Elementalist the new Mesmer? - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

lg5000

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2005

Australia

30 Jan 2006 at 02:28 - 41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Former Ruling

Reason I stopped picking up Ele's anywhere: Most of them have IQ's of -50 and act like idiots now that their precise AoE was nerfed.

Sounds like we have a replacement to the w/mo's..

As for eles becoming mesmers, it's taken a long time for people to realise that mesmers do more than cast distortion, hence, more and more, mesmers get invited into parties. It will be some time before the community realises that eles are still good to have on your team... although, I'll probably kill the next person who decides that firestorm is a good skill to bring with you into UW or FoW.. at the same time, the new tombs wurms are not shut down with backfire and cry of frustration!

Eles are still welcome in my groups, as mesmers would be if I wasn't the one playing a mesmer myself, although, two mesmers in the same group is good fun.

Bleidd

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Aug 2005

E/Me

30 Jan 2006 at 03:32 - 42

Thanks for all the thoughts and comments thus far.

In regards to one or two responses: Fire is supposed to be the area damage line. Not the AEDOT-Ward line. You can't reasonably expect anyone to bring along a spell like Fire Storm or Searing Heat just to keep a mob off another player. The Elementalist him/herself has better ways of doing that (Wards, etc).

My point regarding Ward Against Harm is that the concept fits better with the Earth line (where every other Ward is). Not to mention the fact Water already has how many elites compared to Earth?

The Water line, as some of you have mentioned, seems to be more geared towards playing with a capable team. That (unfortunately or not) is less often the case for me, so perhaps that's why I've had no luck with it at all.

Anyways... thanks again. Good responses and thoughts here, which is what I was hoping for.

Edit - Thanks for the link to the Why Nuking Sucks thread.

Manic Smile

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2005

Hawaii

----- 15^50[Rare] ---- Alliance: ----- [SMS] -----

30 Jan 2006 at 04:14 - 43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pevil Lihatuh

heh quite so, I'm like you Mathias. I refuse to be an echo nuker, or an SS necro. I play around to find the stuff I like. I've been a ranger from the start, who are always rejected unless trappers are wanted (i will trap, just coz thats downright fun

). As I said in my first post, most people want the quick, easy, thoughtless build, and to be honest, I can't blame them, but that means people like me who want to play something effective AND fun get rejected or forced into a different build. Hence I stick to my henchies. They love me no matter what, and as much as I hate Alesia and Mhenlo's healing, they're still 20 times better than most pug players.

buy the game...wait for your friends to figure out it's fun...get your gf to play heal monk = good times

I've played necro forever...makes me sad to see how popular it is now...

Valdaran Longfoot

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2005

Colorado, US

Furious Dragons Reign [FDR]

W/

30 Jan 2006 at 06:38 - 44

Eles and mesmers offer builds that others can't as effectivly dupe, so their will always be a demand for them, it just may cycle out.

I had a PvE untill about a week before the factions weekend (4 20 PvE chars and I wanted a Ritualist) :'(. I also have a 20 Mesmer PvE and its is very hard to get a group. Everyone thinks your retarded as a ele and useless as a mesmer. Fire Island missions are great for Eles, but really REALLY suck for mesmers.

Necros have found a VERY usefull place in recient times. SS is making a killing, and only monks wait shorter to get into groups than a MM. I'm waiting to see Eles come back into main-stream farming and missions, and with the new classes coming out later this spring, they just might. A Ele/Rt spaming AoE and damage sprits sounds really fun...............

LordDeArnise

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jan 2006

California, USA

The Elite Knights of Tarnia [PwnD]

30 Jan 2006 at 08:49 - 45

If there is one primary class I have the most fun playing as, it is mesmer. True, they make for great shutdowners and spikers in PvP, but they have some spells that are great for PvE support. True, Chaos Storm isn't that effective now since the AI can just run from it, but even those Skeletal Berserkers and Sorrows Deep Knights are suckers for an Empathy hex, especially when combined with Necro SS and the barrage of a MM's bone fiend army. Another spell I liked using with a primary mesmer is Shatter Hex. Granted, it doesn't have the AoE it used to have, but as a support unit for a group, your melee'ers and monks will feel relieved to find their SS hex shattered and damaging the AI mobs at the same time--for once, did my primary mesmer helped keep a group going in ToA-UW.

As one who prefer using fire on elementalists, I still find a fairly good demand for pffense nukers, and found some good Earth and Air spikers in PvP battles. Searing Heat isn't that good anymore, but for a good fire ele, Rodgort's Invocation and Phoenix are good substitutes. Mind Burn is still ok, but when you have a primary ele bringing out the 'big nukes' in skills, then Elemental Attuenement is a good thing to have along with Arcane Echo. Now I don't understand why some feel that offensive Ele's in general suck just because they can't defend themselves, but I've always told people to "play to their styles".

Rangers, like mesmers, to me, are underrated. Not many people realize just how efficient a barrager or interrupter can be when facing water ele's, among others, since Maelstrom doesn't affect a ranger unless that ranger is casting a spell off the secondary class. True, many have seen how efficient trappers are, and they still are when it comes to dealing with unwary opponents, or trapper teams in high-end places. If alot more people can see just how efficient these so-called support classes are when combined with good nukers, good healers, and good tanks, then you got one kick-butt group.

Edit: Speaking of the new classes for factions, I think R/A's have wicked potentials for melee'ing in both PvP and PvE, seeing that I had the most comfort in them. Rt's have great potential too for several builds.

antialias02

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2005

Eastern Iowa

Forsaken Wanderers [FW]

Me/E

30 Jan 2006 at 16:43 - 46

Quote:

Originally Posted by LordDeArnise

Rangers, like mesmers, to me, are underrated. Not many people realize just how efficient a barrager or interrupter can be when facing water ele's, among others, since Maelstrom doesn't affect a ranger unless that ranger is casting a spell off the secondary class.

I've seen a lot of calls for rangers in the PvE places I hang out at from time to time. I don't think Rangers are underrated anymore. As far as I'm concerned, the two classes that still get the shaft are Eles and Mesmers. Especially in terms of PvP, but in PvE as well. (And in PvP, if you think Rangers are underrated, you've never fallen miserably to a ranger spike).

I love playing the Mesmer. It's a class that is well and truly underrated simply because it's easier to play other classes, and so most people DO play other classes without even stopping to see what the Mesmer does and why it's so very helpful.

But there's no place for a Mesmer in a 5 man group unless he's Nuking. Which I have resorted to, with twin attunements and a full fire bar. Fast-cast cannon and a little inspiration for the win. But I digress. Until the community at large realizes or understands Mesmers and how they can be helpful, they won't be the much-wanted class that Warriors, Monks, and Necros are.

I wonder how "awesome" this game would be if everybody just got a "Spiteful Spirit" spell and be done with it - you know. THAT would be balance, for sure. ./sarcasm

Kook~NBK~

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2005

A little chalet outside Drok's

Natural Born Killaz

30 Jan 2006 at 17:39 - 47

I love playing my Mesmer! In PvE, it's easy to take out 2 enemies with just two spells - backfire on a caster & empathy on a tank - especially when coupled with shatter delusions

! But that's just the tip of the iceberg - energy stealing, interrupts, slowdowns - Mesmer's got 'em all! And yes it is damn hard to get into a group as a mesmer, more than any other class. I think the reason why is because the effects a Mesmer has aren't as noticable as a MM, for example. (Who else sees every enemy in a mob take 80 damage from an Energy surge?)

Ele's have gotten a bum rap since the AoE nerf. AND I BLAME ORION

!!! He's still using firestorm, and at the worst possible time. And if that's the example of an ele for most people, guess what most people are going to think of Ele's! When I'm playing a stance tank in the Tombs UW, I take Ward against foes for slowing things down and aftershock as a compliment to the meteor showers that the Primary Ele's cast. - Can't always use them due to the energy draining that goes on, but when they are availiable - sweetness!

LordDeArnise

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jan 2006

California, USA

The Elite Knights of Tarnia [PwnD]

30 Jan 2006 at 17:46 - 48

Quote:

Originally Posted by antialias02

But there's no place for a Mesmer in a 5 man group unless he's Nuking. Which I have resorted to, with twin attunements and a full fire bar. Fast-cast cannon and a little inspiration for the win. But I digress. Until the community at large realizes or understands Mesmers and how they can be helpful, they won't be the much-wanted class that Warriors, Monks, and Necros are.

I wonder how "awesome" this game would be if everybody just got a "Spiteful Spirit" spell and be done with it - you know. THAT would be balance, for sure. ./sarcasm

Leave the "Spiteful Spirit" to the Curses Necro.

Not all mesmers need to have nukes, or a fast form of healing. My first mesmer build over the summer was a Me/N, and at the high-end places, which was ToA-UW and FoW at the time, and back then, when the AI wasn't as smart as they are now, a good Chaos Storm and Shatter Hex did some nice nuking, although I never felt a Curse Spell like Barbs would be very useful when hexing a foe.

Now that the AI are smarter, a mesmer has to rely on interrupts and spells like Empathy, Backfire, Blackout, etc. True, a good group can use a Mesmer with secondary Monk or Nuking abilities, but I see other potential with mesmers using other classes, since my latest mesmer build is a Me/R. Maybe Warrior for melee support and using Illusionary Weaponry, Ranger for a pet, maybe some form of self-healing, or fast-casting spirits or traps, or the aforementioned Necro curse that add damage when Barbed then hexed.

Player skills, people.

Caged Fury

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2005

Hearts Of Fury [HoF]

30 Jan 2006 at 18:34 - 49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kook~NBK~

I think the reason why is because the effects a Mesmer has aren't as noticable as a MM, for example. (Who else sees every enemy in a mob take 80 damage from an Energy surge?)

That's pretty true, I can relate to that. My mesmer joined afew pugs where there was always a wammo in the team who kept boasting how great he was when monsters were dropping quickly. Other party members tend to be in awe and amazement with the wammo's supa dupa whacking, and cheer them on. They didn't even know that I was helping

with Empathy doing 29 damage each time a foe attacked, Wastels Worry being spammed and doing 57 damage each time and 126 on a caster from Backfire. Plus I was interrupting all their healing. Only when I ran out of energy, players started to question the wammo's ability when the next mob wasn't falling as quickly. LOL

It would be nice if the abilities of the Mesmer were more visible. Although, it once took me a long while to explain to people that the strange speech bubble from foes were due to Cry of Frustration interrupting their actions.

Carinae

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jun 2005

Inside

Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]

30 Jan 2006 at 18:35 - 50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divinus Stella

Still a high demand for nukers in end-game areas like Black Hole and FoW/UW, as a fire nuker can still out damage any SS necro.

Um, no. In terms of pure damage, not only is the SS build stronger, but so is the MM build.

And as an added bonus, SS nec's get top-notch enchantment removal AND top-notch interrupts WITHOUT needing to re-allocate attribute points.

Pevil Lihatuh

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2005

Yorkshire, UK

R/Me

30 Jan 2006 at 18:46 - 51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manic Smile

buy the game...wait for your friends to figure out it's fun...get your gf to play heal monk = good times

I've played necro forever...makes me sad to see how popular it is now...

lol well you see... I bought the game. My boyfriend bought the game (haha wrong way round

) but he got bored of it. But I'm very lucky, I have some friends from another forum who I play with, and a wonderful guild that I joined before Guild Wars was out whilst playing another game

Oh on the Mesmer not being good in a 5 man group... pfft. What about if you're farming SF and there are 2 or more monks all healing each other? Yes, it can be overcome with mass damage, but with most teams that's gonna take a while. Mesmer casts Backfire on each of them whilst the team kills off their 'minions', oh look, 3 or 4 casts of "heal other" for 150+ damage and they're dead without the rest of the team even looking at the monks.

I know if I go farming with my warrior friend and 2 healer henchies, we kick anythings behind, because I'm a Ranger/Mesmer, and if I forget to bring interupts, we get seriously wiped out whenever we hit a necro or monk group . But with my friend tanking like a rock, and me interupting Animate, or Heal Other, things drop like flies

sun is in us

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2005

Organic Soup

Of the Day

Me/

30 Jan 2006 at 20:36 - 52

Quote:

heh well you see, people in games are as stupid as in real life They go through phases. Right now, the phase is "omg aoe is useless".

Quoted for truth. One of my favorite Churchhill quote's "The Masses are A****. I have played a lot of MMORPG's but (Generalization Alert...do not be offended) in GW there is a huge amount of Group-Think (Mending is this....Mes can't do this...this skill sucks....Ad Naseum). It is like everyone wants to be a lemming in the worst way. Gees people, 420 (whatever) skills and you have to be like everybody else?

This is more like it:

Quote:

Water is my favourite Element just for the diversity. With my Magic, I snare the enemy, make him miss with attacks and poison him with my arrows. Then I hit him with Barrage and set Booboo (My Bear) on him. Now tell me Water Magic's Rubbish.

OoooooNoooes....he is using Water Magic and a Pet........Even a bow....GET THE THOUGHT POLICE! HAVE HIM ARRESTED NOW!

/Rant

What I find disappointing right now in Eles is some of the players lack of flexibility. When you play a monk, you are generally support.....when you play a Mes, sometimes you are a type of support, when you play a Necro, you may, just for a run or so, be a battery; a type of support.

So when some experienced people that have completed Tombs many, many, many, times, and they request a "warder".....why not try that? Why not adapt and be "support" for once? Is that too much to ask?

Let's see some rockin' Earth and Water Ele's out there show their stuff.....combined with the right secondary they can do wonders....the AOE nerf really was not a deal breaker at all, even if you plan on doing some nukes....

Would just like to see some more varied, adaptible, E players.

Ayres_Spellbinder

Academy Page

Join Date: Dec 2005

Atlanta, GA

Grimmwulfs Raiders

Me/E

30 Jan 2006 at 21:44 - 53

I play a Mes/E. I've used it alot as an Echo Nuker. Ppl see a Mes and say you cannot huke because you don't have 16 in fire. To this I say bs. There's something I have that Ele's don't, it's called fast casting. Then they say I don't have enough energy to be effective, to that I say bs as well. I've gone into the Tombs with PUG's and ppl see a Mes kick some ass. I've used my Mes as a Energy Denial player as well. I've done this in PvP and ppl have forgotten how well Mesmers can work. As a few ppl have said, I'm now trying out different ward skills to use in Tombs.

Basically what I'm saying, you have to come up with newcombo's and work on them. Don't go with the main stream. Ppl have takena chance on a Mes and have been surprised what I can do with her.

Y.T.

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Sep 2005

Mo/

30 Jan 2006 at 21:51 - 54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Former Ruling

Reason I stopped picking up Ele's anywhere: Most of them have IQ's of -50 and act like idiots now that their precise AoE was nerfed.

Like in this group the other day doing one of the Southern Shiverpeak's missions. Alot of Warriors, 2 monks, 2 eles. That used to be like..the "Hulk Smash" everywhere group. Ok, We go up to some Mesmer enemies, and they of course give every one of the close range party members a helping of speed reduce. Whats the Eles doing? Of course BOTH are casting Firestorm on the thing, so the next 10 secs or so turns into half our team limping around uselessly while the enemies are going every which way degening and killing our team.

ohh i so agree with u...
i'm playing ele myself, got 2+mil exp on her, but i hate inviting random eles in my teams, 'cos 75% of a time they dont want to think about wtf they're doing, and if some other prof can stop thinking for a while and get away with it, eles cant do it without seriously harming the whole team - not after infamous aoe nerf

f/ex i just love seeing some mindless fire ele casting firestorm on 1st mob running into traps - as a result the whole mobs pack run away, traps expire (2-3 min of setting traps are wasted), and few mobs attack casters instead of tank.... all teammembers are mad and cursing but if u think that this ele will stop and listen to the rest of the group - u're totally wrong. in some cases he/she'll say smth like "u're stupid noobs my firestorm does 15 dam" or just ignore and continue to cast it.... in groups with few nukers ist even more disappointing - in some areas mobs run away from firestorm but stay in met storm, dunno why but its tru. imagine 3 fire eles - 4 met storms casted and wasted 'cos some moron bring firestorm instead of meteor storm "'cos he's never using met storm - every1 who's using met storm is a noob, it causes exaustion, and why waste skillslot for fire attunment if he can do uberdamage with flare instead, all enchants can removed u noobs"...... when i'm monk its easy to deal with such ppl - just stop healing and dont rez, but if i're not monking - best option is just leave this unlucky group.
worst damage that bad necro can do is aggro evry mob in area with minions, but monk can run and rebirth so its more or less ok. bad mesmer cant do significant damage for the whole team, same goes for ranger, and we're not discussing tanks and monks here.

so its reasonable that nobody want to risk wasting their time on arguing with random ele and prefer to play safe with ss necro instead - and btw ss necro can do same damage or (in some areas) even bigger damage that fire nuker.

LordDeArnise

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jan 2006

California, USA

The Elite Knights of Tarnia [PwnD]

30 Jan 2006 at 23:20 - 55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pevil Lihatuh

Oh on the Mesmer not being good in a 5 man group... pfft. What about if you're farming SF and there are 2 or more monks all healing each other? Yes, it can be overcome with mass damage, but with most teams that's gonna take a while. Mesmer casts Backfire on each of them whilst the team kills off their 'minions', oh look, 3 or 4 casts of "heal other" for 150+ damage and they're dead without the rest of the team even looking at the monks.

I know if I go farming with my warrior friend and 2 healer henchies, we kick anythings behind, because I'm a Ranger/Mesmer, and if I forget to bring interupts, we get seriously wiped out whenever we hit a necro or monk group . But with my friend tanking like a rock, and me interupting Animate, or Heal Other, things drop like flies

Good for you! I remember how hard it is for mesmers to get into groups in ToA, only to find that I can really kick butt there. I think most people, especially the newer players today, have either forgotten or underestimate mesmers compared to, say, a SS Necro with Spinal Shivers to interrupt casters with each cold hit. A SS Necro like that is nice, but remember that it takes about a sec or two for a cold blast to hit a Spinal Shiver-ed caster, compared to a mesmer interrupting a caster in 1/4 of a sec.

It'll be nice to see SF and ToA groups use Mesmers more regularly again. Leave the heavy damage to nukers and the SS and MM Necros, and let the Mesmers (or Rangers) deal with the Priests of Sorrows and Dark Binders.

Tarkin

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Dec 2005

W/N

30 Jan 2006 at 23:40 - 56

Mesmers have cool skills, i dont have a mesmer, but i love to use they skill like secondary, they have lotssssssssss of good skills, like Fevered Dreams, very niceeeeeeeeee, u can put -10 deg fast in all group of foes... but no one think, just copy, past builds from others... Mantra of Resolve, Channeling, Sympathetic Visage, Shatter Hex, here we have a mesmer nuker... weak against casters strong against brute force...
Sadly people just copy and past builds... well i happy play alone, or with my guild we use very very diferent strategys and have the same or better results and if someone want to play a mesmer we make a mesmer strategy, someone want play a necro? So many builds!
Dont blame a profession...

Carinae

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jun 2005

Inside

Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]

31 Jan 2006 at 00:20 - 57

Quote:

Originally Posted by LordDeArnise

A SS Necro like that is nice, but remember that it takes about a sec or two for a cold blast to hit a Spinal Shiver-ed caster, compared to a mesmer interrupting a caster in 1/4 of a sec.

Point taken, but you can minimize that by standing right next to the target. Other methods are available also.

Spinal Shiver is highly situational, more like a supression interrupt. If you want to maintain a shutdown on a single target, this is what you want. They might get one off ocasionally, but you be able to block most of their spells for a sustained period.

However, (back OT) most SS Necros are N/Me. So they would already have access to the impulse mesmer interrupts, as well as a sustainable one.

chikorita23

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2005

Canada

DOI

E/Mo

31 Jan 2006 at 11:20 - 58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mathias Deathwater

Glad I could help. It just irks me that people completely dismiss water. Of course, that IS the very reason I decided to go water, because noone else would.

I'm glad I've seen people supporting Water Magic. I'm also a long-term Water Elementalist *with Bal-aura* user. I been playing GW since 2005. May. My first character = Water Elementalist. And he's still my all time favour Water Ele

!

In general Water does do lesser damage then Fire. But I do encounter certain type of enemies that are weak against cold damage, and water does wonderful damage on them.

In one of the reply here, someone mentioned Water is good for supporting your team and your "2nd" profession. This is very true! The Feast of Corruption (Curse elite) Work wonder with Water hex, and this is how me and my guild friend using in combo. (Eg. Me cast Water hex, then he cast Feast of Corruption)

Another fabulous combo = Water *snare* effect + Bal - Aura (smite) Because you snare your enemies first, then cast Bal aura on your warrior ally, this work nicely even after the update. This is how my Water Elementalist use. (15 water, 10 smite, 11 energy)

Water Maelstrom is another deadly skill in PvE! U snare ur foe, then use maelstrom, then use Water Trident prevent anyone running away. (So they stay in maelstrom range for good dmg)

At water magic of 15... or 16. Most spell still does decent damage. (Eg. Water Trident 69dmg per hit...Frozen Burst actually do 119dmg on your nearby foes... good enough in my opinion)

Of course I understand how majority people think. Often people either don't play Ele spell or have "Stereotype Impression" on how Ele = Fire Nuker. And Water = no dmg = hence no use.

In fact, in almost EVERY RPG game, Fire magic are always portrait as the most offensive spells... and Water (or Ice magic) are often portrait as supporting + freezing. So it's reasonable people like to stay in a "Fire-build" that's more "recognize!!!"

Oh I think someone mentioned Water Armors duration are bad? Well they are pretty nice... Armor of Mist duration is good, with water magic 15, you have 20 second with 41 extra armor + 33% faster running speed. (30sec recharge) Armor of Frost... okie it's a bit trickier but if u are in fire-free area, this give u another good +40armor for 36-38sec (45 sec recharge)

Bleidd

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Aug 2005

E/Me

31 Jan 2006 at 13:00 - 59

Quote:

Originally Posted by sun is in us

So when some experienced people that have completed Tombs many, many, many, times, and they request a "warder".....why not try that? Why not adapt and be "support" for once? Is that too much to ask?

Being that I am a Warder/Warden/Geomancer, I have no problems here. Apart from the minor detail I've yet to see anyone ever request such an Elementalist.

Kinda surprised this thread has gotten this far. I have to agree with whomever said a few posts ago about Rangers being underrated; they've not been underrated for a long time now, if they ever were (a topic of debate for another time). Elementalists and (still) Mesmers seem to be at the bottom of the food chain at the moment in regards to how much people seem to want them around.

Edit - Rereading some of the above posts. This thread is more about Elementalists in general, not Fire/AEDOT/AI buff vs other Ele builds. My point was I don't see a need or request for any Elementalists. Thanks again for those in this discussion.

Pro-Monk

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2005

31 Jan 2006 at 14:00 - 60

This is really more of a thread about PUGs, which are the bane of GW IMO. PUGs can be a fickled lot, swaying with the whismy of whatever professions/builds they see being spammed in the LFG chat at that particular moment (not that they really understand it). If you use PUGs exclusively, then expect your profession/build to be very popular, very unpopular, or somewhere inbetween at any given point in the game.

The PUG's at HOH and the new mission area (Tombs) take this particular maddness to the extreme. I have, upon occasion, joined PUGs calling for a specific profession/build just to see the make-up of the party. More often than not, it's clear to see that the leader had no clue of how that profession/build would work within that party. Naturally, I leave post-haste (LOL). In reality, many of the professions/builds being asked for take a certain amount of teamwork to pull off.....and how many PUGs use teamwork?

I would suggest that you spend some effort in finding a guild of those you can play with on a regular basis. I believe you'll find it time well spent and make issues such as this a thing of the past.

Guardian of the Light

Forge Runner

Join Date: Sep 2005

Radicals Against Tyrants

W/

31 Jan 2006 at 15:02 - 61

HEAR ME ALL NUKERS!

Change your builds to a 1-hit AoE build with Mark of Ragort, Fireball, etc. This will make you more powerful and more popular.

There problem solved

MacD

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Dec 2005

BEF

Me/Mo

31 Jan 2006 at 15:09 - 62

I just have to chime in, to add to what someone here has already mentioned: the 'wtf-effect'.

It's wierd how when you bring your mesmer into a party, that party is always amazed at how easily they beat mobs...you get the 'wow, we rock' replies in the chat, and these people don't seem to realise that the reason for that is the mesmer who is shutting the enemy down, stealing health/mana, degen-ing, interrupting and using all their dirty tricks. There's a reason why A-net programmed the mobs to go after mesmers and monks first (if that dumb W or pug doesn't know that you should send the W in solo to get the agro)...

People don't see what a mesmer does, they only see that the mobs drop superquick, and of course they think it's because they're so good...

Oh, and I always laugh when I see an interrupt mesmer who uses backfire

Either you interrupt, or you let the spell complete and do 150 dmg...you can't do both!

Kook~NBK~

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2005

A little chalet outside Drok's

Natural Born Killaz

31 Jan 2006 at 15:21 - 63

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacD

Oh, and I always laugh when I see an interrupt mesmer who uses backfire

Either you interrupt, or you let the spell complete and do 150 dmg...you can't do both!

It is funny! - using them on the same target is a waste! I throw backfire on the monks and switch target to the damage dealers for the interrupts.

The game is all about knowing what skills to use, when to use them, where to use them, how to use them, and who to use them on!

Tricose

Academy Page

Join Date: Dec 2005

Huddersfield (UK)

Guild of extraordinary dancers

E/N

31 Jan 2006 at 15:42 - 64

ive been playing an ele since the start at first I was an aoe RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO with a smidgin of earth prot (armour of earth and one of my fav spells ward against melee). Ive played most well known ele builds and such and know I can change my build to suit any team (they need a water ele fine, fire fine, earth fine, air fine). so i have flexibility. however alot of eles i have seen stick with one type of build. ie air spiker, fire nuker. which is why ppl steriotype the eles and y ppl become tired of playing eles as they believe that they are easy and playing an ss necro is a lot easyer.

the thing is playing an ele is no longer an easy matter u have to think about wot u want to do and it seems a lot of ppl would rather not. I admit I got bored of eles and went and did other things. But I have always come back to my ele.

also as was mentioned about the warder I have played one several times most of which I was turned down. I had a good run tho with one team we nearly got to the hall. Infact we only lost as the ghostly hero died due to ganking and been boxed in a corner.

so I have one thing to say EXPERIMENT WITH YOUR BUILDS and don’t rely on one tactic all the time keep switching. That’s the fun u get out of the game.

antialias02

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2005

Eastern Iowa

Forsaken Wanderers [FW]

Me/E

31 Jan 2006 at 17:16 - 65

Quote:

Originally Posted by LordDeArnise

Leave the "Spiteful Spirit" to the Curses Necro.

Not all mesmers need to have nukes, or a fast form of healing. My first mesmer build over the summer was a Me/N, and at the high-end places, which was ToA-UW and FoW at the time, and back then, when the AI wasn't as smart as they are now, a good Chaos Storm and Shatter Hex did some nice nuking, although I never felt a Curse Spell like Barbs would be very useful when hexing a foe.

Now that the AI are smarter, a mesmer has to rely on interrupts and spells like Empathy, Backfire, Blackout, etc. True, a good group can use a Mesmer with secondary Monk or Nuking abilities, but I see other potential with mesmers using other classes, since my latest mesmer build is a Me/R. Maybe Warrior for melee support and using Illusionary Weaponry, Ranger for a pet, maybe some form of self-healing, or fast-casting spirits or traps, or the aforementioned Necro curse that add damage when Barbed then hexed.

Player skills, people.

I was being sarcastic when I mentioned Spiteful Spirit, in case you did not notice the sarcasm denotation.

A good mesmer is worth his weight in gold in any group with the right skills. My point was more along the lines that most people don't understand how powerful a good mesmer really is. I know my build, and it's solid. I've tried out all kinds of things - pairing up the Mesmer with every class to see what I can get him to do, and the possibilities are numerous. The point is that the only people who understand those possibilities are - you guessed it - other Mesmers......

Until recently, of course. There are those who see the virtue in asking a Mesmer along to FoW, but there are still too many Mesmers to fill the demand. I only go to FoW in my Guild group now because it's the only group I know for 100% will take me.

Also, regarding the 5 Man Group again: A typical "5 Man" group involves a certain kind of build setup that most people who run it are familiar with. And there's no room for a Main Mesmer in that "mindset." I'm not saying it couldn't happen that a Mesmer finds his way into a 5 Man farm (I managed it once), but you won't see people going "OMG LFG Mes for 5 Man."

From a good amount of playing experience, the mesmer is powerful but underrated. You seemed to have been implying that even I did not understand what a Mes was good for, which would be an incorrect assumption on your part. I'm just tired of having it take 20 -30 minutes to find any group with my Mesmer that would take 2 with my Monk.

Quote:

Oh, and I always laugh when I see an interrupt mesmer who uses backfire

Either you interrupt, or you let the spell complete and do 150 dmg...you can't do both!

I run a Domination Mesmer build sometimes that includes Backfire. As Kook mentioned, the discerning Mesmer will throw it on a Monk or Necro before returning to a primary target. It's not out of the question for a Dom Mes to carry it with an interrupt build, if used correctly.

Raptox

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Oct 2005

Huntington Station, NY

Une Annee Sans Lumiere [UASL]

E/Me

31 Jan 2006 at 18:07 - 66

I'm using all Mesmer skills on my Ele right now. It's just more fun.

I know I can't use Mesmer runes, which kinda stinks, but I seem to be doing fine even on the energy management front. Guilt and Shame are essential, and Energy Storage certainly doesn't hurt.

I like the flexibility of the E/Me combo. You can really play any possibility well.

draxynnic

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Nov 2005

[CRFH]

01 Feb 2006 at 02:29 - 67

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacD

Oh, and I always laugh when I see an interrupt mesmer who uses backfire

Either you interrupt, or you let the spell complete and do 150 dmg...you can't do both!

Guilty.

I don't do it with a pure interrupt build, however, but I do do it occasionally when the enemy has a couple of little spells that they spam backed up with something big - the Backfire punishes them for the little spells that aren't worth interrupting, but when they start casting the big, nasty, long-casting-time spell that just shouts "Interrupt Me!" you don't have to just sit there and watch that bar fill up...

R_Frost

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jan 2006

California

Me/

01 Feb 2006 at 02:58 - 68

Ele's arent bad just people playing them terrible which is probably the cause for the drop off. i dont have a primary Ele but my Mesmer and Ranger both have Ele for a secondary. getting my warrior through the lower levels has at times been difficult due to Ele's that still havent learned to leave firestorm off their skills or casting it at the wrong time. its a real pain to try and fight 3 or 4 at once and just as your ready to cyclone axe the group a firestorm comes raining in. i had a primary Ele for a bit but just never came to like it after being spoiled buy the Mesmer's fastcasting. i may try one again sometime but i need to finish my warrior and necro first to go along with my lvl 20 Ranger, Monk and Mesmer

sh4ft3d

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2005

A long time ago, in a galaxy far far away...

Frank Ought To Monk [FotM]

W/

01 Feb 2006 at 03:36 - 69

IMO eles are, and will always be one of the best support classes, as will mesmer. The point of eles is not just to deal massive amounts of damage. As you can see from reading other posts on this topic, eles are much more versatile than that. My favorite skill set is all taken from the earth and domination skill sets. With the right attributes, a geomancer can tank much more effectively than any warrior can. (armor of earth, obsidian flesh, magnetic aura with glyph of renewal, all the while with channeling and earth attunement). With those stats at 16 earth, nothing can touch you.
EDIT: my bad. channeling is from inspiration

Avarre

Bubblegum Patrol

Join Date: Dec 2005

Singapore Armed Forces

01 Feb 2006 at 05:12 - 70

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ayres_Spellbinder

I play a Mes/E. I've used it alot as an Echo Nuker. Ppl see a Mes and say you cannot huke because you don't have 16 in fire. To this I say bs. There's something I have that Ele's don't, it's called fast casting. Then they say I don't have enough energy to be effective, to that I say bs as well.

No... just no.

12 fire spells hurt about as much as wand attacks in high-end pvp. Fast casting isn't even a consideration (oh noes, a 2/3 second fireball instead of a 1s fireball?).

Me/E for direct elemental damage is, in my opinion, one of the most worthless classes, because you'd even have more use as a domination nuker. And I've played just about every form of mesmer there is.

In PvE that is... in PvP fastcast nukers have some merits, I suppose.

Eles are dying out of some PvE.. I'd always like a decent air spiker to help with shadow monks, but thats a severe depreciation of a class with many capabilities.

Bleidd

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Aug 2005

E/Me

01 Feb 2006 at 05:48 - 71

Quote:

Originally Posted by antialias02

Also, regarding the 5 Man Group again: A typical "5 Man" group involves a certain kind of build setup that most people who run it are familiar with. And there's no room for a Main Mesmer in that "mindset." I'm not saying it couldn't happen that a Mesmer finds his way into a 5 Man farm (I managed it once), but you won't see people going "OMG LFG Mes for 5 Man."

You pretty much hit the nail on the head with this one I think. There isn't room for anyone not falling into category XYZ. Its like a certain element of the playerbase seems to only run with what works and God forbid they might have to attempt something that hasn't been already posted on a message board. Its ironic in a way, given the absolute joke that are death penalties in this game.

My other character is a Warrior, and I only play him with my friend's Mesmer. I know firsthand how fast things drop with a capable Mesmer in the group. It seems to be the same case for my Geomancer; whenever I get her in a group everyone switches into "we kick so much ass"-mode, as if they're blissfully unaware as to what all those flashing lights I'm dropping are doing for us. Its not an ego thing; I'm not asking for personal recognition. But in the case of Mesmers and support Elementalists, it'd be nice if it was a little more... I dunno, more of a known thing to people, what they're bringing to the group.

Plague

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2005

N/E

01 Feb 2006 at 06:09 - 72

Depends on the area you're in. With mobs, I'm not fond of having mesmers around just because they're excellent at one on one, but aren't really the best at raping mobs with most builds. But, if I'm heading into something like, say, Abaddon's Mouth, sure, they're probably the best thing to cart around next to a monk.

Elementalists though... I'm not fond of playing them to begin with, with all the useful spells requiring 25 energy and causing exhaustion and all that. Having one in my group is usually a no-no since "nukers" STILL want to use AoE spells. Why no one uses Flame Burst, Phoenix, Fireball, etc to do a very high amount of damage to tight groups I'll never know. It's like Firestorm is their security blanket that they refuse to let go of.

Lady Lozza

Forge Runner

Join Date: Dec 2005

Oz

Angel Sharks

Me/N

01 Feb 2006 at 06:27 - 73

OMG lol and I thought I was the only one

I've been running a RI build with my ele since the AoE changes and no one will have me in a group except for my guild because they WILL FAIL without an echo/renewal MS. It doesn't matter how much success I've had with my build, that I never need energy, or that I never get exhausted. Apparently I'm not effective enough without being an echo/renwal MS nuker

Same thing with mesmers, you have to be e-surge because that does damage. Doesn't matter that there are other builds out there which do things which help the GROUP take down the enemy faster, like the nasty, nasty condition spreading builds.

Once again necros are in the same boat, SS or MM. Period.

I think the problem lies in the fact that players seem to want to be 1337 asap rather than taking the time to learn what the skills do and the best way to use them. Just look at all the people in town begging for money, they don't want to farm because it takes too long, and all sorts of other excuses.

Sadly I think the crux of the issue is that the general maturity level of the players in GW is ridiulously low (in spite of the average player age). Most players just don't seem to understand that it is a GAME, something you do in your free time because it is fun and (supposedly) relaxing.

Now, when making a team, the things I am wary against is:

1) Players in a rush
2) Players who want a certain team build
3) Players who complain about certain professions
4) Players who use "noob", or too much 1337 speak
5) Players who boast
6) Players who want to know guild standing or rank
7) Players who refuse to take res
8) Players who refuse to talk about skills and general group integration
9) Players who don't respond to a question directed at them

These apply equally to PvP and PvE, and following these rules I (generally) end up in a fun-loving, fairly well co-ordinated and successful team.

antialias02

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2005

Eastern Iowa

Forsaken Wanderers [FW]

Me/E

01 Feb 2006 at 06:44 - 74

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

No... just no.

12 fire spells hurt about as much as wand attacks in high-end pvp. Fast casting isn't even a consideration (oh noes, a 2/3 second fireball instead of a 1s fireball?).

Me/E for direct elemental damage is, in my opinion, one of the most worthless classes, because you'd even have more use as a domination nuker. And I've played just about every form of mesmer there is.

In PvE that is... in PvP fastcast nukers have some merits, I suppose.

Eles are dying out of some PvE.. I'd always like a decent air spiker to help with shadow monks, but thats a severe depreciation of a class with many capabilities.

I use my Me/E as a fastcast nuker with twin attunements all the time in PvE when I feel like being a damage-dealer, as a bit of a change of pace. It's effective if you can run it well. And if the attunement strips, no big. Just disengage when you can and slap it back on.

Whereas in PvP, if that attunement strips, you're far more likely to drop. And it's far more likely to strip in PvP than in PvE anyway. I dunno. All I'm saying is don't knock it until you've tried it. The Fire Cannon build is quite powerful in both realms of play.

Kook~NBK~

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2005

A little chalet outside Drok's

Natural Born Killaz

01 Feb 2006 at 06:47 - 75

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Lozza

Now, when making a team, the things I am wary against is:

1) Players in a rush
2) Players who want a certain team build
3) Players who complain about certain professions
4) Players who use "noob", or too much 1337 speak
5) Players who boast
6) Players who want to know guild standing or rank
7) Players who refuse to take res
8) Players who refuse to talk about skills and general group integration
9) Players who don't respond to a question directed at them

These apply equally to PvP and PvE, and following these rules I (generally) end up in a fun-loving, fairly well co-ordinated and successful team.

Nice list, to which I would add "Players who use profanity in chat." and "Players who are bossy."

Barinthus

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2005

California

(TRUE)

R/Me

01 Feb 2006 at 06:56 - 76

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Lozza

1) Players in a rush
2) Players who want a certain team build
3) Players who complain about certain professions
4) Players who use "noob", or too much 1337 speak
5) Players who boast
6) Players who want to know guild standing or rank
7) Players who refuse to take res
8) Players who refuse to talk about skills and general group integration
9) Players who don't respond to a question directed at them

Amen!

And kudos to players who are willing to attempt 'abnormal' ways of playing their classes.

I'm a Water/Earth ele and I just love playing that combination. As an odd-ball player I have respect for fellow oddballs.

Keep it up and ignore those players who are stuck with the group mindset.

strcpy

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2005

One of Many [ONE]

01 Feb 2006 at 09:22 - 77

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bleidd

My other character is a Warrior, and I only play him with my friend's Mesmer. I know firsthand how fast things drop with a capable Mesmer in the group. It seems to be the same case for my Geomancer; whenever I get her in a group everyone switches into "we kick so much ass"-mode, as if they're blissfully unaware as to what all those flashing lights I'm dropping are doing for us. Its not an ego thing; I'm not asking for personal recognition. But in the case of Mesmers and support Elementalists, it'd be nice if it was a little more... I dunno, more of a known thing to people, what they're bringing to the group.

Support almost never gets what it needs. This is true in real life, even more so in game life. "Invisible" stuff is, well, invisible and no one notices.

If you work a large enough company ever compliment your System Administrator? Janitor? Or other support offices? Probably not - but they are what makes a company work vs not work. When they do thier jobs really well you will never see them, things will just be clean or your computer systems will just work. It's not uncommon to find companies that decide because they haven't had problem in the past you can drop/reduce those types of departments - never mind the reason you have had no problems is because they are well staffed. Of course, without those roles it's quickly felt and a smart group/company will understand this for the future.

If you choose to go that route (in professional life or gaming life) it's just something you have to learn to accept. You can usually show the unbelievers by pointing out how well things worked when you did you job, then not do it, and point out the difference. Some will get mad, but then that's not a group/company you want to do that role with and your better off without them.

Personally I enjoy the "support" classes. For one I like noticing that I'm frustrating an enemy player or shutting down a mob. Even my w/mo tends towards stances and more of a support type role. The other type I like is the Nuker, though the AOE change has made that somewhat less effective (it can still be done though, just not as big).

draxynnic

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Nov 2005

[CRFH]

01 Feb 2006 at 11:38 - 78

Quote:

Originally Posted by antialias02

I use my Me/E as a fastcast nuker with twin attunements all the time in PvE when I feel like being a damage-dealer, as a bit of a change of pace. It's effective if you can run it well. And if the attunement strips, no big. Just disengage when you can and slap it back on.

Whereas in PvP, if that attunement strips, you're far more likely to drop. And it's far more likely to strip in PvP than in PvE anyway. I dunno. All I'm saying is don't knock it until you've tried it. The Fire Cannon build is quite powerful in both realms of play.

Heh. That's much like what I do when my Me/E feels like playing her secondary, except I go lightning-cannon (Lightning Orb, Enervating Charge, and Lightning Strike) instead of fire cannon with a few utility spells from the Mesmer side (such as defensive mantras and the oh-no-I'm-not-letting-you-get-THAT-off interrupt I usually try to have loaded). Once she starts picking on something it usually goes down fast - and between Air Attunement and energy-regain skills such as Energy Drain, she can usually keep it up for a while.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plague

Elementalists though... I'm not fond of playing them to begin with, with all the useful spells requiring 25 energy and causing exhaustion and all that. Having one in my group is usually a no-no since "nukers" STILL want to use AoE spells. Why no one uses Flame Burst, Phoenix, Fireball, etc to do a very high amount of damage to tight groups I'll never know. It's like Firestorm is their security blanket that they refuse to let go of.

Well, I use Phoenix and Inferno, to devastating effect when I get to 'softer' targets, but then I use them on a W/E

. I guess Phoenix and Flame Burst require getting a leetle too close for the liking of most Elementalists... Still, Fireball and Rodgort's Invocation are quite respectable nuking options.

Oh well, Darwin's laws state that sooner or later they will either adapt or die off...

Avarre

Bubblegum Patrol

Join Date: Dec 2005

Singapore Armed Forces

01 Feb 2006 at 11:50 - 79

Quote:

Originally Posted by antialias02

All I'm saying is don't knock it until you've tried it. The Fire Cannon build is quite powerful in both realms of play.

*cough* I have tried it, that's where I get my fanatical hatred of it from. Conjure flame + wand = more damage than fastcast fire nuker, and against things with high armor (FoW etc) it is extremely apparent that you're basically a glorified wander.

In PvE, fast casting is not a requirement for nuking. In FoW, there are only 3 monsters that have interrupts (5 if you count knockdowns), and you should be holding the aggro of none as a mesmer.

Sure the build works. Conjure phantasm works. Mending works too. Gonna stop on that though because I'll never, ever stop fighting Me/E nukers, and it'll get spammy and out of point

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Lozza

Same thing with mesmers, you have to be e-surge because that does damage. Doesn't matter that there are other builds out there which do things which help the GROUP take down the enemy faster, like the nasty, nasty condition spreading builds.

Odd... I haven't used surge in PvE or organized PvP in several months, and I've never been asked to equip it by anyone.

coolsti

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2005

Denmark

01 Feb 2006 at 12:42 - 80

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tarkin

Mesmers have cool skills, i dont have a mesmer, but i love to use they skill like secondary, they have lotssssssssss of good skills, like Fevered Dreams, very niceeeeeeeeee, u can put -10 deg fast in all group of foes... but no one think, just copy, past builds from others... Mantra of Resolve, Channeling, Sympathetic Visage, Shatter Hex, here we have a mesmer nuker... weak against casters strong against brute force...
Sadly people just copy and past builds... well i happy play alone, or with my guild we use very very diferent strategys and have the same or better results and if someone want to play a mesmer we make a mesmer strategy, someone want play a necro? So many builds!
Dont blame a profession...

This thread is primarily about Elementalists, but I see a lot of responses focusing on Mesmers as well. I've noticed that very very very few, if any, advertisements for party members in the new Tombs area are directed to Mesmers. It is very easy to get into a group as Elementalist but I think it is near impossible as mesmer. And that is just too bad, because I have successfully completed this with my Mesmer + 7 henchies several times, and in friends groups with 2 Mesmers in the group. Currently my favorite is part anti-warrior (empathy, clumsiness, ineptitude) and part interrupter (power leak, power spike) along with chaos storm to spread the enemy when they get too close. This is a good build because empathy, clumsiness and ineptitude give good damage to spellcasters as well (they are attacking between spells).

I would so much like to do the new UW with my Mesmer with different Pug groups, but, alas, it seems too difficult to convince the masses to take a Mesmer along.