Elementalist
Aura of Restoration (PvP): split for PvP; reduced healing to 200...400% of the Energy cost.
Stone Sheath: increased recharge to 15 seconds; reduced armor bonus to 1...30.
Mesmer
Illusion of Haste (PvP): split for PvP; increased recharge to 8 seconds; removed the following functionality: "removes Crippled condition."
Illusion of Pain (PvP): split for PvP; added the following functionality: "Ends if reapplied."
Monk
Healing Breeze: increased recharge to 5 seconds.
Peace and Harmony: decreased recharge to 10 seconds.
Guild Wars Wiki notes
Illusion of Pain (PvP) is 15 energy.
EDIT: ^23th update reverted its cost back to 10.
Update - Thursday, March 22, 2012
DiogoSilva
Pierre Francese
RIP Illusion of Pain
DiogoSilva
I don't understand most of those changes, maybe something to do with GvG, which I don't play.
Illusion of Pain was nerfed quite hard.
Illusion of Pain was nerfed quite hard.
lord norke
Quote:
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Originally Posted by DiogoSilva
I don't understand most of those changes, maybe something to do with GvG, which I don't play.
Illusion of Pain was nerfed quite hard. |
AODeleman
Maybe PnH will see some play again in GvG. Maybe.
MithranArkanere
The previous illusion of pain was a pain.
I always though of that skill as a finisher you use when the enemy's HP is low enough, so they won't get the HP unless they use hex removal. But they were reapplying it to keep the damage going.
That's no finisher.
I hope they use it as a finisher now instead (if they even use it).
I always though of that skill as a finisher you use when the enemy's HP is low enough, so they won't get the HP unless they use hex removal. But they were reapplying it to keep the damage going.
That's no finisher.
I hope they use it as a finisher now instead (if they even use it).
DiogoSilva
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Originally Posted by MithranArkanere
The previous illusion of pain was a pain.
I always though of that skill as a finisher you use when the enemy's HP is low enough, so they won't get the HP unless they use hex removal. But they were reapplying it to keep the damage going. That's no finisher. I hope they use it as a finisher now instead (if they even use it). |
MithranArkanere
Quote:
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Originally Posted by DiogoSilva
But was the nerf to 15 energy needed? Maybe to be in line with Conjure Nightmare, but considering the high risk already involved...
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shadows of hob
Nobody will use IOP anymore, obviously. It got Smiter's Boned.
AoR and SS was a good nerf, it was fairly powerful.
AoR and SS was a good nerf, it was fairly powerful.
Kunder
IoP was pretty imba in certain formats, but yeah this is nearly a smiter's boon. Degen will never be good for a finisher and as a DoT it is now conjure nightmare with slightly less damage, much shorter duration, and heals the enemy if removed early.
StormDragonZ
Thanks ANet! The only reason I did PvP was a build I created using Illusion of Pain as a double cover hex for more annoying hexes.
This proves I was a viable threat to the sanity of PvP!
This proves I was a viable threat to the sanity of PvP!
tealspikes
This patch was primarily aimed at GvG.
Illusion of Pain was a 1 skill wonder. You could take it and a full bar of non-damage utility and still kill stuff quickly if it didn't have heals/removal. So strong considering it wasn't even an elite. It was used primarily on split where there would be less or no hex removal.
Illusion of Haste is still a good run skill, however the build that would want it ^ just got nerfed hard. Now illusion split mesmers need to learn to dodge pin down when running through the base.
Stone Sheath was way too strong defensively and I don't think it was hit hard enough. The +armor is the real problem with the skill and that hardly took a hit.
Aura of Resto was slightly overbuffed in the patch awhile ago. Eles could essentially negate any pressure coming from a single enemy. This was most problematic on the Mind Blast ele, who could literally spam his fast recharge spells forever without requiring any context or timing when using those spells.
Healing Breeze is another spell that points to the popular Mind Blast template in GvG. As an infinite energy engine, it could spam HB over a large number of players with no real downside.
Only thing I'm confused about in this update is PnH buff. Back to the dartboard, Anet?
Illusion of Pain was a 1 skill wonder. You could take it and a full bar of non-damage utility and still kill stuff quickly if it didn't have heals/removal. So strong considering it wasn't even an elite. It was used primarily on split where there would be less or no hex removal.
Illusion of Haste is still a good run skill, however the build that would want it ^ just got nerfed hard. Now illusion split mesmers need to learn to dodge pin down when running through the base.
Stone Sheath was way too strong defensively and I don't think it was hit hard enough. The +armor is the real problem with the skill and that hardly took a hit.
Aura of Resto was slightly overbuffed in the patch awhile ago. Eles could essentially negate any pressure coming from a single enemy. This was most problematic on the Mind Blast ele, who could literally spam his fast recharge spells forever without requiring any context or timing when using those spells.
Healing Breeze is another spell that points to the popular Mind Blast template in GvG. As an infinite energy engine, it could spam HB over a large number of players with no real downside.
Only thing I'm confused about in this update is PnH buff. Back to the dartboard, Anet?
headlesshobbs
Quote:
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Originally Posted by StormDragonZ
Thanks ANet! The only reason I did PvP was a build I created using Illusion of Pain as a double cover hex for more annoying hexes.
This proves I was a viable threat to the sanity of PvP! |
HigherMinion
The PaH buff is odd. Considering the best non-elite hex removal which removes multiple hexes is 12s recharge but 1s cast and requires you have recharging divine skills for it to function, I thought 15s was the perfect balance. Although, the risk is greater as an elite hex removal as you lose WoH or your other bar-pusher. Maybe this was warranted.
loshon
Healing Breeze recharge decrease will make killing the monks in FoW a little easier, especially the Priest.
_Aphotic_
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Originally Posted by headlesshobbs
I'm guessing, you're one of those users who kept re-applying it?
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-CA Mesmers can be effectively snared and killed now... great for collapses since they're quite the nuisance...
-MB Eles have to focus healing more on themselves now, with this, could the WC sin possibly be forced to bring a self-heal...?
-Lol PnH. Such a fun skill.
-Cheers to Stone Sheath, it really needed a nerf.
Wika Sham
....And they didn't touch shockwave...Come on, a little bit longer recharge please. All they did with the nerf to stone sheath is make Shockwave all the more popular...
StormDragonZ
Quote:
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Originally Posted by headlesshobbs
I'm guessing, you're one of those users who kept re-applying it?
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depeche
This update is primarily focussed on GvG, namely countering the countless split teams.
As usual, A-Net went over the top again and killed some skills (IoP and IoH).
Let me comment a little bit on the changes :
Aura of Restoration (PvP): split for PvP; reduced healing to 200...400% of the Energy cost.
Ok with this, it needed a bit of tone down.
Stone Sheath: increased recharge to 15 seconds; reduced armor bonus to 1...30.
Agree with this, might be that the nerf needed to be stronger because the skill is still to OP.
Illusion of Haste (PvP): split for PvP; increased recharge to 8 seconds; removed the following functionality: "removes Crippled condition."
hmm, ok this one will never see use again
Illusion of Pain (PvP): split for PvP; added the following functionality: "Ends if reapplied."
And again, a skill completely wiped from everyone's build.
Not sure on how they could have toned it down better, but this way you are just killing the skill.
Healing Breeze: increased recharge to 5 seconds.
Good
Peace and Harmony: decreased recharge to 10 seconds.
The skill still isn't good enough to warrant bringing it
I think a nerf was needed for the overpowered mesmer split build.
But ...
This update is the same as removing the keyskills from the build.
If you do it like this, well then just remove the skill all together.
As usual, A-Net went over the top again and killed some skills (IoP and IoH).
Let me comment a little bit on the changes :
Aura of Restoration (PvP): split for PvP; reduced healing to 200...400% of the Energy cost.
Ok with this, it needed a bit of tone down.
Stone Sheath: increased recharge to 15 seconds; reduced armor bonus to 1...30.
Agree with this, might be that the nerf needed to be stronger because the skill is still to OP.
Illusion of Haste (PvP): split for PvP; increased recharge to 8 seconds; removed the following functionality: "removes Crippled condition."
hmm, ok this one will never see use again
Illusion of Pain (PvP): split for PvP; added the following functionality: "Ends if reapplied."
And again, a skill completely wiped from everyone's build.
Not sure on how they could have toned it down better, but this way you are just killing the skill.
Healing Breeze: increased recharge to 5 seconds.
Good
Peace and Harmony: decreased recharge to 10 seconds.
The skill still isn't good enough to warrant bringing it
I think a nerf was needed for the overpowered mesmer split build.
But ...
This update is the same as removing the keyskills from the build.
If you do it like this, well then just remove the skill all together.
AndrewSX
Ele changes were quite expected.
Mes ones are nerfing splitting in GvG, but the Monk changes are a bit odd.
Mes ones are nerfing splitting in GvG, but the Monk changes are a bit odd.
HigherMinion
But why nerf splitting at all? Isn't it a good dynamic? That teams have to collapse frequently and keep back a member to encounter the inevitable duo or quad splits? Are they promoting 8v8 play with this? Taking some of tactics out if it goes that way.
superraptors
killing variety of builds like usual.
discouraging splitting, what a shame.
discouraging splitting, what a shame.
Ayuhmii Shanbwa
this wont hurt pve much... or at all, but plz anet, make more splits after this
now its 2 skills i barely and dont use (barely = stone sheath, just for survivors of mine) (dont use = healing breeze and PoH)
now you see again: pvp will hurt pve if they dont make more splits
it didnt do much at all now, but to avoid hurting pve, they should make more skill splits
these skills now are still useful in pve, so i hope they think about the future
remember people: pvp and pve are totally different, and taking away the fun of skills in pve cuz of pvp make people leave
they may split all skills for all i care, as i dont like pvp at all, and enjoy pve alot
so as i said: this update does NOT hurt pve (i say it in case people reply without reading that part)
and plz dont use an excuse like "pve is too easy" as that is all matter of the people who play
and everyday there will be newbies who start to learn about GW even without pvx, so its not just farming which make stone sheath and others popular
now its 2 skills i barely and dont use (barely = stone sheath, just for survivors of mine) (dont use = healing breeze and PoH)
now you see again: pvp will hurt pve if they dont make more splits
it didnt do much at all now, but to avoid hurting pve, they should make more skill splits
these skills now are still useful in pve, so i hope they think about the future
remember people: pvp and pve are totally different, and taking away the fun of skills in pve cuz of pvp make people leave
they may split all skills for all i care, as i dont like pvp at all, and enjoy pve alot
so as i said: this update does NOT hurt pve (i say it in case people reply without reading that part)
and plz dont use an excuse like "pve is too easy" as that is all matter of the people who play
and everyday there will be newbies who start to learn about GW even without pvx, so its not just farming which make stone sheath and others popular
MithranArkanere
I don't see why solo splitting should be encouraged.
People should at least go in pairs.
People should at least go in pairs.
joeparamore
Quote:
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Originally Posted by depeche;5665536[B
Illusion of Pain (PvP):[/B] split for PvP; added the following functionality: "Ends if reapplied."
And again, a skill completely wiped from everyone's build. Not sure on how they could have toned it down better, but this way you are just killing the skill. |
a) First, remove the degen. It didn't do much to begin with, so just take it out.
b) Have the damage start low, and increase over time; and everytime it's reapplied, it restarts at the lower damage amount again. Not being a math whiz, I don't know how the numbers would work out, but on the surface it seems like it would be less damage overall.
papryk
Banane will be happy with the PnH buff xD
Cuilan
I would have been fine with Healing Breeze having a 60 second recharge if it meant players would stop using it in PvE every five seconds when able.
Gabs88
Splits = Interesting gameplay
8v8 duking it out = bad gameplay
8v8 duking it out = bad gameplay
Urass
wow, micro skill adjustments faster than I can load & reload gw... have a cuppa anet, or go work on 2, or do SOMETHING useful.. lol.
lemming
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Originally Posted by HigherMinion
But why nerf splitting at all? Isn't it a good dynamic? That teams have to collapse frequently and keep back a member to encounter the inevitable duo or quad splits? Are they promoting 8v8 play with this? Taking some of tactics out if it goes that way.
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Kunder
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Originally Posted by joeparamore
Perhaps Anet could have changed IoP to something like Wastrel's Demise. To elaborate:
a) First, remove the degen. It didn't do much to begin with, so just take it out. |
Degen was 2x as powerful as the damage part.
Quote:
| b) Have the damage start low, and increase over time; and everytime it's reapplied, it restarts at the lower damage amount again. Not being a math whiz, I don't know how the numbers would work out, but on the surface it seems like it would be less damage overall. |
The overall damage would be whatever you set the damage to be. I guess you don't know what the overall damage is when you don't even think about numbers, just vague ideas? Far from being a math wiz, please go re-attend 1st grade and learn some (not so) common sense.
Quote:
| I would have been fine with Healing Breeze having a 60 second recharge if it meant players would stop using it in PvE every five seconds when able. |
Quote:
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Originally Posted by HigherMinion
But why nerf splitting at all? Isn't it a good dynamic? That teams have to collapse frequently and keep back a member to encounter the inevitable duo or quad splits? Are they promoting 8v8 play with this? Taking some of tactics out if it goes that way.
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makosi
Typically Anet laziness. Rather than addressing the fundamental issues they put out easy, symptomatic tweaks.
An update like this kind of insinuates that they're otherwise happy about the state of the game.
An update like this kind of insinuates that they're otherwise happy about the state of the game.
DiogoSilva
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Originally Posted by makosi
Typically Anet laziness. Rather than addressing the fundamental issues they put out easy, symptomatic tweaks.
An update like this kind of insinuates that they're otherwise happy about the state of the game. |
EDIT: Build today reverted IoP's cost back to 10.
Ensign
Butchering Illusion of Pain isn't to discourage splitting as a tactic, but to open up the variety of characters and the interplay of characters involved in a split.
The problem with the IoP Mes was that IoP itself provided a massive amount of bar compression. Since that single skill was nearly enough to kill on its own, the IoP Mes was free to pack his bar with utility, with a free elite *and* a free secondary to choose from. Purely on a split, the IoP Mes was a dominant character - there wasn't anything you could bring that could realistically beat one, and teams had to play to stalemate the Mes while winning on the other half of the map.
Removing that skill removes the character, which should open up splits to a variety of characters that were kept from being viable by the split Mes.
The problem with the IoP Mes was that IoP itself provided a massive amount of bar compression. Since that single skill was nearly enough to kill on its own, the IoP Mes was free to pack his bar with utility, with a free elite *and* a free secondary to choose from. Purely on a split, the IoP Mes was a dominant character - there wasn't anything you could bring that could realistically beat one, and teams had to play to stalemate the Mes while winning on the other half of the map.
Removing that skill removes the character, which should open up splits to a variety of characters that were kept from being viable by the split Mes.
Surgo
Too much to hope for the second part of the ele update yet? Ah well.
Missing HB
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Originally Posted by lemming
I wouldn't rule out the possibility that illusion split mesmers were straight-up unfun to play against.
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Let's be honest, what's boring isn't facing splitters, it's the fact that every single split consists of a/el + el/mo + illusion mesmer . But i'm not so sure that facing the same builds over and over on 8v8 for 20minutes will be any more fun...
Besides,once again, are these updates exclusively about GvG or all formats are taken into account ??
superraptors
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Originally Posted by Kunder
There is a disparity between promoting splits and letting players deal 240 (300 with mantra of persistence) damage with a 5e non-elite skill to anything without hex removal (often requiring multiple hex removals if you stack). It's also equally valid to state that this promotes splitting, because now a team of rangers/eles/rits/etc can actually survive the act of a split confrontation vs mesmers, encouraging them to split more often. |
HigherMinion
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Originally Posted by Missing HB
If the update made sense, they should have just " nerfed" everything, so players would create new splitting builds, and others would have to counter those with normal ones.. Nerfing splitting, but not touching classic builds, you know where it will lead to probably...
Let's be honest, what's boring isn't facing splitters, it's the fact that every single split consists of a/el + el/mo + illusion mesmer . But i'm not so sure that facing the same builds over and over on 8v8 for 20minutes will be any more fun... Besides,once again, are these updates exclusively about GvG or all formats are taken into account ?? |
Swingline
Stone Sheath I get but the rest is worthless.
The revert of IoP is a clear sign they don't know what the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO they are doing.
The revert of IoP is a clear sign they don't know what the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO they are doing.
lemming
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Swingline
The revert of IoP is a clear sign they don't know what the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO they are doing.
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