WoC making Cantha dreadful - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

enter_the_zone

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Nov 2007

R/

31 Dec 2011 at 05:30 - 81

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swingline

Doing this also limits options and creativity. A person can spend 4 hours doing a 4 man shing jea VQ with melee or they can just load spirits and steamroll it in an hour or less. It gives power to imbalanced options and causes the entire game to become further powercreeped.

Just to entirely prove your point.... sheesh, melee? How....quaint?

Gli

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

31 Dec 2011 at 08:23 - 82

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swingline

It never made sense that the afflicted were so weak while Shiro was around during the main storyline but after he was defeated the afflicted became super powered during WoC. You would think they would be weaker with their source gone.

I don't think Shiro was supposed to be their power source. The Am Fah could still create new ones after all, years after Shiro left the scene. The more powerful WoC-style afflicted can be justified quite easily: they're the ones that survived for years, and simple got better through experience. They're certainly not as out of place as a peasant militia that could conquer the Realm of Torment without breaking a sweat.

Swingline

Forge Runner

Join Date: Sep 2010

Somewhere far away from you

The Mirror of Reason[SNOW]

W/

31 Dec 2011 at 09:16 - 83

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

I don't think Shiro was supposed to be their power source. The Am Fah could still create new ones after all, years after Shiro left the scene. The more powerful WoC-style afflicted can be justified quite easily: they're the ones that survived for years, and simple got better through experience. They're certainly not as out of place as a peasant militia that could conquer the Realm of Torment without breaking a sweat.

The Afflicted are simply living creatures-animal, human, plant-that have had the misfortune to get too close to Shiro’s malevolent spirit. Those left unharmed refer to this “disease” as the Affliction and fear that, if left unchecked, it could become an epidemic. The Affliction is not contagious in this way, but considering the other more obvious dangers the creatures present, steering clear of the Afflicted is wise in most any case.Anyone or anything could become Afflicted, which lends this so-called plague an even more terrifying aspect than any single, normal disease. The resulting mutations are unpredictable monstrosities with all of the combat strengths the original person or creature possessed, but altered and augmented in terrifying ways by the Affliction.Once someone or something becomes Afflicted, there is no cure. Killing the Afflicted is the only way to give the tortured soul peace; hesitation or pity will only result in death—yours.

— The Guild Wars Factions Manuscripts

Your just arguing your own conjectures. If you actually read the update notes John Stumme wrote as WoC part 1 came out you would know that the live teams intention was to give people something to do with or without making sense. Some parts of the game have holes and your filling them with your own ideas, that isn't a bad thing but I stand by my original statement about a possible branching storyline with part 3 and the fact they made them hard to give the complainers something to do. If I were you I would wait for part 3 before coming to conclusions. I myself try to keep an open mind until I can see the final chapter of WoC.

Gli

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

31 Dec 2011 at 09:55 - 84

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swingline

The Afflicted are simply living creatures-animal, human, plant-that have had the misfortune to get too close to Shiro’s malevolent spirit. Those left unharmed refer to this “disease” as the Affliction and fear that, if left unchecked, it could become an epidemic. The Affliction is not contagious in this way, but considering the other more obvious dangers the creatures present, steering clear of the Afflicted is wise in most any case.Anyone or anything could become Afflicted, which lends this so-called plague an even more terrifying aspect than any single, normal disease. The resulting mutations are unpredictable monstrosities with all of the combat strengths the original person or creature possessed, but altered and augmented in terrifying ways by the Affliction.Once someone or something becomes Afflicted, there is no cure. Killing the Afflicted is the only way to give the tortured soul peace; hesitation or pity will only result in death—yours.

— The Guild Wars Factions Manuscripts

Your just arguing your own conjectures.[/quote]
Eh? How does any of that imply that Shiro was the power source? Seems like you started believing some conjectures of your own. So he's the dispersal vector for the disease, that doesn't make him the power source. Someone who gives me the flu isn't the power source of the flu. In any case, the game itself pretty much implies that Shiro wasn't the power source, because if he was, the Am Fah wouldn't still be creating new afflicted after he was gone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swingline

If you actually read the update notes John Stumme wrote as WoC part 1 came out you would know that the live teams intention was to give people something to do with or without making sense.

I haven't read anything any developer wrote for years. Don't care enough anymore. And if that's the kind of thing they write, I'm glad I don't, I'd lose respect for them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swingline

Some parts of the game have holes and your filling them with your own ideas

Just like you're doing with your interpretation of the scavengers.

By the way, there was one very easy thing they could've done so the scavengers wouldn't have been as nonsensical as they turned out: don't name them scavengers! The name tags for monsters without backstory can usually be taken at face value: if it's called a bear, it's probably a bear. If it's called a hyena, it's probably a hyena. But if they're called scavengers, and look like they haven't had a change of clothes in years, they're apparently incredibly overpowered individuals that mob together to kill anything on sight. Why not call them an angry mob or something instead?

Ramei Arashi

Academy Page

Join Date: Apr 2009

The Geezer Guild (GZR)

E/

06 Jan 2012 at 00:11 - 85

Forget the scanvangers, doing part 2 of WOC adds ministry of purity foes. Somebody better at it should update wiki.

Essence Snow

Unbridled Enthusiasm!

Join Date: Nov 2009

EST

DPR

07 Jan 2012 at 15:42 - 86

Just finished VQ Min Cho's Estate.....350+ foes (had woc quest active)...took 2hrs. Although I could have used cons to make this easier, I did not. I definately feel that this is by far the hardest VQ in the game and tbh is completely unreasonable for the majority of GW players. For the small percentage of players who complain about how easy everything in GW PvE is.....this vq....is the "Extra Hard Mode" you desire. I found it more consistantly more difficult than h/h doa hm and h/h uw hm.

AngelWJedi

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2008

orlando,florida

Society of Souls [Argh]

Rt/E

07 Jan 2012 at 18:01 - 87

Quote:

Originally Posted by Essence Snow

Just finished VQ Min Cho's Estate.....350+ foes (had woc quest active)...took 2hrs. Although I could have used cons to make this easier, I did not. I definately feel that this is by far the hardest VQ in the game and tbh is completely unreasonable for the majority of GW players. For the small percentage of players who complain about how easy everything in GW PvE is.....this vq....is the "Extra Hard Mode" you desire. I found it more consistantly more difficult than h/h doa hm and h/h uw hm.

it happens to be one of two zones i need for my title. wish they least spread out the mobs more. its the fact they agro so easly even with careful pulling. BTW i know i did the zen vanq before i did part 2 WoC but now its says i havent >> man no far

asb

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2008

Europe

Me/

09 Jan 2012 at 14:26 - 88

Heh, my friend who's really not a very good gw player vq cho's estate yesterday in about 5 hours(with breaks). All he did was go all out on damage and shutdown, him being sos, a communing spirits hero, a trapper hero and a panic mes. No healers. I haven't tried that area myself since the update, but his experiences lead me to believe that strong spiking capabilities are the key to beat the scavengers before they can outpressure you.

Maybe one should go as a trapper team with FS, it sounds really reasonable to me, especially since traps cannot be interrupted(spells) or destroyed(spirits, minions).

Curbsplitter

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Mar 2006

Boston

THAI

N/Me

09 Jan 2012 at 22:46 - 89

It took me 3 hours to come up with builds and a proper group of heroes. I beat the Minister Cho's Estate vanquish within 2 1/2 hours. I put in the time and plenty of curse words through my experiment, but it paid off and it was fairly easy. This are was the only hard part to vanquish because you can only have a 4-man team.

Tactical-Dillusions

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2005

Grimsby, UK

R/

15 Jan 2012 at 13:06 - 90

Nice, I was looking for a thread where I can rant about the ministry...

Can't complete the vanquishes because of them. Too hard. Boring now. Rewards don't justify completion.

For those fanboys saying stop moaning about difficulty, let me remind you it is your whining about being "too easy" that lead to this dreadful situation in the first place, instead of you going with less party members or skills to increase your difficulty. Well done, you've killed half a continent and reduced the playerbase.

Me included. I'm done. Bye.

MisterB

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2005

Planet Earth, Sol system, Milky Way galaxy

[ban]

W/

04 Feb 2012 at 09:10 - 91

John Stumme recently posted on the wiki about the topic of WoC difficulty.

Quote:

There's going to be some fairly major revisions to balance on most of the content that came with P1 & P2 of WoC, including the respawned explorable zones. Andrew has had a change of heart, and decided that everything should no longer be at Titan-quest level. I think most people will find going through the content less of an exercise in frustration with the new release. Apologies to the people who haven't enjoyed the content as a result of the difficulty. But for the last part, we're trying to address some common complaints - rest assured that means 8,000% more Afflicted for the ending! John Stumme 03:54, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

Quote:

I've primarily done the dialogue for WoC, yes. I've written everything up to and including the rescue attempt of Ashu, and then all of the quests that involve Miku or Reiko after that. The next biggest contributor has been Andrew, who wrote the tengu section, as well as some other content you'll be seeing soon. All of the quest implementation and a lot of design has also been handled by Andrew - these days I'm lucky if I even have time to write text, but there will be a new blog piece going up soon. Robert has been contributing side quests, and even Joe has pitched in with writing some things, including ___ ____ _______ ___ ___ ___. John Stumme 02:01, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/User_...e_with_buddies

Horace Slughorn

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2008

Experientia Docet [OHX], Trinity of the Ascended [ToA], We Gat Dis [HRUU]

W/

04 Feb 2012 at 09:52 - 92

^shame I kind of liked the difficulty. It was kind of cool to actually fail a quest and have to adjust my builds.

fireflyry

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jan 2007

New Zealand

A/D

04 Feb 2012 at 11:46 - 93

That's why you should wait till the game is dead when GW2 drops.

Then we are getting a 50 hero per player update and a new skill which is unlimited Shadow Form combined with unlimited Frenzy called "lolzysauce".

You saw it here first.

Daesu

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2008

04 Feb 2012 at 14:56 - 94

Fortunately for me, I made the decision to get my Canthan Vanquisher+Cartographer before doing any of the WoC quest, because I read the wiki first.

The WiK difficulty was ok, WoC is just too repetitive and difficult for a set of weaker rewards.

Yes challenges are great and I have spent a lot of time adjusting builds for all different professions to get them through all the HM Titan quests without cons. But I have to pay the price now that GW2 is releasing soon and I still have not reached 50/50.

RenegadeSAS

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jun 2009

The Ancient Exiles [Old]

W/

04 Feb 2012 at 16:08 - 95

i just got my canthan vanquisher like 3 hrs ago man that was hard i worked through and kept going ministers cho's was a good crucible to reforge my play style i feel that ive actually re lernt to actually play the game again instead of just running my old team build

Wielder Of Magic

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2008

Netherlands

The Saviors Of [EviL]

D/

04 Feb 2012 at 16:13 - 96

A shame they are planning to lower the difficulty.
All areas and quests were doable in HM if you used a bit of common sense.

worstnameevar

Academy Page

Join Date: Nov 2008

Between Earth and Sky

The Thuggee[lain]

N/

05 Feb 2012 at 03:19 - 97

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wielder Of Magic

A shame they are planning to lower the difficulty.
All areas and quests were doable in HM if you used a bit of common sense.

As the adage goes, "Common sense ain't so common anymore."

I'm just hoping for Part 3 before GW Birthday is upon us.

cosyfiep

are we there yet?

Join Date: Dec 2005

in a land far far away

guild? I am supposed to have a guild?

Rt/

05 Feb 2012 at 03:33 - 98

it would really be nice to have that arc completed some time soon (not anet's 'soon')...as in we would like to see it in the next few months. Good to know they are actually working on it.

simooshy

Academy Page

Join Date: Dec 2010

[AoM]

E/

05 Feb 2012 at 14:57 - 99

I seem to be one of the only people who has almost solidly enjoyed WoC thus far. I have found some things to be a little too hard/easy, but overall it seems to me the balance was good. Main exceptions being VQing Minister Cho's, and maybe the Cho's/Tracking Corruption missions in HM, which I found quite hard.
Most of the 8 man VQs seemed fine to me, but then I had completed VQs before WoC, so prob not redone all of them post-WoC.

FoxBat

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Apr 2006

Amazon Basin [AB]

Mo/Me

05 Feb 2012 at 18:07 - 100

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wielder Of Magic

All areas and quests were doable in HM if you used a bit of common sense.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Cleansing_Haiju_Lagoon

Wondering if "common sense" means something other than "pull the NPC away" exploit.

Chthon

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Apr 2007

05 Feb 2012 at 19:45 - 101

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wielder Of Magic

All areas and quests were doable in HM if you used a bit of common sense.

I'd like to see completion screenshots of the kappa quest in HM for each primary class, especially the melee classes.

chuckles79

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2009

FILA

P/

05 Feb 2012 at 19:53 - 102

Quote:

Originally Posted by cosyfiep

it would really be nice to have that arc completed some time soon (not anet's 'soon')...as in we would like to see it in the next few months. Good to know they are actually working on it.

I think we'll get to fight the Shatterer in GW2 before an end to WoC.

maybe GW:B was too ambitious for a 5 person development team, but it's hard to shake the feeling that this project has been abandoned.

Swingline

Forge Runner

Join Date: Sep 2010

Somewhere far away from you

The Mirror of Reason[SNOW]

W/

05 Feb 2012 at 20:31 - 103

Quote:

Originally Posted by chuckles79

I think we'll get to fight the Shatterer in GW2 before an end to WoC.

maybe GW:B was too ambitious for a 5 person development team, but it's hard to shake the feeling that this project has been abandoned.

WoC part 3 will be here before GW2. It would make no sense to have this content unfinished before 99% of the current population migrates to the new game. I for one would like to see this story play out before I dedicate my life to GW2.

Lordkrall

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2011

W/

05 Feb 2012 at 20:31 - 104

We had an update on the wiki as late as yesterday from John Stumme about WoC, and they are rather clearly still working/almost finishing part 3 of WoC

Sube

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Mar 2006

07 Feb 2012 at 11:43 - 105

Screw woc...I want ebonhawk!!!

DiogoSilva

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Feb 2011

Girl

E/

07 Feb 2012 at 12:29 - 106

Something tells me that WoC part 3 will be here soon (as in, 1 -2 months soon at max, with the second part of ele's update in 2-3 months). The question is, can they finish (or will they even attempt) Nightfall Beyond before GW2 is out?

Bright Star Shine

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Nov 2009

Belgium

Club of a Thousand Pandas [LOD???]

E/

07 Feb 2012 at 12:58 - 107

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiogoSilva

Something tells me that WoC part 3 will be here soon (as in, 1 -2 months soon at max, with the second part of ele's update in 2-3 months). The question is, can they finish (or will they even attempt) Nightfall Beyond before GW2 is out?

There isn't going to be a Nightfall Beyond. They have said this from the start.

AndrewSX

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2010

Italy, Turin

Lake

E/

07 Feb 2012 at 13:47 - 108

On the other hand they said that it is already written in terms of story and quests. The question is if we'll be able to at least get a summary of what should have been.

Swingline

Forge Runner

Join Date: Sep 2010

Somewhere far away from you

The Mirror of Reason[SNOW]

W/

07 Feb 2012 at 14:35 - 109

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiogoSilva

Something tells me that WoC part 3 will be here soon (as in, 1 -2 months soon at max, with the second part of ele's update in 2-3 months). The question is, can they finish (or will they even attempt) Nightfall Beyond before GW2 is out?

No, they cannot finish it but they will begin it even after GW2 is released.

GW2 is looking like it will have May/June release. GW1 will also continue to have support after GW2 is released. By the time WoC part 3 is here it will probably have been a year since they began development on it. I can only assume it will take them the same amount of time for any Nightfall Beyond content.

Missing HB

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2010

Anna

A/

07 Feb 2012 at 14:46 - 110

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swingline

GW1 will also continue to have support after GW2 is released.

They did implement 7 heroes for PvE however. Basically, once GW2 will be out, PvP will be a ghost world while PvE will still be " playable" for people who want to have fun or finish their stuff... I don't believe there will be other support than minor bug fixes..

Dratyan

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2007

D/

07 Feb 2012 at 15:00 - 111

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bright Star Shine

There isn't going to be a Nightfall Beyond. They have said this from the start.

Quoted from the official wiki's GW:Beyond article:

Quote:

John Stumme has stated that when he and the live team look at Elona, they would like to expand on the story of Palawa Joko and continue that plot thread, which was left dangling in Nightfall.

Swingline

Forge Runner

Join Date: Sep 2010

Somewhere far away from you

The Mirror of Reason[SNOW]

W/

07 Feb 2012 at 15:42 - 112

Quote:

Originally Posted by Missing HB

They did implement 7 heroes for PvE however. Basically, once GW2 will be out, PvP will be a ghost world while PvE will still be " playable" for people who want to have fun or finish their stuff... I don't believe there will be other support than minor bug fixes..

They implemented 7 heroes because people asked for it and Anet wasnt sure of GW1's future as far as finding as group goes.

GW1 will be dead for a few months after GW2s release but it may see a spike after the few months have passed. Reasons are...

- GW2 will get boring and they will need a second game

- People will want HoM rewards

- They want to see where the GW Universe began(Story)

- People can play both games with no sub fee(B2P only)

- Both games have the same in game store business model(no nickle and dime bullshit)

Martin Firestorm

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2005

Louisiana

E/Me

07 Feb 2012 at 16:10 - 113

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swingline

GW2 is looking like it will have May/June release.

I would be shocked. I think that's way too optomistic. Late summer best case, more likely fall.

Missing HB

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2010

Anna

A/

07 Feb 2012 at 16:10 - 114

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swingline

- GW2 will get boring and they will need a second game

- People will want HoM rewards

- They want to see where the GW Universe began(Story)

- People can play both games with no sub fee(B2P only)

- Both games have the same in game store business model(no nickle and dime bullshit)

Yes, but that's not gonna really have any incidence on group forming in GW1, as long as you have heroes. Besides, most players have already achieved what they expected.. Saying GW2 will be boring is a big word, many players will say GW1 is boring( me included) yet we still play it, even if we just stand in kamadan or swap PvP districts to see if there is any activity...

Besides, there will for sure be no activity on PvP, and that's removing a big incent for players to come back on GW..I didn't quote your first paragraph, but if 7 heroes were made to help group formation, i wonder what was removing heroes from PvP supposed to do...

Swingline

Forge Runner

Join Date: Sep 2010

Somewhere far away from you

The Mirror of Reason[SNOW]

W/

07 Feb 2012 at 17:43 - 115

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Firestorm

I would be shocked. I think that's way too optomistic. Late summer best case, more likely fall.

There's no reason to hold the game up that long, especially since the press beta events begin this month on the 20th and public open betas begin in march. The closed beta didn't last long at all and that indicates a finished game. The press beta is just a showcase event, same for the public betas but those are also to stress test the servers.

----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Missing HB

Yes, but that's not gonna really have any incidence on group forming in GW1, as long as you have heroes. Besides, most players have already achieved what they expected.. Saying GW2 will be boring is a big word, many players will say GW1 is boring( me included) yet we still play it, even if we just stand in kamadan or swap PvP districts to see if there is any activity...

Besides, there will for sure be no activity on PvP, and that's removing a big incent for players to come back on GW..I didn't quote your first paragraph, but if 7 heroes were made to help group formation, i wonder what was removing heroes from PvP supposed to do...

Its meant to be a casual game and I suspect people to burn through it fast just as they do with most other games. Most gamers don't just play one game, they have 2+ and even though GW1 has the same developer and lore it is a different game entirely.

DiogoSilva

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Feb 2011

Girl

E/

07 Feb 2012 at 21:03 - 116

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swingline

Its meant to be a casual game.

It's also meant to have as much depth in its game design as the original GW; it'll just be easier to get into and flashier. Going from a huge, monotonous list of skills and effects to memorize to a more visually intuitive terrain/ movement-driven game won't make it more boring, if anything it'll be the opposite.

After seeing my Backfire "hex" visually counter-attacking a foe for each skill usage, with its own HP, terrain position, and the ability to shatter it into one of four different effects, I'm not sure I'll find the old fire-and-forget version more interesting; and so on.

Gill Halendt

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2008

08 Feb 2012 at 10:49 - 117

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

I'd like to see completion screenshots of the kappa quest in HM for each primary class, especially the melee classes.

I have no screenshots, but I did it with my Warrior.

Agree it was the most frustrating experience in the game so far. Took me ages, some cons and a little bit of help...

MisterB

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2005

Planet Earth, Sol system, Milky Way galaxy

[ban]

W/

08 Feb 2012 at 16:31 - 118

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

I'd like to see completion screenshots of the kappa quest in HM for each primary class, especially the melee classes.

Monk and Dervish are posted here.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Talk:...appa_Attack#HM

I'm not commenting on the point I believe you were trying to make, just replying to the request. I don't have a short reply to the claim that WoC HM requires only common sense. I will say that I feel that claim is simplistic, inaccurate, incomplete, and dismissive.