Rant About Rank

Sometimes I have a low noob tolerance and I don't have time to play 20 questions to find out whether the rank "2" guy is going to help the group, that is when I really like rank. Rank isn't a perfect metric of anything, but it filters enough "novices" or "noobs" to make a time constrained run more pleasurable.

I am willing to run with unranked teams and invite unranked players, but that will normally require vent, 20 questions about everyone's build familiarity and tutorials about maps and opposition every round. This isn't a bad thing, but it is a bit more stress than I'm always up for. If you have a we1k leader in an unranked group you are hopeless (this statement is true generally, but with obvious novices it is vital).

HA pugs without rank would be like a one room school house. Everyone is at a different place and the interaction helps some and hinders others. As it stands now we are in a 3-4 classroom system where the advanced people can focus of advanced learning and the beginner work with other beginners to jump ahead. Sometimes someone will drop down to the benefit of the lower group, but that is the exception not the norm. Like classrooms, there is much diversity of skill within each grade, but for the most part there is a clear distinction in quality. A first grader will never win the school wide science fair, nor should they expect to, but good placement among peer is expected. In HA you'll get draws that are way out of your league, but that is how you learn to some extent. I had a balance team that was talking trash after a win adn I was quick to remind them how we were owned not 15 minutes earlier by a team that outclassed us top down.

As stated 101 times, the best way to get a consistantly solid group is a strong friends list.

And you are the people who make this game unbearable at times.

Who says you are elite? Your rank? Don't take this the wrong way but don't flatter yourself. I don't know who you think you are proclaiming yourself an elitist, but you should come back from your little power trip.

And about your latter comment about...

I don't know if I can say this for everyone, but I know that when I am not playing guild wars, I am READING about it here. The newest builds, its functions, how to utilize its effectiveness and whatnot. I took a long break from this game and came back a few weeks ago.

If you asked me what a B/P Ranger was a week ago I'd stare at you blankly. Now a days? I do a tombs run at least once a day in B/P groups, and many of these groups look to me as a LEADER because I've conquered the organization of it, yet a week ago I didn't even know what one was.

I educate myself and I learn quickly.

I deserve a damn chance to PVP.

I've done nothing wrong to bring upon this segregation from super elitist ranked players.

Not to jump into the gunfight ... but I would like to post about one point of interest I recently noticed ...

There are a few (yes, a few: not a staggering amount) of high-ranked players that won't group with people who are spamming about "must be rank xx, emote for invite" groups. I happened upon a guild group yesterday looking for a spike ranger, no mention of rank. I whispered the leader and told him that a Ranger was my first character ever, and I have alot of experience with using them in different ways.

I was invited to the group, told them my build, and we tweaked it a little bit for group balance. I mentioned beforehand that i'm not high rank, and if they had issue with that i'd rather just leave quietly rather than be the target for blame and "OMGNOOB"ing ... the leader laughed, and said they don't care about rank, and prefer not to group with such closed-minded people that won't give anyone a shot that's not ranked I was so surprised to hear this I nearly fell out of my chair at what happened next.

We joined the match against the unworthy (or Zaishen whatever you want to call them now) and I was saying how greatful I was to be given a chance with a guild group, even if it was unranked. The leader again said "don't put so much emphasis on rank, and you'll get it alot quicker than you think. Most of us are ranked, but we don't rub it in people's faces. We never emote in HA at all." I asked what rank they were, and they did their /rank ... not a soul under r6, most r9 ....

What's the moral of this story? These were all PvP veterans, and we played for about 2 hours and did quite well ... we had lots of fun! They were so anti-elitist it's not even funny! There are people with rank that are nice and willing to help, and my newfound friends have given me an aspiration to how to behave once I gain more rank and fame. I will not disappoint.

Now go back to flaming, I suppose

Just a note here, I really only play IWAY because It's one of the only ways to get into groups. I'm not saying its impossible to find groups any other way, but it surely is hard, and a minority at that. Like I said, I played very early in the games release, then stopped playing for a while. When I came back I was like "IWAY who?".

But thats the way the world works sometimes, you have to change to your surroundings.

imo here is the difference between unranked and r3

unranked-lots of questions about if u know how to play the game and what skills u r using, but in the end u will probably lose after 1 or 2 wins when u fight a r6+ team

r3-very few question beyond "emote" and "spirit check", but in the end its same as unranked when it comes to fighting good r6+ teams

You're not making it any more bearable with that kind of comments either.

I didn't say I am elite. And you're the one asking for my rank before judging me (rank 10 by the way, my guild played in the GWWC regionals and those kinds of stuff). And the argument I've explained here is the same thing I say when I get PMs asking for group, because I do get PMs of that type.

You have educated yourself, you have learned quick, you run at least once a day in B/P groups. You do own a damn chance to PvP and you're executing it everyday. Let's go back to topic please.

It was you who went to district lfg. It was you who got into a group. It was you who remade a character for that group. It was you who re-logged and went into that party. It was you who played with that group. It's all a matter of personal choice, you don't see people questioning your choices, however, you question other people's choices and ask them to change. I'd say No thanks.

And you did something I like, you admitted it's hard to find groups any other way and I agree. That's a good start.

I had a funny thought, wouldn't it be hilarious if they actually got rid of the skill I will avenge you? LOL

I think you misinterpreted what I said, I wasn't asking for your rank, I was asking you if thats why/how you proclaim yourself elitist.

Well I just dont think its fair to all the new people coming up to be not included in learning how to do hoh. I'm rank 6 but i try not to go into ranked groups because i want every1 who's new to hoh to have a chance....
Who knows you might find one of the best hoh'ers out there...

For the original poster, here's my advice: find a guild of mature people who understand the game.

They may take you despite your rank. In fact, your lack of rank may become an asset. It means you are more able to learn and follow orders. And in Heroes, that's far more important than a silly measure of how much you've played and how lucky you've been.

Once you get Rank 3 you can either stick with your guild (good idea) or go freelancer. Most groups will take Rank 3.

The big thing is:

teamwork - rank based arrogance > high rank stacking

You just have to hobble along till you get rank 3, thats what I did and it took a month , but everyone has to pay their dues. Get with unranked teams and grow together get on each others friends list. You all will get r3/r6 together, don't whine about not getting in ranked groups when you dont want to group with people of your own rank r0-r2, thats like saying you won't take yourself. You just have to roll with a 10-20 percent win rate until you claw your way up. Its no ones job to baby and nurture you, if you cant grind out a measley 180 fame you never gonna be a competitor any way cause you got no heart and no motivation. Just find some r0-r2 buddies and have fun together while you earn your r3. Set a small goal like 5 fame per day, it wont be so painful with good company.

Also, there has been an snobbery elite probelm in HOH long before rank and emotes, people are blaming rank for holding them back but it is allowing people to get in groups more so than anything else. It was horrible before rank to get into a decent group if you didn't know someone. The rank is more generic and universal and ultimately more fair. People who complain about rank haven't been playing long enough to know it solved alot of probelms. I'm a PvE'r and could never get a group in tombs before rank now when im bored with PvE I can go to HoH flash an emote and get a good grp because I earned it. Not be ostracised because I dont know anyone because I just PvP every blue moon. Anet did good with the rank and they did good with fixing the Dragons Lair trick, where they would ditch the PvE'rs. Things were much worse without rank, because the n00b treatment was insurmountable for a casual pvp'r trying to catch a PUG. Its never been a bed of roses for a on that side of the game.

The main problem for unranked players is not really that they can't get into higher ranked groups. It's also not really that they don't win many games except on Underworld map.

The main problem still is - as has been mentioned before - the fact that it takes WAAAAYYY too long to set up a group (unranked or ranked). It wouldn't matter so much getting slaughtered 60-70% of all times if you just could enter HA, get into a group and start fighting. Getting to Rank 3 is not THAT difficult, but you only can gain fame if you're winning games and you only can win games by starting to fight. You can't gain fame by standing around in HA and yelling LFG (or GLF for that matter). The next problem for unranked players is that they ALL are considered as being Rank 0. Even if they have 175 fame and have seen every map including HoH. The rank system itself is a good idea, by the way. It helps that people of roughly equal experience can form groups together. If there was no system like that, people would only accept people from their friends list or guild into their groups. Which would be even worse than with the current system.

As for the "get into a PvP guild" suggestion: Well, many people don't even want to be in a PvP guild (let alone the fact that many PvP guilds won't take unranked players, either). HA is not meant to be another version of GvG. It should be accessible for individual players, too.

So, my suggestions to deal with the current hassle in HA would be these:

- Create an in-game group forming system (I like the "bulletin board" idea mentioned above) to help players find a group more quickly. This is THE main problem with HA right now!!!
- Introduce a Rank 1 emote (this could help players who won the first couple of games to form ranked teams themselves)
- Introduce a training area like the Zaishen Challenge, but with all the HA maps. Provide a special emote for those who completed the whole challenge. This way people could show that they have seen the maps and know how a relic run works and such.
- Provide a way to better organize the Friends list. This is especially an issue for those of us not in a PvP guild. I find it harder and harder to keep track of all my contacts ("why did I write down this guy again???")...
- Make premade PvP characters to fit the most popular FotM builds (IWAY, Ranger Spike, Dualsurge etc..). This way, new players could start into PvP with a build which is known to work...

For those cry babies who can't beat IWAY .. boo hoo!!
I will say this again and again ...
IWAY is very easy to be beaten .. IWAY doesn't have the power to hold Halls
IF you cant beat IWAY ... I say you're team isn't strong enough or YOU are NOOB! .. yeah you heard me.

just because you dont have an emote doesnt mean u have to talk @#% about IWAY .. I've gotten more Fame running balance builds with guildies and friends than playing IWAY .. and I'm rank 7.

and please UNDERSTAND that ... for those who hopes that can win halls by getting some random PUGs .. stop dreaming !!
YOU NEED REAL BUILD.. and iway is a build..
be creative and know who u playin with.. be on vent ..etc.
Just like playing GvG .. you need STRATEGY .. you cant just run off kill ghostly right away .. and I see that often from fighting PUGs teams.
There's basicly tons of builds that u can do after u unlocked all your skills ..
so dont have little faith young grasshopper.. .. go watch the observance mode .. and see what build is the team running in Halls with .. most of the time is BALANCE build and not IWAY ..
so if you're not running iway and lose in underworld .. guess what.. fix your build or try again !! and stop crying just because u dont have bambi or wolfie.
Those ppl with rank deserve their rank really well .. cuz they play alot and they've also started from r0 .. and dont assumed everybody above r4 ran iway .. no no no .. back in the days .. ppl ran spirit spammer and air spike.
for an example *sorry for using name* ..
Alice in Wonderland .. they held halls for HOURS .. and they've gained 2000+Fame in total from running Balance build ..*NOT IWAY*
this proves that if you really know what ur doin .. iway is a piece of cake.
just like GvG .. I'm pretty sure War Machine really know their maps and tactics


/ragequit

Isn't rank an individual metric? Wouldn't it make more sense to measure an individual's skill when they're part of a smaller team?

It's a lot easier to have success as a bad player (monk excluded) in an 8 person team than a 4 person team.

I don't know if ANet intended rank to be a measure of skill or a measure of time played. The way it is currently designed it seems to be a better measure for time played, but the community is using it as a measure of skill/knowledge because it's available and it's a lot faster than trying to communciate a person's knowledge via chat.

Or maybe ANet never intended for rank to be a measure of anything, but rather a minor/cosmetic reward for participating in Heroe's Ascent...

Rank issues. Taken from a past post.
Several ideas.

Have different HoH ladders, Rank 0-2, Rank 3+ Rank 9+
Each of the 3 HoH ladders merges back into one Ladder once players reach The center Mists maps (gold maps)


Allow fame to be gained from Random Arena up to rank 3. <random 4 vs 4>
Allow fame to be gained from Team Arena up to Rank 6 <aranged 4 vs 4>
Allow fame to be gained from <random 8 vs 8> up to Rank 9
Allow fame to be gained from <aranged 8 vs 8> up to Rank 12
Allow fame to be gained from GvG up to Rank 15 <Guild 8 vs 8>
Allow fame to be gained from Tombs up to Rank 15
Allow fame to be gained from Winning the HoH above Rank 15


Record statistics for Account and character progress.

IMHO fame should stay in HA. Fame was not suppose to be EASY to get. I like that it is a unique reward you get from winning battles on a very certain set of maps.

I think one of the major problems in HA is that many gamers simply do not understand what rank means, and what it DOESN'T mean.
Rank makes it easier to form PUGs that might actually have a chance of winning their way to halls because they have - more than likely - seen all the maps, and are familiar with various strategies for winning the various maps. Rank does not mean that they will win their way to halls, rank does not mean they are better players, rank does not mean they can play any build in any team.
HA is a TEAM GAME. Many of the groups that play their are GUILD GROUPS, or groups of friends who game together religiously. With most of these groups the largest requirement is not rank, but rather having Vent or TS, and being able to build a character that will fit into the team that has already been assembled. An unranked player who knows their skills is 1000 times better than a ranked player who doesn't. An unranked player on TS is a better addition to the team than a ranked player who is not. A rank 9 who has played nothing but IWAY in HA is often next to useless when they reroll to play in a balanced team. Similarly ranked players who have never played IWAY can be useless in an unranked IWAY team.

The problem most players (ranked and unranked) seem to have is that they believe that rank makes you uber-1337, invinci, and therefore it is NEVER their fault when they loose, and having lost they think their rank is a licence to behave badly by flaming the lower ranked members of the team. Anyone who has even a shred of maturity or insight knows this is not the case. Once again I state that HA is a TEAM GAME. If the team fails EVERYONE is at fault. You don't rage quit simply because you don't win, you keep trying, you keep working at it. This is the major difference between guild teams and most PUGs (ranked or not). Guild members - generally - do not rage quit because something went wrong. Math, Alice, and co. do not always get to halls the first time they do the run. If you've ever used the observer mode (at the appropriate time) before you might have noticed that sometimes Math can't get past the first few maps. But sure enough they try again and again. Most PUGs - and honestly I've found it worse in ranked teams - have at least ONE quitter every time the team suffers a loss, meaning they have to hang around HA finding new members before they can do another run, and THAT is time consuming.

Those who complain that their guild is inactive, or they don't have enough members I honestly have no sympathy for. If you wish to PvP and don't like the "politics" involved with PUGs, find another guild which is active and PvPs. Your guild is YOUR CHOICE. No one said you had to be loyal to a guild which provides you with nothing that you want or need.
I believe that alliances in the new chapter will help small guilds with this problem, of course the problem is that you have to actually negotiate an alliance, but how difficult do you think that will be? Use your friends list, get talking to the leaders of your friends' guilds and find out all you can about the type of players and the type of things they do. You don't even have to wait for Factions. My guild merged with another guild during the xmas break, we did this because the core players of our guild had been gaming with the core players of their guild nearly since the beginning of GW. The merge doubled the size of our guild and we now have to knock players back when we advertise for GvG and PvP.

And those of you who don't wish to be a part of a guild... Well they don't call it Guild Wars for nothing.

yes I agree with Lady Lozza ..
FAME should only be gained thru HoH only .. because 8 ppl match difficulty is different from a 4 ppl match. You have to be more orginized.
If you really pay attention .. those ppl that held halls .. they either knew each other really well .. or they're in the guild. Seldom I see some PUGs win halls .. unless at some weird hours where the population census is low.
Also ppl that ran IWAY in HoH and held halls .. those are the same ppl that suffered 5-6 months ago trying hard days and night to get better.
I say rank also shows that u've been thru lots of losses and winning.
so no pain no gain.

I understand the frustrations here, as I employ people in real life also, I come across the same problem.

I've employed people with many many qualifications and and performed well at interview, but this doesnt seem to be a very good factor to rely upon!

However, someone with very few qualifications and is maybe a little nervous in an interview works harder! trys harder, is more motivated, loves his job, dont seem to get so stressed about things... a perfect recruit!... It seems that just because your good at passing tests and exams doesnt mean your good in a real work envoiroment.

The problem I see here is that the only way to prove ANYTHING about your pvp ability is this damn R3 emote!.. its like a Masters degree.. part of an elite club!... which is wrong because as people have said in this post R3 people can be just as poor as rank 0 !

So please give us some other way of proving our capabilities.

For example, a way of advertising, or making known to other players things like:-

- How many total faction points you've gained!
- How many flawless wins you've had in TA, or CA.
- An emote for ranks 1 and 2... maybe not a big glowy flashy think just, a unique Hand gesture?
- There are other stats... how many hours days and months you've been playing GW for..
- What rank is the guild that your part of
- Have you completed the game even?
- How many skills unlocked?
- How many Elite skills unlocked?

im sure there are MANY other things.

Not only would this give people a more individual feeling about their character but it would give them _acheivable_ goals which provides that valuble motivation, giving them something to be proud of.

Nearly every game I know, you can find detailed information about the players around you... in Guildwars the only thing you can know for sure is Rank, or no Rank.. it clearly splits people into two categories!

This dividing of your players is what causes the problem.

The only way your going to solve this 'Rankism' is to blur the lines.

Yep I experienced this as well, with all of my lvl20 pve chars of course. Rank sucks bigtime because although I'm pve and I probably do not know all the pvp tricks I'm pretty sure I'm a hell of a lot better then any starting pvp char, just because I spend endless hours playing with the char I know what the skills are, how they work etc.

I also think this wipes out Anet's idea that finished pve chars can continue happely in pvp.

Other then that, pvp does not seem to be about the amount of true skill you have, it seems to be about a certain build that any noob can read from the internet. With that noob build you can actually win many matches, gaining faction points and rank but in the end you are still the noob that can only play 1 build, so sad.

Combine that with the rediculous amount of people actually thinking rank means something and voila, a ruined pvp IMO.

After entering pvp in former tombs and literally waisting hours on end to enter a team I quit the idea that pvp could be something I would like to do in this game.

My wish; that faction points would be left out of the game alltogheter. If peeps want a high skilled group they should make one among known friends ingame or start a pvp guild or something.

I played HoH before all the rank shit but this didn't count obviously, I'm still r0 now because when I tried to join pvp again (after a short brake from GW) all shit about ranks was going on.

Like I said someone who played IWAY all the time is a pretty useless player IMO and doesn't deserve to be choosen over someone who actually tried many different builds and actually knows what the skills in your skillbar do or don't do.

The fact that skilled persons have to wait endlessly to be entered in a team nowadays compared to a total noob that can show of his silly r3+++ crap makes me turn around and run away screaming!!!.

I'm no idiot, I can actually whatch and see what spells etc are cast on me (I dare to bet many r3++ dudes don't even know what the icons top-left mean), what kind of foes I counter, what position I should take and how to attack, run or defend when needed. I also played on all maps before so I know the lay-out. I'm willing to listen to certain team strategies etc.

Conclusion; take the rank crap out of the game and make pvp a fun experience again. Those who feel to good; play with your uber friends and/or join/make a pvp guild.

But Rank DOES give you something to be proud of.. something to acheive, a Goal..

Yes this would solve the problem, but the fun factor wouldnt last very long.. you need SOMETHING to spur you on, a motivation.. by taking rank out completly you remove the only real acheivable thing which makes you stand out from others.

And ANET arnt the kind of people to simply remove something

And you can't do that now becaauuuse.....? See, this is what people should be doing NOW, but for whatever reason, they expect to type in "Warrior LFG" and get a group instantly and beat all the other teams.

OK, yes, there are problems that need to be fixed, but all this whining is a bit too much. Some people really need to consider what they are doing wrong and what expectations they have that are unreasonable. Try to make your own group, jump in a random team, talk to the people requiring ranked players, tell them your skillbar, learn to play the maps, get better, talk to the people on your team, make some friends who are good, play with these friends as they come online, talk with the people on your team, get even better, and on and on.

I think the biggest reason for all this whining is that IWAY made it waaay too easy to get faction and all the people who don't want to play IWAY are leering jealously at all the IWAY people and are thinking 'if they can get fame so quickly, why can't I?' But the bigger reason IWAY is so successfull is that it requires very minimal interaction between the players. You basically jump in and whack at things with your axe and your teammates do the same. I'm willing to bet that people who got their rank before IWAY came in did so because they formed a list of friends who knew each other and knew what each player was good at.

So part of the problem is that people are far too anti-social at this point to talk to other players properly and work out a plan or strategy or build to play. Of course, this is a big problem on the internet generally. So try using Ventrilo. People can be MUUUUCH bigger asses when they're typing something in chat, but when you're actually speaking to each other, everything suddenly changes, and for the better. Everybody becomes more accomodating, more reasonable. Maybe try talking to a group on Ventrilo for 5 or 10 minutes before you jump in a match; again, work out some sort of strategy, discuss what each player is good at and just generally get better at teamwork.

Although, surely after the GWWC IWAY will be nerfed (along with ranger spike), if only to get people out of the 'you gotta play THIS build to win quickly' mentality. And a better group-matching mechanic can't hurt either.

But in the end, people just have to adjust their expectations. The players on your team aren't henchmen. You're dealing with other human beings, and sometimes you have to have some social skills.

/rant

yup thats the only thing holding me back from HoH. I mean i dont blame some of the ppl for wanting ppl with fame, some ppl just ruin it for every1 thats unranked when they join a IWAY team with exactly none of the right skills. I i know the maps and i know wut im doing, i have more faction than most ppl there. Only thing i haven't had as much experience in as them is standing around all day in ToPK just to get a semi-good group. So im eternally stuck in GvG. Hopefully there will be a new way to earn fame in these faction wars.

I honestly just can't believe this has turned into, "I'm not rank (x), and everyone who is rank (x) is supposed to oblige to me". This is getting out of hand, some people IWAYed to their rank, some spirit spam, some smiteball, but they ALL worked for it. Everyone must find their niche.

On another note, PVP is vastly more complex than PVE, there is no jump, no comparisons, being good at PVE means absolutely NOTHING in pvp. Period.

If you are rank 0, guess what, you deserve it, and every other rank for that matter. Even though IWAY has somewhat ruined that to an extent, its still the way it is, and everyone 'ranting' is just fighting a lost cause, the good will never oblige to the bad players, the rich will never oblige to the poor, this is how life is.

quoted for truth. It works the other way too. For example i know i can play a decent gale/shock axe warrior but if i was asked to tank mobs in the pve tombs i wouldnt know where to start.

When I started playing GW my first PvE char was a monk, I played over 400hrs on that char actually monking, before I actually did solo farming. I had unlocked and used EVERY monk skill and had played virtually every type of build in PvE. But according to your statement I would be around the same level as someone who has played pvp for a week or less w/o pve experience. So in my opinion you are wrong, the pvp aspects of monking are slightly different, but in the end you are still trying to keep your team alive. At the time I may of not thought of icon swapping to hide energy or a few other small techniques but surely I did a better job then many of the new pvp monks. Also ive found it that many of the builds I had tested and used in pve I still use today in pvp, my healing builds worked then(at r0) that still work at r6(my current rank). Any 'good' monk in PvE understands energy management and who the prioties to keep alive are in given situations.

As far is rank is concerned, I think it is fine the way it is. If you want to get it, make freinds and then form a guild. If you absolutely must have rank and are too lazy to join/form a guild just do iway before its nerfed. It seems to me that rank is slightly scewed though, someone with little knowledge of 8v8 battles that just did iway to get there rank seem to know very little compared to people who got rank by other means. In the end you are just hurting yourseld by running iway IF you are new to 8v8 battles.

PvE monking is basicaly healing the tank with a lot of pure heals. PvP monking is far more complex. Also if you play with good teams in pve you would never have energy issues.

Well it seems a little silly for you to expect to be taken into a ranked group considering you have such little experience in pvp. I mean you just won't know what to do if you've never done it before, thats just a fact.

Anet p***ed me off along time ago so I dont talk in pvp posts much because I get wound up but yes I agree with the OP. If you dont have some crappy emote which most (I say most, not all) players got from the same lame builds anyway and your guild doesnt pvp you are screwed. You get degraded to waiting ages and joining crap groups. The system is BS, this is why I dont pvp anymore.

I like how people bitch about not having rank, and the majority of them are the ones who also bitch about how IWAY sucks and this and that.


Hey, ever thought of, oh, I don't know, STARTING an unranked group? Yeah? I did that with some fotm builds a while ago, started learning the maps, how to lead, etc.....

Don't think you can sit in town and wait for someone to just whisper you thinking you're the next best thing--- it's NOT going to happen! If you don't put the effort out to at least try you're going to get nowhere! And if you don't want to use iway or rspike or whatever flavor is consuming halls, well... forget about not wanting to and do it! These builds usually force little to no room for improvisions -- so even an unranked group can get the hang of it after a while.

Have you ever played monk in a PUG in pve? Try it and I promise you very seldom does the tank control the aggro. Even before the AoE nerf the average PUG was full of idiots with no sense of aggro control. My point is that more times then not every one is taking damage. If you play with a good team then clearly energy should never be a problem. Better yet try monking in FoW with a team that has no sense of aggro control. Honestly I dont think pvp monking is all that more complex than pve monking. Other than basicly learning how to hide your energy and countering hexes theres no real difference. If you havent learned who are priorites on healing should still be monking in pve. Things like strafing back and forth against rangers, and moving out of AoE should all be learned in pve.

Don't get sarcastic Juicey, you ever think we've tried? These unranked people are easily left with a bad taste in their mouth after PVP. I've tried many-a-time to start a group, and it usually goes under because we can't find unranked people period. Ranked people generally don't care for our type of groups.

Its amazing how some people get so defensive when their fame is threatened.

Even Gaile said that the rank system was not meant to cause this segregation.

PS: We aren't "bitching" about not having rank, we are "bitching" about not getting to PVP because we don't have rank, or at least not rank 3.

Well I'm going to try not to rant, but...

What are the problems with rank?
1) People seem to think it makes them leet, it doesn't.
2) People seem to think it is an excuse for flaming lower ranks, it isn't.
3) People seem to think it entitles them to win halls, it doesn't.

So what is really the problem here??? PEOPLE SEEM TO THINK IT DOES/MEANS X. The problem is with how people think, not the system.
I'm not saying that it is a perfect. There is no such thing as a perfect system but before you fly off the hook about how Anet has ruined your PvP experience, think about why rank exists in the first place - not what people have MADE it.

I've seen so many people posting about how IWAY has ruined tombs (HA), that IWAY should be nerfed, that it is a noob build, that rank means nothing if you played IWAY to get there, that only people who have played IWAY have high rank, etc. So let us clear a few things up:

1) Rank doesn't mean much, we all know that, but it does mean that you've played a lot so you know the maps, and you know the build(s) you usually play. Most ranked people actually know what the skills in their build do, they might not know much outside that but I can garantee you they know how their build works. This does not mean that they will necessarily work well in any random PUG.
2) IWAY is a PUG build, not a noob build. There is a distinct difference.
3) IWAY is beatable. You can beat it with balanced, you can beat it with spike. You can beat it with an unranked team. It is not hard. Because it is beatable the chances of it getting nerfed are LOW.
4) If you play IWAY you must not know anything about the game. Wrong, you know how to play IWAY. In fact if you play nothing but IWAY all the way to rank 12 I would say that you are pretty good at playing IWAY. You might not know much about anything else but I would certainly listen to your advice regarding IWAY (and similar) skills and builds.
5) Rank is cheapened by IWAY. What about smiteballs? Spikes? VIM? Do these cheapen rank too? IWAY is beatable. Period.
6) Not all players with rank have played IWAY, some have gone spike, and even balanced.

So why do you all complain about IWAY? You get beaten easily by it, but that is not the problem of IWAY, that is your problem. IWAY is a good PUG, that is what it is designed for. If you are in a balanced team or a spike you HAVE TO HAVE GOOD COMMUNICATION. In IWAY you don't. This is what makes it a good, quick team build. IWAY takes a team game and turns it into more of a 1v1 game: you do what you do and I do what I do. That doesn't make it any more or less sporting than any other team, and it certainly doesn't make it invinci.

NEWSFLASH: RANK ISN'T SUPPOSE TO BE EASY TO GET!

You hate PvP because you can't get into a decent balanced team, but evidently you don't want to work at it, and - for whatever reason - you don't want to play IWAY. In short you are lazy and unmotivated. Many players have sucked it in and played IWAY to the ranked levels because they knew they couldn't get a decent unranked non-IWAY PUG without it, or didn't want to wait around for hours on end to find one. They were willing to go the distance, they were willing to do something about it. If you refuse to make things better for yourself how can you expect that others will wave their wands and give you paradise?

NEWSFLASH: HALLS ISN'T SUPPOSE TO BE EASY TO WIN!

If you choose not to play IWAY, not to play FREQUENTLY with friends or guildies (focusing on one or two team builds), refuse to use vent or TS, if you choose to avoid HA altogether that is your choice. But don't rant about how Anet has ruined PvP for you. You have ruined PvP for yourself.

Lady Lozza, this isn't a topic about me liking IWAY or not. This topic is about lower ranked people getting disregarded in PVP because of their rank. I only mentioned IWAY because it pertained to my story. And I don't hate PVP because I can't get into a balanced team, infact I don't hate PVP at all. I hate the super elitists who think that they are the cream of the crop and can just abuse/ignore the lowering ranked. I don't want my rank to be easy to get either, you are missing the entire part. I had so much fun back in the day when rank wasn't an issue. If they were looking for a party, and someone needed you, there was none of this "EMOTE PLZ" crap. We just all had fun playing, and winning! Now that rank is a huge factor, unranked/low ranked are excluded from an entire part of the game.

Lazy and unmotivated? Maybe after a half-hour/hour of spamming for a party and nothing you get a little discouraged and decide to do something else. If that makes me lazy and unmotivated then so be it.

Cecil, sorry if you though my rant was in response to your post, it was in response to a number of posts that have been made in this thread altogether.

Yes I know a lot of lower ranked players get disregarded and flamed in PvP because of their rank. I still put up with that sort of behaviour even though I have an emote. It was like back in the days when 15k armour was rare. Those who had it instantly thought it made them hot property, we all know that it doesn't.

If rank didn't exist there would still be elitist attitudes in HA but they would be distinguished by some other method, like: ONLY PLAYERS OF GUILDS IN TOP TEN. Things will NEVER be like they were back at the release of GW simply because there are so many more players now - who have come from other games - who have that elitist attitude. We can't change that. Anet can't change that. Yes this attitude makes the game less fun if you choose to pay attention to it. I don't. I stopped playing PUGs. I play with guildies and friends - with the occassional random - because I know what they are like to play with, I know I will have fun, win or loose.

If you choose not to play with friends or guildies, that is NOT Anet's problem, that is yours. The elitist attitude is not acceptable under any circumstances, but we choose whether we pay any attention to it or not.

I'd love to play with my Guild...It's just we are a PvE guild. We are great at it! I love my guildmates too, we are all very close...it's just we don't PVP. Yes that's fortunate for me, and yes I seek to change that, but for the time being I'll have to find other means.

Cecil, hopefully Factions and alliances will help you with that situation In the meantime work on your guildies, pvp is fun with friends, and there are only so many times you can beat the game before it gets a little repetitive.

I started reading this as a pure PvE player wanting to know more about rank emotes. I hit the search button, and this is the post that comes up. I’ve learned two things about getting that cool emote I want:
1 If I want the goodie, I have to get it from PvP; sucks for me since I’ve spent so much time in PvE building my characters, but like its been said, there are only so many times you can beat this game before it gets repetitive. While I’d love to see an emote to demonstrate just how experienced I am at PvE, that’s not Anets intention in making this, one of the premiere Competitive Online Role Playing Games. That’s what Santa hats and Pumpkin heads are for.
2 Its going to take a while. I’m going to have to relearn everything about my characters, because I’m not playing an idiot AI; I’m fighting humans (sigh. Again. I thought life got easier as you got older.). I’m going to have to relearn how to use my toons for different situations. It’s going to be hard; potential nerfs may throw everything I know out of kilter, but if I want that emote, I’ma hafta do it.
3 I don’t want to (I’ll have to, but I don’t want to) be playing with the vast majority of people who have replied to this thread and their ilk who turn any discussion about rank into an instant flame war.

I want it. Its there and I’m going to go get it. What’s your excuse? Never mind; we already know it: it’s going to be hard; it’s going to take a long time, and I’m not going to like a lot of it. To me, that’s not an excuse; that’s the challenge. And after I get it, it’s not going to change how good or bad a player I am. Does this mean I’ll have to suffer a few (or a whole lot of) r3+ people kicking me out before I’m done? Yep. Is it going to be frustrating because I have trouble finding decent groups without that rank I’m aiming for? You betcha. Am I going to whine and groan when those people who (the vast majority of them at least) EARNED that rank through hard work and long hours of PvP kick me because I spent my time happily whittling away the hours on Green farms?

Grenth take me when I do!

I’m not going to speak anymore to the masses of you complaining about rank. I humbly suggest the rest of you stop as well. It’s a waste of time giving advice to those who only seek a handout. And I’m not going to speak to the R3s out there who use their rank as a power trip to dominate their arena groups. Most likely, gaining rank in Guild Wars is the crowning achievement of your life; I would not want to deride you by reminding you just how pathetic that makes you look to the rest of us. But to those out there who earned your rank and set it on the shelf, instead of having it tattooed onto your forehead, those who suffered through those PUGs and spent as many hours explaining their build and strategy to potential groups as they did actually playing it, training friends/guildies and power-leveling their toons so you could build decent teams, I have something to say: remember me in game.

If you’ll excuse me, I have a lot of research to do about IWAY; using it and countering. I’d best get my noob behind to work.

One thing i do not understand is that everyone who is ranked (me being 6 almost 7) had to go through this. now granted someone who started at the very beinging did not but in 2 months i have gotten to 6. I know someone who made 6 in under a month. She got with a good guild and worked with them. I will sometimes form unranked groups to help people but when i ask for them todo something in the bar they say i dont want to. You have to be open to learn. I am not saying i am the best in the game but i do know something about halls and builds.

I don't find begging for groups for hours in HA to be "hard" or a "challange" at all. I find it annoying. If I want a challange I'll go pug THK. Were it merely difficult, I'd do my homework and learn how to play better. Honestly though, my play isn't the issue, it's that I rarely get the chance to do so.

Sir, let me inform you, you are exactly why rx+ people don't want rank0 people in their group. Rather than wasting my time going into this, I will repeat myself once again and hopefully this time it will get into your head.

PVE is NOT PVP, there is NO comparison, at all, whatsoever. Different Games.

PVE characters don't think & attack your weaknesses, ever, infact.. They do the same thing, over and over...and over and over...

In (high end) PVP, monking is a complex mesh of energy management, preprotting, and reaction time. In PVP everything is situtional because of the constantly evolving environment and tactics of the opposing team, in PVE there is NONE of this. Nothing changes, you fight x mob, next time you go to x mob he'll be casting the same spells/skills doing the same thing.

Btw, This isn't an opinion, PVE and PVP are too different too compare.