Monks for Hire - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

sun is in us

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2005

Organic Soup

Of the Day

Me/

24 Feb 2006 at 18:09 - 121

Quote:

Originally Posted by S E V E R

Role play... ever does it wipe clean the kitchen worktop of social dispute

Excellent. I hope you copywrite that one........

Although when you do it Evil-style......can set the kitchen on fire.....Bwhahahahahahaha.

Sinjin

Academy Page

Join Date: Sep 2005

Mile High Club [mile]

Mo/

24 Feb 2006 at 18:32 - 122

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSecorsky

Anyone that needs to be paid to do his best to keep others alive as a monk needs to delete his monk, because he degrades a noble profession.

Self-righteous BS.

You choose how you like to prefer to play, and others will choose how they prefer to play: don't impose your self-righteous values on others.

Why should a monk who has beaten every mission put 100% effort each time he goes into THK? Why would he? Where's the incentive? He doesn't need the mission. Sure, he might heal a little and give a 50% effort that still puts Mhenlo to shame - but why bother giving 100%? Simply, without incentive, there's no need to give a 100% effort.

And from the class with the highest APM, monking at 100% effort is something that's pretty much reserved for: 1. Heroe's Ascent, 2. GvG, 3. PvE with guildies : anytime you play to win.

With a PuG - why bother giving 100%? There's no tangible incentive to play well. Especially since with a PuG, you can monk at the top of your game and still have people play like baboons. At least the 2k, 5k, 10k reward is a solid incentive.

Charging as a monk is fine - they're paying for your service as a quality monk.

Loviatar

Underworld Spelunker

Join Date: Feb 2005

24 Feb 2006 at 18:45 - 123

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sinjin

Self-righteous BS.

Charging as a monk is fine - they're paying for your service as a quality monk.

the problem is that most of the time the elitest monk still does not perform at a top level even if paid but bearly does what is needed to scrape by and then complains he/she still isnt paid enough

in other words a shoddy monk for quality pay.

if that is how you enjoy playing a monk i sure am glad we never crossed paths in game.

MSecorsky

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2005

So Cal

The Sinister Vanguard

Me/

24 Feb 2006 at 18:46 - 124

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sinjin

Why should a monk who has beaten every mission put 100% effort each time he goes into THK? Why would he? Where's the incentive? He doesn't need the mission. Sure, he might heal a little and give a 50% effort that still puts Mhenlo to shame - but why bother giving 100%? Simply, without incentive, there's no need to give a 100% effort.

Then what the hell is the monk doing there in the first place if he's not going to give his all in a team effort? No incentive? Don't need it? No desire to help? Go away and let real monks restore the good name of the profession.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sinjin

And from the class with the highest APM, monking at 100% effort is something that's pretty much reserved for: 1. Heroe's Ascent, 2. GvG, 3. PvE with guildies : anytime you play to win.

I always play to win.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sinjin

With a PuG - why bother giving 100%? There's no tangible incentive to play well. Especially since with a PuG, you can monk at the top of your game and still have people play like baboons. At least the 2k, 5k, 10k reward is a solid incentive.

Charging as a monk is fine - they're paying for your service as a quality monk.

This, sir, speaks poorly on your quality of character as a monk. If you can't understand why, the more the pity for you.

So what if you've done the mission before and don't need it? Odds are, there are others in the party that haven't and do. They're going all out to win it, probably not their first attempt either. They also expect the same out of you as well. I've never had a PuG ask if I would go all out or at half speed. It's assumed I'll be 100%.

Dang, now it's more clear the problem people have with monks.

Sinjin

Academy Page

Join Date: Sep 2005

Mile High Club [mile]

Mo/

24 Feb 2006 at 18:54 - 125

edit: for loviator

in your case, that monk isn't very good and wouldn't be one to get many customers.

If I paid 5k for a monk in THK - I'd expect that monk to heal like a champ.

I used to charge 7k for monking THK, leader pays at end of completion. That was months ago before I got into PvP. I still play THK for fun, to help players through: especially mesmers and rangers who need more love.

Regardless of how I play now (which isn't the discussion), I'm competely fine with the idea of other monks charging. I feel it's justified.

==============================

edit: msecorksy

you seem to have confused the monk profession with some romantic noble carebear. behind the profession is still the same human player. If he wishes to charge for his services - that's fine by me.

also, you don't seem to understand WHY the monks are charging - because there is a general lack of monks in those specific areas. by your argument, if all the charging monks were to leave, then players would have an even harder time finding monks in those areas and would be limited to waiting for a monk or taking henchmen. at least having paid monks gives them that specific option to hire a healer. and I see nothing wrong with offering players more options. don't want to pay? you don't have to.

Mellia Darkstar

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Oct 2005

Empire Of the Underworld

E/Mo

24 Feb 2006 at 18:56 - 126

omg that is so sad id never buy such services, seems like a major scam anyways... you ppl are unhelpful

MSecorsky

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2005

So Cal

The Sinister Vanguard

Me/

24 Feb 2006 at 18:57 - 127

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sinjin

Regardless of how I play now (which isn't the discussion), I'm competely fine with the idea of other monks charging. I feel it's justified.

Then what should the warrior charge for his tanking abilities? Or the ele for the fire support? The Mesmer or Ranger for the damage preventing interrupts that make a monks life easier?

If a monk can charge for his services, then it's equally absurd for the other professions to do so as well.

LouAl

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Dec 2005

24 Feb 2006 at 19:03 - 128

there is NOTHING wrong with it, unless you also think there is something wrong with peple running Elona's reach or MM's soloing Thirsty for money.

It is not something I would do personally, but I also run strangers for free just because I like to do it.

I ran a guy through the Passage through the Dark River a few days ago. I was getting flamed in the Henge for even offering, people said it was impossible. Oh well, it worked just fine. Still flaming me for a free run sounds pretty stupid...

MSecorsky

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2005

So Cal

The Sinister Vanguard

Me/

24 Feb 2006 at 19:05 - 129

The negatives of runners are the topic of another thread.

Sinjin

Academy Page

Join Date: Sep 2005

Mile High Club [mile]

Mo/

24 Feb 2006 at 19:16 - 130

MSecorsky - do you understand that monks aren't nearly as common in high-lvl PvE as Tanks and Nukers?

Do you understand that? I'm seriously asking if you understand that.

MONKS AREN'T AS COMMON AS TANKS AND NUKERS.

that's why they are charging for their services.

teny10

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2005

Servants of Fortuna

W/Mo

24 Feb 2006 at 19:16 - 131

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSecorsky

Then what should the warrior charge for his tanking abilities? Or the ele for the fire support? The Mesmer or Ranger for the damage preventing interrupts that make a monks life easier?

If a monk can charge for his services, then it's equally absurd for the other professions to do so as well.

I agree with this to an extend. However, I don't see why ppl pay for runners and now cry about monks charging for their "service." They are both services, and I can't justify one without justify the other. With that said, I will not ever pay any monk to monk for me, nor will I charge anyone for monking.

MSecorsky

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2005

So Cal

The Sinister Vanguard

Me/

24 Feb 2006 at 19:18 - 132

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sinjin

MSecorsky - do you understand that monks aren't nearly as common in high-lvl PvE as Tanks and Nukers?

Do you understand that? I'm seriously asking if you understand that.

MONKS AREN'T AS COMMON AS TANKS AND NUKERS.

that's why they are charging for their services.

Commonality is irrelevant. Count the mesmers out there and what, pay them double?

If that's your best argument...

Sinjin

Academy Page

Join Date: Sep 2005

Mile High Club [mile]

Mo/

24 Feb 2006 at 19:21 - 133

and yes, mesmers are the backbone of keeping your party alive </sarcasm>

if the demand for mesmers existed, i'm confident players would charge for mesmering.

it's all about supply and demand.

MSecorsky

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2005

So Cal

The Sinister Vanguard

Me/

24 Feb 2006 at 19:25 - 134

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sinjin

and yes, mesmers are the backbone of keeping your party alive </sarcasm>

if the demand for mesmers existed, i'm confident players would charge for mesmering.

it's all about supply and demand.

Absurd. I've seen a mesmer leave the monk boss in ... erm... what desert mission is that where you fight the increasing mobs... well, you know. Left the monk boss a quivering glob of goo. Talk about making a mission easy! Every profession is of import and every group member is equally important in keeping the group alive. Every bad guy shut down by a mez or ranger is saving me that much healing, letting me be more effective.

Burakus Lightwing

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Oct 2005

W/

24 Feb 2006 at 19:30 - 135

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sinjin

Why should a monk who has beaten every mission put 100% effort each time he goes into THK? Why would he? Where's the incentive? He doesn't need the mission. Sure, he might heal a little and give a 50% effort that still puts Mhenlo to shame - but why bother giving 100%? Simply, without incentive, there's no need to give a 100% effort.

Charging as a monk is fine - they're paying for your service as a quality monk.

No, it's not fine. If he needs incentive to play his role then he should find something better to do with his time...away from GW.

Mort

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Sep 2005

Philadelphia Pa

Nero Dreamers [Nd]

Mo/Me

24 Feb 2006 at 19:31 - 136

Im gonna take my Mesmer and start charging to do missions!!! I wonder if there is any demand for that?

I see monks in THK offering to do the mission for insane amounts of platnum. in the 10k per person range. That is crazy. I dont know how they find 7 people dumb enough to pay for that!

Also, there is no guarentee that you will beat the mission or that the monk is any good.

Lina and Alesia are free!

It would be funny of one of those monks turned out to be smiting after someone paid them 10k

LouAl

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Dec 2005

24 Feb 2006 at 19:35 - 137

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sinjin

and yes, mesmers are the backbone of keeping your party alive </sarcasm>

if the demand for mesmers existed, i'm confident players would charge for mesmering.

it's all about supply and demand.

your disdain for mesmers is well known, but they can easily be the backbone of the team.

back on topic
The demand is high for monks because people think that they must have at least 2 or the world will fall apart. If those morons want to pay for a monk, let them. If you are one of the players that are good enough to be a equally contributing member of a team, then you should have NO PROBLEMS AT ALL taking one the henchy monks (or both). If someone in your group thinks that is unacceptable, maybe you would be better off without them leeching heals and sinking the group.

BUT, like I said, I will not EVER charge for my monking.

MSecorsky

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2005

So Cal

The Sinister Vanguard

Me/

24 Feb 2006 at 19:36 - 138

Quote:

Originally Posted by LouAl

BUT, like I said, I will not EVER charge for my monking.

/tips hat

Sinjin

Academy Page

Join Date: Sep 2005

Mile High Club [mile]

Mo/

24 Feb 2006 at 19:44 - 139

You're in THK, you see in all chat: "Monk for hire! 1K each person pay at end".

Now you've got 3 options: 1. hire the monk; 2. take henchman; 3. wait for another monk who's not charging.

Don't want to pay? You don't have to. You still have 2 other options that exist in absence of hired healers.

You're paying for a service. Simple as that. Obviously, the demand warrants the supply - otherwise the supply simply wouldn't exist.

MSecorsky

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2005

So Cal

The Sinister Vanguard

Me/

24 Feb 2006 at 19:47 - 140

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sinjin

You're in THK, you see in all chat: "Monk for hire! 1K each person pay at end".

Now you've got 3 options: 1. hire the monk; 2. take henchman; 3. wait for another monk who's not charging.

Don't want to pay? You don't have to. You still have 2 other options that exist in absence of hired healers.

You're paying for a service. Simple as that. Obviously, the demand warrants the supply - otherwise the supply simply wouldn't exist.

Please stop. This excessive floundering in an attempt to justify an unjustifiable position is beginning to get embarassing.

Option 4. Accept the monk, do the mission, don't pay him. Everyone in the group did their part as well. This could be considered justifiable, albeit dishonest.

Medion

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2005

Netherlands

24 Feb 2006 at 19:51 - 141

Quote:

I agree with this to an extend. However, I don't see why ppl pay for runners and now cry about monks charging for their "service." They are both services, and I can't justify one without justify the other.

They are both services, but of a different kind in my opinion. Say I want to get run to Droknar, do I need to do anything besides paying? Does that warrior or ranger do that totally on his own? Can I go afk after having paid end still end up in Droknar (scammers are not counting)?

Can I go pay a monk, and go AFK and still arrive in Ember Light camp? If I can then this isa service of the same kind as running, but as long as I need to do something it's totally different.

Teklord

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2005

Lloyd.ab.ca

Lords of All

R/Mo

24 Feb 2006 at 19:59 - 142

"why bother giving 100%"

Therein lies the problem. Everyone's "me me me" attitude. Not just in games, but the world in general.

Pathetic attitude.

Sinjin

Academy Page

Join Date: Sep 2005

Mile High Club [mile]

Mo/

24 Feb 2006 at 20:46 - 143

foundering: definition http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=foundering

use the word properly.

option 4: hiring the monk, completing the mission, and refusing to pay is called scamming - you agree to pay for a service, and then refuse to pay at the completion of said service. but that's a different issue.

the basic idea for charging for services is completely fine: there is a demand for monkage - and to fill that demand, players will offer their monkage for a price.

gg.

MSecorsky

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2005

So Cal

The Sinister Vanguard

Me/

24 Feb 2006 at 23:03 - 144

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sinjin

foundering: definition http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=foundering

use the word properly.

option 4: hiring the monk, completing the mission, and refusing to pay is called scamming - you agree to pay for a service, and then refuse to pay at the completion of said service. but that's a different issue.

the basic idea for charging for services is completely fine: there is a demand for monkage - and to fill that demand, players will offer their monkage for a price.

gg.

Floundering. Forgot the "L". Apologies.

Regurgitating and invalid points fails to add validity.

Van Falcon

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Dec 2005

Aussie Crypt Raiders

R/Me

24 Feb 2006 at 23:11 - 145

Quote:

Originally Posted by XvArchonvX

Wow, that's a pretty simplistic assumption. Ya know, did you ever consider the possibility that some monks don't prefer to spend their time doing a solo run over and over in a game that is basically designed to be team based?? Did you ever consider that other monks may actually want to HELP other people by REdoing missions they have ALREADY done??

Yeah thats kind of dumb.. I find solo farming, or even dual farming in UW etc boring as bat #$%@. So when I'm looking for something to do I just go to the high end areas (usually THK) and monk for teams there. I suppose I could charge but I don't really need the money. I have no problem with others charging though.

Sab

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2005

24 Feb 2006 at 23:46 - 146

If you're a brilliant warrior who knows all the spawns and understands how to aggro, go right ahead and charge for your service.
If you're a mesmer who can shut down the enemy and make the mission a breeze for your party, go right ahead and charge for your service.
If you're a ranger who has impeccable timing and can interrupt the quickest of spells, go right ahead and charge for your service.
If you're a necro and can sling hexes or raise minions like there's no tomorrow, go right ahead and charge for your service.
If you're an ele who knows nuking like the back of your hand, go right ahead and charge for your service.
If you're a monk who can manage energy while keeping your party healthy, go right ahead and charge for your service.

In short, if you demand payment for your time and expertise, that's your prerogative. Whether or not you'll actually get customers for doing the first five is another issue completely.

LouAl

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Dec 2005

24 Feb 2006 at 23:58 - 147

As much as I hate to agree with Sinjin, and even though his (or her, I don't really know - not having a go, I just truely don't know) argument is poorly worded/agumentitive/abrasive...

I really do think that paying for services in the game is justifiable. I have purchased weapons from others because I was too lazy to go and find it myself, I have had a character pay to be run from Ascalon to Drok's, I even paid a MM to solo Thirsty river (cuz I was sick of trying to find a party that wasn't full of idiots, and even though I had to fight so this guy could get his minions I still paid him at the end), but I probably won't pay for someone to be a monk for me.

I also find it despicable that people play at 50% when they are being paid. When you go to work do you only do 50%? If you do, you are very vulnerable to being fired, but if your employer keeps you around that employer DOES owe you a paycheck (assuming you aren't paid on commission). IF I paid a monk to help me on a mission, and he/she was doing a crappy job I would NOT stick around for the whole mission and be responsible for paying him/her at the end.

I personally think that telling someone that you will pay them and then not is just as bad as not playing at 100% and demanding payment. Either way you are not fulfilling your end of then contract (and technically it is a contract because someone offered something for something else and you accepted).

Eclair

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2005

25 Feb 2006 at 00:50 - 148

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSecorsky

Please stop. This excessive floundering in an attempt to justify an unjustifiable position is beginning to get embarassing.

Option 4. Accept the monk, do the mission, don't pay him. Everyone in the group did their part as well. This could be considered justifiable, albeit dishonest.

Can you explain how this is unjustifiable?

Does it breach the EULA in any way? Has ArenaNet gave a stance saying that monks should be not be charging?

The bottom line is, nobody is obligated to join a group that invites them. Anything they demand for joining a group is 100% legitimate unless ANet specifically says they can't. Whether or not other people take them up on their offer is up to the overall market demand.

It'd only be unjustified to charge for joining a party if having a real monk in your party is essential, or something Anet promised when you bought the game. If Anet stated that each group MUST have a monk primary for healing, then it is not justifiable. If A-net didn't provide hench monks, then it is not justifiable (although less so than the prior case). If A-net stated that monks may not charge others for missions, then it is not justifiable.

However, since Anet did not state that these are the terms that Guild Wars are played upon, then it is justifiable for a monk to charge because it is not an essential service that was promised when you bought Guild Wars.

Gli

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

25 Feb 2006 at 01:27 - 149

I can't believe people make such a ruckus over this. We have people offering gold for a service, and we have people willing to provide this service for gold. No one gets hurt, the EULA is respected. Everybody is happy.

Oh, no, wait, there's a few people who think they can tell other people what to do, decry a completely legitimate in-game activity, and cast aspersions on its practitioners. I guess that's alright on this forum (yet rude and overbearing.) To do so in the game though, now THAT would be more on the verge of being an actual EULA transgression than anything these monks for hire do.

Phrozenflame

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Aug 2005

25 Feb 2006 at 01:55 - 150

monks always find a loophole somehow...55 UW solo and etc etc....and yet they have the audicity for a strike...lol