I left WoW to come to guildwars because I was led to believe there would not be a grind. I have gone through the game and find myself wishing for the beta days when you could just unlock the skills and compete in pvp. First and foremost you should not make the pvp players suffer through the grind. If I want to make a character to tomb or gvg with I should be able to make whatever I want with whatever skills I want. I am now "stuck" with a level 20 warrior/mes to tomb with. Yes I could start a new character but to be honest I can't bring myself to get out of pre sear. I think the optimal setup would be similar to the BWE setup.
1 roleplay character is all it takes to unlock weapons, items, and runes. The pvp characters have every spell and armor set available but need the rp characters to unlock the various weapon hafts and runes. This promotes both pvp and pve but doesn't give either a advantage.
I agree with the grind thread
NiknudStunod
chpmmttn
Can't you change the secondary profession once you reach 20? I thought I read that somewhere.
Doesn't that mean you only need one PvE character to unlock all the skills?
Doesn't that mean you only need one PvE character to unlock all the skills?
Jana
You could do the quests to change your secondary to all the other professions and complete those specific quests and unlock those skills 
. At lvl 20, most profession quests are a few seconds of time to complete. Then you would have them all.
Always, gimme, gimme.
Jana
. At lvl 20, most profession quests are a few seconds of time to complete. Then you would have them all.Always, gimme, gimme.
Jana
Kordesh
I find if baffling that anything but having the whole game handed to you out of the box is considered a horrible, dreaded, evil, "GRIND!"
C-Tzar
If playing through the whole game without EVER, even once, stopping to farm any mobs for cash/XP is grinding, then I'm all for the grind! 
Master Elyas
grinding is fine... you're not out to beat GW in a weekend... the game is supposed to last for a long time, and for the people who dont want to do that, then go play another game.
nechronius
It takes hundreds of hours to get 25% better than someone who has only invested 100 hours?
What, and this is such a bad thing?
Alright so someone with a full Time life will never really dominate some high school kid or college guy with failing grades. Isn't that the way it always works?
What, and this is such a bad thing?
Alright so someone with a full Time life will never really dominate some high school kid or college guy with failing grades. Isn't that the way it always works?
Kordesh
Don't take statistcs from that thread. 25% and 100s of hours=false
Tyveil
Sorry, I don't agree with you... and I hope it is never changed. It would diminish the rewards for people who actually enjoy the PvE part of the game. A.Net threw the PvE people a bone, this game is still decidedly focused on PvP play. Don't take this one thing away.
nechronius
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Originally Posted by Kordesh
Don't take statistcs from that thread. 25% and 100s of hours=false
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Quarantine
i honestly dont understand how people buy a game like this and dont expect there to be a certain item/adventure reward benefit
if you want a game that puts everyone on completely equal footing and lets them duel it out then play Quake
or if its customizing your char you want, try Tribes or something similar where you have to choose a class and then weapons based on your preference but also team needs then go fight it out
but to come into a game that was always known to have an RP/PvE element from the very start and not expect that there would be some loot benefit or pve accomplishment buff is just ignorant, im sorry if thats harsh but its true
if you want a game that puts everyone on completely equal footing and lets them duel it out then play Quake
or if its customizing your char you want, try Tribes or something similar where you have to choose a class and then weapons based on your preference but also team needs then go fight it out
but to come into a game that was always known to have an RP/PvE element from the very start and not expect that there would be some loot benefit or pve accomplishment buff is just ignorant, im sorry if thats harsh but its true
NiknudStunod
I don't understand why everyone is against this suggestion. The PvE grind should in all reguard be a secondary aspect of this game. The games name is guild wars which I assume is suppose to be about pvp battles. I don't mind the first grind but making me do it again and again just to unlock skills is just silly. This game is a great game but the grind is just as boring as in mmorpgs.
I don't understand how you can say anet through pve players a bone. If anet gave pvpers the ability to unlock there skills for pvp characters it would in no way effect the pve world at all.
I don't understand how you can say anet through pve players a bone. If anet gave pvpers the ability to unlock there skills for pvp characters it would in no way effect the pve world at all.
NiknudStunod
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Originally Posted by Quarantine
i honestly dont understand how people buy a game like this and dont expect there to be a certain item/adventure reward benefit
if you want a game that puts everyone on completely equal footing and lets them duel it out then play Quake or if its customizing your char you want, try Tribes or something similar where you have to choose a class and then weapons based on your preference but also team needs then go fight it out but to come into a game that was always known to have an RP/PvE element from the very start and not expect that there would be some loot benefit or pve accomplishment buff is just ignorant, im sorry if thats harsh but its true |
Studio Ghibli
I don't really think it's fair to suggest -this- is Grind, compartively speaking.
While I'll admit I was a little dissapointed at first that I wasn't able to secure a bunch of skills, my dissapointment was tempered by the fact that, hey, if I was given everything at once, what fun would that be?
I enjoy the exploration. I enjoy the quests. I enjoy the missions.
Use a pre-built if you don't have the time.
- edit -
Correct. This is like M:tG.
What use is it if everyone has instant access to the best cards though?
While I'll admit I was a little dissapointed at first that I wasn't able to secure a bunch of skills, my dissapointment was tempered by the fact that, hey, if I was given everything at once, what fun would that be?
I enjoy the exploration. I enjoy the quests. I enjoy the missions.
Use a pre-built if you don't have the time.
- edit -
Correct. This is like M:tG.
What use is it if everyone has instant access to the best cards though?
NiknudStunod
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Studio Ghibli
I don't really think it's fair to suggest -this- is Grind, compartively speaking.
While I'll admit I was a little dissapointed at first that I wasn't able to secure a bunch of skills, my dissapointment was tempered by the fact that, hey, if I was given everything at once, what fun would that be? I enjoy the exploration. I enjoy the quests. I enjoy the missions. Use a pre-built if you don't have the time. - edit - Correct. This is like M:tG. What use is it if everyone has instant access to the best cards though? |
Studio Ghibli
.. well, switch your secondary then (at level 20, and with a warrior, shouldn't be too hard), and then visit skill trainers as--as far as I can tell--skill trainers sell the skills you missed in previous quests.
Mountain Man
It's funny, what some people call "grind", I call "gameplay".
Deagol
I think making *two* changes would saisfy both camps
1. Bring back the "unlock all skills (and items)" button.
2. Create special tournaments for only RP characters.
The current solution go against the stated goal, to have Guild War a game you play to have fun, rather than a game you play to prepare to have fun, at least for PvP players.
The competitive missions reserved for RP characters would be so *we* can compete with people on equal terms, i.e. people who have build their characters themselves.
The PvP missions should still be open to RP characters, because why not?
1. Bring back the "unlock all skills (and items)" button.
2. Create special tournaments for only RP characters.
The current solution go against the stated goal, to have Guild War a game you play to have fun, rather than a game you play to prepare to have fun, at least for PvP players.
The competitive missions reserved for RP characters would be so *we* can compete with people on equal terms, i.e. people who have build their characters themselves.
The PvP missions should still be open to RP characters, because why not?
NiknudStunod
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Mountain Man
It's funny, what some people call "grind", I call "gameplay".
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Studio Ghibli
.. then.. don't go through the game again. 
Switch your secondary class and visit the skill trainers.
You can do it as many times as you'd like.
In fact, once you complete the "switch to X class" quest, you can switch back and forth and back and forth..
Switch your secondary class and visit the skill trainers.
You can do it as many times as you'd like.
In fact, once you complete the "switch to X class" quest, you can switch back and forth and back and forth..
chpmmttn
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Studio Ghibli
.. then.. don't go through the game again.
Switch your secondary class and visit the skill trainers. You can do it as many times as you'd like. In fact, once you complete the "switch to X class" quest, you can switch back and forth and back and forth.. |
Kordesh
In comparison, GW is not even REMOTELY close to a grind. Not even close. Drop the FPS mindset of having EVERYTHING handed to you the second you drop into the game. Oh noes, I must come in contact with an NPC when I enter an RPG. OMG I R GRINDING CAREBARE. I'm sorry, I like PvP, but people like that annoy the shit out of me.
Akshara
You know, at first I was bummed to learn that one had to go through PvE to lvl 20 to unlock the skills for PvP. I too presumed that I'd be able to create a well designed PvP character fairly quickly. For me, the pre-designed choices just weren't that great. I tried a couple anyway... and discovered I was completely lost with how to handle the characters.
So I went into PvE, and began doing the supposed "grind" to create a character for PvP. And then amazingly enough, I began to enjoy it. I also recognized how PvE would make it so by the time my character was ready, I would know how to handle it really well. The whole thing started to make sense...
The side effect is that I don't play PvP as much as I'd orignally intended to. But I know that when I do, even if it is with a pre-designed character, that I'll be a much better asset to any team because of it.
One man's grind is another man's opportunity.
So I went into PvE, and began doing the supposed "grind" to create a character for PvP. And then amazingly enough, I began to enjoy it. I also recognized how PvE would make it so by the time my character was ready, I would know how to handle it really well. The whole thing started to make sense...
The side effect is that I don't play PvP as much as I'd orignally intended to. But I know that when I do, even if it is with a pre-designed character, that I'll be a much better asset to any team because of it.
One man's grind is another man's opportunity.
Sam Katha
All I know is if ArenaNet is going to make a change to address this I wouldn't want to be the one that has to make it. No matter what they change they are going to get blasted by both sides in this argument.
Eet GnomeSmasher
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Mimu
Fine..then at least keep it to one topic..
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evil.E
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Kordesh
In comparison, GW is not even REMOTELY close to a grind. Not even close. Drop the FPS mindset of having EVERYTHING handed to you the second you drop into the game. Oh noes, I must come in contact with an NPC when I enter an RPG. OMG I R GRINDING CAREBARE. I'm sorry, I like PvP, but people like that annoy the shit out of me.
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I played SWG for a long time and that my friends is a grind. That's all that game had to offer was one long boring grind after another. By comparison GW is not even close to a grind. So what if you don't have 50 runes. I've had the game since release and haven't even finished the PVE portion of this game (Not even close BTW). Why? because I've been too busy having fun PVP'ing to care. I could care less that I don't have all t3h ub3r l33t crap. That stuff may help but to me that just leads to a false sense of invincibility. Which in turn leads to being one of the first ones dead in the HoH.
My philosophy has always been to learn to win without the ub3r stuff first. That'll actually teach you how to play instead of always relying on your gear to win.
TalonSlayer
I played EQ and SWG. Calling Guild Wars a "grind" is a joke.
dorn
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Originally Posted by Soul Monarch
Because this is an opinion issue, you are neither right nor wrong. Either way, you aren't going to get this one particular thing in the game changed, because there is too much invested into it.
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Which then of course will prompt people to argue against such proposed changes if they like the current system. Until GW gets there own forums though closing the threads probably won't do much good because likely a lot of people just signed up to the forum to complain about something in the only place they feel is visible to the GW team.
To be honest I've been seriously suprised GW hasn't gotten their own forums yet specifically because of this.
Studio Ghibli
I think the reason we have Skill Points like that is to discourage people from changing them repeatedly during Missions or PvP events. Otherwise, you'd have people abusing it.
It's more a preventative measure and less an intended grind.
It's more a preventative measure and less an intended grind.
Studio Ghibli
Oh--woops.
How do skill points = grind?
How do skill points = grind?
Bone_White_Haze
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Originally Posted by Blackace
I'm waiting for someone to actually pay attention to the game and look at skill points and try to tell me there is no grind in GW.
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Sam Katha
This argument will eventually solve itself. Everything only needs to be unlocked once. As time goes by and people unlock more and more things, they will no longer have a reason to complain. My advice, wait this one out.
BE|Dac
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Blackace
That wont happen in GW. The drop rate of superiors and certain mods are way too low for that to happen.
Because you dont have enough of them to buy every skill and capture every skill possible. So the best thing to do is get skills through questing since they dont cost skill points. But you can only do that so many times before you must use SP. Once you run out, you just have to repeatedly level up for a SP on level 20. The argument doesn't solely revolve around how long it takes to unlock things. It's about keeping a level playing field and right now whoever farms the longest has much more power. New players or people just casually browsing through PvE just wont have a chance vs people farming their eyes out. |
Barkam
I am with Blackace and Dac on this one. Something needs to be done. My whole guild is dissapointed about this atm. I spent a whole day just to unlock that much coveted superior rune, and I know that's just the beginning.
Studio Ghibli
Don't really know what to say.
Anything you can do to this ruins it.
You remove the item altogether, or make the items so common that the bonus is worthless anyway.
Anything you can do to this ruins it.
You remove the item altogether, or make the items so common that the bonus is worthless anyway.
chalt2
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Blackace
The argument doesn't solely revolve around how long it takes to unlock things. It's about keeping a level playing field and right now whoever farms the longest has much more power.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Blackace
New players or people just casually browsing through PvE just wont have a chance vs people farming their eyes out.
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Again the bottom line is the game is TWO WEEKS old can't it have a chance to fulfill what potential it might have for the long haul?
Is it really necessary to stomp up and down that it hasn't turned out the way that your pre-conceived hopeful idea of a 100 hour game mastery schedule should have gone.
I really don't think the Devs sat down and said well lets see if we can create a game that can be mastered in 100 hours or less and then preceded to create it to that purpose.
Soul Monarch
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Barkam
I am with Blackace and Dac on this one. Something needs to be done.
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I don't necessarily agree that anything should be done, though. Heck, it's impossible to even tell how many people truly want it changed. Are we hearing from a vocal minority here? Or are there thousands of people out there who aren't on any forums that want this changed too? I'm really not sure that question can be answered.
Shadow_Avenger
Grinding?????
What Grinding???
Played many other RPG and MMORPG and lvling is a hell of a lot slower.
I play the game for the RPG not the PvP. The PvP is balanced and is fun, but it is seperate from the main RPG.
Unlocking Skills a grind??? I find that a challage and a good reason to explore the rich world that has been created.
Do I play PvP, yes occationally, do I enjoy it, yes. Am I rubbish at it. No, I have been in more winning teams than losing ones. The longest was a streak of 7 wins with 4 flawless. The group didn't have a monk either.
If all I wanted was to beat people up I'd play Tekken.
As for grind, what Grind, you can get to level 20 just from doing the quests, infact you dont even have to do all the quests to max out.
The rest is about finding stuff and that is actually a major attraction for the majority of players of this type of game.
Repeat again.
If all you want to do beat people up then play Tekken.
What Grinding???
Played many other RPG and MMORPG and lvling is a hell of a lot slower.
I play the game for the RPG not the PvP. The PvP is balanced and is fun, but it is seperate from the main RPG.
Unlocking Skills a grind??? I find that a challage and a good reason to explore the rich world that has been created.
Do I play PvP, yes occationally, do I enjoy it, yes. Am I rubbish at it. No, I have been in more winning teams than losing ones. The longest was a streak of 7 wins with 4 flawless. The group didn't have a monk either.
If all I wanted was to beat people up I'd play Tekken.
As for grind, what Grind, you can get to level 20 just from doing the quests, infact you dont even have to do all the quests to max out.
The rest is about finding stuff and that is actually a major attraction for the majority of players of this type of game.
Repeat again.
If all you want to do beat people up then play Tekken.
TheZoologist
The problem here is that the devs have backed themselves into a corner. They are trying to create relevance for the PvE element that doesn't exist right now. Let's face it: the story is crap. Very few people would be motivated to progress through the story for the sake of the story itself.
With no story-based goal, the only goal left to base progression on in the PvE element is the accumulation of benefits, i.e. character-building. The game is advertised as an RPG, even if an unconvential one, but this leads to immediate conflict with the claim of a completely level playing field for all players. A level playing field from start to finish would require all players to have immediate access to fully built characters, but eliminating character building ends any connection to the role-playing genre.
Sure, it's fun to explore the environment, especially with groups of friends, but this could be done by characters who are all at the same level and have access to the same skills. What would be missing? Any sense of accomplishment or progress. For good or bad, the game would not be an RPG in any sense of the word.
With no story-based goal, the only goal left to base progression on in the PvE element is the accumulation of benefits, i.e. character-building. The game is advertised as an RPG, even if an unconvential one, but this leads to immediate conflict with the claim of a completely level playing field for all players. A level playing field from start to finish would require all players to have immediate access to fully built characters, but eliminating character building ends any connection to the role-playing genre.
Sure, it's fun to explore the environment, especially with groups of friends, but this could be done by characters who are all at the same level and have access to the same skills. What would be missing? Any sense of accomplishment or progress. For good or bad, the game would not be an RPG in any sense of the word.
Norbix
For all of you whining about grinding for items, you're wrong. You farm for items, and ArenaNet never said anything about farming now did they? ArenaNet is still correct in saying there is no Grind in this game, so... hush up and whine about farming.