Animate Bone Minions (Appearence Discussion) - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

xenoranger

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2005

24 Jan 2006 at 15:02 - 1

Look at that.

Honestly, It's bugged me forever knowing that Animate Bone Minions has an icon that looks like spiders, but instead of animating bone spiders (which'd be much cooler - IMO), it animates a weaker version of horrors.

Honestly... I wish A-Net would've put a little more effort into this.

crimsonfilms

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2005

24 Jan 2006 at 15:03 - 2

Mountain out of mole hills.

Crystal Of Winter

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2005

London, UK

Mo/W

24 Jan 2006 at 15:07 - 3

yea I was hoping that it would be those things in the desert, jade scabs(sp?)

floppinghog

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2005

pit of brimstone

Squad Six Six Six [ssss]

A/Me

24 Jan 2006 at 15:27 - 4

their not bone minions though... i think they just needed some other icon or something.. lol i too, would like to see spiders though (i felt the same way when i first got that skill long ago)

Plague

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2005

N/E

24 Jan 2006 at 15:27 - 5

They probably were at some point, but ANet ran out of time or usable concepts, and started reskinning the "multi-horror" as scarabs, and decided to just use minions and horrors as standards.

I too wish horrors were worth using. But, at such a low level and at 25 energy, no, I won't use them. I would rather make one minion that has ranged attacks, more health, requires less attention than multiple horrors (less healing large groups) and more powerful attacks.

The only thing having multiple horrors is good for is being able to use transfer condition, damage and consume corpse skills so your army isn't eaten up. But, if you're creating an army properly, then you'll never need this aside from PvP. And in PvP... first, WHY are you being a dedicated MM in PvP. Secondly, if you are, you're either running a dedicated team build, so you don't need to be making horrors much to begin with, much less 25 energy ones that can't put a dent in your enemies or you're just being noobish and being a MM in random arenas. In that case, I'd say you have more problems on your hands, like your dead teammates, or why you're making minions to handle only 4 people that are either already dead or are too hard to kill to overwhelm with one minion at a time.

Bottom line, Horrors aren't exactly useful to begin with at 25 energy. In PvE, this is especially true since horrors group up and can't get out of AoE, which is the number one cause of failure of a MM in PvE.

Drop the energy cost to 15, raise the horrors' levels by two, even one and give them a natural health degeneration of -2 upon creation and we'll talk.

xenoranger

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2005

24 Jan 2006 at 15:38 - 6

Minions are my infantry. I should post some pics... some people actually enjoy watching my work. I usually have 20+ minions around me at all times (in most areas). It's funny b/c I often ask why we brought hench. I mean... 20+ minions @ lvl 13 are doing more damage than even the lvl 20 hench (in some areas). It's like I stated in another thread, the minions are actually more useful than horrors despite their level diff.
Consider that

minions offer 2 for 1 corpse
AI is more easily distracted by minions and less apt to attack party
minions do 3/4 the damage of horrors, but since there are 2 attacking at once, it's more like 6/4 the damage of horrors.
Mark of Pain + Minions (nuff said)
Minions + High Soul Reaping = Constant energy supply
Minions + Death Nova

I know you can do a lot of the same with horrors, but minions are better (IMO) b/c the numbers and the fact that you don't need a meat sheild when you have an undead army going before you.

Still... (On subject)
Jade Scarabs... jeez. All you need to do is make minions spider creatures and just give them bones for legs. Alternatively, you could alter the Fiends to have an extra set of legs (instead of teh headless/armless body) and use those. There are so many good ideas that weren't used for minons.

I love being a necro.. but I hate redunancy in bone creatures.

Fungus Amongus

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2005

Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare] | [Rare] Alliance

24 Jan 2006 at 17:22 - 7

Quote:

Originally Posted by xenoranger

I love being a necro.. but I hate redunancy in bone creatures.

I am totally with you on that one. If anything I would like it to be easier to distinguish Minions from Horrors. Sometimes I will use Feinds, Horrors, and Minions. IMO the Minions are better candidates for Death Nova so an easier way to identify them would be a plus.

Quote:

Originally Posted by xenoranger

[*]Minions + High Soul Reaping = Constant energy supply

Bingo. The initial investment of 25 energy looks expensive, but once you regen some of that energy, the payback from Soul Reaping seems infinite.

Poised

Academy Page

Join Date: Jun 2005

24 Jan 2006 at 18:29 - 8

Minions absolutely rock, but I too would love to see a different skin, undead scarabs would do fine :P

xenoranger

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2005

24 Jan 2006 at 18:38 - 9

a buddy of mine has been playing Diablo 2 quite a bit. He's been telling me how you can use Skelemancing (Their Necros) to raise minions that are more powerful than you,but you can only have 1 at a time. (Golems I think he said they were)

Honestly, I'd like to be able to do more than animate bone _____. In Diablo 2, you can create skeleton sorcerers. It'd be interesting if you could animate minions or give them varying attributes (besides death nova and enchantments). Before you say that'd unbalance things, consider that you can only raise a single bone creature with a specific natural enchantment on it. I can see why they left it the way it is.. but just during PvE, it'd be fun to screw around using loads of different minion types. (Diablo 2 has roughly 6 unique ones from what I've been told).

Still...
I do enjoy the current model of Animate Bone _____ . I just think that it could seriously stand some improvements. And... what's up with Blood/Death Build? CUrses work better for creating minions, but you have Blood skills that make better usage of minons. I just don't get that one.

NeoSaber

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Mar 2005

Guildless For Life

R/N

24 Jan 2006 at 19:48 - 10

I think back during the beta tests, bone minions did look like the scarab creatures in that icon. I remember fighting some Zombie Warlocks near the Hot Springs and suddenly being surrounded by a swarm of scarabs thinking "Where the hell did these things come from?!"

I have no idea why they may have changed into bone horrors though.

Caelus The Fallen

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

Glasgow

Voice of the Darkness

E/Mo

24 Jan 2006 at 20:03 - 11

Personally, i cant wait fot the chapter two elite skill "animate flesh golem"

Sereng Amaranth

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2005

The Amazon Basin [AB]

24 Jan 2006 at 20:17 - 12

Animate Bone Dragon ftw

Nevin

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2005

24 Jan 2006 at 20:31 - 13

Yeah, all they gotta do, is take the scarabs, retexture and make a few gaps, make some bones show and they'd be fine.

Personally at first when I summoned a minion I was dissapointed it wasn't a zombie or something, but I've gotten used to it.

What I'd really like to summon, is one of those flesh golems from Ring of Fire

Lord Iowerth

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2005

Atlanta, GA (#guildwarsguru FTW!)

Biscuit Of Dewm [MEEP]

R/Mo

24 Jan 2006 at 20:35 - 14

Quote:

Originally Posted by xenoranger

And... what's up with Blood/Death Build? CUrses work better for creating minions, but you have Blood skills that make better usage of minons. I just don't get that one.

Blood in a MM build is usually for offering of blood. Offering = more energy = more minions. Also blood gives you the option of some siphons or vampiric spells, just incase you come under fire and you don't want your army to turn on your buddies.

I do think there should be some better Death magic elites, animate bone dragon would be very nice ... lol

Grimm

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Nov 2005

N/

24 Jan 2006 at 21:44 - 15

I use 16 death and 9 blood for Offering of blood. I don't normally need to use it, though, since I have 10 soul reaping.

To the person griping about minions (and using the terms for fiends, minions and horrors interchangebly making it very hard to read), 25 energy is not a problem if you're set up for minions. I mainly use Minions and Fiends constantly, and they both cost 25 energy.

And there will be elite minion: Flesh Golemn. It will leave an exploitable corpse.

Diablo???

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jun 2005

Seattle

SPQR

N/R

24 Jan 2006 at 21:44 - 16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sereng Amaranth

Animate Bone Dragon ftw

w00t .. that can be an Death Magic Elite! FTW!!

generik

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2005

24 Jan 2006 at 22:01 - 17

What some do is cast *tons* of minions, and death nova them

sun is in us

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2005

Organic Soup

Of the Day

Me/

24 Jan 2006 at 22:16 - 18

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeoSaber

I think back during the beta tests, bone minions did look like the scarab creatures in that icon. I remember fighting some Zombie Warlocks near the Hot Springs and suddenly being surrounded by a swarm of scarabs thinking "Where the hell did these things come from?!"

I have no idea why they may have changed into bone horrors though.

Yea I remember they used to be like the picture.....much nicer as it was just that much more information when PVP'ing (not that there are many MM's in PVP anymore).

An early patch changed them into the crappy copy of Horrors they are now......

I can't understand the change either.....

xenoranger

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2005

24 Jan 2006 at 23:45 - 19

woot woot.. Animate Bone Dragon!

gonna love that (if it's useful)

Nevin

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2005

25 Jan 2006 at 00:17 - 20

I still MM in PvP, It farms faction.. If you know what you're doing with 3 minions you can over come any odds, It seems that I'm always turning the tables in my matches when my team dies, being able to survive with TOD and deal damage with bombs and horror/fiend raw attack. I've beaten 3 vs 1's before.. Good stuff.

Bone dragon would be beautiful, to make it harder to summon, have it sacrifice life and combine 2 horrors 1 fiend in order to summon it.

xenoranger

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2005

25 Jan 2006 at 00:36 - 21

I think it should be a sacrificed of life too.. but give it a 60 sec recharge time.

I also think they need a minion that lasts longer than just a few min. But that's just me.

lyra_song

Hell's Protector

Join Date: Oct 2005

R/Mo

25 Jan 2006 at 00:46 - 22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grimm

And there will be elite minion: Flesh Golemn. It will leave an exploitable corpse.

This has been mentioned in the magazine with chap 2 preview. ^^ so i dont think the bone dragon will come out.

Diablo???

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jun 2005

Seattle

SPQR

N/R

25 Jan 2006 at 00:51 - 23

I think the Death Magic attribute itself have been highly undermined, instead we could have an entire variety of Minions. They should a Bone Mage at least, with a Bone Mage/Fiend/Horror acting as Elem/Ranger/Warrior you get a faux team instantly, no need for henchies! (Yourself as a monk since u can heal these minions).

Oh, and for Bone Dragons it would only make sense to make it extremely expensive... (70% sacrifice, 25 energy with 10 seconds cast + 60 seconds cool down).

BBoy_Manchild

Banned

Join Date: Aug 2005

dayton ohio

N/Mo

25 Jan 2006 at 00:52 - 24

minions rock, horrors dont, my MM's skill bar has both fiends and minions, but for oro farming i hardly ever use minions but in areas where the mobs attack your little buddies using minions and death nova and then letting them run off towards the enemy is fun

LifeInfusion

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: May 2005

in the midline

E/Mo

25 Jan 2006 at 02:06 - 25

As mcuh as I agree that there should be a new skin for Animate Bone Minions, I believe this goes in the suggestion forum.

Anyway there are reasons for bone minions to get a new skin.

A. The icon has a spider icon = confusing because you expect to get spider things.
B. Easier to dsinguish how many minions/horrors/fiends you have.
C. Because minions should not be labeled minions if they look like horrors. Might as well call it "animate horror pair".

fiery

Banned

Join Date: Oct 2005

maryland

InYurFace Gaming [IYF]

R/

25 Jan 2006 at 02:11 - 26

Quote:

a buddy of mine has been playing Diablo 2 quite a bit. He's been telling me how you can use Skelemancing (Their Necros) to raise minions that are more powerful than you,but you can only have 1 at a time. (Golems I think he said they were)

sorry i had to laugh.. but if your friend is doing D2 or D2 LOD with skeles..thats funni..

not to be offensive but golems and skels are childs play anywhere in the game.. Revive is the best skill

i believe its

skele/skele mage/golems:fire,steel,rock,blood/revive

Diablo???

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jun 2005

Seattle

SPQR

N/R

25 Jan 2006 at 04:36 - 27

Quote:

Originally Posted by fiery

sorry i had to laugh.. but if your friend is doing D2 or D2 LOD with skeles..thats funni..

not to be offensive but golems and skels are childs play anywhere in the game.. Revive is the best skill

i believe its

skele/skele mage/golems:fire,steel,rock,blood/revive

must be in normal mode, once in nightmare or hell, they're useless.

Murder In China

Banned

Join Date: Sep 2005

/B/Chan

Looking for one

W/

25 Jan 2006 at 04:43 - 28

Skeletons in Diablo 2: LoD have been upgraded drasticly, they have higher amount of life and great damage. But the max you could summon is around 13 at level 35 skeletons I believe.

Revives have shitty AI and still have shitty AI, plus they lag the game like crasy. :x

Nevin

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2005

25 Jan 2006 at 04:47 - 29

Quote:

Originally Posted by BBoy_Manchild

minions rock, horrors dont, my MM's skill bar has both fiends and minions, but for oro farming i hardly ever use minions but in areas where the mobs attack your little buddies using minions and death nova and then letting them run off towards the enemy is fun

I would use minions, but thats too much energy. With a max of 49 (Thats all I get with my necro) That'd be 2 minions 1 fiend and I'd be burnt out.

KamikazeChicken

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2005

Mo/

25 Jan 2006 at 04:52 - 30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murder In China

Skeletons in Diablo 2: LoD have been upgraded drasticly, they have higher amount of life and great damage. But the max you could summon is around 13 at level 35 skeletons I believe.

15 Skels+fant (beast)+conc (merc wep)+might (merc)= fun times.

I still enjoy the occasional romp through the Cow level.

xenoranger

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2005

25 Jan 2006 at 05:24 - 31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevin

I would use minions, but thats too much energy. With a max of 49 (Thats all I get with my necro) That'd be 2 minions 1 fiend and I'd be burnt out.

I have a max of about 45. If you adjust your skills you'll never run out. Consider this:

Soul Reaping 7
Death 16
Curses 10

Start by using curses to bring enemies down. You recover lost energy from curses through soul reaping. You then use that energy to Animate bone minions. K.. so now you have two lvl 13 minions. They go and kill with roughly 6/4 the ability of one lvl 18 horror. So, now more enemies are dying. You gain a soul reaping bonus. Animate again. Keep firing Animate as it becomes available. Also, after you get about 12 minions up there, some will start to die. Their deaths trigger soul reaping. Boom.. more energy for more minions.

Trust me, I know what i'm taking about b/c I've managed 40 + minions in 1 mission (The Wilds). The average for me is generally 24 minions at my command in most parts of the game. With my horde, I can defend against most enemies and by the time I hit a boss or whatever, I've got the defense (in numbers) to protect my party. Some say that Fiends are the best, but if you look at them, they're basically distance fighters. I've heard they do more damage than Horrors, but I haven't seen that proven. I have seen them killed quickly though, so the claim of less armor does seem to hold true.

Trust the Minions.

if you must cast twice in a row... carry Arcane Echo.

Murder In China

Banned

Join Date: Sep 2005

/B/Chan

Looking for one

W/

25 Jan 2006 at 05:32 - 32

Quote:

Originally Posted by KamikazeChicken

15 Skels+fant (beast)+conc (merc wep)+might (merc)= fun times.

I still enjoy the occasional romp through the Cow level.

Yes, those were fun times soloing Hell mode

Fungus Amongus

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2005

Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare] | [Rare] Alliance

25 Jan 2006 at 06:34 - 33

In resonse to the D2 replies:
My Skelemancer's name in D2 was XxlagyoutodethxX, because of the lag from all the skellies.

This post has wandered way off topic, which means this thread has been hijacked.

The question at hand is:

Should the skill Animate Bone Minions animate a minion that looks more like it's skill icon? (Or something other than Bone Horrors?)

~Edit-btw, thanks to those of you who managed to stay on topic, you know who you are.

Manic Smile

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2005

Hawaii

----- 15^50[Rare] ---- Alliance: ----- [SMS] -----

25 Jan 2006 at 06:35 - 34

Quote:

Originally Posted by xenoranger

a buddy of mine has been playing Diablo 2 quite a bit. He's been telling me how you can use Skelemancing (Their Necros) to raise minions that are more powerful than you,but you can only have 1 at a time. (Golems I think he said they were)

Honestly, I'd like to be able to do more than animate bone _____. In Diablo 2, you can create skeleton sorcerers. It'd be interesting if you could animate minions or give them varying attributes (besides death nova and enchantments). Before you say that'd unbalance things, consider that you can only raise a single bone creature with a specific natural enchantment on it. I can see why they left it the way it is.. but just during PvE, it'd be fun to screw around using loads of different minion types. (Diablo 2 has roughly 6 unique ones from what I've been told).

Still...
I do enjoy the current model of Animate Bone _____ . I just think that it could seriously stand some improvements. And... what's up with Blood/Death Build? CUrses work better for creating minions, but you have Blood skills that make better usage of minons. I just don't get that one.

As someone who had a lvl 97 Necro at one point before realizing Amazon got better drops and the later druid expansion I can say it's true/not.

They had skele wars(mostly useless later game), skele casters(supplemental at best), 4 different types of golems( clay, blood, steel, fire), ability to raise the exact monster killed(UNDEAD MOOING COWS FTW!!)

Expansion is coming out with an elite skill golem type.

Manic Smile

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2005

Hawaii

----- 15^50[Rare] ---- Alliance: ----- [SMS] -----

25 Jan 2006 at 06:37 - 35

Quote:

Originally Posted by xenoranger

I have a max of about 45. If you adjust your skills you'll never run out. Consider this:

Soul Reaping 7
Death 16
Curses 10

Start by using curses to bring enemies down. You recover lost energy from curses through soul reaping. You then use that energy to Animate bone minions. K.. so now you have two lvl 13 minions. They go and kill with roughly 6/4 the ability of one lvl 18 horror. So, now more enemies are dying. You gain a soul reaping bonus. Animate again. Keep firing Animate as it becomes available. Also, after you get about 12 minions up there, some will start to die. Their deaths trigger soul reaping. Boom.. more energy for more minions.

Trust me, I know what i'm taking about b/c I've managed 40 + minions in 1 mission (The Wilds). The average for me is generally 24 minions at my command in most parts of the game. With my horde, I can defend against most enemies and by the time I hit a boss or whatever, I've got the defense (in numbers) to protect my party. Some say that Fiends are the best, but if you look at them, they're basically distance fighters. I've heard they do more damage than Horrors, but I haven't seen that proven. I have seen them killed quickly though, so the claim of less armor does seem to hold true.

Trust the Minions.

if you must cast twice in a row... carry Arcane Echo.

Try running the minnions in harder/later missions. Horrors will get owned quickly leaving you with plenty of mana sure but where's the corpses to do anything with.

Sol_Vie

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2005

Boston, MA

Blood Of Orr [BoO]

25 Jan 2006 at 06:39 - 36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manic Smile

As someone who had a lvl 97 Necro at one point before realizing Amazon got better drops and the later druid expansion I can say it's true/not.

They had skele wars(mostly useless later game), skele casters(supplemental at best), 4 different types of golems( clay, blood, steel, fire), ability to raise the exact monster killed(UNDEAD MOOING COWS FTW!!)

Expansion is coming out with an elite skill golem type.

At least try to make it seem like you're trying to stay on subject.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fungus Amongus

In resonse to the D2 replies:
My Skelemancer's name in D2 was XxlagyoutodethxX, because of the lag from all the skellies.

This post has wandered way off topic, which means this thread has been hijacked.

The question at hand is:

Should the skill Animate Bone Minions animate a minion that looks more like it's skill icon? (Or something other than Bone Horrors?)

~Edit-btw, thanks to those of you who managed to stay on topic, you know who you are.

I'd have to say that things are fine the way they are. The term "minions" just means that there are more of them as compared to "horror". I don't think there's any need for a skin (or... something. They don't really have skin.

) Besides, they're smaller in size than the horrors. Could have been because of the level difference though.

Manic Smile

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2005

Hawaii

----- 15^50[Rare] ---- Alliance: ----- [SMS] -----

25 Jan 2006 at 06:42 - 37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sol_Vie

At least try to make it seem like you're trying to stay on subject.

Sorry...I'm just following the path...

Sol_Vie

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2005

Boston, MA

Blood Of Orr [BoO]

25 Jan 2006 at 06:52 - 38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manic Smile

Sorry...I'm just following the path...

No worries. It was more of a joke. Well- I wasn't being truly critical.

Nevin

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2005

25 Jan 2006 at 12:09 - 39

Quote:

Originally Posted by xenoranger

I have a max of about 45. If you adjust your skills you'll never run out. Consider this:

Soul Reaping 7
Death 16
Curses 10

Start by using curses to bring enemies down. You recover lost energy from curses through soul reaping. You then use that energy to Animate bone minions. K.. so now you have two lvl 13 minions. They go and kill with roughly 6/4 the ability of one lvl 18 horror. So, now more enemies are dying. You gain a soul reaping bonus. Animate again. Keep firing Animate as it becomes available. Also, after you get about 12 minions up there, some will start to die. Their deaths trigger soul reaping. Boom.. more energy for more minions.

Trust me, I know what i'm taking about b/c I've managed 40 + minions in 1 mission (The Wilds). The average for me is generally 24 minions at my command in most parts of the game. With my horde, I can defend against most enemies and by the time I hit a boss or whatever, I've got the defense (in numbers) to protect my party. Some say that Fiends are the best, but if you look at them, they're basically distance fighters. I've heard they do more damage than Horrors, but I haven't seen that proven. I have seen them killed quickly though, so the claim of less armor does seem to hold true.

Trust the Minions.

if you must cast twice in a row... carry Arcane Echo.

Fiends are better then horrors, they're ranged (That means runners won't get very far) and they do slightly more damage, also they have basically the same attack rate, and they attack like a composite bow.. I'll try the just minion build later today.

Edit: I tried the build, the minions are not 6/4 as strong as horrors.. Horrors get 20-30 damage, sometimes in the 40's against casters.

I did like how the minions could trap people in corners though.

Avarre

Bubblegum Patrol

Join Date: Dec 2005

Singapore Armed Forces

25 Jan 2006 at 12:59 - 40

Offtopic : The skelemancer build is still viable in Hell, using a Defiance merc and a Beast axe to grant Fanatacism aura. I've seen plenty of devastating summoners that don't use revive, but that of course is the more powerful line, especially once you start brining Enigma and aura runewords into play, as well as Iron Golem (better than fire in all ways). Although skeleton sorcerors are still pretty useless

Back ontopic: I'd love to see an upgrade to bone minions... Flesh golem looks pretty awesome though, a nice boost for Minion masters. If they turn out to be decent, MF might be FotM for awhile... although easier to counter with assassins to quickly kill the MMs