Paid primary profession change

How are we asking to buy what others have achieved when we already have achieved the same titles? If you mean leveling the prof to 20..... No need to say anything about that.

Its been said before, this is not about having multiple gwamm, this about extending the gameplay of a character we already play the most. Not to mention the revenue that could be dumped further into gw2

Lets just get back to the root of this thread shall we?

Laziness and Boredom... And all in the name of titles. The Laziness argument; "I can't be bothered going through the game as it was intended on a new character because its long, hard to do, boring, repetitive, and achieving titles is a 'grind'." And the Boredom argument; "I need a reason to play my old character but I have done 'Everything' on it. All the content of the game is so 'difficult' to get through again, besides its my money and my character why shouldn't I be allowed to play the way I want to? There is a hero in the game (site Razah and Thackeray here)that has the ability anyway" Does that about sum up both of the arguments for the OPs original idea? Lets get to some simple invalidation for both of these arguments.


Most people have agreed that the 7 hero update has given everyone who owns either Eye of the North or Nightfall no excuse to not complete content, level, attain items and money, and achieve titles. Titles are not required to complete or to participate in any facet of the entire game, aside from self imposed or group pressured limitations. Your current GWAMM is about you showing off, feeling a sense of completion, feeling you have better use of builds... etc. The heroes that have been sited are there to help the player get through the content, the hero with the shifting profession has a wonderful lore reason to not have a dedicated primary (he's not a human, charr, asuran, or any other being in the game, you are welcome lore nerds.).

You not going through content in the game, leveling and playing a new character does have a very decided impact on the game. Leveling, running, buying new items, paying for title items, and generally expending cash in game is vital to the way the in game economy works. These are referred to as "cash sinks". Even the HoM has a need for new characters, without which the monument to Devotion would be all but impossible to complete. No new characters means no new minis which means future players will be unable to fill that hall. These are smaller arguments but are so absolutely necessary to the way the game functions, and they go ignored for the sake of the "I deserve this", "I payed for the game", "I should be allowed to have" retorts.

On a personal note I find the "I'm too lazy" side to be a weak argument for a full change of a game. We all see the shlubs in towns begging for gold and items because they don't want to go and play. What is the advice most of us give them? Go Play. The "I'm bored" crowd has much less of an excuse for wanting the entire game to change. If you are so bored with GW, feel you have done everything (which I guarantee most of you have not done EVERYTHING in the game) or generally feel entitled to a totally different game, I have some comforting advice... Go play something new, stop playing GW and pick up something that you WOULD enjoy. Thats not meant in a mean spirited way. If I go to a burger joint and want tacos guess what? I can't sit and huff and puff until they make me a taco, I'll likely be thrown out. Less whining will not only make you feel better, but the number of ways you can feel satisfied with the time you expend doing so will probably result in an all around happier life. For many of you, the time you have taken on these forums could have been used to make, level and even title a new character.

You are correct because you're in the Elder Scrolls you're character can advance in every skill without giving up another, here in Guild Wars changing your profession makes you give up one selection of skills for another.

..

Razah did not become a primary profession changing hero until like half a year ago in an update around April/May.
Before that Razah was a Ritualist and he's been like that since the release of Nightfall which was in 2006. You're welcome archivist nerds.


You all make very valid arguments and points which I take into consideration, but tell me this, when they day comes and you're playing a different primary profession which you very much enjoy and it suddenly hits you that you have to spend all this time again on this character to do everything all over again.

Do you want to fill up you're HoM again with Tormented weapons?
Do you want to pay another set of mini's?
Do you want to grind everything all over again? I'm not just talking about titles but also locations and WiK progress and WoC?

This has nothing to do with being lazy or being bored, from the very start of this game you could change you're secondary profession. How is paying to change you're primary such a bad idea? Especially in this game?

You're telling us that we are lazy, that's your opinion but you can't ask us to put that much effort into the same thing over and over again, I don't know about you but when I starting filling up my HoM I had alot of free time which I dont have anymore. I've got a fulltime job and i'm travelling to every corner in Europe.

I can't really comprehend why someone would decline this option since it gives no advantage in the game in the contrary to the mercenary and bonus weapon packs where you pay for advantage.

With this you don't you just get the optional option to change a primary profession for the sake of changing you're current gameplay and keep things interesting until Guild Wars 2 hits.


And some day the miniature market will run low on mini's how are you going to fill it up then? Favor will also run out and devs will have to fix that too. Oh and please give me a reason how miniature's and favor will have anything to do with a paid primary profession change option.


I have 10 char slots I have 2-3 PvE characters and 3 hero characters used the rest I use for PvP which is delete and recreate. How am I supporting the mini market without the paid primary profession option?

Look, PvP players can already pay for a full skill unlock pack, instead of grinding faction to unlock.
This gives them an advantage over people who can't or won't pay for the unlock pack. It takes a very, very long time to unlock skills through faction.

So how is this any different? It saves you time.

You're upset because someone can afford to spend money on this? Or maybe mommy and daddy won't let you use their debit card? Too bad, some of us won't mind paying for this. Will we save time? Yes. How does this affect your life? It doesn't.

lorazcyk... i don't see the point in 'playing' a game if someone can just bribe their way to the top. it's not about the cost but the ethics. would you like it if some gm got on a pvp and kept slaughtering you by abusing his power? that would be close to the same issue. i can afford it without my mom or dad using the card. but i don't want to play a game called 'i got more money in my wallet' or 'world of warcrap' , so i play 'guild wars' instead.

maybe someday when i am older i will make an online game that gives players the better ability the more money they shell out. then i can sit back, laugh, and get rich off people trying to out bid each other over a fictional fight online... i could call it 'eBay wars'. lol

People who buy skill unlock packs are abusing their power? Uh? They paid cash for a featured offered by anet.
Plus, primary profession change would affect no one, but the person who paid for it.

No, it's not. It's completely irrelevant. How will I, if I change my profession in PvE, abuse my powers towards YOU? Give me some examples. You can't even atack team mates, so I don't see how that would be possible. Will I change from a healing monk into a wammo warrior mid battle, thus ruining your speedclear? No, that won't be possible mid-battle.

It's entirely optional, you don't have to buy.

'Tis a shame, but I'm not going to fret about it. When you're mature enough to get off your soapbox, let me know.


-New players can get more minis as the game ages. If this idea were to be implemented, players would forgo the ability to sell minis if they want to extend the playtime of their older characters because they will not receive them. Additionally, just because a person has the ability to change their primary profession does NOT mean that they won't make characters to get free minis with spare slots.

-The OP is asking for an OPTIONAL feature, where not everyone will shell out $10 to not play any of their other characters. This will impact a small portion of the community, but be available for everyone so that no one is disadvantaged.

- All Anet has to do is, after the prof. change, is give the basic skills (IE: intro trainer), and people would still have to pay to unlock skills. It does not change the way they work, it does not require balancing, and the gold sink is still there.

-If they lock the armor so that you could only use it on a certain prof., then people would have to spend money to get more armor for their char. This would then cause storage issues, in which Anet can sell more of their storage panes in the in-game stores.

- People are lazy. So why shouldn't Anet capitalize on it? Anet makes money, and people have more incentive to play as well as a more positive attitude, since they don't have to spend 20+ hours getting a character ready for elite areas. It doesn't provide a crutch, it doesn't give people an unfair advantage, and it saves time doing menial, and stupid grinding (which is, incidentally, similar to the point you make on consumables titles)

It could be a very simple mechanic. You talk to a trader at GToB that brings you to the character creation screen. You would be allowed to pick your prof., customize the appearance (once, locked into the original gender) and remap to GToB.

Some very valid points... I was against the idea at first but it would make sense if implemented this way.

./signed

Simply put, this isn't happening anyway. I rather like my soapbox as it affords me the wonderful view of the simplton above me. Just because you feel ALL of the "simple" additions you propose are possible doesn't make them feasible. Catering to the minority just means more being asked for when they get it. My next thread is going to be based solely on the "new" generation of players who want to be spoon fed everything. It would seem that Sardelac is a breading ground for the lazy, the self entitled and the unaware. So when you can get off your belly, crawl up to this soapbox, it has a wonderful view when you take off your rose colored glasses.

WOW. LOL. Just LOL.

Answer one simple question. How does having the OPTION to pay for a primary profession change of a character impact anyone else's gameplay?

Whether you believe its laziness or boredom is irrelevant, you're assigning value judgments to people you haven't even met, and are making gross assumptions about peoples' motivations.

In this very thread are people who have posted stating that its not because they're lazy, its because they would like to experience the game in a different way, have not the time to bring a brand new character to the point their main character is, and are willing to pay for the opportunity, and ALL the while not impacting anyone else's gameplay in the slightest!

Yet you continue to ignore these comments because they blow your lazy/boredom soapboxing out of the water, as does common sense.

Seeing as how the system is already in place (see Mercenaries, Razah, Name Change, Makeovers, etc.) its really not a problem to implement something like this.

I can see how you enjoy soapboxing though, it means you don't need to acknowledge rational arguments that defeat your own baseless assertions.

This.

If people are too lazy and or too bad at the game (the people in favour of the idea) to have more than 1 character, then that's tough, don't play. And don't try to argue because purchasing items from the in game store instead of working for them in game is the definition of laziness and being bad at the game. You won't find one decent player in favour of this option, have fun wasting your time with it though. /wave

/facepalm

See Above

If it's an issue of titles, then it would be easier to make just make them all account wide. Can't say I'm fond of either idea though.

Yes, that troll must have a very difficult life, if he can't even manage properly discussing a simple forum thread.
I don't know how to dumb it down even further, my questions are quite clear. His train of thought is not quite logical. I bet this phrase makes perfect sense to him too: "I hate summer, it's too hot. I love silky lingerie. Have I told you my grandma makes the best apple pie? Last year I saw a tree growing upside down!"

His answers make as much sense of that >_>
It's very funny to read though, it's always enlightening to remember how most people are incapable of articulating themselves. Thanks for the entertainment.

By the way, all of you saying "This will never happen", that's against the Sardelac forum rules. You can read them, it's a sticky thread.

I think the person is just upset that they will not be able to shell out the cash for the profession change, and then they will feel sad that they have to repeat everything in a new character. Yeah, that's a stretch, but I can't imagine what other reason he could have against this!

You seem to be a very mad little fella/fellette. Relax, breath, understand people don't have to agree with you. It will all be fine.

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You really are quite funny. Thus far your arguments have been "Why can't I?" "But my boyfriend can't play!" and the like... given your other thread on here you don't seem to have a whole lot of input that actually follows logic. I mean, afterall, on that one when you were given a solution to the issue you had, you just cried about another.

No it doesn't , it takes a few FA or JQ games to get an FOTM build.

Before the inevitable response from our oh so lazy fellow players lets not forget, that takes minimal effort. And as this thread bares witness, that's more then these folks would be willing to put in. So as sensible and well, to be brutal to those who will respond in the negative, LOGICAL as that may seem, its bound to go against the spirit of all that they are saying.

So are you saying that buying the entire skill pack does not provide an advantage? Fine, let's go with that.
So let's say, in the same vein, that "No, buying the profession change does not give an advantage. You can just play through the game in a new character".

Do you see the similarity? Since we have the skill pack, even though, as you say, it provides no advantage, then it should be OK to have a profession change too.

What? Have you read my posts? How about responding to the questions I raised?

What, the gaming keypad? I don't want a gaming keypad, I didn't ask for one. I did not ask for help on how I can change things. I clearly stated I use my mouse for selecting characters. And either way, answers should be relevant to the suggestion in the opening post (*). It does follow logic that a person who uses a mouse to select characters will not like a gaming pad. If I like selecting characters, that's what I like, I have my reasons. It's none of your business.


(*) So please talk about this post.

Please stop. The assumption that people in favour of this are all "lazy" is just that. An assumption.


Oh, and all the "This will never happen" statements flying around... remember when players first requested 7 heroes?

And your logic is quite fail as well, it amounts to, "I don't agree, I'm not sure why, but I'll refrain from engaging in constructive debate, and instead call anyone who disagrees lazy and bored."

And I'm not mad, just amazed really how you fail to answer the questions put forth yet continue to post nonsense.

Again, I'll ask:

How does the option for a paid profession change in any way affect your gameplay experience?

How does not having enough time to "main" two or more characters constitute being lazy, given the fact that the average player will both be unable to complete all content in one weekend (probably impossible anyway) AND has r/l obligations precluding the possibility?

Its ANet's job to make a fun game. Adding an option that adds to the experience while creating ZERO negatives is a no-brainer.

By that logic, I want an option to buy Miniature Kanaxai's from the in game store.

A] Does it affect your gameplay experience? I think no little boy.

B] If you don't have enough time to play, that's not a good enough excuse to be able to buy everything with real money. "I don't have enough free time to play GW, so I deserve to be able to buy in game rewards/changes with real money" really is a pathetic, arrogant [and noob] attitude.

C] Play the game like everyone else and stop crying when you can't get your own way. Like this game isn't easy enough as it is.

Actually I change my mind. Threads like these are why they wont remove grind from this game. They can make money from people's frustration.

It's cool d3 is coming.

Nothing stopping you from making your own thread in Sardelac Sanitarium. Go right ahead? I'll come by and check it out.

But you did not reply to the post above!

Dont be a butt and make a new profession.

Please don't say you're relying on that as your argument for this.

So basically. I can say. How does the option to buy r12 Champ on the in game store in any way affect your gameplay experience? I'm pretty sure it doesn't. Does that make it ok? Because I don't have enough time or skill to actually work for it. That is basically your argument. So let me know when you have a valid reason for this option k?

But you only really want this option because as you said your bf plays gw once a month and can't make money as a ranger, seriously what a joke lol...

Why would you compare rare minipets or PvP titles to this? For a rare mini you have to power trade for months in order to afford it. For titles... lets not even go there. Changing primary profession on your toon does not give you any advantage other than making the game a bit more interesting for those who are working on things for their HoMs but dont have the additional time to level another character.

And it will generate additional income for Anet. Win win.

Agreed, the comparison of in game items and titles is straw man. There is no "tangible" gain to the prof change, nor is it a maxed pvp title that takes ages to acquire.

You gain NOTHING. You would have to pay for skills. You would have to pay for armor and weapons. Assuming they make it a requirement to be lvl 20 and Ascended, you have already done most of the work. No one hands you anything in a silver plater.

You can't sell your character to other people for a lot of cash like a mini kanaxai.
Your character will not get a title to fool others into letting him into top guilds / teams.

PvE enemies don't give a shit about you, so they don't care if you're ranger or warrior. Trust me, they won't complain.


Believe me, he's doing quite well. He's also got other characters he could use for making money, if he ever needed to.


Are you going to answer?

well apparently you don't bother to read the entire statement made by the OP. Its directly about being lazy AND bored. As far as having reasons , it appears you don't completely read anything. go back to all my posts read my reasons, complain less, and absorb more. Pretty sure that the people that want this take the lazy thing as far as reading comprehension.
I'm really not sure how many reasons it takes to get through to the unreasonable, but it seems to be none.

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I doubt any answer will satisfy you, at current rate, every answer given that doesn't match yours , you choose to ignore. Meh, can you blame anyone for ignoring your request for the answer given about 50 times directly in response to you?

This. Has. Got. To. Be. The. Dumbest. Thing. I've. Ever. Heard.

1. Why would you fill your hall with torment weapons?
2. Why would you fill the hall on more than one character thats stupid and useless.
3.Why would you grind everything out again. People keep saying Ohh man if I make a new character Ill have to vanquish these zones map all these areas get all these consumable titles..... WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT YOU ALREADY HAVE IT ON ONE CHARACTER. I HAVE GWAMM ON 1 CHARACTER THEN THE REST DONT HAVE CRAP FOR TITLES. I get my other characters to the places I want them(say ToA or DoA) then I dont bother with any titles whatsoever because the only tangible reward for titles is account wide...the hom. Stop making titles as an excuse for this its sooooooo stupid. I have 8 characters(I didnt want to shell out another 20$ for 2 more) I make a new character and Im done getting it all that I need in a few days at most. It literally takes like a couple hours to get through nightfall and that campaign takes the longest.
For the eotn/lb/ss/kurz/luxon titles that boost skills the boosts are hardly anything to brag about. And they are the one reason for why grinding things is a good thing. They give you an advantage over another player because you took the time to do something they did not.

Whoever made the comment about Elite skills.... thats stupid also. Noone cares about warrior skills on a necro if they already have a gwamm. I guarantee you probably only use maybe 1/8 of the elite skills FOR YOUR PRIMARY PROFFESION. Also theres these new things called skill tomes which let you not have to go cap them. You get the elite skills you are actually going to use and dont bother with the rest.

I completely disagree that this would somehow provide some kind of advantage over other players because yes you already did do the work once so you are paying to just transfer them to a new character. BUT. AND THIS IS A HUGE BUT. That doesnt change the fact that it would be completely counter intuitive to transform one character to another profession. If you want to play a monk but have a warrior with gwamm you would now have a monk but no warrior. Dont you think if youve played a warrior for all that time that you will still find a use/have a desire to play a warrior again at some point. The only way to do this would be to.... wait..... MAKE A NEW CHARACTER. Which you could have just done by making a new monk and not had to spend money for nothing.

Once again....... Theres a reason you cant do this in other games.

You forgot 'more fun', that's another major advantage.

Anyway, I can imagine one can get get bored with a primary and not have enough time to play a new character to the same level in HoM and then to max, and I don't see any advantages over others. I assume skills and equipment will still have to be bought for the new primary, so there's a minor cost in work and time.

/signed

PS: Just QFT.

In case you missed it Anet DID make a fun game. People pushing for this option think it isn't fun anymore, ANET did their jobs, they already have your money, if you are bored, and you want a different class, well, they gave you multiple slots. Less time working on catering to a small group means more time working on content, so that same group won't whine when that GWAMM they get bored with again in hours/days/weeks has something to do. Anets biggest mistake thus far has been caving every time a select few whines or bellyaches that everything is too hard/boring/unfair. Once these kids get what they ask for, they learn to complain more. Its an endless cycle. You know what a parent that caves to a whiney child is? I'm certain to the group supporting this it would be unrecognizable. The rest of us recognize these enablers by their screeching brats always in tow, and always being coddled. The same spoiled little brats we all want to tell to shut it, well, these whiney folks are the results. I think at this point its time you all L2P or GTFO. stop begging for change, its no ones fault you are bad at the game, bored with the game, or feel you deserve anything except your own. Don't make the rest of us pay with less updates to real game content so you can catch up to competent players who actually have no problems with any of this. Funny that these folks whine so they don't have to work for anything. Frankly, God forbid this ever even be thought about being added, I will dedicate more of my in game time to laughing at these sorry individuals for lacking the simple ability to play a game no one seems to remotely have an issue playing for 7 years. This sudden handicap in playing seems to be very related to a generation seemingly fixated on getting everything for nothing. Oh how disappointing your lives will be.

And what game breaking content have they added? 7h teams... thats it.

You're rude and rash comments serve nothing more to fuel the fire, such is the life of trolls.

I'm not bored with the game, I want to play my MAIN character as much as I can, I don't have the need for alts other than to farm or to mule. Since it is infact a character that I have had since GW release. I'll continue to play it whether or not they implement this, despite what your accusations straw man over, the FACT is, I'd pay ANET my cold hard $$$ to support THEIR endeavors, since they graciously support mine.

That's why I payed to have an advantage through merc slots, and an advantage through 12 character slots across 3 accounts. So I think I've payed my dues.

Making every one out to be ungrateful whiny children is nothing short of childish yourself. You don't know us, you don't know our motives, and you certainly don't know the extent of how we play our games. Stop kidding yourself, pun intended ;]

Right, ok. Totally not the same logic, but ok.

A - It does affect gameplay in two ways. One, minis are a tradeable commodity between players, hence you have the trading game that many people enjoy. Two, allowing people to buy a commodity for real money would destabilize the entire game economy, making things like material prices crazy, armor unable to be crafted, etc., etc. So no, you're wrong. Deal.

B - A paid profession change is different from a paid name change how? Or a skill unlock pack, or pet unlock pack, or makeover, or any of the extras you can buy in the store? Mercenaries even? Are you actually claiming that ANet is pathetic, arrogant and composed entirely of noobs?

C - Everyone plays their own way. I fail to see how allowing someone to change their primary profession via in-store transaction will make the game any easier or more difficult. Changing your primary from a Monk to Necromancer isn't an instant "I WIN" button, nor does it confer automatic Heroes' Ascent mastery.

Again, both you and a few others dance around the issue and call it laziness, failing to take into account that the vast majority of gamers have these things called real lives which preclude them from spending every waking moment on eight separate characters on one game.

So, yet again, answer this question:

HOW DOES SOMEONE ELSE BUYING A PRIMARY PROFESSION CHANGE INTERFERE WITH YOUR PERSONAL GAMING EXPERIENCE???

Stop feeding the trolls. Until a mod cleans this thread up, it's going to be the same people posting their +1 "stop being lazy" post again and again.

Oh look, another cormac ap dunn post where he has no idea what hes talking about...

Except the people who are willing to buy shit in the store are the ones keeping the game up and new content coming...


blah blah blah everyone is a kid blah blah. More pointless drivel.


Except you aren't paying, for anything...

Work is an important part of any game. O wait. People have already put in the work, god forbid they want to have fun and subsidize YOUR free content. But nope lazy spoiled brats blah blah.

You honestly have no idea about what you're talking about across the 6 pages of this thread. You can't read basic comments. You spout out ridiculous things like "Lets not even begin to think of major skill changes effecting this..." when you clearly have no idea how this game works. When things don't go your way you fall back on the old "if I scream it loud enough, it'll be true". Well, it isn't. Its about time you off the soapbox and went back into the corner.

LOL... Apparently I made someone a wee bit upset. Sorry we have different opinions, but I guess you just learned an important lesson about public forums, they are about debate and opinion. I'm debating that this change panders to bad players (lazy,no ability to play, insistent on the world being handed to them.) which directly has an impact on the game environment I enjoy. My opinion is that the attitude of said players on general already ruins a great deal of the game. And now I have a very fun opinion of you. As far as my opinion, you really don't have to like it. As a matter of fact I've already stated that the type of person generally railing behind this would react, well, just like you. A bit of whining, a load of foot stomping, generally ignoring everything said that counters them getting their way. So thanks for living up to expectations. As far as implementing a poorly thought, unrealistic demand such as the one listed in this thread I'm more then confident that we are all safe from such a thing ever happening. Let the butt-hurt commence!

You're not debating anything, you're just saying things without explaining them.
Debating is not just a matter of sputtering random things.
Opinion is nothing, nothing whatsoever, unless you explain why you feel that way.

How does me changing a ranger to a warrior affect your PvE game play? You have not answered.
You have not offered counters, you have only said you are right because you think you are. Therefore, why not explain why you think you're right? Then maybe we would understand. Perhaps we would come to agree with you if we understood why you think the way you do.

THAT is what debate is about.

Test question:
Only one argument has been given against this suggestion. I know what it was. Can you tell me what argument was it?

Trick question, you are delusional and don,t see any argument made against it. So to recap all the counter points one more time so you can see them... Paying for a change of primary is akin to paying to shortcut the multiple character slot design of guild wars. Being lazy is no excuse for not playing the game as intended. Boredom is no excuse for not playing the game as intended. People whining to get their way is both annoying and petty. Resources required to give a few lazy/bored people a shortcut takes away from actual game content being added by the devs needed to make rhese changes. Multiclassing wasn't intended to be" play every class on one character". Multiple game mechanics would need to be restructured just to make a few people happy, yet again stopping the devs from working on content changes, projects in transition, or in the works.Shall I continue? There are actually several more points, if you want them all please reread all the posts. Also asking a question every time someone makes a point makes you seem vapid at best. This post has gone on page after page and you seem to think there has only been one argument against it? Are you seriously even reading anything? Test question for you: Do you even understand what a response is? It would seem that you think it's answering posts with more questions. Just so you understand, it really doesn't make your posts seem relevant, nor does it make you seem as though you have some grand reason for asking(i.e. if I ask a question at the end perhaps I will seem witty as if trapping someone into an answer) It just makes you seem clueless. On a personal note Using bold text in a question makes your point seem silly, and you don't get extra points for using it!

ANet's management can think for themselves and don't need us to look after their interests.

Time as an advantage is an absurd proposition, as is the rest of your posts, and we haven't even mentioned your trolling and abundant abuse of personal attacks.

Goodbye.