How about removing the guaranteed Ghastly stone drop from the UW chest and making it a random drop.
That way we'd get rid of this silly and meaningless need to show stones to get into UW teams, without removing the items altogether.
Make Ghastly Stones A random UW drop
Shanaeri Rynale
paK0
I actually like them as a control mechanism.
Sure, its not optimal, but its all we got. Even if they bought the stones it shows that they at least care a little.
Once you've been in practice groups with E/Mos that don't know in which order they have to put their bonds you know what hell is.
Sure, its not optimal, but its all we got. Even if they bought the stones it shows that they at least care a little.
Once you've been in practice groups with E/Mos that don't know in which order they have to put their bonds you know what hell is.
Lanier
Having x number of stones in no way shows that you know in what order to put the bonds on. You could have a really good E/Mo that doesn't have stones and therefore can't get into a group, and at the same time, you could have a really crappy E/Mo that bought the stones and can, therefore, find groups.
Vanway
people crying about stones is silly. if you want to sell your stones join an uwsc guild, then you wont need them. and if you actually have never got any stones, then your not exp. people who sell stones and then complain about it are retards.
Soulfire Ninja
/signed. I agree and love the idea!
DolyakJockey
There is no guarantee this would fix the need to "show stones".
The community created the need and making them random drops would just mean you would need more of them to show you are experienced enough to buy them. I mean to join a pug speed clear.
The community created the need and making them random drops would just mean you would need more of them to show you are experienced enough to buy them. I mean to join a pug speed clear.
Katastroff
why would they change it ? Just coz you think its silly?
While we`re at it, make marking on radar last longer so we can play tic-tac-toe during the siege in THK mission.
/very not signed on another game changing meaningless sugestion.
While we`re at it, make marking on radar last longer so we can play tic-tac-toe during the siege in THK mission.
/very not signed on another game changing meaningless sugestion.
Mechanko1
join uwsc guild. Pugs suck weiners regardless of stones.
PurpleFission
Showing stones to get into uw groups isn't a bad idea, as its pretty much the only way to gauge someone's experience in the underworld. Its probably the only way to judge if someone is a first timer when they have said they have done it 1000000 times, where's the proof? Sure there's the option for buying stones, but I would rather have someone show me 250 bought stones vs someone who shows me 0.
The only reason you wouldn't like this is if you had 0 stones to start off with. If this is the case, you should go and join a guild that does some form of underworld runs.
Regardless, if you're in a pug group, there's a 50% chance you will fail.
The only reason you wouldn't like this is if you had 0 stones to start off with. If this is the case, you should go and join a guild that does some form of underworld runs.
Regardless, if you're in a pug group, there's a 50% chance you will fail.
Sagittario
/Signed, despite I don't think Anet will change anything.
The number of stones you have says nothing and it's bane of all new, but good players.
The number of stones you have says nothing and it's bane of all new, but good players.
PurpleFission
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Sagittario
/Signed, despite I don't think Anet will change anything.
The number of stones you have says nothing and it's bane of all new, but good players. |
There's a difference between being a good player and knowing an area.
Adding stones as a random drop would destroy the original intention of having the stones. Ghastly stones are meant to be relatively rare and the dream riders are pretty strong. A better solution would be removing the stones entirely.
This is how the game works, in PvE and PvP, if you don't like how people judge your ability to play, deal with it.
The Drunkard
It won't change anything at all. Next people will be asking for trophies according to the area's mobs (which should've the norm in the first place tbh). I've showed a mini Dhuum and only one stone for shits and giggles, and still get kicked from pugs for not having enough stones.
Changing the loot system to try and fix the stupidity of people won't get far, you're better off trying to find a laid-back UW guild in-game or on the forms.
/Not-signed
Changing the loot system to try and fix the stupidity of people won't get far, you're better off trying to find a laid-back UW guild in-game or on the forms.
/Not-signed
drowze
/notsigned
It won't change a thing, because the attitude of the people that support the "stones or gtfo"-system won't change either. I have had my share of speedclears (uwsc only before the dhuum update though), and I learned I enjoy the game alot more staying very far away from them. Find a friendly guild that does uw (speedclear or not).
It won't change a thing, because the attitude of the people that support the "stones or gtfo"-system won't change either. I have had my share of speedclears (uwsc only before the dhuum update though), and I learned I enjoy the game alot more staying very far away from them. Find a friendly guild that does uw (speedclear or not).
Essence Snow
"Join an UW guild"...heck no...horrible advice (unless thats all u want to do) Most ppl in the game have guilds they like and telling them to go join a specific guild for anything is bogus.
Watch the vids on youtube then join "practice" groups until you are comfortable with an area. Then either join low req groups or buy/borrow stones. There are even stone services which u can be loaned stones for a fee. Before u know it you'll have plenty.
I still believe the whole stone thing suxs, but if not those they'll just most to something else unfortunately.
Watch the vids on youtube then join "practice" groups until you are comfortable with an area. Then either join low req groups or buy/borrow stones. There are even stone services which u can be loaned stones for a fee. Before u know it you'll have plenty.
I still believe the whole stone thing suxs, but if not those they'll just most to something else unfortunately.
pedrobds
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by PurpleFission
Showing stones to get into uw groups isn't a bad idea, as its pretty much the only way to gauge someone's experience in the underworld. Its probably the only way to judge if someone is a first timer when they have said they have done it 1000000 times, where's the proof? Sure there's the option for buying stones, but I would rather have someone show me 250 bought stones vs someone who shows me 0.
The only reason you wouldn't like this is if you had 0 stones to start off with. If this is the case, you should go and join a guild that does some form of underworld runs. Regardless, if you're in a pug group, there's a 50% chance you will fail. |
This. Yeah people buy and you really can't help that, and yeah it kinda sucks but it really is the only thing other than asking "are you exp?" and ofc the answer will always be yes. No real need to make it a drop other than to screw up this system which again, has major flaws, but then again, someone that is willing to spend 50e on 100 stones or 125e on 250 stones probably at least knows how to do their role, which is just safer than asking exp.
I will and have always stood by my opinion that stones just help regulate and are only a bad thing for inexperienced players. Practice groups are forming all the time so what makes you think you are entitled to join a group of all experienced players? It only makes sense that less experienced players play with the same skillset as with experienced players. When I started Uw I didn't join a real group for a longggg time. Only practice runs. Suck it up, its what you have to do.
In the end, the only people that should really have a problem with the stone system are those that are too poor to buy stones to fake their experience, and also do not have a lot of experience in general. So yeah, there you have it. That's my opinion and a I feel that a lot of SCr's would feel the same way about it.
Also, sidenote:
Sometimes I wish there was type of stone req for fow because I have kept every single obsidian key I have gotten from the end chest since I started doing fow hardcore in May and so far I have 120 which is the equivalent to 240 g-stones. Then there would be some kind of control for exp players.
Showtime
/signed
shud be show us your dhuum minis.
shud be show us your dhuum minis.
The Sable
I dont think there is any real problem with showing stone except that you could earn lots of them by doing certain roles and still get into a 250+ group as a first timer in a certain role because u earned those stones doing something else.
PurpleFission
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Essence Snow
"Join an UW guild"...heck no...horrible advice (unless thats all u want to do) Most ppl in the game have guilds they like and telling them to go join a specific guild for anything is bogus.
Watch the vids on youtube then join "practice" groups until you are comfortable with an area. Then either join low req groups or buy/borrow stones. There are even stone services which u can be loaned stones for a fee. Before u know it you'll have plenty. I still believe the whole stone thing suxs, but if not those they'll just most to something else unfortunately. |
Shanaeri Rynale
Asking for stones in no way shows how well a player knows their class, the game mechanics or is indeed a team player. It simply shows that someone has a set of items in their inventory. You may as well link ability to the sweet tooth title..
UWSC is not the only build that can complete the UW and shock horror.. You can even do it without using a single PVe Skill, cup cake or cons set.. Just a single nerf and the whole pack of cards comes falling down and players who can only play the one build are left with even more useless summoning stones junk.
There are much better ways to see how experienced a player is, their attitude in getting ready, their positioning, how well can they read the game, can they run multiple builds etc etc none of this can be bought and is nerf proof.
To say experience, a players ability or getting some kind of significance relies on an item that can be easily be bought is just silly.
A good player is a good player regardless of the profession or build they can play. My above idea takes us a step forward to that idea without removing a fun single, tiny aspect of the game(speed clears).
UWSC is not the only build that can complete the UW and shock horror.. You can even do it without using a single PVe Skill, cup cake or cons set.. Just a single nerf and the whole pack of cards comes falling down and players who can only play the one build are left with even more useless summoning stones junk.
There are much better ways to see how experienced a player is, their attitude in getting ready, their positioning, how well can they read the game, can they run multiple builds etc etc none of this can be bought and is nerf proof.
To say experience, a players ability or getting some kind of significance relies on an item that can be easily be bought is just silly.
A good player is a good player regardless of the profession or build they can play. My above idea takes us a step forward to that idea without removing a fun single, tiny aspect of the game(speed clears).
Venganza
Do what I do, refuse to join an idiot team that asks for stones, since that almost invariably shows how nub they are.
Most of the halfwits who ask, don't even have UW statue in the hall.
I use my stones, nubs buy them.
Most of the halfwits who ask, don't even have UW statue in the hall.
I use my stones, nubs buy them.
Spiritz
The stones i agree are stupid - then again there are loads of stupid ppl ( no offence folks ) for example can players remember a few years ago when ab used to go by rank - if you wasnt r8 lux/kurz or above you had probs getting into a team.Now lets see it was same time as hfff was around and a person who never set foot into ab could faction farm to r12 and be welcome in any team even tho they never did ab.Same with ursan - ppl wanted r8 ursan or above and now its the stones even tho we all know they can be bought and mean jack.
One day ppl may realise that if you want gd players for teams THEY NEED TO BE SHOWN AND TRAINED !!!!
One day ppl may realise that if you want gd players for teams THEY NEED TO BE SHOWN AND TRAINED !!!!
cormac ap dunn
Most people that show an elitist attitude are people i find i would rather not play with anyway. If you are so afraid of failure that you require a silly token to prove worth, your doing something wrong to begin with. I've proudly used my stones for what they are intended for, and by the way SC freaks thats not to show how "good" you are. every group I've been with in UW either succeeds or fails, but has fun... god knows what the people who demand speed would have done back in the day, when a speed clear consisted of waiting for favor, praying to make a balanced group and hoping to clear the UW in a few hours... their tiny heads would have exploded
SheilaWhiteclaw
im a no stoner player... and i find it STUPID to show those stones for something u need to know how to do.... there are tons of ppl buying them and joining.... so stones here are.... useless? imo anyways....
Yol
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Shanaeri Rynale
How about removing the guaranteed Ghastly stone drop from the UW chest and making it a random drop.
That way we'd get rid of this silly and meaningless need to show stones to get into UW teams, without removing the items altogether. |
gremlin
Not against the stones dropping randomly they are useless for judging ability anyway.
Many players want some way of telling the experience of players though really the only sure method has been in game since the beginning "Guilds"
A pug is a pug and your taking a chance when you pick random people, trying to decide on a persons ability based on how they look or what they own isn't really any good.
Many players want some way of telling the experience of players though really the only sure method has been in game since the beginning "Guilds"
A pug is a pug and your taking a chance when you pick random people, trying to decide on a persons ability based on how they look or what they own isn't really any good.
Shenro
How can Stones reflect the players Skill at Underworld Speedclear? They don't. Think about having a T4 Who can do his Role in a Good time, Cover others if needed and gets his Job done but the Guy doesn't have stones. Next we have a guy who probably earned a few stones and brought the rest or got lent some by a friend. However this guy screws it up.
Now tell me where Does the "Show stones" have any proof of the players skill? It doesn't. I can Understand "Show Stones" after Dhuum was put in the Underworld but not months later. Pre-Dhuum we didn't have stones, How could we tell how skilled a player was? We didn't. We hoped that they can do their role and complete Underworld as a Team.
All honesty /Signed
Now tell me where Does the "Show stones" have any proof of the players skill? It doesn't. I can Understand "Show Stones" after Dhuum was put in the Underworld but not months later. Pre-Dhuum we didn't have stones, How could we tell how skilled a player was? We didn't. We hoped that they can do their role and complete Underworld as a Team.
All honesty /Signed
PurpleFission
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Shenro
How can Stones reflect the players Skill at Underworld Speedclear?
|
If you could propose another, alternative method that wont change anything. If these stones do become a random drop, it will effectively turn 100+ groups in to 500+ groups.
Ghastly stones were meant to have a value, as they are arguably the best summon you can get.
If you're sad that you cant join pugs, don't try break a system that has been put in place for a reason just so you can fail underworld.
Premium Unleaded
Using no. of ghastly stones being a sign of someone's ability is as retarded as using zaishen rank as a sign of someone's pvp ability. That said, fixing (REMOVING) permanent spell immunity would solve your problem along with a ridiculous number of other ones in this game.
Shenro
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by PurpleFission
When you're in a pug with people you dont know at all, showing stones is the most effective way at getting a general idea of someone's ability.
|
In all honesty You cannot say "Ghastly stones Determine a players level of Skill in Underworld Speed clear as [Whatever] Role they Play". You can Buy those From ToA, Kamadan, This Guru itself. People Keep them after beating Underworld so they can get into Higher groups expecting "No Fails" But even still you'll find a 150+stone groups in ToA fail at the Simplest things.
Quote:
| If you're sad that you cant join pugs, don't try break a system that has been put in place for a reason just so you can fail underworld. |
Not only that your stating the fact Ghastly stones prove you have skill but Look at your guild name and Tag. It explains alot why your trying to make it seem like ghastly stones are a way of proof.
AndrewSX
Pugging for Uwsc isn't the best way to do it, but stones provide at least a bit of control about it.
And i'm saying this as 20 stones player (don't like uwsc.)
Is a sistem that sucks for beginners, but what don't?
And i'm saying this as 20 stones player (don't like uwsc.)
Is a sistem that sucks for beginners, but what don't?
cormac ap dunn
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by AndrewSX
but what don't?
|
PurpleFission
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Shenro
WTB Ghastly Stones 3.5K<- Yes of course this Shows somebody ability in Underworld doesn't it?
In all honesty You cannot say "Ghastly stones Determine a players level of Skill in Underworld Speed clear as [Whatever] Role they Play". You can Buy those From ToA, Kamadan, This Guru itself. People Keep them after beating Underworld so they can get into Higher groups expecting "No Fails" But even still you'll find a 150+stone groups in ToA fail at the Simplest things. No im Not sad- If i wanted to do a Underworld Speedclear i can use my Friend list. My Pve Days are done, Maybe every now and again i might do title wise stuff but it's PvP now. Not only that your stating the fact Ghastly stones prove you have skill but Look at your guild name and Tag. It explains alot why your trying to make it seem like ghastly stones are a way of proof. |
Shenro
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by PurpleFission
The point is, I'd rather have someone with 100 stones, regardless of where It was acquired vs someone who has no stones.
|
"I guess you Brought your 100 stones"
"100 Stones and can't even do {Whatever} Role. Failure"
"Noob"
That a typical comment if a guy with 100 stones fails-Either way stones prove nothing apart from they're obtained from Underworld, There best Summon stones in game.
Lithril Ashwalker
Shenro does have a point, regardless of where the stoens came form they could have been bought just to get in a group, which does not guarantee an experienced player, however if summoning stones from the UW CHEST were customized specifically for that player on that account & able to drop but not pickup then there would be alot more control in the matter, however people will make profit just to get stones and try to learn builds...still cant stop them.
Vanway
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Shenro
How can Stones reflect the players Skill at Underworld Speedclear? They don't. Think about having a T4 Who can do his Role in a Good time, Cover others if needed and gets his Job done but the Guy doesn't have stones. Next we have a guy who probably earned a few stones and brought the rest or got lent some by a friend. However this guy screws it up.
Now tell me where Does the "Show stones" have any proof of the players skill? It doesn't. I can Understand "Show Stones" after Dhuum was put in the Underworld but not months later. Pre-Dhuum we didn't have stones, How could we tell how skilled a player was? We didn't. We hoped that they can do their role and complete Underworld as a Team. All honesty /Signed |
Mashiyu
Everybody knows that stones do not measure player skill. But SC groups do also know that if nobody has to show stones, the stones would be basically worthless.
"lfm w/ 100+ stones" nets additional 7k/run.
"lfm w/ 100+ stones" nets additional 7k/run.
Swingline
100+ stone groups fail, so people started asking for a full stack... then they failed. Its almost as bad as asking for 30/50+ HoM. Just put in a vendor that makes them for 1k like a ton of other stones, but don't make it ask for ridiculous mats.
Wombatt
Make ghastly stones like zaishen coins used to be: non-tradeable. It wouldn't solve the problem of someone who has 100+ from doing a terra from using them to first-time emo or whatever, but it'd be better than nothing.
Shenro
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Swingline
100+ stone groups fail, so people started asking for a full stack... then they failed. Its almost as bad as asking for 30/50+ HoM. Just put in a vendor that makes them for 1k like a ton of other stones, but don't make it ask for ridiculous mats.
|
Jan Breydel
ffs this discussion is so old and so stupid.
Yes the system of showing stones is far from perfect and flawed in ALOT of ways.
But srsly you can keep repeating the same old boring line 'showing stones does not prove experience' as much as you want, it wont change the fact that the system statistically works.
There are obviously 2 kinds of people who have stones:
-The ones actually experienced who have a bigger chance to succeed than people from practise runs.
-The ones who bought a part/all of their stones and which probably proves they are motivated and took the time to learn what they want to do. So also better than the random guy from a practise run.
If you disagree and say a 250+ statistically has the same succes rate and speed as a 50+ run you're either ignorant when it comes to pugging uw or a liar. In both cases you shouldnt've posted in this thread.
If you want to pug underworld gather your stones the hard way like I did or take the effort/time to buy them, both of these will get you further than complaining on guru.
If it wasnt clear already: /notsigned
Yes the system of showing stones is far from perfect and flawed in ALOT of ways.
But srsly you can keep repeating the same old boring line 'showing stones does not prove experience' as much as you want, it wont change the fact that the system statistically works.
There are obviously 2 kinds of people who have stones:
-The ones actually experienced who have a bigger chance to succeed than people from practise runs.
-The ones who bought a part/all of their stones and which probably proves they are motivated and took the time to learn what they want to do. So also better than the random guy from a practise run.
If you disagree and say a 250+ statistically has the same succes rate and speed as a 50+ run you're either ignorant when it comes to pugging uw or a liar. In both cases you shouldnt've posted in this thread.
If you want to pug underworld gather your stones the hard way like I did or take the effort/time to buy them, both of these will get you further than complaining on guru.
If it wasnt clear already: /notsigned