Is there any particular reason why RA can't at least have basic matchmaking?
- Same class composition on both teams (possibly make it a checkbox option)
- Basic ELO ranking
I enjoy pvping, but the stacked teams are insanely frustrating.
Why can't RA have some semblance of balance?
Pluberus
RedDog91
Yes.
I suggest there be a system in place where all teams are matched up with 1 monk, 1 warrior, 1 elementalist, and 1 ranger.
All other professions will get 007'd if they try to enter. This is the only way to balance RA.
/sarcasm
I suggest there be a system in place where all teams are matched up with 1 monk, 1 warrior, 1 elementalist, and 1 ranger.
All other professions will get 007'd if they try to enter. This is the only way to balance RA.
/sarcasm
Pluberus
Quote:
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Originally Posted by RedDog91
Yes.
I suggest there be a system in place where all teams are matched up with 1 monk, 1 warrior, 1 elementalist, and 1 ranger. All other professions will get 007'd if they try to enter. This is the only way to balance RA. /sarcasm |
Lord Mip
I don't think there are enough players to pit the same group composition against each other all the time. Besides, it would get boring real fast to play against the same professions over and over again, especially with the prevalence of meta builds.
ELO rating I can get into yeah, but I wonder if that's going to be implemented in the game in this stage of its lifespan.
ELO rating I can get into yeah, but I wonder if that's going to be implemented in the game in this stage of its lifespan.
Pluberus
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Originally Posted by Lord Mip
I don't think there are enough players to pit the same group composition against each other all the time. Besides, it would get boring real fast to play against the same professions over and over again, especially with the prevalence of meta builds.
ELO rating I can get into yeah, but I wonder if that's going to be implemented in the game in this stage of its lifespan. |
EDIT:
I guess I know things will not change in this stage of the game, but why was it not considered from the beginning?
Martin Alvito
It was an enjoyable format back before titles, when people used it as a live-fire testing range for bars and didn't take it seriously.
The only practical way to fix the format is to pull the title, and that isn't happening. As long as there's a reward people care about, people will find ways to game the join algorithm.
The only practical way to fix the format is to pull the title, and that isn't happening. As long as there's a reward people care about, people will find ways to game the join algorithm.
Pluberus
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Originally Posted by Martin Alvito
It was an enjoyable format back before titles, when people used it as a live-fire testing range for bars and didn't take it seriously.
The only practical way to fix the format is to pull the title, and that isn't happening. As long as there's a reward people care about, people will find ways to game the join algorithm. |
Martin Alvito
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Originally Posted by Pluberus
That's what the ELO system would be for. Removing the title wouldn't fix anything.
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Take away the title and there's no longer any real incentive to sync. The rewards from the format are minimal enough that anyone serious will go somewhere else, leaving casuals that don't sync.
Pluberus
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Originally Posted by Martin Alvito
Again, people will find ways to game the join algorithm. If the game had more activity than it does, an ELO solution might work. But it doesn't, and so it won't.
Take away the title and there's no longer any real incentive to sync. The rewards from the format are minimal enough that anyone serious will go somewhere else, leaving casuals that don't sync. |
In fact, if they were going to go with an ELO system, why not allow teams of two, and then weight them? Global Agenda does this, and it works pretty well, even with a very small population (much smaller than GW).
Martin Alvito
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Originally Posted by Pluberus
What do you mean it wouldn't work? Even if people sync'd, in an ELO based system, they'd be placed against a team of similar skill.
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The only tricky bit is getting high-rated players into the same team, but that's trivial as long as there are eight prospective syncers in the pool of players at any given time. Since your proposed system highly rewards networking, I'd imagine that such players would find each other.
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Originally Posted by Pluberus
Also, I don't play for the title, and I still sync on occasion. I like playing with my friends.
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Porkchop Sandwhiches
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Originally Posted by Martin Alvito
It was an enjoyable format back before titles, when people used it as a live-fire testing range for bars and didn't take it seriously.
The only practical way to fix the format is to pull the title, and that isn't happening. As long as there's a reward people care about, people will find ways to game the join algorithm. |
DoomFrost
Bring the same team pairing mechanics like costume brawl. (A new group of players every match you win)
Remove consecutive wins, and award players with a token every win they get.
Accumulate enough tokens (5) and you can trade them in for a Gladiators Strongbox.
Remove consecutive wins, and award players with a token every win they get.
Accumulate enough tokens (5) and you can trade them in for a Gladiators Strongbox.
Pluberus
I just want some "balanced", challenging, fun games. Guess I'll have to wait to GW2 and 1v1 people. 
EDIT:
Fighting team compositions you know you can't win against isn't fun, and conversely, steamrolling teams because you got lucky with a good team composition is not fun.
EDIT:
Fighting team compositions you know you can't win against isn't fun, and conversely, steamrolling teams because you got lucky with a good team composition is not fun.
Krazy Kat
The best way I see to balance RA is to completely randomize the teams after every win.
Sight of Eagles
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Originally Posted by Porkchop Sandwhiches
Ugh this is so true. These days if people don't have the perfect party they will just /resign right away because it's now only about the points. I miss the build testing and actual randomness it used to have. No fun there, now RA is serious business
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Missing HB
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Originally Posted by Pluberus
- Same class composition on both teams (possibly make it a checkbox option)
- Basic ELO ranking |
Besides, a ranking system in a random format would be quite ridiculous, especially in a format where the only objective is to kill the opponent in let's say 2mn usually..
The main problems with RA are :
- players mentality : most want to win and thus the arena, which was made to test builds, isn't anymore
- inactivity : all organized formats are empty thus people go where it's still a little active, i.e in RA, and it leads to more players who want to win
- skills update made for GvG only : what fits for 8v8 doesn't really for 4v4 and even less for random 4v4
- linked to previous post : unlike back in prophecies, it's quite fair to say that you can't expect many consec without any heal skill in your team
bhavv
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Martin Alvito
It was an enjoyable format back before titles, when people used it as a live-fire testing range for bars and didn't take it seriously.
The only practical way to fix the format is to pull the title, and that isn't happening. As long as there's a reward people care about, people will find ways to game the join algorithm. |
But I think everyone is overlooking the simplist possible fix for RA - Put TA back into the game for title grinders. RA only went downhill after TA was removed with title grinders being reduced to having to sync in RA to be able to play the team builds they want, or to simply play with their friends and not some randoms.
It was annoying when I was running Searing Flames in RA for the fun of it, and some retard necro begins whining about my PVE build and telling me to leave the group, and instead leaving himself when I refused.
The other two people in the group had the same guild tag so I had gotten myself into someone elses sync group, and one of them accidentally posted in team chat instead of whispering the leaver 'We could have just carried the ****er'.
Thats why we then troll RA with joke builds like frenzy hammer monks the following match.
Just as Im reading in the HM update thread, its always been a case of 'If you arent running Invoke and Chain Lightning in RA and PVE, youre automatically a nub elly'.
Thrilla Killa
Stacked teams arent the problem, its the growing number of syncers and sync guilds that's the problem. Match manipulation is suppose to be against the EULA and a bannable offense, but ANet does nothing to prevent it from happening. The whole point of random arenas is for everything to be random, if you get a good team, nice, go on a decent glad run. If not, leave after the match if you want to. When there's districts dedicated to syncing (jap d1, korea d1), you know the problem needs to be fixed.
Pluberus
Eh, I don't think TA would cut it. There are a lot of people (like me), who like PvP, take it somewhat seriously, but don't have the time to commit to a real team. We still like to compete with other players, and RA is the closest we can get (i.e. hot-joinable pvp, like in many fps games).
For those you who haven't tried it before, you really should try Global Agenda's pvp. It has a very small population, but matches are pretty balanced with its ELO based system, and it even has a monthly ranking system (http://www.agendastats.com). At release, pvp was very unbalanced, but simply matching team compositions helped a lot.
@Missing HB, so yes, it is possible to manipulate a random format for balance. People do stack teams in GA, but even so, the matchmaker accounts for it and maintains some semblance of balance.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that even if the Gladiator tile was removed, RA could be so much more - if it had at least basic matchmaking. More fun, more competitive, etc. Yes, people will always attempt to game the system, that can't be helped - but you can at least control for it some with a "real" (ELO type system) RA rating.
For those you who haven't tried it before, you really should try Global Agenda's pvp. It has a very small population, but matches are pretty balanced with its ELO based system, and it even has a monthly ranking system (http://www.agendastats.com). At release, pvp was very unbalanced, but simply matching team compositions helped a lot.
@Missing HB, so yes, it is possible to manipulate a random format for balance. People do stack teams in GA, but even so, the matchmaker accounts for it and maintains some semblance of balance.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that even if the Gladiator tile was removed, RA could be so much more - if it had at least basic matchmaking. More fun, more competitive, etc. Yes, people will always attempt to game the system, that can't be helped - but you can at least control for it some with a "real" (ELO type system) RA rating.
Fluffy Kittens
fact: RA stands for RANDOM Arena
It's not supposed to be balanced, it's supposed to be completely random, where "pros" and "newbies" will face eachother
It's not supposed to be balanced, it's supposed to be completely random, where "pros" and "newbies" will face eachother
Pluberus
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Originally Posted by Rezz Anna Nicole
fact: RA stands for RANDOM Arena
It's not supposed to be balanced, it's supposed to be completely random, where "pros" and "newbies" will face eachother |
bhavv
Bringing back TA would fix a lot of things, first and foremost all the people who actually want to make a full team builds to farm glad points with would have TA back rather than having to try and sync in RA.
Missing HB
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Originally Posted by Pluberus
You can still have random with some balance. Makes it more fun for everyone. That's how modern FPS matchmaking works. Random matches, but somewhat balanced.
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The only way to fix would be to go back in skill updates , but it clearly won't be done.. I could also say that probably 60% of threads suggested since 2009 would have never happened if they didn't delete team arenas and 30% if they didn't delete hero battles , but well....
Pluberus
Well then, maybe this would work better in GW2 (since the professions are more independent and since there are no dedicated healers).
ruk1a
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Originally Posted by Porkchop Sandwhiches
Ugh this is so true. These days if people don't have the perfect party they will just /resign right away because it's now only about the points. I miss the build testing and actual randomness it used to have. No fun there, now RA is serious business
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I don't sync because I'm not low as shit, if I want to play with friends there are multiple other formats more enjoyable than RA imo.
Gruff
Random Arena = Random don't know why so many people get their knickers in a twist about it. If you want a somewhat balanced small arena then codex is available so you get 4 seperate professions together.
And yes Team Arena shouldn't have been taken out etc etc
And yes Team Arena shouldn't have been taken out etc etc
Coast
Remove glad title from ra and put back ta.
Its simple: casuals en idiots will stay in ra and people who actually want to play decent matches will go to ta along with some guys that will run gimmicks.
Its simple: casuals en idiots will stay in ra and people who actually want to play decent matches will go to ta along with some guys that will run gimmicks.
ss heretic
I would like to see an RA-Flux based on the team compositions, for example:
Team A: 3 Assassins, 1 Paragon team
-vs-
Team B: 1 Warrior, 1 Ranger, 1 Elementalist, 1 Monk
Flux would be:
Team A Flux: You are healed for x everytime you attack or use a skill.
Team B Flux: Movement speed increased by x
Team A: 3 Assassins, 1 Paragon team
-vs-
Team B: 1 Warrior, 1 Ranger, 1 Elementalist, 1 Monk
Flux would be:
Team A Flux: You are healed for x everytime you attack or use a skill.
Team B Flux: Movement speed increased by x
Fluffy Kittens
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Originally Posted by ss heretic
I would like to see an RA-Flux based on the team compositions, for example:
Team A: 3 Assassins, 1 Paragon team -vs- Team B: 1 Warrior, 1 Ranger, 1 Elementalist, 1 Monk Flux would be: Team A Flux: You are healed for x everytime you attack or use a skill. Team B Flux: Movement speed increased by x |
That would have nothing to do with RA. Maybe in Codex sure, but keep the RA random.
bhavv
Is codex active these days? That last time I did it people were continuously farming a team of their second accounts for free points.
I just went there and its still dead, only two groups plus 1 or 2 people without a group and not even looking for one.
I just went there and its still dead, only two groups plus 1 or 2 people without a group and not even looking for one.
makosi
My continuous thoughts about RA:
-No more than one of the same profession on a team, akin to Codex.
-Do not pair teams with a monk with teams without a monk.
I believe that this would iron out a lot of 'heal wars' and prevent the ridiculous scenario in which one team has a monk-tank while the other team is left to be picked apart one by one.
-No more than one of the same profession on a team, akin to Codex.
-Do not pair teams with a monk with teams without a monk.
I believe that this would iron out a lot of 'heal wars' and prevent the ridiculous scenario in which one team has a monk-tank while the other team is left to be picked apart one by one.
Fluffy Kittens
And what is so random about that? I don't think you get the point of RANDOM arena. It's supposed to be completely random, that's what makes it interesting and different from all other formats. Sometimes both teams have monk, sometimes one team doesn't have it but other team got two. That's the whole point of RA. If you want something organized I'd suggest you to go HA or something, maybe you'll help in making it alive again instead of trying to ruin the ONLY RANDOM format in the game.
Coast
well, people shouldn't get dishonor for raging team instantly then neither; as u say: everything in ra is random. Why shouldn't behaviour allowed to be random then?(playing sub-optimal builds also could be seen as putting ur team at a disadvantage).
Pluberus
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Originally Posted by Rezz Anna Nicole
And what is so random about that? I don't think you get the point of RANDOM arena. It's supposed to be completely random, that's what makes it interesting and different from all other formats. Sometimes both teams have monk, sometimes one team doesn't have it but other team got two. That's the whole point of RA. If you want something organized I'd suggest you to go HA or something, maybe you'll help in making it alive again instead of trying to ruin the ONLY RANDOM format in the game.
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It would be a lot more balanced, and more fair. The goal would be to make every match give both teams a 50% chance of winning. Of course that will never happen, but you can get close.
Yuris Sayuri
@ Pluberus : I know how u feel, I always get the same profession in my team (Gladiator rank 10)
- If i play ranger -> only mes and rangers in my team.
- If i play monk --> atleast 1 further monk in my team.
- If i play melee --> i only get assas, dervs and warriors.
- If i play ele -----> i wont get a single melee.
And yes i was making notes, so its not just an felt issue.
Still people ask me why i sync sometimes - srsly?
- If i play ranger -> only mes and rangers in my team.
- If i play monk --> atleast 1 further monk in my team.
- If i play melee --> i only get assas, dervs and warriors.
- If i play ele -----> i wont get a single melee.
And yes i was making notes, so its not just an felt issue.
Still people ask me why i sync sometimes - srsly?
Missing HB
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Originally Posted by Rezz Anna Nicole
And what is so random about that? I don't think you get the point of RANDOM arena. It's supposed to be completely random, that's what makes it interesting and different from all other formats. Sometimes both teams have monk, sometimes one team doesn't have it but other team got two. That's the whole point of RA. If you want something organized I'd suggest you to go HA or something, maybe you'll help in making it alive again instead of trying to ruin the ONLY RANDOM format in the game.
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Why are also people leaving at the begin/end, the format is random so they shouldn't be here to expect the perfect team...
If people aren't satisfied with the random format, then i guess something has to be done on organized formats... oh wait..
Also, i don't believe the format is completly random to be honest... like every time i pass 5 consec, i'm facing the same players over and over..
makosi
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Rezz Anna Nicole
And what is so random about that? I don't think you get the point of RANDOM arena. It's supposed to be completely random, that's what makes it interesting and different from all other formats. Sometimes both teams have monk, sometimes one team doesn't have it but other team got two. That's the whole point of RA. If you want something organized I'd suggest you to go HA or something, maybe you'll help in making it alive again instead of trying to ruin the ONLY RANDOM format in the game.
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Interesting and different? Totally subjective. And it's not the only random format - you've forgotten about JQ/FA and, to a lesser extent, AB if you want random teams.
Some people in this thread just want RA to quit being a game of rock, paper, scissors but, instead, a game where what they do impacts the outcome rather than which professions they incidently happened to spawn with.
"Make it alive again"? I wasn't aware that it died because it's fairly well populated from where I'm standing. It's bang-your-head-off-the-wall frustrating to face 4 stubborn-ass monks who won't resign and prolong the match to 7 minutes, killing a steak of 4, 9, 14, 19 or 24 wins.
Face it: the format is poorly thought out. It wouldn't be such an issue if there were no weekend events, zaishen combats, strongboxes or gladiator points to endorse the format and lure people in. Anet went there though, and they really ought to address the BS associated with RA.
Fluffy Kittens
I do understand that all of you are very good players and that you want to win all. But you have to consider the fact that RA is low-end PvP and the learning place for newbies. The best way of learning is to adapt to multiple different situations and that's why RA should stay just the way it is. As I said, I understand how frustrating it is for you really good players to lose only because you don't have a monk in team or because you don't have a melee class in team but I think you'd better be off in HA or GvG where you can have any kinds of professions in team that you want and win all.
Man W/ Club
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Originally Posted by Rezz Anna Nicole
fact: RA stands for RANDOM Arena
It's not supposed to be balanced, it's supposed to be completely random, where "pros" and "newbies" will face eachother |
IMO make RA only 1 district, not all these small districts where people can synch? I don't know how that will affect server lag (might be bad for it) but it will put an end to synching.
Plus we can all talk politics while waiting in line with people from other countries and different points of view.
Yuris Sayuri
RA is only 1 district, but GW is almost 7 years old 
Anet changed it like ~3 years ago to avoid syncing
Anet changed it like ~3 years ago to avoid syncing