Discordway post 6th jan patch

Gabs88

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2011

Just came back to the game and started looking over the different changes and builds. Has anyone tried implenting a more nuke focused Discordway post patch? It should be a quite significant improvement as far as Deathly Swarm goes

chullster

chullster

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2008

Blighty, Land of bad weather and plucky Brits

R.I.P. DJ HMS [BZRK]

no, mainly because discordway team builds are too slow and outdated.

Venganza

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Feb 2011

Fire

Quote:
Originally Posted by chullster View Post
no, mainly because discordway team builds are too slow and outdated. Yeah, I don't know of anyone who uses Discord since 3h limit was sorted.

turbo234

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2006

WI

Mo/

pretty sure a lot of people use something close to what i use:
soul twisting rit
n/rt healer w/ icy veins
panic mesmer
ineptitude mesmer
AotL mm
fire ele
and last depends on area.
when i vq or do anything hard mode related, i barely have to pay attention most of the time and can aggro several groups and walk away.
still able to kill quick + good protection.

Andemius

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2008

Vanguard's Last Stand [Hero]

W/

Quote:
To be honest, I think it's funny how people attribute the downfall of Discord to the introduction of 7H. Discord is actually stronger since the acquirement of seven heroes. Gonna have to agree with this tbh. Ive used discord with the 7h for ages and only very recently bothered changing it.

tenderpoison

tenderpoison

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2010

Omnipresent

A/

You people would be amazed of how many people still use Discord nowadays. I won't say it's bad or good, I guess it just depends on everyone's playstyle and everything. I (on my elementalist) personally use a Healing Burst monk, a N/Rt healer, an MM, 1 Panic / E-Surge, 1 Shared Burden, 1 Ineptitude and one VoS derv. It takes like literally just a few seconds for a group to die. Never tried it in Elite areas, but in all the other areas and so far it works great for me. And as a personal note : for me, it works faster than Discord.

aspi

aspi

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2010

eeew

N/Rt

Quote:
Originally Posted by Venganza
View Post
Go do Gloom HM no cons and Mallyx no cons and see how you go? Painful with discord (if you can do it), I have little trouble, so I know what setups I will continue to use.

Like the previous poster commented, discord simply isn't as effective as combos with mesmers, no shutdowns and way too slow.

Oh also 7h? Where on earth did you get that from? I said 3h... aka now Razzha prof can be change + mercs, thus 3 mes is a no brainer now.

Why would I want more than one single MM running 19 points death magic = 11 x level 21 minions, more than enough meat shield and no exhaustion of corpses Yes, because GLOOM HM is the only thing to do in guild wars.

Spiritz

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2007

DMFC

I was never a fan of discordway and sadly now i do tend to use 7h dway but i will still say that dway has quite a few drawbacks.Yes it can fly thru most zones but because of that you will get a seriously huge drop in any drops you get.Also blasting thru things may sound really gd but as many will agree - its just button mashing and you lose the ability to think of own builds etc.
Ive played gw for 5 yrs now and done campaigns multiple times so using dway isnt really an issue - theres plenty of better builds out there.

Also the only reason dway works is because of the ar ignoring dmg - something that eles dont have atm.Before anyone says "oh but eles can nuke" - in hm any aoe will cause foes to split and thats not what you want.Why take an ele when you could easily add another discord necro ?

Jeydra

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by Venganza
View Post
Yeah, I don't know of anyone who uses Discord since 3h limit was sorted. *raises hand*

I'm not yet certain I'll settle into Discord, but it's certainly an option. The problem is that with Invoke nerfed, there is no replacement template that's as good and as effective in all areas of the game. Fire Eles work to some extent, but against monsters with huge armour vs. Fire (Destroyers, Burning Spirits, etc) they're clearly subpar. What's going to take the place? Discord stands out as one of the few options around. I'm not convinced it's ideal yet, but I won't say it's weak either (I never did). Incidentally I'll also say that I find Discord considerably weaker than pre-nerf Invoke Lightning even after change to HM, so this is scraping the bottom of the barrel.

As for Gloom HM, Discord clearly does not work well there because of the massive number of foes. Fire clearly dominates in an AoE contest.

Gabs88

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2011

You use it with Deathly Swarm or without?

Jeydra

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2008

With, obviously. If you were to put together a Discord bar carrying Fall Back, what else would you use?

Gabs88

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2011

Well prepatch you wouldnt bother bringing it at all really, armor levels and all.

Kunder

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2010

2x Deathly Swarm
4x Searing Flame

Macro all 6 to one key, AoE Discord on steroids. Make mobs explode instantly.

Rest of group throw in imba defense from ST rit/SY player/Emo/whatever. Make sure player carries EBSoH.

Xenomortis

Xenomortis

Tea Powered

Join Date: May 2008

UK

N/

How do you manage to bind skills from six heroes when the option only exists to bind skills on the first three?

Dzjudz

Dzjudz

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2005

gwpvx.com/user:dzjudz

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeydra View Post
The problem is that with Invoke nerfed, there is no replacement template that's as good and as effective in all areas of the game. Fire Eles work to some extent, but against monsters with huge armour vs. Fire (Destroyers, Burning Spirits, etc) they're clearly subpar. What's going to take the place? Discord stands out as one of the few options around. 7HPS and RoJway were around long before the update and don't use Discord.

Yuna Matsumarui

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2009

Me/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kunder
View Post
2x Deathly Swarm
4x Searing Flame

Macro all 6 to one key, AoE Discord on steroids. Make mobs explode instantly.

Rest of group throw in imba defense from ST rit/SY player/Emo/whatever. Make sure player carries EBSoH. I don't think it's possible to macro them to one key, let alone force skills that are not on heroes 1-3 by buttons.

Xenomortis

Xenomortis

Tea Powered

Join Date: May 2008

UK

N/

External macros can achieve that.

Gabs88

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dzjudz View Post
7HPS and RoJway were around long before the update and don't use Discord. RoJ heroway is far superior for a good melee character, but for a caster it's not a good option. And 7 HPS was never superior to SDM in the first place. Just dumbed down

ele kid

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jan 2008

Netherlands

[Lost]

A/

I personally am no fan of discordway, but i do know of CAN be super efficient with mercenaries. People doing hm titan quests no cons no summons no morale in insane times. Plainly dropping à meteor shower and do the usual.

Improvavel

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2007

It is fun how people still like to bash a very powerful but not broken skill.

The biggest drawback of discord is being a death magic skill.

The only stupid thing about discordway is physical chars running AP caller builds.

Gabs88

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2011

Been messing around with the build planner a bit and ATM im at this



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Anyone got a good idea about what to use the last slots for? Got a full set of mercs so can grab anything from another nec to mes to SOGM rit but unsure which would be best right now.

And if there is any elementalist builds that may fill the spot well? Cracked armor would be nice

PurpleFission

PurpleFission

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2010

Unda da Sea

Club of a Thousand Pandas[LOD???]

E/Mo

Discord is really inferior now because of the 7h patch, henchies are not that great so there had to be a condensed version of a spike and utility. aka discord. nowadays, because you have so many more heroes, discord lacks the spiking power that you could have if you had chosen a different setup. ss necro, iv necro, ST rit, and a triple mesmers with esurge, AC and ineptitude.

The forth fly

The forth fly

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2008

england

Mo/

If your new discord is perfect,not every one wants to do SoO HM with hero's or go to gloom, for casual/new players that want to finish the game or just want a few points for HoM you cant do better NM or HM

AtomicMew

AtomicMew

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2005

N/A

Quote:
Originally Posted by HigherMinion
View Post
To be honest, I think it's funny how people attribute the downfall of Discord to the introduction of 7H. Discord is actually stronger since the acquirement of seven heroes.

You have your three single-target, hybrid Discord heroes dealing single-target spike damage with hybrid stuff, like heals and command skills/prot, etc. then you bring AoE stuff on the other characters, it's obvious. You don't have to take two monks, etc.

People are jumping at the chance to say they dislike Discord because it makes them look less stupid, when it's having the opposite effect. Or rather, it would have the opposite effect if everyone wasn't following suit. It's true.

Discordway's true strength was being able to compress damage, heals, minions and/or prots on to one hero bar. It was very strong and still is decent today. With 7 heroes, you just do not need that kind of bar compression. Nowadays, you can get the same kind of single target spike you'd get with 3 discords, without taking discord.

For reference, I completed all of Slavers' HM with H/H discordway.

No other H/H setup for casters was remotely as powerful until spirits got buffed.

Kunder

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Improvavel View Post
The biggest drawback of discord is being a death magic skill.
lolwut? Death Magic is arguably in the top 3 most useful attributes of guild wars.

Quote:
It's true.

Discordway's true strength was being able to compress damage, heals, minions and/or prots on to one hero bar. It was very strong and still is decent today. With 7 heroes, you just do not need that kind of bar compression. Nowadays, you can get the same kind of single target spike you'd get with 3 discords, without taking discord.

For reference, I completed all of Slavers' HM with H/H discordway.

No other H/H setup for casters was remotely as powerful until spirits got buffed. Completely untrue. Discord was never a great build even back in the 3H days. It was passable, but you could never handle elite areas well with it.

Kaida the Heartless

Kaida the Heartless

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2006

N/

Discord has always been and continues to be a strong, viable option for players. In fact, you can, with relative ease, complete anything in the game next to DoA HM. I'd imagine that with some patience, you could even use it to complete DoA HM as well. It won't net you the best times for completions [anywhere]; it isn't a tweaked per-dungeon/location build but it'll still clear quickly and easily. The strength must be seen in a broader perspective; it is a build meant for general success, and it does that well.

Swingline

Swingline

Forge Runner

Join Date: Sep 2010

Somewhere far away from you

The Mirror of Reason[SNOW]

W/

The only reason discord is still around is because of its bar compression, past popularity and unwillingness to switch from a build that they are accustomed to running even though its fallen as a top tier build.

Kunder

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by AtomicMew View Post
@Kunder: repeating what you've said again and again doesn't make it true.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AtomicMew View Post
Forgewight on the other hand I just could not finish without DP removers. There was no necro version of ER that jeydra used to finish it :P Yeah, thanks for doing that for me.

Quote: Afaik, only Jeydra completed forgewight on a caster with no consumables or at least, he was the first. Other people may have replicated his achievement with his build using ER, but that was not available to me at the time since I played exclusively on my necro.

Every other person to do forgewight HM with no consumables used a melee tank and spank.

Quote:
I did duncan several times with discord/resto, discord/MM and 1 random (usually SS or VoR) with myself as SS usually. I never did manage to get a "perfect" run, but it was very much possible. You aren't even running a discord build then, its just 2 random necros with discord instead of more powerful elites.
You aren't even running a discord build then, its just 2 random necros with discord instead of more powerful elites. Two of three casters using discord, how is that not discordway? Also, what "more powerful elites" are you talking about? For the healer especially: weapon of remedy?

You refuse to address any of the points I put forth. You have yet to contribute anything to any thread I've visited other than to attack people who disagree with you with your verbal snark. Being that you are new-ish, that is not the way to make a name for yourself.

Xslash

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2008

some ppl are just full of BS.
talking about H/H DoA.

You could never have henchmen in DoA bro.

On an unrelated note,
Obviously Discord isn't weak for it to gain so much popularity.

I think the strength in discord is the bar flexibility & compression.

Discord is quite strong when you run heroes with default weapons and no runes because you'll still kill stuff and still stay alive.

Discord is also strong when you don't have a lot of skills unlocked. Basically get Discord, then 7 other spells and herpderp your way through the game.

AtomicMew

AtomicMew

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2005

N/A

Haha, that's true.

LexTalionis

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Apr 2011

I assume this discussion is talking about pre 7Hero HM Slaver's, as Slaver's is quite completable as a solo caster these days (Done it with Dwayna, although it's largely a spirit build anyway). That being said, I don't really want to get involved in this debate.

@Gabs: Cracked is probably best done by Curses, but the only thing you'd really be buffing is deathly swarm and minions, the rest of your skills are mostly armour ignoring. You could probably live without it. I'd suggest Hexbreaker Aria (your team is mostly spellcasting and hex removal light) or Hex eater signet. Throw the rez onto the mesmer instead of the discord necro.

As for the eight slot, how about Icy veins? You'd have to micro it (ideally to the same key as AP), but it probably works pretty well with Discord.