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Originally Posted by HigherMinion
It makes more sense for Guard to be like this.
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Update - Thursday, March 1, 2012
Voodoo Rage
Jk Arrow
Fight seems to correct most of the issues I was having with heroes not reacting. The guard status seems to have changed quite a bit. For those really struggling try that and it should help. I haven't tested anything with reactions while flagged yet.
JK
JK
cosyfiep
sigh...just did a vanquish with my heroes....good thing spirits and minions arent affected by this update or I would just stop playing....I never flagged my heroes...I can now pull WITH A WAND mobs into my group without having my heroes do anything! I watched sosucky just stand there and get bombed (I thought on guard they would at least fight if they take damage, nope, now they just stand there--kind of like when they are in aoe....).
sigh and sigh...guess I could do some house cleaning....
sigh and sigh...guess I could do some house cleaning....
Tom Swift
also seemed to affect summoning stones. My ooze was hopping around sight seeing in the middle of a battle.
Rushin Roulette
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Originally Posted by DRGN
I know it's hard for people to not be insecure and try to make themselves look elite in PvE, but let's stop and look at what happened:
If the update has worked as intended, heroes would behave how you want on guard when flagged and behaved normally when unflagged. Theyscrewed up and affected unflagged hero behavior as well. This was unintended going by the update notes themselves and Zack Nickerson's comments in a thread about flagged heroes having problems on Guard, which is exactly what this patch was to address. Again, if the update worked as intended, you would be able to have heroes work as you like and so would everyone who liked them before. You're basically saying "I hope Anet doesn't revert something they screwed up and never intended to do in the first place because I like it". If there's anyone I hope Anet doesn't listen to, it's someone with that kind of mentality. |
Try setting the Melee heroes to "Fight" if you want the old agro"controll" back before complaining. My heroes are working fine if I set the Casters to "Guard" and the Melee to "Fight".
The only thing Id like Anet to look at is the "Avoid Combat" button. A few of my Monk Heroe bars use Mesmer interrupts for energy management, but refuse to use them if set to "Avoid combat" even if they are already in the middle of combat. It would be nice if they would use it without haveing to be set to "Guard", but as written there is a way around it. I just have to accept them randomly wanding enemies durign a fight
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Lasai
timing on this could not be worse for me. 10 tyrian zones left to VQ.. and 4 of them coming up in the next 5 days as Z missions.
rant rant. Not looking forward to what shiverpeaks casters and Rangers are gonna do safely out of aggro bubble.
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My casters will stand there and take hit after hit on guard. unflagged.. and do nothing if the mob is out of their aggro radius. That is not guard as currently described.
First part of what a hero says when put on "guard" is an unconditional "I will defend us from Attackers" It is not defense to stand there and take damage regardless of aggro bubble.
Livia was particularly idiotic, as she would run forward to nova minions.. but not attack, set spirits. or use any offensive skill. run up, nova, run back even if she was attacked. unflagged.
Take your on "guard" casters through something like consulate docks, full of high ground bowmen and watch them do nothing but take hits.
Better yet.. give Zos Shiv a whirl. Naga rangers should be just special now.
rant rant. Not looking forward to what shiverpeaks casters and Rangers are gonna do safely out of aggro bubble.
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Originally Posted by Rushin Roulette
Actually, I for one agree with Minion in this case. Read the Buttons you use to controll the Heroes with. In my Guild Wars, the middle option is "Guard". The Update sets the Heroes to actually guard the group instead of the old option which was more like "Randomly agro half the map".
Try setting the Melee heroes to "Fight" if you want the old agro"controll" back before complaining. My heroes are working fine if I set the Casters to "Guard" and the Melee to "Fight". The only thing Id like Anet to look at is the "Avoid Combat" button. A few of my Monk Heroe bars use Mesmer interrupts for energy management, but refuse to use them if set to "Avoid combat" even if they are already in the middle of combat. It would be nice if they would use it without haveing to be set to "Guard", but as written there is a way around it. I just have to accept them randomly wanding enemies durign a fight . |
First part of what a hero says when put on "guard" is an unconditional "I will defend us from Attackers" It is not defense to stand there and take damage regardless of aggro bubble.
Livia was particularly idiotic, as she would run forward to nova minions.. but not attack, set spirits. or use any offensive skill. run up, nova, run back even if she was attacked. unflagged.
Take your on "guard" casters through something like consulate docks, full of high ground bowmen and watch them do nothing but take hits.
Better yet.. give Zos Shiv a whirl. Naga rangers should be just special now.
cosyfiep
yeah, GUARD to me says 'when I take damage I will fight back' AVOID to me says 'I wont fight EVEN if I get hit'...right now even guard is doing avoid--my casters just sit and take hits and do NOTHING about it--that is not guard. I really dont want to put them on FIGHT as that says 'run around and argo the whole map, the next map and 2 more maps'...there needs to be something in between again, right now we have avoid and fight.
davehall
Issue with hero behaviour from the last update has already been reported on the official support site, here.
DRGN
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Originally Posted by Rushin Roulette
Actually, I for one agree with Minion in this case. Read the Buttons you use to controll the Heroes with. In my Guild Wars, the middle option is "Guard". The Update sets the Heroes to actually guard the group instead of the old option which was more like "Randomly agro half the map".
Try setting the Melee heroes to "Fight" if you want the old agro"controll" back before complaining. My heroes are working fine if I set the Casters to "Guard" and the Melee to "Fight". The only thing Id like Anet to look at is the "Avoid Combat" button. A few of my Monk Heroe bars use Mesmer interrupts for energy management, but refuse to use them if set to "Avoid combat" even if they are already in the middle of combat. It would be nice if they would use it without haveing to be set to "Guard", but as written there is a way around it. I just have to accept them randomly wanding enemies durign a fight . |
Once again, I don't see the point in defending this at all. Applying this change only to flagged heroes(which was intended) would give everyone what they want. It's amazing what people will defend.
And no, this is not aimed at you, this is aimed at the more abrasive members of the community who would sincerely say "stop QQing" if Anet released an update that caused everyone in a district to explode if a person typed "boners" in local chat.
Winola
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Originally Posted by Rushin Roulette
Actually, I for one agree with Minion in this case. Read the Buttons you use to controll the Heroes with. In my Guild Wars, the middle option is "Guard". The Update sets the Heroes to actually guard the group instead of the old option which was more like "Randomly agro half the map".
Try setting the Melee heroes to "Fight" if you want the old agro"controll" back before complaining. My heroes are working fine if I set the Casters to "Guard" and the Melee to "Fight". The only thing Id like Anet to look at is the "Avoid Combat" button. A few of my Monk Heroe bars use Mesmer interrupts for energy management, but refuse to use them if set to "Avoid combat" even if they are already in the middle of combat. It would be nice if they would use it without haveing to be set to "Guard", but as written there is a way around it. I just have to accept them randomly wanding enemies durign a fight . |
Maybe you have minion masters and spirit spammers as caster heroes (as spirit and minion behaviour is unaffected)? I just tried running somewhere with elementalists and mesmers and it was a bit of a nuisance.
Voodoo Rage
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Originally Posted by Winola
How did you get your casters to do anything on guard? For me casters set to guard do nothing even then the foes are literally on top of them they just stand around idling. Calling targets within their aggro range doesn't help reliably either. Sometimes a few of the heroes will attack, other times they just take the damage. When dealing with a ranged mob they just stand back and let me leeroy. And no, I didn't flag them.
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Winola
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Originally Posted by Voodoo Rage
Wow, sounds like my heroes are now going to be just as effective as my pets. lol
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Fortunately. But I shall postpone trying to get the hang of UW heroway until I am more used to the new system.
Horus Moonlight
Genius! ANet is weaning players off heroes for GW2. An unexpected and brilliant move!
HigherMinion
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Originally Posted by Voodoo Rage
It makes sense for heroes to stand around taking caster damage without reacting at all? Some guard...
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Horus Moonlight
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Originally Posted by Voodoo Rage
It makes sense for heroes to stand around taking caster damage without reacting at all? Some guard...
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Originally Posted by HigherMinion
I use melee heroes and they were triggering Mark of Pain better than usual, while never kiting the target foe. Do you call? Do you have your heroes set to aggressive? Because I see nothing bad going on so far... Only dagger spammery and Mark Triggery. Which is what I wanted.
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TheGizzy
I have two different minion bombers I regularly roll with, and I typically run an SoS build myself... then I've got a UA healer, & three mesmers (I have Razah as a mesmer) running Panic/Ineptitude/Keystone. My 8th varies - often Koss as an earth shaker.
Usually I have a problem with Koss shadow stepping to foes before I'm ready. I noticed during the ZVQ he wasn't doing that. Flip side is that I also noticed the little Panic (!!)s weren't popping up everywhere like they usually do.
Neither situation caused me any trouble in the VQ, but I always have a veritable army of minions plus my spirits, so that's not really surprising. I CAN see where this is going to be a big issue if I can't run my standard 7-hero party though, like when there aren't plenty of fleshy corpses. And there was a lot more hex removal going on instead of stopping it before it could hit us like usual.
I'm going to try going out with my mesmers on fight and see what sort of difference (if any) that makes for me. My UA healer has always been on avoid and seems to stick to me like a glove unless flagged, so I haven't noticed any particular ill effects in that regard.
But based on what I see so many people describing, especially in terms of heroes standing around taking damage if the foes are above/below, it sounds to me like a bug was added, not fixed. It'll be interesting to see if ANet responds to the thread about this on the Support site.
Usually I have a problem with Koss shadow stepping to foes before I'm ready. I noticed during the ZVQ he wasn't doing that. Flip side is that I also noticed the little Panic (!!)s weren't popping up everywhere like they usually do.
Neither situation caused me any trouble in the VQ, but I always have a veritable army of minions plus my spirits, so that's not really surprising. I CAN see where this is going to be a big issue if I can't run my standard 7-hero party though, like when there aren't plenty of fleshy corpses. And there was a lot more hex removal going on instead of stopping it before it could hit us like usual.
I'm going to try going out with my mesmers on fight and see what sort of difference (if any) that makes for me. My UA healer has always been on avoid and seems to stick to me like a glove unless flagged, so I haven't noticed any particular ill effects in that regard.
But based on what I see so many people describing, especially in terms of heroes standing around taking damage if the foes are above/below, it sounds to me like a bug was added, not fixed. It'll be interesting to see if ANet responds to the thread about this on the Support site.
Kelfer
Quote:
| ANet is weaning players off heroes for GW2 |
This update is just a mess for those of us who've been using caster teams up until now, but maybe that's just exactly what was intended.
Anet, I can already solo stuff!
It would be better if 7 dummies weren't around whilst trying it, unless they only count as meat shields now.
This build is a prime example:
OAOk0IgqoSiz1sce2gmYMHXBDNC
Any of the Rit heroes will cast Splinter on any phys player or hero correctly and use Rift properly, however, spirits are only being used when enemies are already inside the aggro bubble.
And: Setting a bunch of dagger spammers to attack and using MoP is gonna get you into big trouble in HM!
Mintha Syl
Reading through all these pages really makes me shiver. It was already night when the update came so I only had time to read the notes, but I didn't have the chance to get in game and try yet. But reading the comments gives me enough already...I really really really hope they revert this mess back, or heroes will be almost useless meh :/ They must have confused the concepts of "fixing" and "screwing up" apparently...so they even test, sometimes?
Swingline
Besides lore, GW1 and GW2 are completely different games. There is no reason to "ween" players off heroes.
zwei2stein
Perhabs fix for AFK glint farm?
Mintha Syl
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Originally Posted by zwei2stein
Perhabs fix for AFK glint farm?
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VikingHaag
Ok, my heroes are now getting wiped in NM in areas i VQ with builds worse than the one i'm using..... thanks Anet for making it now impossible to finish some of my titles nerfing heroes....
AndrewSX
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Originally Posted by zwei2stein
Perhabs fix for AFK glint farm?
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VikingHaag
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Originally Posted by AndrewSX
Even if it is, it doesn't mean you can screw up the hero behaviour in every other area.
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Vilaptca
Well this sure explains the problems I was having today while trying to do the cleansing quests on all my characters. All of a sudden they got stupid and now that I got home from work and read about this update, I can see why. I hope they fix it soon, it made for some rough fights on Minister Cho's Estate.
Missing HB
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Originally Posted by VikingHaag
Ok, my heroes are now getting wiped in NM in areas i VQ with builds worse than the one i'm using..... thanks Anet for making it now impossible to finish some of my titles nerfing heroes....
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I don't really get something however... It's like every single IA fix update makes heroes worse than they were before.. Henchmen won't play the same as humans anyway, it's obvious( troll mode on : hopefully they deleted hero battles..)
Mintha Syl
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Originally Posted by VikingHaag
until we find builds that actually work with this new DUMB ai
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Highlander Of Alba
The worst update in a long time re heros
As these guys not only stand still and take damageI think what anet is looking at is to try the melee heros for a change.
Have did vanq on some toons on alts and there ai response is the worse i have seen in over 6 years.
Are anet trying to remove what this game was intended for...FUN YES FUN
Ok so now they wish to you micromanage them now its seems or revalue your approach to the game whatever?
It can be done by more running movement to engage the heros ai to do something .....ITS this....IF it aint broke dont try to fix something that is not needed.
It also seems that the post on anets support forum regarding this has vanished as was going to add and now its not there
So guys please dont listen to a few guys and say oh yes lets swing a bat at it
srry for the rant but just could not ressist when something like this tries to spoil a fun game with the heros new update
As these guys not only stand still and take damageI think what anet is looking at is to try the melee heros for a change.
Have did vanq on some toons on alts and there ai response is the worse i have seen in over 6 years.
Are anet trying to remove what this game was intended for...FUN YES FUN
Ok so now they wish to you micromanage them now its seems or revalue your approach to the game whatever?
It can be done by more running movement to engage the heros ai to do something .....ITS this....IF it aint broke dont try to fix something that is not needed.
It also seems that the post on anets support forum regarding this has vanished as was going to add and now its not there
So guys please dont listen to a few guys and say oh yes lets swing a bat at it
srry for the rant but just could not ressist when something like this tries to spoil a fun game with the heros new update
Kelfer
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Originally Posted by zwei2stein
Perhabs fix for AFK glint farm?
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Retro8bitje
Ok, this is a pretty big fail. Hope this get fixed asap. Can't believe they intended this. first make ai better then ruin it XD.
HigherMinion
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Originally Posted by Horus Moonlight
Using substitution of notions to skip over a point is just bad form...
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enter_the_zone
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Originally Posted by HigherMinion
Complaining about heroes not working when mine are? I didn't skip anything, sir. I was explaining how they will work how they did before, but better. Set everyone to Aggressive.
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Kook~NBK~
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Originally Posted by HigherMinion
Complaining about heroes not working when mine are? I didn't skip anything, sir. I was explaining how they will work how they did before, but better. Set everyone to Aggressive.
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VikingHaag
Well, at least i found a build viable for NM for time being.
Thank god GW has pbaoe skills.
Thank god GW has pbaoe skills.
Wielder Of Magic
agressive works, but be careful with doing so in quests and places that grant allies ( like WoC with people like Zei Ri/Miku), as heroes will rush 4-5 aggro bubbles away from you if there is an ally under attack at that spot.
Sure its partly remedied by changing them to guard for a few seconds/flagging, but it requires a lot more micro than it used to.
Sure its partly remedied by changing them to guard for a few seconds/flagging, but it requires a lot more micro than it used to.
zelgadissan
Currently at work but I planned on finishing up the rest of WoC HM today, starting with the Raid on Kaineng Center. You guys are really making me scared.
Am I basically forced to use a melee hero now to protect casters from instant, retarded, unopposed death?
Am I basically forced to use a melee hero now to protect casters from instant, retarded, unopposed death?
enter_the_zone
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Originally Posted by zelgadissan
Currently at work but I planned on finishing up the rest of WoC HM today, starting with the Raid on Kaineng Center. You guys are really making me scared.
Am I basically forced to use a melee hero now to protect casters from instant, retarded, unopposed death? |
Mintha Syl
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Originally Posted by HigherMinion
Complaining about heroes not working when mine are? I didn't skip anything, sir. I was explaining how they will work how they did before, but better. Set everyone to Aggressive.
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It's not "complaining about heroes not working". It's complaining of guard mode not working. And guard is what the update was addessed to, I don't see what aggressive mode has to do with this discussion at all.
Tullzinski
Anet, Please fix guard mode(Adjusted the aggro range of flagged heroes and henchmen.). 
DiogoSilva
The new Guard Mode wouldn't even be that bad, if Fight mode wasn't so useless. The new Guard Mode works greatly for supportive heroes. I haven't seen my minions blowing with death nova so many times as since the last update.
But the problem is, Fight is useless. It's radical. It's kamikaze. If Fight was toned down to be more balanced like the old Guard, I could see both working well. But as it isn't, and with Guard now as it is, your heroes are either sitting ducks or suicidal psychotics.
But the problem is, Fight is useless. It's radical. It's kamikaze. If Fight was toned down to be more balanced like the old Guard, I could see both working well. But as it isn't, and with Guard now as it is, your heroes are either sitting ducks or suicidal psychotics.