four of the five shrine NPCs are usually nuked to death and there's only one alive right ...
Swingline
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Originally Posted by Jeydra
No good Wastrel's user will queue Wastrel's from the limits of range unless he is certain you cannot dodge it, so dodging Wastrel's by casting Breeze on yourself is null. I bet it's because good melee is rare in JQ. How many melee in JQ do you even see with two KDs (or even one)?
Mesmers can do many things in JQ but they can't do several things: one, defend shrines (they can defend against some builds, fail to defend against others); two, run shrines and three, kill other players. One of the most stupid sights in JQ is two Mesmers trying to kill one another, they just spam Wastrel's all the time and get nowhere for a minute. Unfortunately that also means a Mesmer can't kill another Mesmer who's nuking shrines / killing carriers. Also you do realize that four of the five shrine NPCs are usually nuked to death and there's only one alive right ... |
Shayne Hawke
I would still like to see a tagline on that new carrier skill that said something like, "If target is in adjacent (nearby?) range, that target shadow steps away from the carrier," just to prevent players from doing some kind of odd bodyblocking maneuver, which is likely the biggest part to why the current skill even exists.
Jeydra
High set, and if the Mesmer is choosing to stand and let you spam on him instead of running away then he should be achieving something that you cannot stop. You cannot stop him from capping shrine (unless you interrupt Chaos Storm) and you cannot stop him from killing carrier. Nor can you kill them while running away, because they can easily cast something like Illusion of Haste or Dash or Kitah's Burden (on you, of course) to remove your Wastrel's. Mesmers can't kill other Mesmers in a reasonably short time. Sure they can kill each other, but that's like saying a Monk can kill a Mesmer without self-heal by wanding.
Missing HB
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Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke
I would still like to see a tagline on that new carrier skill that said something like, "If target is in adjacent (nearby?) range, that target shadow steps away from the carrier," just to prevent players from doing some kind of odd bodyblocking maneuver, which is likely the biggest part to why the current skill even exists.
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Elnino
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Originally Posted by Jeydra
No good Wastrel's user will queue Wastrel's from the limits of range unless he is certain you cannot dodge it, so dodging Wastrel's by casting Breeze on yourself is null. I bet it's because good melee is rare in JQ. How many melee in JQ do you even see with two KDs (or even one)?
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Quote:
| Mesmers can do many things in JQ but they can't do several things: one, defend shrines (they can defend against some builds, fail to defend against others); two, run shrines and three, kill other players. |
Quote:
| One of the most stupid sights in JQ is two Mesmers trying to kill one another, they just spam Wastrel's all the time and get nowhere for a minute. Unfortunately that also means a Mesmer can't kill another Mesmer who's nuking shrines / killing carriers. |
Quote:
| Also you do realize that four of the five shrine NPCs are usually nuked to death and there's only one alive right ... |
Jeydra
You realize that this thread is about how melee in JQ is underpowered right - and good melee being rare has nothing to do with balance in JQ.
As for Mesmers, your statement was "mesmers can do anything". The fact that there's no one build that can do anything is an excellent sign of balance in JQ, right? Letting the shrine NPCs kill the Mesmer is hardly an achievement; now the NPCs have nothing to cast on and will therefore take full damage from Wastrel's (not to mention Chaos Storm). And I don't believe that you "usually" manage to keep 3 NPCs alive per shrine. There are 5 NPCs to defend and AoE hits hard and furious. When two cappers strike at the same time how do you expect that two Monks will save more than one NPC?
As for Mesmers, your statement was "mesmers can do anything". The fact that there's no one build that can do anything is an excellent sign of balance in JQ, right? Letting the shrine NPCs kill the Mesmer is hardly an achievement; now the NPCs have nothing to cast on and will therefore take full damage from Wastrel's (not to mention Chaos Storm). And I don't believe that you "usually" manage to keep 3 NPCs alive per shrine. There are 5 NPCs to defend and AoE hits hard and furious. When two cappers strike at the same time how do you expect that two Monks will save more than one NPC?
drkn
Jeydra - i believe you're making one wrong assumption here, at least regarding the melee (and, especially, wastrel sins): JQ players are not experienced, skilled HA/GvG/RA players with great tactics. Great most of them are 'just' PvErs who got their JQ builds from PvX, using their favorite profession - even if it's useless, thus we sometimes see paras in JQ, as well as loads of wars.
The experienced players, who want to maximize their profits from JQ, most likely roll monks or bombers, maybe mesmers or dervishes now, but if you purposely run a para, war or sin in JQ, given its current state, there's something wrong with you... and i suppose you will waste lots of Wastrel's Collapses in the meantime.
Most 'good' players run something that is viable in the given format, that partially is why they're good. I do agree with you, that a 'good and skilled sin' wouldn't waste Collapse for nothing, but, meh, it's JQ...
I've already started frapsing my JQ matches, with the ultimate goal to create a video compilation of smiter's power in this format, and sooner or later i will stumble upon Collapse sin dying to me 1v1, as it happens quite often.
The main failure of most protting/healing monks is keeping up the middle NPC, making it so much easier for most cappers to eventually get the shrine. The NPCs to keep are the ones from the edges, if it's not possible to save the whole shrine.
Anyway, the solutions - two RoJs? Prot two NPCs instead of one, or even WoH two instead of one. Two bombers? Quite hard to time it right to bomb at exactly the same time, and usually it's enough to remove conditions after the bomber's attack. Two melees, even dervs? Probably the easiest to counter, even as a solo monk, though hard on a smiter. Two mesmers is probably the only thing that can penetrate the monks' prots, but that usually involves stripping prots, burning mana or interrupting - and there are easy solutions to each of that problems. Oh, and regarding Wastrel's Worry - spamming Reversal of Damage works wonders.
The experienced players, who want to maximize their profits from JQ, most likely roll monks or bombers, maybe mesmers or dervishes now, but if you purposely run a para, war or sin in JQ, given its current state, there's something wrong with you... and i suppose you will waste lots of Wastrel's Collapses in the meantime.
Most 'good' players run something that is viable in the given format, that partially is why they're good. I do agree with you, that a 'good and skilled sin' wouldn't waste Collapse for nothing, but, meh, it's JQ...
I've already started frapsing my JQ matches, with the ultimate goal to create a video compilation of smiter's power in this format, and sooner or later i will stumble upon Collapse sin dying to me 1v1, as it happens quite often.
Quote:
| When two cappers strike at the same time how do you expect that two Monks will save more than one NPC? |
Anyway, the solutions - two RoJs? Prot two NPCs instead of one, or even WoH two instead of one. Two bombers? Quite hard to time it right to bomb at exactly the same time, and usually it's enough to remove conditions after the bomber's attack. Two melees, even dervs? Probably the easiest to counter, even as a solo monk, though hard on a smiter. Two mesmers is probably the only thing that can penetrate the monks' prots, but that usually involves stripping prots, burning mana or interrupting - and there are easy solutions to each of that problems. Oh, and regarding Wastrel's Worry - spamming Reversal of Damage works wonders.
Jeydra
Are you saying that melee should be buffed in JQ because most players there are PvE'ers who aren't experienced PvP'ers?
And see, if you save only the outer NPCs (which makes sense) you will not have three NPCs alive. You will have one, or at most two. A 2-NPC shrine defended by two Monks is still nigh impossible to kill without melee, in fact it can almost be defended indefinitely by one Monk against 2 meta players.
And see, if you save only the outer NPCs (which makes sense) you will not have three NPCs alive. You will have one, or at most two. A 2-NPC shrine defended by two Monks is still nigh impossible to kill without melee, in fact it can almost be defended indefinitely by one Monk against 2 meta players.
Liability
melee is fun in jq
mobility can be an issue without shadow steps though
and smite monks or smite hybrids can't handle melee
mobility can be an issue without shadow steps though
and smite monks or smite hybrids can't handle melee
Elnino
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Originally Posted by Jeydra
You realize that this thread is about how melee in JQ is underpowered right - and good melee being rare has nothing to do with balance in JQ.
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Quote:
| As for Mesmers, your statement was "mesmers can do anything". The fact that there's no one build that can do anything is an excellent sign of balance in JQ, right? |
Quote:
| Letting the shrine NPCs kill the Mesmer is hardly an achievement |
Quote:
| And I don't believe that you "usually" manage to keep 3 NPCs alive per shrine. There are 5 NPCs to defend and AoE hits hard and furious. When two cappers strike at the same time how do you expect that two Monks will save more than one NPC? |
Jeydra
Do you intend to discuss the issues raised in the OP, or are you just posting for the sake of posting? I'm seriously tempted to conclude the latter.
Shayne Hawke
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Originally Posted by Missing HB
Yes i agree with that, but it's plain ridiculous if you just think at how easily turtle/juggernaut can die to meta ranged bars ( the ones that work already really good at shrines capping), especially when you get no monk in the party ( the format is random....)
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Missing HB
Then why not make NPC's split or unball faster on shrines.... it's really a joke when a roj monk or a bomber is capping it in 3 sec...( and plz, no avoid answering with sentences like " play a woh monk " or " catch him on rez point " )..
Actually, the big problem is the roj monk, which can also save shrines/turtle....It's just dealing too much damage for such low healths NPC's....
Actually, the big problem is the roj monk, which can also save shrines/turtle....It's just dealing too much damage for such low healths NPC's....
Jeydra
What's wrong with capping a shrine in 3s?
RoJ Monks are vulnerable to interrupts, heals when capping shrines, cannot heal turtle through certain builds and cannot kill players. What's so overpowered about them?
RoJ Monks are vulnerable to interrupts, heals when capping shrines, cannot heal turtle through certain builds and cannot kill players. What's so overpowered about them?
Missing HB
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jeydra
What's wrong with capping a shrine in 3s?
RoJ Monks are vulnerable to interrupts, heals when capping shrines, cannot heal turtle through certain builds and cannot kill players. What's so overpowered about them? |
And a melee can't cap a shrine alone , can't cap a shrine if there is heals on it, cannot heal turtle. It can kill player , but usually it's useless considering people aren't so dumb to just go on the same shrine over and over ...
It leads you to take skills such as YAA, Wastrels , which require you to teleport to the target or even catch it.... which confirms what i said : a truly melee bar is useless
I don't know if you're trolling but you know you get points if you cap shrines right ? If it was a 100 points cap and you were rewarded 1 point for killing a player then sure i would see no problem...
But what do you want to do with 5-6 melee parties when you lose all shrines in a matter of time ? Just to say, i played RoJ monk for once in JQ with mantra and i kept recapping shrines easily , rushing and getting to a shrine in 5 sec thanks to flux... almost recapping it straight every time....
Besides, what i found a very big joke was when i waited for my oppos to finish off the shrine to just recap it easily 3 sec later.....
Jeydra
This is getting rather silly, but:
1. Since when was there an effective melee bar with no speedboost? Since when was snares / teleports not a welcome addition to a melee bar? You do realize that if a Warrior attack were buffed to apply cripple it would be a far bigger buff than if the same attack applied weakness / bleeding etc right? In fact arguably the only conditions stronger than cripple are deep wound, dazed and blind. YAA applies cripple. Wastrel's teleports you and KDs the target. They are both powerful skills for melee characters. So you use them. Saying that "but you are forced to use them" is very similar to "but you are forced to use fire attunement if you are fire ele", i.e. nonsense.
2. All viable HA, GvG, HB, TA, etc builds include at least one Monk. But there are no viable HA, GvG, HB, TA etc builds with ALL Monks (yes, even Shovespike needs a Warrior). You can't win with 5-6 melee parties in JQ, so you say melee are useless. But you can't win with 5-6 Monk parties in HA either. So Monks are useless. Agree?
You play a RoJ Monk with Mantra. Good for you. You're still vulnerable to Power Block / Psychic Distraction / Gale, now you can't run shrines (which is a big loss), you still can't heal turtles through certain builds and you still can't kill players. And you call that overpowered?
So you can wait for your opponents to finish capping a shrine and then recap it 3 seconds later. But your opponents can also wait for you to finish capping a shrine and then recap it 3 seconds later. What's your point?
1. Since when was there an effective melee bar with no speedboost? Since when was snares / teleports not a welcome addition to a melee bar? You do realize that if a Warrior attack were buffed to apply cripple it would be a far bigger buff than if the same attack applied weakness / bleeding etc right? In fact arguably the only conditions stronger than cripple are deep wound, dazed and blind. YAA applies cripple. Wastrel's teleports you and KDs the target. They are both powerful skills for melee characters. So you use them. Saying that "but you are forced to use them" is very similar to "but you are forced to use fire attunement if you are fire ele", i.e. nonsense.
2. All viable HA, GvG, HB, TA, etc builds include at least one Monk. But there are no viable HA, GvG, HB, TA etc builds with ALL Monks (yes, even Shovespike needs a Warrior). You can't win with 5-6 melee parties in JQ, so you say melee are useless. But you can't win with 5-6 Monk parties in HA either. So Monks are useless. Agree?
You play a RoJ Monk with Mantra. Good for you. You're still vulnerable to Power Block / Psychic Distraction / Gale, now you can't run shrines (which is a big loss), you still can't heal turtles through certain builds and you still can't kill players. And you call that overpowered?
So you can wait for your opponents to finish capping a shrine and then recap it 3 seconds later. But your opponents can also wait for you to finish capping a shrine and then recap it 3 seconds later. What's your point?
Elnino
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Originally Posted by Missing HB
It leads you to take skills such as YAA, Wastrels , which require you to teleport to the target or even catch it.... which confirms what i said : a truly melee bar is useless
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@Jeydra: GvG Gothspike?
