The ministry guys will likely clear out after WoC is concluded.
Those Afflicted replacements though, like the scavengers? You're basically screwed.
And something even sillier will likely replace the Sensali.
WoC making Cantha dreadful
FoxBat
Elnino
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jeydra
If you did BFLA HM H/H, especially if it was done without consumables, post screenshot. To the best of my knowledge nobody was able to do it, although many excellent players have tried
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I Rahavan I
How to make WoC easy bring prots, lots of rupts, and don't mob like a noob! Wait this is what works most of the time in endgame...LoL
Laraja
WoC content--at least what I've played so far--is boring brute force through huge mobs. I actually stopped because it was so freakin' boring and really not very fun, and I play games to have fun. I couldn't imagine wanting to do a regular quest or vanq and having to wrestle my way through those mobs.
It would be nice to turn off the WoC content by abandoning quests. That's not complaining or whining. Why would that be considered 'dumbing' down anything? People who want it can have a quest turned on, and people who don't, abandon the quests.
WiK... tons of fun. Loved it and all the varied quests and the drama. WoC? Mind numbing.
I can totally understand the OP's argument. So why are people being such shits about it? Sometimes you're in the mood to happily skip along through content, kick the crap out of some bad guys along the way then stop to smell the flowers or admire the view. Sometimes your ready to hit that HM and brace for a good, challenging fight. There's room here for everyone.
It would be nice to turn off the WoC content by abandoning quests. That's not complaining or whining. Why would that be considered 'dumbing' down anything? People who want it can have a quest turned on, and people who don't, abandon the quests.
WiK... tons of fun. Loved it and all the varied quests and the drama. WoC? Mind numbing.
I can totally understand the OP's argument. So why are people being such shits about it? Sometimes you're in the mood to happily skip along through content, kick the crap out of some bad guys along the way then stop to smell the flowers or admire the view. Sometimes your ready to hit that HM and brace for a good, challenging fight. There's room here for everyone.
Team Spirit
you all forget that WoC is only at phase 1 and 2, like WiK, you never know when it reaches phase 3, which is the last part of WoC, they gonna remove those foes.
Jeydra
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Originally Posted by Elnino
I've seen a screenshot of a paragon doing it in HM with H/H and no consumables.
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Quote:
| Better synergies and randomization of mobs, together with some improvements to the AI tough, are entirely possible. WiK was great in this respect, while I felt like they went back to the "bigger is better" attitude with WoC: even if groups were randomized as well, they were pretty predictable, with fewer variations and more focused but less original builds. That, together with almost insignificant coordination meant each enemy was playing on its own against you, relying on its powerful build alone. It made most groups just a matter of patience, which I found a bit boring. |
Elnino
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jeydra
Post it here, preferably with timestamp: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/b...t10446204.html
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Jeydra
Post in that thread what builds were used then ...
LifeInfusion
I've VQed post-WoC while chest-running on a player character (monk) with no PVE skills other than seed of life, but I think you guys are missing the point.
I think the main problem is the inability to turn it off. Many people on guru have VQed already, but for those that haven't , "abandoning" WoC doesn't reset things.
this ^
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Originally Posted by Yol
ANet can't win....players complain that it's too hard, so they make it easier, and then players complain that it's not challenging enough, so they make it harder, and then players complain that it's too hard...
Players have completed acts 1 and 2 of WoC in HM, and players have vanquished Cantha with the WoC spawns present. If you can't do it, ask those that can how they did it instead of whining that it's too hard. If you have done it, please give advice or pointers to those that have genuinely tried different strategies instead of running here to whine at the first sign of difficulty. |
Quote:
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Originally Posted by bj91x
Unfortunately, WoC changes the difficulty of these casual HM areas into elite HM areas. A player who started WoC on NM did not ask for theire non-elite HM areas to be changed. Yet, now the casual players have to suffer.
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drkn
Quote:
| I think the main problem is the inability to turn it off. |
As in GW2, 'oh, the dragons' lieutenants are interrupting my events, i would love to turn them off!'. Come on.
The only problem is that you can't finish the storyline yet, even in NM which is easy and obtainable, because it's not implemented. I'm pretty sure that once it's done and your character has gone through everything, the spawns will stop, just as in WiK.
Saint Scarlet
Anet made the mistake with WiK in the fact it was started whether you wanted to start it or not, so when they did the survey alot of people said they would prefer it to have a "kickoff" to it rather than just happening.
So with WoC they made it so you have to kickoff with the quests, now if this person had done WiK surely they would realise that WoC will be roughly the same difficulty. So why start something when you know it's just going to gimp what you want to do later.
I'm sure when the 3rd part comes out the final quest will have the turn off switch in it so the vanquish areas can be facerolled again.
So with WoC they made it so you have to kickoff with the quests, now if this person had done WiK surely they would realise that WoC will be roughly the same difficulty. So why start something when you know it's just going to gimp what you want to do later.
I'm sure when the 3rd part comes out the final quest will have the turn off switch in it so the vanquish areas can be facerolled again.
Kelfer
This ->
& this
my 12 chars, nuff said. Time to be closed methinks, seeing as this is ca. thread 5, 6 or 7 on the theme ....
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| WiK... tons of fun. Loved it and all the varied quests and the drama. WoC? Mind numbing. |
Quote:
| There's room here for everyone. |
Omar Charrbane
I agree with The Pest, why'd you all need to rage like elitis jerks?
Hey shucks, turns out all OP wanted to do was collect on Thursday's ZB but then you have all the extra mobs that make it a total bitch just to collect a pennance in Z-coin.
I for one, feel you OP.
Hey shucks, turns out all OP wanted to do was collect on Thursday's ZB but then you have all the extra mobs that make it a total bitch just to collect a pennance in Z-coin.
I for one, feel you OP.
Elnino
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jeydra
Post in that thread what builds were used then ...
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Anyway, lets not get off-topic.
Family Guy
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Omar Charrbane
I agree with The Pest, why'd you all need to rage like elitis jerks?
Hey shucks, turns out all OP wanted to do was collect on Thursday's ZB but then you have all the extra mobs that make it a total bitch just to collect a pennance in Z-coin. I for one, feel you OP. |
Jeydra
Obviously I'm wondering about the heroes and the henchmen used right ... if this screenshot really exists, it would be a big breakthrough. I want to know more about it.
Also killing WoC mobs isn't difficult, so quit complaining zzz. Sure it's harder than standard "Hard Mode" fare, but it's hardly difficult enough that standard builds can't blaze through.
Also killing WoC mobs isn't difficult, so quit complaining zzz. Sure it's harder than standard "Hard Mode" fare, but it's hardly difficult enough that standard builds can't blaze through.
Nekodesu
Skyy High
People complain about mobs that can be face-rolled.
People complain about mobs that provide a challenge.
No pleasing people....
Put it this way: it's not "your" game. The game's difficulty is as hard or as easy as ANet deems it to be. It's gotten steadily easier over the course of the last few years, with PvE skills, consumables, heroes, and new balance updates all making what used to be hard content pathetically easy. If you find WoC mobs (normal mobs, not even the quest mobs which can spawn in much larger groups) too difficult, you've become waaaay too used to just waltzing through red dots like they weren't even there. I'm all for choice, and I'd be fine, even happy, if ANet made WoC like WiK when it's all over, but as far as we know that's not a possibility right now since we are still technically in the middle of the quest chain, nor should it be a big deal, because you shouldn't be wiping on normal trash mobs in explorable zones unless you're doing something drastically wrong.
People complain about mobs that provide a challenge.
No pleasing people....
Put it this way: it's not "your" game. The game's difficulty is as hard or as easy as ANet deems it to be. It's gotten steadily easier over the course of the last few years, with PvE skills, consumables, heroes, and new balance updates all making what used to be hard content pathetically easy. If you find WoC mobs (normal mobs, not even the quest mobs which can spawn in much larger groups) too difficult, you've become waaaay too used to just waltzing through red dots like they weren't even there. I'm all for choice, and I'd be fine, even happy, if ANet made WoC like WiK when it's all over, but as far as we know that's not a possibility right now since we are still technically in the middle of the quest chain, nor should it be a big deal, because you shouldn't be wiping on normal trash mobs in explorable zones unless you're doing something drastically wrong.
BogusDude
I started it on my GWAMM so no harm done, by the time i'd done Minister Chos i realised how boring it was just vanqing big mobs, is there meant to be a plot other than vanq loadsa areas to get some new spawns? Atleast WiK felt like you were playing through a storyline. I just don't get the point of WoC, maybe its a long term thing they have in mind but i haven't even thought about carrying on with it yet. Yeh its a bit more challenging but its also pointless, best just not to bother starting it in the first place lol
Amlin
Well let's all keep in mind that the WoC event is still going on so who knows how Cantha will look after the final chapter is completed. It could just end up like Kryta post WiK - back to normal. And unlike other game developers I have confidence in Anet and that they do listen to their playerbase a lot better than other games makers, so I believe they'll address the harder hitting mobs in some way in the future for people having problems with it.
BogusDude
While that may be true, i think the complaints are based around it is ruining their non-WoC gameplay. It wouldn't be such a big deal if it was just for a short period, but if its gonna end up taking them a year just push the content out then its a little too much frustration for many to care to put up with. Maybe the requirement to start the quest chain should have been greater than just completing the campaign.
darktyco
I just vanqed Zen Daijun in WoC mode the other day. It was easily the hardest area I've faced yet (this includes vqing all of Elona and most of Tyria). My hero builds could probably have used some tweaking but wow did I ever wipe a lot - luckily I had plenty of DP removal items on me. Actually I felt like 85% of the area wasn't too hard, but there were certain mobs with just the right combinations that would tear me to shreds (I think it was the dual shamans or shaman + dual tricksters).
Malganis
I got hit by the WoC Scavengers yesterday trying to vanquish Minister Cho's Estate for the Z-Vanquish. We had a monk, a ranger, and a ritualist, along with a hero minion master necro. We used up 2 sets of cons, several dp-removers, several summoning stones, and we still failed before getting halfway done. 
I went back later by myself with my ranger, two minion master heroes, and an SoS/Resto hero, and breezed right thru it, no cons, and no deaths, with the original spawns.
These scavengers SUCK! I can beat WiK mobs (then again, using 6 or 8 in the party), but this is impossible for a normal player like me.
I went back later by myself with my ranger, two minion master heroes, and an SoS/Resto hero, and breezed right thru it, no cons, and no deaths, with the original spawns.
These scavengers SUCK! I can beat WiK mobs (then again, using 6 or 8 in the party), but this is impossible for a normal player like me.
enter_the_zone
The lesson here is : get 50/50 in HOM / GWAMM/ Whatever you're aiming for, before playing WoC... or just skip it entirely.
An option to turn off WoC content wouldn't hurt, but this is Anet we're talking about here.... there are things they do well, and things they do not so well
Game features that players really want (like reversion for hacked accounts, decent security measures etc.) are just one of the things that Anet suck at. Instead, they'd rather offer costumes, Commando April Fools gags and flux effects. It's about priorities, and theirs are to add things that make people go "Oooohhh, shiny, shiny". Which says alot about how they view the majority of their player base.... then again, the "WTB mini polar bear" in party search does pretty much bear that view out.
An option to turn off WoC content wouldn't hurt, but this is Anet we're talking about here.... there are things they do well, and things they do not so well
Game features that players really want (like reversion for hacked accounts, decent security measures etc.) are just one of the things that Anet suck at. Instead, they'd rather offer costumes, Commando April Fools gags and flux effects. It's about priorities, and theirs are to add things that make people go "Oooohhh, shiny, shiny". Which says alot about how they view the majority of their player base.... then again, the "WTB mini polar bear" in party search does pretty much bear that view out.
tummlykins
They've already stated they fully intend to allow some way to turn off the changes made to the game by Winds of Change (WoC) progress. It's probably not going to come until part three is released (also the final part).
I think the lesson ArenaNet can take from this thread is that when Guild Wars: Beyond goes to Elona there should be a way to toggle between the new spawns and the old spawns with the release of part one (similar to what you can do with War in Kryta once you've completed it) rather than making them wait for the final part to be released. When it takes months to release all the content and the ability to turn of the new and improved mobs only comes with the last piece of content, it's very disruptive for players who want to access the same old areas without the added difficulty of the new changes.
Either way, those who are concerned about the increased difficulty of completing old Canthan content - such as quests, vanquishes or dailies - can rest assured that ArenaNet has already said they will allow players to "turn off" the WoC content in a future update.
I think the lesson ArenaNet can take from this thread is that when Guild Wars: Beyond goes to Elona there should be a way to toggle between the new spawns and the old spawns with the release of part one (similar to what you can do with War in Kryta once you've completed it) rather than making them wait for the final part to be released. When it takes months to release all the content and the ability to turn of the new and improved mobs only comes with the last piece of content, it's very disruptive for players who want to access the same old areas without the added difficulty of the new changes.
Either way, those who are concerned about the increased difficulty of completing old Canthan content - such as quests, vanquishes or dailies - can rest assured that ArenaNet has already said they will allow players to "turn off" the WoC content in a future update.
ValaOfTheFens
I'm happy this thread exists. I just returned to GW and would have dove right into WoC had I not seen this. Now I am systematically vanquishing Cantha and have 17 out of 37 done. Thanks to the Kurzicks for holding most of the cities south of Kaineng. ^_^ I wish you could turn off WiK stuff though. I couldn't complete a quest because the NPC is level 2 and WiK guys keep killing her.
Amy Awien
Old trick: do it in hardmode, your guest will be level 20 and the WiK mobs will not be harder then they are in Normal Mode
Daesu
I agree with this thread that the WoC stuff are "broken". This is what I have found out for my own characters.
1. Don't start on the WoC quests if you are a Cathan. That way, you can still exploit the Zen Dajun VQ quests when they come.
2. Don't start on the WoC quests on characters that you have setup for Budek VQ quests. Because you wont be able to exploit the killing drink master to gain VQ.
3. Don't start on the WoC quests before gaining the Cathan VQ title for obvious reasons.
I would not have started on the WoC quests for all my characters in my account except for 1 non-Cathan who has completed Cathan VQ. This is what I should have done.
After starting on the WoC quests, you may not want to go back to Catha after that.
1. Don't start on the WoC quests if you are a Cathan. That way, you can still exploit the Zen Dajun VQ quests when they come.
2. Don't start on the WoC quests on characters that you have setup for Budek VQ quests. Because you wont be able to exploit the killing drink master to gain VQ.
3. Don't start on the WoC quests before gaining the Cathan VQ title for obvious reasons.
I would not have started on the WoC quests for all my characters in my account except for 1 non-Cathan who has completed Cathan VQ. This is what I should have done.
After starting on the WoC quests, you may not want to go back to Catha after that.
Fitz Rinley
Quote:
| Please, for gawd's sake! No more QQ's about WOC. If it's too hard for you then ask for advice and not bigger rewards. People here WILL try and help. |
The fact remains that Winds of Change does not allow for one to turn the content off after it is started. This means that once you have a character, likely your main, begin Winds of Change you will not be able to assist lower level members of your guild, friends, etc. The entire reason for the 20th level cap was so that your friends could start playing and Quickly join you with maximized level and armor in a matter of days, if not in a day. The inability to turn Winds of Change off so that you don't have to deal with them when: 1) you are sick and just want to have fun, 2) you are escorting lower level players (friends, family, guild-mates, or new guys/gals), or 3) you are interested in doing something specific in a limited amount of time and don't want to waste the time it takes to deal with unnecessary epic level mobs.
The OP is correct in wanting some way to tune the extra content out when it is neither needed nor desired. The OP is also correct in stating the rewards are insufficient - it is not as if you can acquire more specialty items by running through these mobs again. Which brings us to the main point, which has nothing to do with asking for bigger rewards, but being able to play this content when you choose to do so and not playing it (turning it off) when you do not. Once you have completed Winds of Change, then they are merely an annoyance in between the player and other objectives.
bhavv
The thing I'll never understand is why Anet chose to ruin BFLA by making it easy peasy while making the Cantha end game tough as hell, and unavoidable while vanqing.
It also doesnt do anything to add to my hom, one reason why I grinded WiK on 8 alts was because of the oppressor weapons, along with how much I enjoyed the quest chain.
I rather have a repeatable initial difficulty WiK with no more medals being handed out for multiple completions, but that will never happen.
WoC is very hard (good), but also permanently game changing with no HoM rewards (bad).
It also doesnt do anything to add to my hom, one reason why I grinded WiK on 8 alts was because of the oppressor weapons, along with how much I enjoyed the quest chain.
I rather have a repeatable initial difficulty WiK with no more medals being handed out for multiple completions, but that will never happen.
WoC is very hard (good), but also permanently game changing with no HoM rewards (bad).
BrettM
Quote:
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Originally Posted by bhavv
WoC is very hard (good), but also permanently game changing with no HoM rewards (bad).
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A more legitimate complaint is that the content does not revert if the party contains a player that has not begun it, unlike all other content introduced in the past couple of years. WiK foes are not present if a party member has not met the requirements to begin WiK. Vanguard mission foes in Pre-Searing are determined by the lowest level member of the party, and are not present at all if a party member is under level 10. This is the behavior that we've come to expect, and it is hard to understand why WoC works in the exact opposite manner.
Swingline
Quote:
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Originally Posted by BrettM
WiK did not have any HoM rewards until the end of the content was reached, which took many months. WoC is not over yet, and we have no idea how the rewards will work out in the end.
A more legitimate complaint is that the content does not revert if the party contains a player that has not begun it, unlike all other content introduced in the past couple of years. WiK foes are not present if a party member has not met the requirements to begin WiK. Vanguard mission foes in Pre-Searing are determined by the lowest level member of the party, and are not present at all if a party member is under level 10. This is the behavior that we've come to expect, and it is hard to understand why WoC works in the exact opposite manner. |
The scavnegers could be branching a storyline. The scavengers might change the future of Cantha more than we know atm. They're obviously peasants who have banded together to fight off anyone who impedes their way of life such as bandits(Crimson Skull) and outsiders. This is why they are hostile to us. I kind of see it like WoWs scarlet crusade. They have become paranoid of everyone and this will help drive Cantha to become isolated in GW2.
As for the difficulty they really shouldn't have put end game mobs in 4 and 6 man starter zones. HM is only available once a player beats the game so HM itself is considered endgame. By this logic all HM maps that would limit parties to four or six players in NM should become eight man content and allow parties of eight. The starter zones use small parties as a game device to ease new players into bigger groups.
bhavv
Quote:
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Originally Posted by BrettM
WiK did not have any HoM rewards until the end of the content was reached, which took many months.
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aspi
I kinda don't get the fact that after you have done the first two parts of woc you did get rid of the afflicted, but in return you get larger mobs with way better skillbars.
Now WiK was almost similar but I never did see such larger mobs than I did when VQ-ing pongmei yesterday,
Now WiK was almost similar but I never did see such larger mobs than I did when VQ-ing pongmei yesterday,
Gli
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Swingline
They're obviously peasants who have banded together to fight off anyone who impedes their way of life such as bandits(Crimson Skull) and outsiders. This is why they are hostile to us. I kind of see it like WoWs scarlet crusade. They have become paranoid of everyone and this will help drive Cantha to become isolated in GW2.
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Naming the most powerful group of humans ever to be encountered in the lands of Cantha (Well, before the Purity guys showed up anyway.) after nature's garbage collectors makes no sense at all.
What you're describing is how they're presenting the Ministry of Purity followers.
Swingline
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Gli
How is that obvious? Certainly not by the name they gave them. I've been assuming they are dispossessed peasants, moving in after the fighting (us vs. the Afflicted) was done, to loot the battlefields. That's what scavengers do, they rush in to pick the leftovers clean, maybe fighting among themselves for the choicest bits. Scavengers need others around, or there won't be anything to scavenge.
Naming the most powerful group of humans ever to be encountered in the lands of Cantha (Well, before the Purity guys showed up anyway.) after nature's garbage collectors makes no sense at all. What you're describing is how they're presenting the Ministry of Purity followers. |
The difficulty has nothing to do with the story. Anet just made them hard because people were bitching about the game being too easy.
superraptors
i have found wik and woc terribly repetitive and that is a real let down, i have done like 1 quest of woc and gave up because the mobs are still easy and pretty pointless and the rewards for hours of questing is just completely disgraceful.
Gli
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Swingline
The difficulty has nothing to do with the story.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Swingline
Anet just made them hard because people were bitching about the game being too easy.
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Daesu
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Swingline
The difficulty has nothing to do with the story. Anet just made them hard because people were bitching about the game being too easy.
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I feel that I have taken on more challenges from this game than most people who are still playing this game. People only choose to undertake challenges based on the reward that they would get at the end. If the area is too difficult and the rewards are not good enough, they tend to avoid it.
In many of the toughest end-game HM areas, people would either a) avoid them because the rewards are not good enough, OR b) defer to joining speed clear groups that rely on 24 or more PvE skills/team and consets to clear the area, instead of doing it themselves with 7 heroes.
This is why they bragged that the game is too easy, since they chose to take the easy way out in the first place. I only wish ANet would understand this before they design the next PvE challenge.
There should be quests/missions where no cons (aka "taking drugs") are allowed and a limit to the number of PvE skills you can bring per team. That would be my preferred way to address their complaints without increasing monster level, armor, or hp.
Swingline
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Originally Posted by Gli
It should, or your game looks stupid. What's next? Rampaging pensioners? Man-eating ponies?
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Gli
And of course starter areas were the most suitable place to fix that.
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