Massive Damage
Your armor is reduced by 20, but your maximum health is increased by 200.
My inital thought, eww, I dislike losing my armor xD
Flux - September 2011
Scythe Co
Reverend Dr
Taking aside degen, armor ignoring damage, and prot prayers interactions, this is near mechanically identical to a 30% reduction in healing.
bhavv
In RA you can play an invoke elly with Prot Spirit instead of Blind. Deal 'massive damage', stick prot spirit on team mates.
ErrantVenture
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Originally Posted by Reverend Dr
Taking aside degen, armor ignoring damage, and prot prayers interactions, this is near mechanically identical to a 30% reduction in healing.
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Xenomortis
At what stage in the armor calculation is the armour reduction applied?
(A test would involve other sources of armour bonuses and armour penetration...).
(A test would involve other sources of armour bonuses and armour penetration...).
lemming
I love dervishes!
I Rahavan I
I think this flux has to be the worst one for monks 
npcs in JQ die in 2 secs or less
npcs in JQ die in 2 secs or less
ErrantVenture
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Originally Posted by lemming
I love dervishes!
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Reverend Dr
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Originally Posted by bhavv
In RA you can play an invoke elly with Prot Spirit instead of Blind. Deal 'massive damage', stick prot spirit on team mates.
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bhavv
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Originally Posted by Reverend Dr
I think you mean Spirit Bond. With the 200 health increase Prot Spirit is virtually the same for armor susceptible damage, and horribly ineffective for armor ignoring damage.
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Ah yes, and armor ignoring damage rarely hits for that much, so I'll try spirit bond next.
Hmm, but invoke is doing 177 damage on squishies ...
Reverend Dr
Yeah, something is glitched then if you are pulling 177 (or someone isn't wearing armor).
85 base damage (14 air) 25% pen 60 armor is 110 or 18.33333% of total health at 600
85 base damage 25% pen 40 armor is 143 or 17.875% at 800 health
In either case prot spirit reduces damage to 10% of max, so prior to the flux prot spirit reduced invoke by 8.33333% now it reduces it by 7.875%, being less effective now than it was before. Spirit bond, as a converse will trigger on far more things.
85 base damage (14 air) 25% pen 60 armor is 110 or 18.33333% of total health at 600
85 base damage 25% pen 40 armor is 143 or 17.875% at 800 health
In either case prot spirit reduces damage to 10% of max, so prior to the flux prot spirit reduced invoke by 8.33333% now it reduces it by 7.875%, being less effective now than it was before. Spirit bond, as a converse will trigger on far more things.
Xenomortis
Armor penetration has always been slightly glitchy; I'm hitting 60 AR targets for 159 damage with a rank 14 Invoke. AP often removes more armour than it should.
Also, the armour reduction is applied before Cracked Armour.
Also, the armour reduction is applied before Cracked Armour.
ErrantVenture
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Originally Posted by Xenomortis
Armor penetration has always been slightly glitchy; I'm hitting 60 AR targets for 159 damage with a rank 14 Invoke. AP often removes more armour than it should.
Also, the armour reduction is applied before Cracked Armour. |
bhavv
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Reverend Dr
Yeah, something is glitched then if you are pulling 177 (or someone isn't wearing armor).
85 base damage (14 air) 25% pen 60 armor is 110 or 18.33333% of total health at 600 85 base damage 25% pen 40 armor is 143 or 17.875% at 800 health In either case prot spirit reduces damage to 10% of max, so prior to the flux prot spirit reduced invoke by 8.33333% now it reduces it by 7.875%, being less effective now than it was before. Spirit bond, as a converse will trigger on far more things. |
StormDragonZ
I hate to sound completely newbie, but if I played on my Mesmer, would I have 40 armor?
Scarlett Romanov
Anyone know if the armor reduction applies to npcs in JQ and FA? I'd assume no.
FoxBat
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Scarlett Romanov
Anyone know if the armor reduction applies to npcs in JQ and FA? I'd assume no.
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ErrantVenture
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Originally Posted by StormDragonZ
I hate to sound completely newbie, but if I played on my Mesmer, would I have 40 armor?
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Scarlett Romanov
Anyone know if the armor reduction applies to npcs in JQ and FA? I'd assume no.
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I Rahavan I
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Scarlett Romanov
Anyone know if the armor reduction applies to npcs in JQ and FA? I'd assume no.
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Missing HB
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Originally Posted by Reverend Dr
Taking aside degen, armor ignoring damage, and prot prayers interactions, this is near mechanically identical to a 30% reduction in healing.
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Also, what about these terrible jokes :
- killing blue team on 1v1 koth in HA
- teams in RA dying faster to monk teams
lemming
I could be wrong, but I can't imagine that the condition pressure component of 3 melee builds are going to scale well with the Flux.
AndrewSX
So this month the meta will be plain simple massive damage over hexes/armor-ignoring one and degeneration?
miriforst
Oh thats pretty funny, now one should really bring a crab pet into pvp.
"being based on japaneese history... So here is this giant enemy crab! And you attack its weak point for massive damage.
Pretty funny if that is what they are referencing to.
"being based on japaneese history... So here is this giant enemy crab! And you attack its weak point for massive damage.
Pretty funny if that is what they are referencing to.
noughtyous
Am I correct in assuming mesmers and necro's are at a huge disadvantage as most of their skills do not benefit from a loss of armor, but they themselves just have become alot more squishy?
Lol professions being favored damage dealers in HM should be disfavored in PvP this month, me thinks.
skills like 'watch yourself' or 'stand your ground' and 'spirit bond' become very desirable?
Lol professions being favored damage dealers in HM should be disfavored in PvP this month, me thinks.
skills like 'watch yourself' or 'stand your ground' and 'spirit bond' become very desirable?
TiagoS1
Great. Now people don't want to play monk.
MetalMan
superdefence spikes or superdamage pressure builds?
fun month.
fun month.
Lil Leena
OK...Can someone explain this to me in dummy terms please?
If I monk, my usual equip is full Disciples then a shield for whatever situation and a sword with a def mod.
I understand that if I run +hp runes that my armour is reduced to 40 but if I run the correct equip does that basically drop me down to 60 again?
Sorry if that makes no sense but clarity would be appreciated :3
If I monk, my usual equip is full Disciples then a shield for whatever situation and a sword with a def mod.
I understand that if I run +hp runes that my armour is reduced to 40 but if I run the correct equip does that basically drop me down to 60 again?
Sorry if that makes no sense but clarity would be appreciated :3
Xenomortis
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Originally Posted by ErrantVenture
Wrong. The cracked armour is being applied before the environment effect so you're going to see rangers, sins, and dervs at around 40-50 armor (along with casters which will be down at 40 on their wand sets)
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Reverend Dr
Yeah, something is glitched then if you are pulling 177 (or someone isn't wearing armor).
85 base damage (14 air) 25% pen 60 armor is 110 or 18.33333% of total health at 600 85 base damage 25% pen 40 armor is 143 or 17.875% at 800 health |
FWIW:
159 and 177 from Invoke at 14 and 16 respectively on a 60AR target suggest either the armour penetration is removing 16 armour instead of 10 (quite a big discrepancy, usually it's only 1 armour out or something) or that the armour penetration is being applied to the 60 base (removing 16* armour) before the flux is applied (taking armour down to the observed 24). Clearly one of these is more sensible. Summoning a level 13 Bone Fiend (has 40 armour according to the wiki and confirmed using Flare) then hitting it with Invoke Lightning confirms the latter; you deal the predicted 143 damage.
This also implies that the flux's reduction is put at the very end of the armour calculation. This is consistent with what might have been initially (if perhaps, naively) expected.
*25% penetration on a 60AR target is one of those irregularities, it will remove 16 armour rather than 15.
TLDR
This flux is functionally equivalent to "You have +200 health but whenever you take armour sensitive damage it is increased by 41%"
Fluffy Kittens
yay more trip derv/invoke in GvG in HA that's exactly what we all wanted!!!
floor
hopefully split mesmers will see less play, since this flux nerfs IoP and mesmers damage options generally, the flag pushing we have presently with a split mesmer and often 2 other snare characters is incedibly boring. Probably more so than the triple dervish metagame we saw 3-4 months ago, at least then people were less bothered with flag pushing and made a conscious effort to kill the other team (and were able to do so).
Now every team has a mesmer with two snares, a cripshot ranger and either a water ele or a blood necro with snares. The whole thing is just incredibly boring, the battle has become about spending 26 mins trying to cap a flag through an endless spam of hex snares and cripple, and then buttonmash lord damage for 2 minutes, since a large percentage of games are going all the way to the tiebreaker again.
tl;dr. I hate split mesmers, they are almost impossible to kill and extremely boring to face. I hope this meta will make them go away at least for a month, although in reality they probably wont cos they provide so much utility.
Now every team has a mesmer with two snares, a cripshot ranger and either a water ele or a blood necro with snares. The whole thing is just incredibly boring, the battle has become about spending 26 mins trying to cap a flag through an endless spam of hex snares and cripple, and then buttonmash lord damage for 2 minutes, since a large percentage of games are going all the way to the tiebreaker again.
tl;dr. I hate split mesmers, they are almost impossible to kill and extremely boring to face. I hope this meta will make them go away at least for a month, although in reality they probably wont cos they provide so much utility.
Xenomortis
Oh, the health boost behaves like other health changes so the effect of Death Penalty on health is weakened; 15% DP is now more like 10%.
Flameseeker
So does the hp increase nerf AP spike or the lower armor actually improve its damage far beyond the hp increase?
MetalMan
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Xenomortis
This flux is functionally equivalent to "You have +200 health but whenever you take armour sensitive damage it is increased by 41%"
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I'm not sure how much damage the AP/RtP spike does, so I'll say 600 since it usually kills targets with that much health.
I'd say 80% of that damage is affected by armor, so that takes it to 480.
480*1.41 = 676.8.
Add in the roughly 120 damage of armor ignoring, you get around 800 damage.
Avg health of a char is 600, +200 = 800.
TL;DR: It basically scales identically with these (highly assumed) numbers.
However, difference is, it'll take much more energy to recover from this sort of damage.
As someone said, it's roughly equivalent to a 30% reduction in healing.
TiagoS1
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Originally Posted by MetalMan
As someone said, it's roughly equivalent to a 30% reduction in healing.
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Xenomortis
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Originally Posted by Flameseeker
So does the hp increase nerf AP spike or the lower armor actually improve its damage far beyond the hp increase?
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The rest of the spike (almost all armour sensitive) is increased.
Overall AP Spike isn't affected that much; it will probably still kill whilst Spirit Bond and Aegis still stop it and Infuse can still save.
ErrantVenture
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Originally Posted by lemming
I could be wrong, but I can't imagine that the condition pressure component of 3 melee builds are going to scale well with the Flux.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Flameseeker
So does the hp increase nerf AP spike or the lower armor actually improve its damage far beyond the hp increase?
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jazilla
Enraged Lunge with Otyugh's Cry is fun for this flux.
Dzjudz
Since this Flux your armor rating can actually be below 0!
Flameseeker
So the next MATs we'll probably see again either triple derv for huge damage + conditions spread or watch spike teams killing anything that moves, seems refreshing...
Reverend Dr
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Xenomortis
Looking at it now, I'm pretty sure the armour reduction is applied after the effect of armour penetration is calculated.
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Quote:
| This flux is functionally equivalent to "You have +200 health but whenever you take armour sensitive damage it is increased by 41%" |