Do candy canes cheapen PvE by bringing down the level of skill? Serious discussion, please no "PvE players have no skill to bring down anyway" remarks, I'm looking to see if you think that the thousands of candy canes farmed and sold enable groups with little/no skill succeed when they should be failing, and does this create a dependancy?
I'm not interested in their monetary value, if others wish to make a quick buck on those foolish/unskilled enough to require them in mass ammounts that's their business.
Candy Canes, cheapening PvE?
Lelani
Loviatar
they are a fun little boost for those who want it.when they are gone they are gone.
what is the real problem?
Ravenglass
I don't think so at all - I actually like the idea - when I do get a DP - I usually think twice before popping a CC anyway - as a low DP can be easily worked off most of the time.
I would actually like to see the Merchant selling an equivalent item (and rare loot drops), this would then stop the absurd trading and collecting of the CC's.
It is obvious many people aren't that bothered by it - as there a lots of people selling them and the prices are decreasing rapidly, as no one is buying them. I know I wont pay 500g up for one, it just isn't worth it.
I would actually like to see the Merchant selling an equivalent item (and rare loot drops), this would then stop the absurd trading and collecting of the CC's.
It is obvious many people aren't that bothered by it - as there a lots of people selling them and the prices are decreasing rapidly, as no one is buying them. I know I wont pay 500g up for one, it just isn't worth it.
Racthoh
Not a big fan of them, since it takes away from the skill involve from knowing how to work from a disadvantage. If you've hoarded stacks of candy canes, good for you. It's rather insulting to the rest of the party and yourself if you're expecting to die before you even enter wherever it is you're heading off to.
Should I be punished if I party with a bad group? No. But that doesn't mean I should have a magic item that makes up for the lack of skill possessed by my other 7 companions. A good group will make mistakes every now and then, human error is unavoidable. The more experienced players know how to deal with those situations and shouldn't feel the urge to just forget about the mistake they just made that caused their death. Accept it, learn from it, and move on.
Should I be punished if I party with a bad group? No. But that doesn't mean I should have a magic item that makes up for the lack of skill possessed by my other 7 companions. A good group will make mistakes every now and then, human error is unavoidable. The more experienced players know how to deal with those situations and shouldn't feel the urge to just forget about the mistake they just made that caused their death. Accept it, learn from it, and move on.
Former Ruling
Dying once or twice is EASILY worked off in a few minutes anyway..
If you jump to 60% DP you better be seriously looking at your build or team.
If you jump to 60% DP you better be seriously looking at your build or team.
Illusion
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Originally Posted by Former Ruling
Dying once or twice is EASILY worked off in a few minutes anyway..
If you jump to 60% DP you better be seriously looking at your build or team. |
antialias02
I don't think it's that big of a deal. You *cannot* get any more candy canes than the ones that already exist. So why exacerbate the problem by adding a merchant item that effects the same results?
The CCs are in the economy until they get filtered out by use, like it or not. I think as a temporary item, they are interesting and useful tools. But I would be very disgusted in ANet if they - or an item like them - were made a part of the game permanently.
Furthermore, this topic has been beaten to death in other threads. I hope it goes away before the Candy Canes actually do.
The CCs are in the economy until they get filtered out by use, like it or not. I think as a temporary item, they are interesting and useful tools. But I would be very disgusted in ANet if they - or an item like them - were made a part of the game permanently.
Furthermore, this topic has been beaten to death in other threads. I hope it goes away before the Candy Canes actually do.
Illusion
yea wut ever besides spiked eggnogs RULE WOOT GO SPIKED EGGNOGS
Sekkira
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Originally Posted by Illusion
dp doesnt matter as much as it does to other proffesions e.g warrior->mana killed no biggy no big change in health
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I find the whole CC craze to be hilarious. It's as if a little DP is completely crippling and it makes you wonder how they lived without it.
Illusion
lol im a warrior/monk i take dp now and then and 288 life is not wut i was missin beside superior vigor rune and mending helps besides ppl should come prepared for death if it comes
Big_Iron
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Originally Posted by Ravenglass
I don't think so at all - I actually like the idea - when I do get a DP - I usually think twice before popping a CC anyway - as a low DP can be easily worked off most of the time.
I would actually like to see the Merchant selling an equivalent item (and rare loot drops), this would then stop the absurd trading and collecting of the CC's. It is obvious many people aren't that bothered by it - as there a lots of people selling them and the prices are decreasing rapidly, as no one is buying them. I know I wont pay 500g up for one, it just isn't worth it. |
I like the idea and hope they do continue it with some sort of med kit or potion. I was thinking that the candy cane thing may even have been something of a little beta test. Just speculation on my part so don't spread the news that this was in fact a "beta test." I'm just guessing here. You could even restrict the use of a med kit or potion to once per mission or quest so people didn't over use them.
I have a "buttload" (see other thread about CC's to get the reference) of candy canes, but would only use one if my DP were above 30%. Just as Ravenglass says, most of the time you can work it off anyway. But I remember when I was new to the game and sometimes the DP would be insurmountable, like 60%. It would be all but impossible to complete the mission without starting over. That would get very frustrating at times. I also remember going on the FA mission in SF. This poor Ele in the group got up to 60%. Poor guy got to the point where if he took one hit, he was dead. And of course the AI seemed to know that and would head straight for him.
Pardoz
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Originally Posted by Lelani
Do candy canes cheapen PvE by bringing down the level of skill?
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Most quests and missions (assuming at least one party member survived/ran away from combat and didn't drop) could already be completed at 60% DP if you had the patience for it; CCs just reduce the "go, kill one monster, die, respawn, kill another monster" effect.
striderkaaru
i think candy canes are great.
the sweet yet minty flavor they provide can be enough to satiate a craving from the sweet tooth. it's a nice holiday treat.
the sweet yet minty flavor they provide can be enough to satiate a craving from the sweet tooth. it's a nice holiday treat.
Illusion
lol smart computers you see this little critter about 1/3 the hight of the ele run up to him and kill him 1 shot
Sofonisba
Oh, I’m so over the Candy Cane Controversy of 2005.
What is the big deal? NOBODY likes to die, whether they have candy canes in their inventory or not. They will do everything they can possibly do to AVOID dying.
Or is it your contention that, due to the candy cane scourge, people are beginning to play in this hypothetical manner:
Once upon a time, at the end of a long battle, the monk calls out their energy:
Monk: My energy is 2 of 40!
Elementalist: My energy is 15 of 90!
Warrior: Fret not, comrades…Let us commence with the next battle immediately. If we die, there are always the candy canes. WOOT!
Monk: Yay!
Elementalist: Yay!
‘Cause I seriously do not see that happening. Candy canes are not going to corrupt society. They are just going to, once in a while, save a potentially doomed mission/quest.
What is the big deal? NOBODY likes to die, whether they have candy canes in their inventory or not. They will do everything they can possibly do to AVOID dying.
Or is it your contention that, due to the candy cane scourge, people are beginning to play in this hypothetical manner:
Once upon a time, at the end of a long battle, the monk calls out their energy:
Monk: My energy is 2 of 40!
Elementalist: My energy is 15 of 90!
Warrior: Fret not, comrades…Let us commence with the next battle immediately. If we die, there are always the candy canes. WOOT!
Monk: Yay!
Elementalist: Yay!
‘Cause I seriously do not see that happening. Candy canes are not going to corrupt society. They are just going to, once in a while, save a potentially doomed mission/quest.
Sekkira
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Originally Posted by Illusion
lol im a warrior/monk i take dp now and then and 288 life is not wut i was missin beside superior vigor rune and mending helps besides ppl should come prepared for death if it comes
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1. There's a rule here to type in proper English. Nothing specifically grammar Nazi-ish, but at least attempt it.
2. Add 50HP to the final result I came to and you're still skewed. Mending, a health regeneration of 3 pips, 6HP per second isn't going to save you from something hitting for 50dps. Especially considering if you're down to that much, your monk either sucks or you keep stupidly charging into battles you can't win and die, in which case your monk isn't going to save you either because he's already rage quit.
Jetdoc
Sekkira - don't start this into a mending debate again...hahaha!
Seriously, I don't think Candy Canes will have a significant impact to the skill in the game. Personally, I would expect that the primary users of the candy cane will be people (like me) that solo areas, or teams that go into the UW or FoW that die frequently.
Seriously, I don't think Candy Canes will have a significant impact to the skill in the game. Personally, I would expect that the primary users of the candy cane will be people (like me) that solo areas, or teams that go into the UW or FoW that die frequently.
Malchior Devenholm
CC are ruining PvE...the skill is removed as has been mentioned, but removing a little dp im cool with that...
What makes me sick is how ppl farmed STORAGES FULL OF THEM! during the holidays, and now they're selling for 1-2k APIECE! (less if u wanna sell fast)
And the fact ppl have 4000 CC (a full storage) they aren't gonna b exhausted for a LONG TIME...
What makes me sick is how ppl farmed STORAGES FULL OF THEM! during the holidays, and now they're selling for 1-2k APIECE! (less if u wanna sell fast)
And the fact ppl have 4000 CC (a full storage) they aren't gonna b exhausted for a LONG TIME...
EternalTempest
Chapter 2 is going to deplete a lot of cc's from players how are trying to rush through vs figuring out how to complete said missions. Runners and farmes will be the bigger consumer (imho) then normal players and they will be depleting they supply of them.
I myself have 60 and plan on keeping these for rare occasions. I've not yet had to eat one. In fact I plan to not carry more then 1-2 on any new mission or quest I do.
I myself have 60 and plan on keeping these for rare occasions. I've not yet had to eat one. In fact I plan to not carry more then 1-2 on any new mission or quest I do.
generik
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Originally Posted by Malchior Devenholm
CC are ruining PvE...the skill is removed as has been mentioned, but removing a little dp im cool with that...
What makes me sick is how ppl farmed STORAGES FULL OF THEM! during the holidays, and now they're selling for 1-2k APIECE! (less if u wanna sell fast) And the fact ppl have 4000 CC (a full storage) they aren't gonna b exhausted for a LONG TIME... |
CountChoculaBot
There are enough CC's to last us well into the next Xmas =\
Lord Iowerth
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Originally Posted by Racthoh
Not a big fan of them, since it takes away from the skill involve from knowing how to work from a disadvantage. If you've hoarded stacks of candy canes, good for you. It's rather insulting to the rest of the party and yourself if you're expecting to die before you even enter wherever it is you're heading off to.
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Used in extenuating circumstances, sure they are a valuable tool. Used as a life jacket for the lack of skill in your group (or in yourself)? Awful.
I can see the buzz dying down in a few months, no big issue. I personally have about 100, which was all I cared to farm, and will probably never use all of them before something similar comes out again. I think I used a few the other day in rapid succession just to see that nifty swirl it puts around you
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Originally Posted by striderkaaru
i think candy canes are great.
the sweet yet minty flavor they provide can be enough to satiate a craving from the sweet tooth. it's a nice holiday treat. |
ManadartheHealer
If someone is dying so much in PvE they need to use the candy canes on a regular basis, just shake your head and feel sorry for them; with their level of skill, one million candy canes will get them nowhere.
On the other hand, if you're deep in FoW or UW, and you have a near party wipe, pass around the peppermint
On the other hand, if you're deep in FoW or UW, and you have a near party wipe, pass around the peppermint
VGJustice
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Originally Posted by Lelani
Do candy canes cheapen PvE by bringing down the level of skill?
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Mavrik
The game was bought by me for me and played by me. I don't give any concern to your enjoyment of the game since its not effecting mine. If someone with a candy cane is annoying you so much... wow, you all need some help. Having a candy cane is NOT making someone any less of a player or taking away any of their skills. Even the best die and I'm sure they wish there was a way to just make that DP vanish. Now there is for a limited time only. These items will be gone. Its a shame you never collected a pile and can't sell them like the rest. Whats the going rate? 500-100g a piece? The smart get rich is all i have to say. CC was a good idea. I rather like it.
/not agreed
/not agreed
Malchior Devenholm
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Originally Posted by Mavrik
Whats the going rate? 500-100g a piece?
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lord pun|shment
ive seen all the arguments against candy canes ie; "people expecting to die"
picture this, your in the middle of nowhere, sig of cap in hand, boss in sight.....then a avrica looks at your groups wammo & its on, the wammo feels challenged & needs to agro everything in sight......party dead....no fault of your own
wouldnt a candy cane proove usefull in this regard? i doubt one person could honestly say they HAVE NOT been killed by some fools agro.
I dont agree with the market value etc of Candy canes, i only collected 20 personally
thats 5 per account, i dont go into battle planning to die, but if i do, it doesnt hurt to have a "med pack"
my 2 cents.....mabey 10 cents....you do the currency conversion lol
cheers
picture this, your in the middle of nowhere, sig of cap in hand, boss in sight.....then a avrica looks at your groups wammo & its on, the wammo feels challenged & needs to agro everything in sight......party dead....no fault of your own
wouldnt a candy cane proove usefull in this regard? i doubt one person could honestly say they HAVE NOT been killed by some fools agro.
I dont agree with the market value etc of Candy canes, i only collected 20 personally
thats 5 per account, i dont go into battle planning to die, but if i do, it doesnt hurt to have a "med pack"
my 2 cents.....mabey 10 cents....you do the currency conversion lol
cheers
saphir
candy canes are so overrated lol
i'm glad i spent all my time collecting spiked eggnog and snowmen summoners
i did also collect a stack of candy canes, but not really for myself as i almost never die. i monk for uw pugs, and every so often i get sick of of ones in the party that die in one hit because they've accumulated so much dp. so, toss them a peppermint and feel sorry for them as someone else said. it also gives me a somewhat easier time to keep the tank up against a pack of aatxes, smites or mindblade degen.
however i do wish i could force feed candy canes to that suicidal alesia.
i'm glad i spent all my time collecting spiked eggnog and snowmen summoners
i did also collect a stack of candy canes, but not really for myself as i almost never die. i monk for uw pugs, and every so often i get sick of of ones in the party that die in one hit because they've accumulated so much dp. so, toss them a peppermint and feel sorry for them as someone else said. it also gives me a somewhat easier time to keep the tank up against a pack of aatxes, smites or mindblade degen.
however i do wish i could force feed candy canes to that suicidal alesia.
Willy Rockwell
The fun in GW is in fighting through a difficult mission with a good team, sharing danger and victory, risking your "life" to rescue a comrade.
Dying doesn't mean you're a noob. Monks get attacked often and can't defend themselves against a mob. When you get -40 DP the game becomes less fun and you are even more of a target because the monsters smell your weakness. All of us have debated whether to leave a good group just because our DP makes us useless.
Candy Canes bring the fun back into a mission after crippling DP is suffered. Therefore they are a good thing.
Dying doesn't mean you're a noob. Monks get attacked often and can't defend themselves against a mob. When you get -40 DP the game becomes less fun and you are even more of a target because the monsters smell your weakness. All of us have debated whether to leave a good group just because our DP makes us useless.
Candy Canes bring the fun back into a mission after crippling DP is suffered. Therefore they are a good thing.
Sekkira
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Originally Posted by lord pun|shment
picture this, your in the middle of nowhere, sig of cap in hand, boss in sight.....then a avrica looks at your groups wammo & its on, the wammo feels challenged & needs to agro everything in sight......party dead....no fault of your own
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Originally Posted by Willy Rockwell
Dying doesn't mean you're a noob. Monks get attacked often and can't defend themselves against a mob. When you get -40 DP the game becomes less fun and you are even more of a target because the monsters smell your weakness. All of us have debated whether to leave a good group just because our DP makes us useless.
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sirelricthemad
Cheapening? The only disadvantage I can see in them is... um... well nothing really. PvE wasn't overly challenging too begin with, and It jsut helps ppl enjoy the game without getting frustrated to the point of freaking out. Besides, picture this, you've spent a considerable amount of time getting thru the forgemaster missions in FoW. Favor has come and gone while you were down there so this is your last run for now. You're team has just been beaten repeatedly to the point of 45-60% DP but are somehow surviving. Normally it would be pretty damn hard to complete the misison under these circumstances and it may end with a frustrating death of the party in which all that time trying to craft your new armor is for naught. Wouldn't CC's help ease your mind a little?
And if anyone really has a problem with them, then don't use em. Simple as that.
And if anyone really has a problem with them, then don't use em. Simple as that.
Yichi
Honestly, i have like 2k of these. I saved them for my guild to use and for us only and will only use them if for the rare chance anyone is under 30% dp. Yes i know that i could go make a good chunk of change at how these things are selling, but i choose not too. If someones going to pug thunderhead or something, ill give them a couple before they go as 99% of pugs are terrible. So i have them, big deal. So ive had to use a couple on newer chars, big deal. so ive had to give a few out, big deal. they arent ruining your gameplay as youre not forced to buy them or use them. I have seen the resurgance of more rushing in wammos with candy canes. they just run in and attack, get a few killed, then ask whose got candy canes. for that reason, god i love unyielding aura.
However i DO NOT AGREE with having a merchant sellign the same thing. everyone had the chance to get a few of these if they wanted them. These would not teach anyone in the game currently about teamwork and skill and tactics. all you would see is someone rushign in thinking its ok our monk has candy canes and can heal...
However i DO NOT AGREE with having a merchant sellign the same thing. everyone had the chance to get a few of these if they wanted them. These would not teach anyone in the game currently about teamwork and skill and tactics. all you would see is someone rushign in thinking its ok our monk has candy canes and can heal...
ljohn
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Originally Posted by MistressYichi
Honestly, i have like 2k of these. I saved them for my guild to use and for us only and will only use them if for the rare chance anyone is under 30% dp. Yes i know that i could go make a good chunk of change at how these things are selling, but i choose not too. If someones going to pug thunderhead or something, ill give them a couple before they go as 99% of pugs are terrible. So i have them, big deal. So ive had to use a couple on newer chars, big deal. so ive had to give a few out, big deal. they arent ruining your gameplay as youre not forced to buy them or use them. I have seen the resurgance of more rushing in wammos with candy canes. they just run in and attack, get a few killed, then ask whose got candy canes. for that reason, god i love unyielding aura.
However i DO NOT AGREE with having a merchant sellign the same thing. everyone had the chance to get a few of these if they wanted them. These would not teach anyone in the game currently about teamwork and skill and tactics. all you would see is someone rushign in thinking its ok our monk has candy canes and can heal... |
Major dittos to all the above
Jetdoc
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Originally Posted by ljohn
My guild leader has a few of them and she hands them out to people at times when their dp is way way way low.
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wilebill
I don't need candy canes myself, so I don't care.
I do think they were an experiment by ANet to see how a DP eraser would affect PvE play. So, if you are a fan of canes, you can hope to see a scroll or something like it in the future that does the same thing.
I do think they were an experiment by ANet to see how a DP eraser would affect PvE play. So, if you are a fan of canes, you can hope to see a scroll or something like it in the future that does the same thing.
Caged Fury
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| I have seen the resurgance of more rushing in wammos with candy canes. they just run in and attack, get a few killed, then ask whose got candy canes. |
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| However i DO NOT AGREE with having a merchant sellign the same thing. everyone had the chance to get a few of these if they wanted them. These would not teach anyone in the game currently about teamwork and skill and tactics. all you would see is someone rushign in thinking its ok our monk has candy canes and can heal... |
I've been in pugs where there were players constantly rushing in and getting killed. Only after they had accumulated a high DP then they were willing to ease off and listen to others. If they had candies then I guess they would have, more-than-likey, continued rushing in and dying.
OP: I don't think it is the case that the candy canes themselves that would reduce the skills of players, they just provide the opportunity for it to happen. Some players are responsible to use them in specific, dire situations whereas others may not be so responsible and use them freely without a thought to why they died in the first place. I have a hundred or so candies and I haven't use one yet even when I had over 30% DP. I'd rather reflect on how I got that DP and think about how I could proceed with that disadvantage.
Sai of Winter
Umm...what's the big deal? They are just candy canes. If someone wants to use the candy canes, then let those people use them. It's their choice, not anyone else's. It's their style of gameplay and no one should force them to not use the candy canes because another person wants to play their way. They are handy if you have a DP of 45%-60%. Mavrik is right even very skilled and strategic players/groups can get a high DP, it happens if you been in the game for a long time. Also, they'll be gone soon when everyone use them all up.
I don't get why players get annoyed with others for using candy canes. Mind boggling...@_@
^^Agree
I don't get why players get annoyed with others for using candy canes. Mind boggling...@_@
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Originally Posted by Mavrik
If someone with a candy cane is annoying you so much... wow, you all need some help.
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Originally Posted by sirelricthemad
And if anyone really has a problem with them, then don't use em. Simple as that.
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Xenrath
Actually there is one very valid time to be annoyed at them (and it happened to me once)
If you or others die, say in FoW or UW, then some selfish jerk decides to throw the idea of "teamplay" out the window and starts offering to sell the bloody things... trade in towns, fine but don't add insult to injury trying to profit off others' misfortunes during a party trip!
If you or others die, say in FoW or UW, then some selfish jerk decides to throw the idea of "teamplay" out the window and starts offering to sell the bloody things... trade in towns, fine but don't add insult to injury trying to profit off others' misfortunes during a party trip!
The Acolyte
I find this extremely amusing. I'm just curious how many of the people in here farm using the "hold item" exploit? Yet, the same people call candy canes "cheap" pve play. Hypocricy at it's best...
Candy canes are fun to use in the right circumstaces, and imho worth it to buy them (don't PM me trying to sell plz...I already have a couple stacks). I've found them extremely useful in learning the best pathing for solo 55 monk runs for IDS's. I do NOT find them useful for general team pve play, unless I'm with friends in UW/FoW and someone makes a stupid mistake that almost wipes out the group.
If people want to bitch about something that is "cheapening pve," please join/comment on a thread I posted a while ago about the "holding the item" exploit needing to be removed. Now THAT type of gameplay is cheapening pve...
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=86035
Candy canes are fun to use in the right circumstaces, and imho worth it to buy them (don't PM me trying to sell plz...I already have a couple stacks). I've found them extremely useful in learning the best pathing for solo 55 monk runs for IDS's. I do NOT find them useful for general team pve play, unless I'm with friends in UW/FoW and someone makes a stupid mistake that almost wipes out the group.
If people want to bitch about something that is "cheapening pve," please join/comment on a thread I posted a while ago about the "holding the item" exploit needing to be removed. Now THAT type of gameplay is cheapening pve...
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=86035
Zehnchu
If candy canes take away skill then runes and scrolls also do the same. Yet I am sure everyone uses runes and scrolls. Before the candy cane the best way to get rid of DP was to use a scroll especially in high level areas. And how are they going to increase farming? If the people who farm die they go back to town and back out again as opposed to spawning using a candy cane and going back. I really don’t see much of a difference. I think merchants should sell an item with the affect of removing DP.