30 Apr 2012 at 00:22 - 1
We all know how Guild Wars likes to screw around with drop chances. We don't open chests for this reason; we want a gold and those lucky/unlucky/treasure hunter points.
Plenty of people have claimed the best run for this goal is Pongmei Valley; leaving from Boreas. In Hard Mode, the run takes about 5 minutes across a vast map scoring you three chests, with the chance for a 4th occasionally. This is a very ineffective way to get your titles if it's not just echo you want.
I've been chest running on my necromancer now for a few weeks in Witman's Folly in Normal Mode. I have a 63% retention rate, but here's the cool part:
Witman's Folly, leaving from Port Sledge, yields a consistent 3 chests which only cover half the map, 80% of the time. On average, each run takes 3 minutes (hitting /age brings up 3 mins on the counter, but I often hit 2).
The bottom line, if you're looking to max out your chest hunting/wisdom/luck/unlucky titles, there is no faster run that will help you achieve this.
~HM
P.S. (Leaving from Port Sledge, just go anticlockwise)
30 Apr 2012 at 00:35 - 2
You have a very bad misconception about Pongmei Valley. First of all, 5 minutes is a terrible time for that run, unless you're doing two accounts. A regular run for me is a little over 3 minutes. Secondly, My average chest rate is something like... 3.6? It goes from 3-5 usually. Also, although an echo is fairly rare, almost every drop will be better than Witman's.
By the way, don't we have a chest running thread for this discussion?
30 Apr 2012 at 01:31 - 3
Now that I study my times; I am contantly hitting sub 3 minute runs. Running in NM saves cash and gets Lucky fast. What's the issue with this run?
30 Apr 2012 at 02:29 - 4
One problem I have with that run is that, if you're getting 3 chests in 3 minutes (or even slightly sub 3), you're getting fewer chests than Pongmei. Now, there are other things to consider. For instance, HM Pongmei only gives me somewhere in the 30's for retention, so it is not optimal for Lucky. However, that will make it better for my unlucky title. Saying that one run is the overall best in all categories is just... false. For instance, when I want to run in NM to boost my lucky, I prefer to run in Hell's Precipice. I find that when I run in Pongmei I usually break even or sometimes even make money when I get a good drop. If we're taking cash saved into account I think that will beat most normal mode runs in Witman's Folly. So, to sum this up:
Pongmei (HM) Vs. Witmans Folly (NM)
Lucky Title Progression: Witman's Folly
Unlucky Title Progression: Pongmei
Treasure Hunter: Debatable, but I'd say Pongmei
Wisdom: Pongmei (More golds as it is in HM)
Cash Saved/Earned: Pongmei (Tomes as well as items)
30 Apr 2012 at 02:31 - 5
Any love for the vermin area in Sheng Tunnels? It seems like I can hit 2-3 chests pretty quickly with tons of celestial drops.
30 Apr 2012 at 02:42 - 6
Oh, I'm in no way doubting that there are other great runs, I was just contesting "The bottom line, if you're looking to max out your chest hunting/wisdom/luck/unlucky titles, there is no faster run that will help you achieve this," because I just outright don't believe this and it seems like it's based on inaccurate data.
30 Apr 2012 at 12:15 - 8
witmans: 3 chests in 3 min
pongmei: 3-5 chests in 3 min
pongmei has rarer drops available, bladed shield, echo, bo staff, diamond aegis, amber aegies, etc.
running in hm pretty much always makes more money from tomes and runes
just my two cents...
30 Apr 2012 at 13:04 - 9
Okay, since I've had this discussion plenty of times before, I went out of my way to test what I believe are the best routes, and the ones others believe to be the best. I used the speed.exe program to show my EXACT time used to do a certain chestrun. I'm only going to post the links, because if I post the whole pictures, this post will be enormous.
Pongmei: 3:42|4 chests
Pongmei: 4:18|5 chests, very bad spawns
Pongmei 3:52|5 chests, suboptimal spawns
Silent Surf 3:57|5 chests
Silent Surf 3:44|4 chests
Witman's Folly 2:52|3 chests, second try
Now, a few notes, these were the first runs I've done. I didn't try to get super-times to prove a point, these were a couple of random runs I did to keep things fair. I didn't post my first Witman's Folly run because I derped and took a wrong turn, and my second one had such a good time I thought it proved the speed of the run. I did Witman's in NM though, due to people jabbing on about how to do it in NM. So take that into account.
Now, conclusion of my couple of random chestruns. I don't think I can get Witman's down much more than I already did, except if I take Shadow of Haste for when there's a chest at the imp bosses. So if I want I could do it in 2:40 I think and if spawns are good and you don't have to run up until Drok's, 2:30 is easily doable.
Whereas Pongmei and Silent Surf are both easily doable in 3:30-3:40 when you get into it a bit (I wasted 10 seconds on one of my Pongmei runs trying to pick up something and kept clicking next to it like a derp), but to be fair a lot of runs will be 3:50-4:00 as well. So 3:45 average on Pongmei I'd say and 3:40 in Silent Surf.
The difference is that I did both those areas in HM (though HM changes nothing to your times) and drops are significantly better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Voodoo Rage
Any love for the vermin area in Sheng Tunnels? It seems like I can hit 2-3 chests pretty quickly with tons of celestial drops.
As a person that really loved doing that chestrun for quite a while, I think the run takes about 1:50-2:10 minutes and yields 0-3 chests. The problem is that the chest ratio is very fickle, you can have 1 chest/run for the longest time and then 3chests a couple times. I'd say the average chests there is like 1,6-1,8 if I could take a guess. It's kind of hard run though, if you don't know how to avoid bodyblock.
I'm still sticking with Pongmei/Silent Surf.
30 Apr 2012 at 13:16 - 10
If you're going to argue about the fastest run, you should really be running as derv for permanent 50% speed boost. Pongmei with smart use of shadow of haste is easy to get to tanglewood with 3-5 chests and /age showing 3 minutes. Also, if you get lucky with chest spawns at yeti cave, IG/wallow, bridge sin and in the Am Fah muck you get 4 chests in 1-2 minutes and /resign.
I've maxed TH and unlucky and have tried all the different runs, boreal, witman, pongmei, CoF, silent surf, etc. There's a reason that people pick pongmei. Witmans isn't exactly a terrible run, but not the best.
As others have said, HM is more profitable than NM. 75% of NM drops are junk purples that sell for 90g. This topic has already been flogged in the chestrunner thread, not sure why we need another one here.
30 Apr 2012 at 13:31 - 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whirl E Vic
If you're going to argue about the fastest run, you should really be running as derv for permanent 50% speed boost. Pongmei with smart use of shadow of haste is easy to get to tanglewood with 3-5 chests and /age showing 3 minutes. Also, if you get lucky with chest spawns at yeti cave, IG/wallow, bridge sin and in the Am Fah muck you get 4 chests in 1-2 minutes and /resign.
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I actually had 4 chests at like 2:47 one run, but didn't post that screenshot because those things don't happen too often and didn't think it was fair, since we're talking about maxing TH, so off-chances shouldn't be taken into account, but you should look at the average.
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I've maxed TH and unlucky and have tried all the different runs, boreal, witman, pongmei, CoF, silent surf, etc. There's a reason that people pick pongmei. Witmans isn't exactly a terrible run, but not the best.
Same here, at 13,5k chests, I still like Pongmei the best. I run it with 2 accounts at 4:40-5:20 depending on spawns though. But still, 200% the chest rate at 125% time rate isn't something to complain about.
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As others have said, HM is more profitable than NM. 75% of NM drops are junk purples that sell for 90g. This topic has already been flogged in the chestrunner thread, not sure why we need another one here.
Agreed on both accounts. In HM I have 41% retain on one account and like 20% or something like that on the other and I actually make a solid profit running Pongmei selling my junk golds as unids for 7=5k. The Elite Tomes really make up for it.
This discussion has been held dozens of times already, no need to do it again.
30 Apr 2012 at 13:45 - 12
What's the timer you used, Bright? You need to really get average times, not just one-offs, and don't use heroes.
FYI, you don't need to use Shadowform for the Witman's run. I use Wastrel's Collapse.
30 Apr 2012 at 14:50 - 13
LOL don't use heroes is such a bullshit.. Everyone uses heroes on their chestruns because it will speed things up. It should speed things up by the same time in all areas because they are just the same everywhere.
30 Apr 2012 at 15:29 - 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by HigherMinion
What's the timer you used, Bright? You need to really get average times, not just one-offs, and don't use heroes.
FYI, you don't need to use Shadowform for the Witman's run. I use Wastrel's Collapse.
Look in this thread. You need to go to one of the last pages though, since the program has been updated a lot. Mike (Impulsion) updates the program regularly in case it doesn't work anymore. Just to give you an idea how the timer works: it starts counting whenever a new instance of an area is created. For example if you were to start the timer and zone to kama ad1, you would have basically the time since the last new build was launched and someone zoned in (since there is someone there 24/7). So when you zone in to an area, the counter starts as soon as you zone, meaning that you always lose like 3-5 seconds due to loading screen, but I didn't QQ about that, because same applied in Witman's.
Also, why shouldn't I use heroes? I use them in all the chestruns because they make things easier. I used the same hero builds in both chestruns, to keep things equally fair. I didn't go around tweaking my build for Witman's though, but since I run with my heroes most of the time, I don't see how I could get my time down significantly by build tweaking. I already stated in my first post that the times could be around 2:40 once you get around getting used to it.
And what do you mean with 'you need to get really average times'? I don't see how my times can be more average than they already are. I did 5 runs in Pongmei, 2 of which I didn't count because one was significantly faster than average runs, due to really good spawns and one because I lagged like a motherf*cker and rubber banded all over the place. Then I did 3 runs in Silent Surf, one of which I also lagged like hell, so didn't count that one in. Then did 2 runs in Witman's, one of which was terrible due to me having never done the run, and one being about as fast as it gets on average. If you want me to do more runs, it'll end up with me getting my times down even more, because I'll focus on speed. So I stayed with the couple of runs I did to keep things as fair and average as possible.
30 Apr 2012 at 15:53 - 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Star Shine
Look in this thread. You need to go to one of the last pages though, since the program has been updated a lot. Mike (Impulsion) updates the program regularly in case it doesn't work anymore. Just to give you an idea how the timer works: it starts counting whenever a new instance of an area is created. For example if you were to start the timer and zone to kama ad1, you would have basically the time since the last new build was launched and someone zoned in (since there is someone there 24/7). So when you zone in to an area, the counter starts as soon as you zone, meaning that you always lose like 3-5 seconds due to loading screen, but I didn't QQ about that, because same applied in Witman's.
Also, why shouldn't I use heroes? I use them in all the chestruns because they make things easier. I used the same hero builds in both chestruns, to keep things equally fair. I didn't go around tweaking my build for Witman's though, but since I run with my heroes most of the time, I don't see how I could get my time down significantly by build tweaking. I already stated in my first post that the times could be around 2:40 once you get around getting used to it.
And what do you mean with 'you need to get really average times'? I don't see how my times can be more average than they already are. I did 5 runs in Pongmei, 2 of which I didn't count because one was significantly faster than average runs, due to really good spawns and one because I lagged like a motherf*cker and rubber banded all over the place. Then I did 3 runs in Silent Surf, one of which I also lagged like hell, so didn't count that one in. Then did 2 runs in Witman's, one of which was terrible due to me having never done the run, and one being about as fast as it gets on average. If you want me to do more runs, it'll end up with me getting my times down even more, because I'll focus on speed. So I stayed with the couple of runs I did to keep things as fair and average as possible.
I just started using Shadow of Haste; thanks for the tip on that. I've been getting 2:10 consistently now, with 2:30 if the final chest is outside Droknar's. I've not been using heroes for my 2:10 times, either. I don't think they will speed me up, since I'm already shadowstepping like a mothertrucker and spamming Dash.
By average, I mean 3-5 runs with average times, because the chest spawns are random and therefore, I don't think 2 or 3 runs is accurate enough.
30 Apr 2012 at 16:05 - 17
kind of topic...
As you know Unlucky Title can take longer than Lucky Title, I am trying to max unlucky via chest runs any ideas which run is the best for this particular purpose.
30 Apr 2012 at 16:10 - 18
In the good old days I used to run chests just outside Boreal Station. Is that run "outdated" now ?
30 Apr 2012 at 16:37 - 19
Witmans has been my chest running spot for years, but you're doing it wrong.
Run in hard mode. Get your picks from a town your alliance owns, or someone that can get the discount. Elite tomes+selling unid golds usually nets a profit as well as offering all the title points the nm run does.
30 Apr 2012 at 17:01 - 21
I am a pongmei fan. Avg time is 1 chest/minute. HOWEVER I only run those chests that can drop echos. I start from Maatu Keep and run straight towards Tanglewood, but make the hard right hand turn and check for a chest that is close.
Its an old but short run. As far as best bang for the buck, this run has paid for itself (HM) via merch, runes, and elite tomes, for the last 3k chests. So close to 5k.
30 Apr 2012 at 17:36 - 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by HigherMinion
I just started using Shadow of Haste; thanks for the tip on that. I've been getting 2:10 consistently now, with 2:30 if the final chest is outside Droknar's. I've not been using heroes for my 2:10 times, either. I don't think they will speed me up, since I'm already shadowstepping like a mothertrucker and spamming Dash.
By average, I mean 3-5 runs with average times, because the chest spawns are random and therefore, I don't think 2 or 3 runs is accurate enough.
People continue to underestimate the power of SoH. Superraptors kept telling me how his build was better, but I saw a recent screenshot of him in Pongmei using it as well, guess he finally caved 
Well, still 2:30/3 (I'm giving you some extra ground here, cause I took the average for Witman's to be ~2:40) is 1 chest/50 seconds and 3:40/4,3 (Pongmei) is 1 chest/51 seconds. With this little difference I wouldn't dare saying that Witman's is conclusively faster, especially if you take into account that if you run Witman's in NM, you'll actually lose money doing so, so you'd have to get money elsewhere to fund your lockpicks, whereas doing Pongmei HM actually yields me profit when selling my unids + elite tomes.
I currently don't have time to do more runs to get a conclusive answer on what the average time would be. I will try to do this some time later this week, though I don't have much time on my hands, so it will probably have to wait till this weekend. I'll gladly put it to the test though.
30 Apr 2012 at 17:53 - 23
zaishen chest if u got a lot of z keys, nothing is faster 
30 Apr 2012 at 17:54 - 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Star Shine
People continue to underestimate the power of SoH. Superraptors kept telling me how his build was better, but I saw a recent screenshot of him in Pongmei using it as well, guess he finally caved
Well, still 2:30/3 (I'm giving you some extra ground here, cause I took the average for Witman's to be ~2:40) is 1 chest/50 seconds and 3:40/4,3 (Pongmei) is 1 chest/51 seconds. With this little difference I wouldn't dare saying that Witman's is conclusively faster, especially if you take into account that if you run Witman's in NM, you'll actually lose money doing so, so you'd have to get money elsewhere to fund your lockpicks, whereas doing Pongmei HM actually yields me profit when selling my unids + elite tomes.
I currently don't have time to do more runs to get a conclusive answer on what the average time would be. I will try to do this some time later this week, though I don't have much time on my hands, so it will probably have to wait till this weekend. I'll gladly put it to the test though.
FYI, my build (I'm running as N/A also, because max dwarf)
Dwarven Stability
Dark Escape
Dash
Wastrel's Collapse
Death's Charge
"I Am Unstoppable!"
Heart of Shadow
Shadow of Haste
Hope that helps with your times ^^
01 May 2012 at 17:44 - 25
Can someone tell me how to most efficiently get unlucky title points via chest runs? I spent some time on the rings and now i want to max unlucky.
01 May 2012 at 17:51 - 26
For unlucky, run Witman's in HM. You have to go slightly slower than 2:10 average because you drop Wastrel's for Shadow Form, but it's definitely the shortest run. But as Reformed said; you will max unlucky naturally before Lucky anyway. NM would be more cost-effective.
01 May 2012 at 18:48 - 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by HigherMinion
NM would be more cost-effective.
Again, it's been stated by many experienced chestrunner multiple times that running in HM is more cost-effective than NM, because of the drops you get. If you need to go for Lucky as well though, running HM won't really help you. But cost effectiveness doesn't apply in NM, and especially not in Witman's Folly. The gold drops you get in HM that are definite trash, you sell unid for 7=5k and the ones that might bring you a good buck (q9 swords, any shield that's been tested for +5xwH, q9-10 rare staffs etc) you id yourself. Doing this + selling elite tomes will get you at least break even, or maybe a little bit less if you have very low retain chance (<30%). And even in HM, the droprates in Witman's are terrible, at least Pongmei gives you the chance of getting a nice drop (and don't say it doesn't happen, I saw someone get a q9 tac +10vDemons +45wE Echovald after opening 10 chests) that can give you some money, even if it's just 20-30k.
04 May 2012 at 05:41 - 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Star Shine
Again, it's been stated by many experienced chestrunner multiple times that running in HM is more cost-effective than NM, because of the drops you get. If you need to go for Lucky as well though, running HM won't really help you. But cost effectiveness doesn't apply in NM, and especially not in Witman's Folly. The gold drops you get in HM that are definite trash, you sell unid for 7=5k and the ones that might bring you a good buck (q9 swords, any shield that's been tested for +5xwH, q9-10 rare staffs etc) you id yourself. Doing this + selling elite tomes will get you at least break even, or maybe a little bit less if you have very low retain chance (<30%). And even in HM, the droprates in Witman's are terrible, at least Pongmei gives you the chance of getting a nice drop (and don't say it doesn't happen, I saw someone get a q9 tac +10vDemons +45wE Echovald after opening 10 chests) that can give you some money, even if it's just 20-30k.
This is just ludicrous. I profit even just merching all my golds. If I wanted to profit properly, I would be able to. Golds honestly aren't scarce in NM; maybe 1:3 or so. Lockpicks tend to survive anywhere from 3-10 chests. A friend and I have been doing Witman's non-stop for the past few days now and we've found over 5 Sup Vigor runes, a few survivor insigs and a lot more major vigors. Those add up quickly and can be sold straight to the trader.
To profit from your HM Pongmei runs, I would be forced to stock up all the golds, not IDing them (bad, considering I'm title hunting), fill up my Xunlai and then sell any of the rare items I get in Kamadan, assuming they're perfectly modded. If not, it's gfg merch food.
EDIT: By the way, update on my average run time now that I'm comfortable with Shadow of Haste= 2:06.
04 May 2012 at 06:31 - 29
Have you, yourself ever tried running pongmei HM
seems like you have no clue what you're saying about the run and about chest running in HM. you are just defending a chestrun that has long been a good one, but since HM and factions became less and less profitable.
+ you say you got sup vigors in some days of running. In pongmei 1/3 ~1/4 of the items will be runes, so sup vigors aren't rare there anyways. Also 1 semi good echovald shield or any other of the rare canthan items that can drop in this chestrun, will yield more gold then 20 perfect items from whitmans.
just my 2 cnts
04 May 2012 at 13:58 - 33
I've got over 20k chests run and I'd like to see some hard numbers proving HM is more economical than NM for chest running if your goal is Treasure Hunter with the least expense. Lucky drops are by their very nature inconsistent. You could get the same amazing 1:100,000 shield drop in either mode.
04 May 2012 at 15:39 - 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reformed
I've got over 20k chests run and I'd like to see some hard numbers proving HM is more economical than NM for chest running if your goal is Treasure Hunter with the least expense. Lucky drops are by their very nature inconsistent. You could get the same amazing 1:100,000 shield drop in either mode.
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You sir, have got yourself a challenge. I have a second account that is sitting on 1,783 chests and 197,830 Lucky , and I will test both Pongmei HM and Witman's NM and note my earnings. I will do an equal amount of chests in both areas and see what is more profitable. I will conduct the research as follows: since Higherminion claims that he can stay at about break-even by merching everything, I will test this over a significant amount of chests. I will also do Pongmei HM and do my way: keep the shitty golds and sell them, id the normal ones. I'm not doing it on my main account (~13,5 chests and ~2,7mill Lucky) because this would give an unfair advantage and won't be representative for the chestrunner that wants to max his title.
Now, for the counting of my profits, I will note (and screenshot) my cash + treasure hunter progress before I start both of my tests. Also, because I don't want to waste time in kamadan selling my elite tomes, I will use the following calculations when it comes to elite tomes, using the pricing I always use when chest running myself.
Rit = 10k Necro, Ele and Monk = 7k Mesmer = 6k Warr and Ranger = 4k Ssin = 3k.
If you believe that this pricing is unrepresentative, please let me know. I will not sell any of the elite tomes I got, but I will include them in the end-screenshots to make a total earnings calculation. Since selling unids really doesn't take up that much time, I will go around actually selling them in kamadan.
I will run 200 chests in Pongmei and 200 chests in Witman's. If I find myself to be lacking of time this weekend, which I probably will, since my weekend is pretty packed, I will do 100/100, but I don't think 100 is a large enough number to be representative, so it's possible that I'll need more time than just this weekend to do the tests.
If you want HigherMinion, you can do the test as well, so that I can not be accused of foul play.
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