Assassins overpowered?

Empirism

Empirism

Academy Page

Join Date: Apr 2005

good posts there, when i was playing with monk in random arena I notice thing Laserlight mentioned before, i got 2 assassins and offensive ritualist and dun remember what 4th was, I almost fell asleep, with my monk there still not been any assassins that can take me down (i know, cuz they cant play them well yet with insufficient skills and runes)

but anyway I agree to fact that none can say bout overpowered skills or some yet, it takes time and this weekend is not enough to find them out.

Defender Of Orth

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2005

Eternal Knights

W/Mo

I would just like to say, there very easy to take down, they cant take a blow at all, and armor pentatrating attack brings them down hard

Keyote

Keyote

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2005

If you're having problems with assassins I'd say the problem is you. They're too easy to kill and none of the ones I've seen are effective at anything but running away.

Plague

Plague

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2005

N/E

I actually have found the Assassin so far to be underwhelming. Your skillbar ends up built around a select few combinations of skills that have basically been pre-made to work a certain way, so your creativity seems to be limited somewhat.

In addition to that, your skillbar is also spike-damage oriented. If your string of attacks can't counter an opponent or overwhelm them the first time, you're basically screwed due to recharge times.

At least with a warrior you still have a certain amount of versatility in being able to carry whatever you want without being concerned about lead-offs.

ange1

ange1

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2005

Mo/

the reason they easy to kill because most of them are premade assasins, with no unlocked skills .

BBoy_Manchild

BBoy_Manchild

Banned

Join Date: Aug 2005

dayton ohio

N/Mo

at no point in this weekend will assassins be good, i have yet to see an assassin that could kill me without help from his other teammates (by that i mean the teammates do all the work :P) one miss from the attack skill chain and the assassin is useless

glountz

glountz

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Nov 2005

W/Mo

I played with my regular ole whammo and I surprinsingly had not such problems with assassins.
The premades in my thoughts are weak.
Some hard-hitted me with their condition chain (even with temple strike) but as I had condition removal and hard armor against physical so that didn't hurted much. I was running an axe warrior and using disrupting chop in the middle of their chain was really annoying for them.
Runners were more a problem.

Ritualists seemed really powerful. At the beginning.
When I understood that it was easier to kill their spirits instead of killing them I knew more how to handle them.
Even with high health spirits, you can kill one far before the Ritualist's spirit skill is recharged.
If you clean the zone from the ritualists' spirits, not only theirs non-spirit skills are very less powerful (because most of them reveal their potential with the presence of one or more spirit), but they can't do anything but to wait that their spirit skills recharge.
I think ritualists should really bring +recharging skill if they plan to be spirit skill heavy, because when the spirit they just took 6 sec to cast is destroyed in 3 sec and has 30 sec recharge, it's really annoying.


And in the worst case you can flee the zone if really spirit-full.


I played both an assassin and a ritualist.
I developped more the assassin. I used a A/W and tried to unlock their main skills.
Their skill chains are problematic for two reasons: 1)interrupts/evade/blocks/blind will reduce them to nothing.
2)A chain attack terribly fill your skill bar, so you are left with few things for: hexing ennemies, evade stances, anti-evade stance, self heal, anticonditions,run skills, rez signet etc....
To be effective I ended using two or three attack skills at most, because the more you brought the more you have odds to never finish a chain,and to waste a skill slot for a "maybe" attack instead of a skill which will make sure your simple 1-2 chain strike.

The assassin is not under/overpowered, I found them surprinsingly balanced. I was owned by many eles and mesmers, I owned many of them when they didn't bring physical defenses, as well as I owned overconfident warriors and was owned by clever ones.
I used my unlocked warriors skill to bring wild blow and frenzy along my assassins skill. I used frenzy + evading enchants (not stances-this is really powerful as you can cumulate) + wild blow (to avoid evades as well as a critical and on the top of that I don't care about adrenalin and I don't have to spend points in any of the warrior attribute) to max damage and be sure to land quickly an attack chain before the target could react.
Assassins have real potential. But are counterable as any class of the game.

A-net, you really did a good job.

drowningfish999

drowningfish999

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

Awakened Tempest [aT]

From what I see, the only reason the assasssin might be viewed as overpowered is because there isn't any experience with him yet. People don't know his weaknesses and strengths as well as the other 6 classes.

Theus

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

W/Mo

All I know is, I brutally murdered A/W's who cast Mirrored Stance on me while I had full adrenaline and Frenzy.

Esrever

Esrever

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2005

Looking For Guild

Heh, I'm going to have to try that.

Mavrik

Mavrik

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2005

Alaska

well I guess I can stop counting down until the first nerf cries ran out... geez...

MarkyX

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Lozza
The point of the assassin is to take down early targets quickly, and they are most effective (obviously) against those with poor armour - like casters. Once they have used their initial chain, they are near useless till skills and energy recharge. Over-powered? No.
You mean that is the point of DAGGER mastery.

I'm using sword mastery because I like the 4 pips of eng and using pure strike and seeking blade.

So far, I'm like a warrior that can cripple AOE, heal myself, dodge, and run fast. Not too shabby.

The dagger mastery is indeed dangerous, if the other team is not prepared. But that isn't the entire point of an assassin.

Arcador

Arcador

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2005

--

R/N

Critical strike atribute works on different weapons - try it out. A/W with axe can deliver a big punch.

firestar314

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jan 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mysterial
Also note that we didn't get to see the other 150 skills that the current professions are getting, which probably include at least a few direct counters to the new professions.
Huh? Current proffesions are getting new skills?

Solais

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jun 2005

The Orrian Triad [Orr]

R/Me

So far, I think the assassins are very balanced. I've gotta agree with everyone here, as all of my damage with the assassin so far has been spike oriented with the combo. A lot of their skills are interesting, and it does take a bit more reading to put some things together... but the shadow skills when other classes get their hands on them will be a problem. I can see it now, casters with Shadow Refuge... *sighs*

One thing I've worked on is using smaller chains over all, or having multiple options to start chains (i.e. Having an off hand attack which follows a lead attack, as well as another off hand attack which can attack hexed victims so that the dual attack has multiple opporutunities to be used for less skill bar space). This makes you not as useless because the refresh times on most of the chain moves isn't too bad, and you're also not having to wait for one special moment where everything is perfectly aligned for you to perform your chain.

I really want to dig deeper into the deadly arts and shadow arts, so I should probably get back to grinding.

Energy denial's owned me some times, evasion/blocking stances also. I'm happy they do have a few tricks up their sleeve to sneak up on folks though.

Dead Panda

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2005

N/Me

Ironically, about 90% of every assasin build out there ran the same jungle strike to mobius gimmick. It's not the fact that the assasin is underpowered, its the people who play it.

The majority of every assasin player out there has the mindset of that of a warrior it seems. I think the assasin plays the melee role of a ranger, only to strike in when an oppurtunity presents itself. not to run in, flailing weapons every which way.

I've seen it way too many times. An assasin shadow step, and jumping the gun. =x

Kool Pajamas

Kool Pajamas

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2005

Maryland

Mage Elites [MAGE]

Quote:
Originally Posted by firestar314
Huh? Current proffesions are getting new skills?
Yes.

I wish they would have put some of those in. Maybe they will in the next pre-event, or whatever they're going to do.

zakaria

zakaria

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jan 2006

back to the question of "assassins overpowered ?"
my awnser is yes...ppl wasn't play with him properly because it was first time they use his skills and it was very easy to kill anyone of them with my ele..but yesterday it seems that they know to play with him and in my opinion this prof. is soo way overpowered.
you were talking all about interrupt their combos..and he become useless,as i saw yesterday his combos doesn't take more than 3 or 4 sec to apply on you the 5 conditions (i didn't play with him yet but that's what i saw in pvp)..if you have 2 or 3 assassins foes in 8 player team and you didn't decide which one you are gonna kill or use your shut down mesmer in your team in first 2 or 3 secs in the first of the match..i 'm sure to you that at least 2 of your team will kiss the dirt of the arena

mavis

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Jan 2006

You know whats fun?

Me and a friend have been running an awsome N/Me build in TA for the past couple of days. It helps that 90% of people are running assasin, warrior or rangers.

Enfeeble
Spiteful Spirit
Insidious Parasite
Empathy
Spirit Shackles
Blackout
Blood Ritual
Res Signet


We just pick a seperate target, pile on the hexes and wait for the idiots to kill themselves. You would be suprised with how many totally ignore it.

Plague

Plague

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2005

N/E

Although I think it's fairly obvious that Shadow Stepping is somewhat made to circumvent runners while still allowing for rapid movement in actual combat, I can think of a few choice uses for any skills like Shadow Step. Run past a group, aggro them, lead them off, then teleport back safely and just walk past them as they stand there, confused. Good fun.

Cologne

Cologne

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jan 2006

Mo/W

I have a wireless adapter as my internet source, so I disconnected a few times (actually, a LOT) while I was trying to load up my Ritualist or my Assassin. I must say, I love each equally.

Assassin: I do agree strongly with the statements above about the whole "blind" problem and "energy denial" problem. Think about it: Area Net has had to nerf so much in Guild Wars due to it being so-called "overpowered".
I have no doubts that as A-Net was coming up with the Assassin, they put something in there that made it not-invincible. Sure, it is a REALLY good class (I just love it, hands-down), but every class has to have it's downfall, and the whole point of the PvP element of Guild Wars, IMO, is to develop a team that plays to enemy weaknesses. (Warriors have SS / Empathy, Monks have Mesmers and the interrupts of the Rangers... etc.) Now RITUALIST is an overpowered character.

Ritualist: Let's take a look at the oh-so-famous Ritualist. I don't see a downfall to the ritualist, really. I mean, Minion Master Necros need corpses to summon helping "killers" into the battlefield. Ritualist can summon a spirit anywhere it wants, and doesn't need any corpses, and with that energy management spell in the pre-build... think about it. It is like, guaranteed it will probably be nerfed by A-Net somehow... I can just imagine tombs, Team Arenas: "Spirit Spike Ritualist Team". All you need is 3 spirit casters, and one healer, and there you have it, the ultimate MF of sorts, although this one requires no deaths, thus no mesmer, thus no heal area monks, thus no MM's. Just like, 5-6 spirit Ritualists and 3-2 Healers (in Tombs).

Lady Lozza

Lady Lozza

Forge Runner

Join Date: Dec 2005

Oz

Angel Sharks

Me/N

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcador
Critical strike atribute works on different weapons - try it out. A/W with axe can deliver a big punch.
Really, I hadn't noticed that, since I simply used the weapons on offer. I wonder if they are going to change that...

MarkyX - With assassin as an INDIVIDUAL profession, yes that is the point. Anything you choose to do and make of it (in combination with another prof) is your choice.

Reks

Reks

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2005

R/P

I've had my fair share of wins and losses in Random with my A/R, and I'm still not sure if they're overpowered or not. For one thing, if my targets don't get support healing, they die. I've taken down several spellcasters without any help from teammates. Temple Strike just completely ruins them. Of course I can duel the warriors, but it's 50/50.

Now, downsides. Blind completely shut me down. Empathy I've only encountered once or twice. But I'm not dumb enough to attack through it. Sprit Shackles haven't run into yet. Evasion stances(those darn R/As and their Escape, Lightning Reflexes and Whirling Defense). The sad part is I think Rangers make better Assassins because of that... That and their expertise... =/ I could use Wild Strike, but what's the point if the lead attack doesn't hit?

As for ritualists, bah. Spirit spammers. Unfortunately I'm usually the only one on my team attacking their spirits. But if you get two Rt/Mos on the opposite team... or two Rt/Mes...

Ventius Hozza

Ventius Hozza

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2005

London, UK

Powerpuff Boys [PUFF]

R/

We are talking about in CA here right? Well they are pretty useless in CA i have found as all last night i was on my empath dom mesmer taking down assassins and monks alike. However in 8v8 they become a whole different thing

Lady Lozza

Lady Lozza

Forge Runner

Join Date: Dec 2005

Oz

Angel Sharks

Me/N

I think the problem is at the moment in RA players do not really have to act like a team to win, in 8v8 that is a whole different matter. Assassins and Ritualist will find their place, but it probably going to take more than a PvP weekend to get there.

S H I N O B I

S H I N O B I

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2005

PSC

R/W

Quote:
Originally Posted by Theus
All I know is, I brutally murdered A/W's who cast Mirrored Stance on me while I had full adrenaline and Frenzy.
I had that happen to my A/W pre-made recently... but the result was the other way around. The frenzy made the warrior even more fragile and died with all the conditions and raw dmg i put on him even before my Shadow Refuge Ended...

Kai Nui

Kai Nui

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2005

Behind you with a knife

Celebrity Gangsters [FamE]

Me/

They are overpowered. People have the ability to win with them with just a f'n template for crying out loud, and people are losing to this character with only less than ONE DAY OF EXPERIENCE with it. Just think of how laughably powerful it'll be once people get good at it and know the best secondary for it or whatever combo to go along with it. Definitely going to have a lot of nerfs come out soon...

Kai Nui

Kai Nui

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2005

Behind you with a knife

Celebrity Gangsters [FamE]

Me/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cologne


Ritualist:I mean, Minion Master Necros need corpses to summon helping "killers" into the battlefield. Ritualist can summon a spirit anywhere it wants, and doesn't need any corpses, and with that energy management spell in the pre-build... think about it. It is like, guaranteed it will probably be nerfed by A-Net somehow...
It was nerfed when people did Spirit Spams. You can't create more than one of one type of spirit in the area without killing the other one there. You can only have one type of a spirit in an area at once, sorry to say. Necromancers on the other hand can still make multiple minions.

Lady Lozza

Lady Lozza

Forge Runner

Join Date: Dec 2005

Oz

Angel Sharks

Me/N

Um... I've won stacks of times with templates, of all professions. That doesn't make them overpowered.
I've also been kill (and killed) the A/W build a stack of times over the weekend.

Denny Pace

Denny Pace

Academy Page

Join Date: Jul 2005

Good Eye Sniper [GeS]

Just throwing my two cents into the fray, I didn't find either the Assassin or Ritualist to be overpowered over the course of my 12 hours or so of gameplay as and against them. I actually found the Ritualist to be more of a pain in the butt than the Assassin so far. When played well, a Ritualist can actually help push the opposing team back to a more favorable fighting position, due to the interrupting and restorative spirits. The Assassin, in contrast, is more of a single-target pain in the butt. It's a relatively soft target, but I can see the combination of R/A or A/R as a formidable runner/sniper.

Liking this update....

Cologne

Cologne

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jan 2006

Mo/W

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kai Nui
It was nerfed when people did Spirit Spams. You can't create more than one of one type of spirit in the area without killing the other one there. You can only have one type of a spirit in an area at once, sorry to say. Necromancers on the other hand can still make multiple minions.
Why am I not surprised...

Rikimaru

Rikimaru

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Dec 2005

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cologne

Ritualist: Let's take a look at the oh-so-famous Ritualist. I don't see a downfall to the ritualist, really. I mean, Minion Master Necros need corpses to summon helping "killers" into the battlefield. Ritualist can summon a spirit anywhere it wants, and doesn't need any corpses, and with that energy management spell in the pre-build... think about it. It is like, guaranteed it will probably be nerfed by A-Net somehow... I can just imagine tombs, Team Arenas: "Spirit Spike Ritualist Team". All you need is 3 spirit casters, and one healer, and there you have it, the ultimate MF of sorts, although this one requires no deaths, thus no mesmer, thus no heal area monks, thus no MM's. Just like, 5-6 spirit Ritualists and 3-2 Healers (in Tombs).
I think (though I havent tried it) that the ritualists have a pretty simple counter; they can't move their spirits, and if the spirits die, they are nearly screwed for a while. So all you have to do is take a fire ele and blast the hell out of that stationary asses with AoE's.

Empirism

Empirism

Academy Page

Join Date: Apr 2005

well, i think assassins are not overpowered in general, but there need some tweaking, blinds and such can take them down, but there can be a "hit and run" style with way of the lotus+black mantis and temple strike, if that hits, with team who follow calls, monk cant do nothing and ts recharge in 12 seconds.

lets wonder 4vs4 situation where there are equally monks in both team, another without assassin with daze combo and another with it. for win I put my money for that team who have.

pigdestroyer

pigdestroyer

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2006

Los Chavos Del [ocho]

W/

mm not really, my blood spiker can kill assassins in matter of seconds.. its funny to see them run though

PieXags

PieXags

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2005

The Infinite Representation Of Pie And Its Many Brilliances

As a whole, I do not think assassins are overpowered. After reviewing them for a while I've come to one problem skill I think is pretty severly overpowered.

Temple Strike

It's an assassin elite skill that after following a single strike (a lead attack) interrupts, DAZES, and blinds an opponent for a set time. It only costs ten energy, and has only a twelve second recharge.

What the HELL is this? This is the skill I keep coming to. If I get killed by an assassin it's always because of this skill, no others. I don't give a damn if they hit me with an entire 4 line combo, I can take the damage, I can withstand the onslaught of normal attacks with the proper skillset, but this skill seems overpowered to me. Mainly because of the dazed condition it so easily spreads around.

Think about it---rangers and warriors can daze as well, rangers have concussion shot and warriors have skull crack. However, BOTH of these either have very high adrenaline or energy cost. For rangers it's 25 energy, for warriors it's 9 adrenaline. And BOTH skills require you to interrupt an enemy skill with it. This evens it out, being that dazed is one of the most powerful conditions out there, if not the most powerful (in my opinion).

So while rangers and warriors have to interrupt a spell and take up a shitload of adrenaline or energy, assassins get to spout it off whenever the hell they want for only ten energy, and only 12 seconds later they get to use it again. They don't have to time it---they don't have to interrupt a spell, they only have to use minimal energy and they get a short recharge time on it. If they decide to keep it they should tweak it to have a longer recharge time of I think about fifteen, maybe 20 seconds, and I also think it should have to interrupt a spell. Otherwise it's a simple, spammable daze that will tear apart most any caster with ease, unless they brought blind. And even if they did, it would take all their time just to keep the damn assassin blinded since he can spam the skill so easily around the battlefield.

Other than temple strike the assassins are decently balanced I think, I only note that one skill as being overpowered thus far.

flawless650

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Dec 2005

In my opinion, most of the assassin's elites are total crap. There's one elite that gives you 50% blocking while attacking; I can finally solo warriors and rangers in CA (sarcasm). Another elite does 50 damage as a lead attack, I'm not desparate enough to waste an elite slot for this. Great elite number three is a hex that can add additional 2 degen to poison and bleed. I'd rather be a fire ele with immolate or necro with life transfer than take this crappy hex elite. Two energy management elites, I have so much energy from regular regen that taking energy mangement elites becomes wasteful. To top it all off, one energy management elite is a hex that requires the target to die. Then, we have two other elites that decide it'd be grand to increase the chances of double hits and critical hits to 30-40% if you have max stats.

glountz

glountz

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Nov 2005

W/Mo

I agree completely with Pie xag.
Make it cost 15, 30 sec recharge, Ambidextry elite so you need to link two attacks before, and remove blind as well.
Because, with this skill, you cant solely take not only a caster but a warrior.
I used this skill along frenzy and an evade stance to interrupt like hell casters and take down warriors.

Other than that, as I said before, assassins are pretty well balanced.

Empirism

Empirism

Academy Page

Join Date: Apr 2005

"they don't have to interrupt a spell"

indeed. with manacost and recharge like current makes it, well... godly

"Ambidextry elite so you need to link two attacks before, and remove blind as well."

well, i dont think it should tweak or nerf totally, it can be left still powerfull elite. i think manacost and recharge time for it should be enough or that it should have used to interupt a spell beside automatic daze, thatway there needs little playing.

carnivore

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2005

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by PieXags
As a whole, I do not think assassins are overpowered. After reviewing them for a while I've come to one problem skill I think is pretty severly overpowered.

Temple Strike

It's an assassin elite skill that after following a single strike (a lead attack) interrupts, DAZES, and blinds an opponent for a set time. It only costs ten energy, and has only a twelve second recharge.

What the HELL is this? This is the skill I keep coming to. If I get killed by an assassin it's always because of this skill, no others. I don't give a damn if they hit me with an entire 4 line combo, I can take the damage, I can withstand the onslaught of normal attacks with the proper skillset, but this skill seems overpowered to me. Mainly because of the dazed condition it so easily spreads around.

Think about it---rangers and warriors can daze as well, rangers have concussion shot and warriors have skull crack. However, BOTH of these either have very high adrenaline or energy cost. For rangers it's 25 energy, for warriors it's 9 adrenaline. And BOTH skills require you to interrupt an enemy skill with it. This evens it out, being that dazed is one of the most powerful conditions out there, if not the most powerful (in my opinion).

So while rangers and warriors have to interrupt a spell and take up a shitload of adrenaline or energy, assassins get to spout it off whenever the hell they want for only ten energy, and only 12 seconds later they get to use it again. They don't have to time it---they don't have to interrupt a spell, they only have to use minimal energy and they get a short recharge time on it. If they decide to keep it they should tweak it to have a longer recharge time of I think about fifteen, maybe 20 seconds, and I also think it should have to interrupt a spell. Otherwise it's a simple, spammable daze that will tear apart most any caster with ease, unless they brought blind. And even if they did, it would take all their time just to keep the damn assassin blinded since he can spam the skill so easily around the battlefield.

Other than temple strike the assassins are decently balanced I think, I only note that one skill as being overpowered thus far.
Completely agreed.

If this skill doesnt get nerfed it will be the staple skilll in CA and TA. When theres only 1 monk and you can put a daze on him whenever you want, you basically killed him.

I myself was playing a heal monk w/Prot spirit and Mend ailment when i ran into it and got completely blind sided

but after that i went boon prot instead.

Guardian>Assasins.

Mysterial

Mysterial

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2005

Servants of Fortuna

E/Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by carnivore
If this skill doesnt get nerfed it will be the staple skilll in CA and TA. When theres only 1 monk and you can put a daze on him whenever you want, you basically killed him.
If you're a smart arena monk, you're playing boon prot and you have Contemplation of Purity, which removes Dazed just as well as the various nasty hexes you can get and it isn't a spell so they can't interrupt it.

I don't think Temple Strike needs to be nerfed; I get screwed up by a Mesmer running Migraine and an interrupt or two at least as badly as this skill and the hexes are harder to prevent.