Monk Abuse

ok, heres the quick summation: B/P tombs run with 2 monks from the same guild, along with their MM guilide. 2 monks is suspicious to begin with; I was only there cuz my guildie was there. The guild was in ventrillo together during the run, which they told us near the beginning. We get to the Darknesses, first one drops Victos Bulwark. The monks let everyone else die except for their own guild members, wait long enough, and then pick up the bulwark when it became available.

I e-mailed GW support with screen shots showing who the items dropped for, and who picked them all up (one of their members picked up everything at once) and got this as an answer:

Response (GM Mollusk) 02/20/2006 01:50 PM
Hello,
Thanks for contacting Guild Wars Support. As items are not necessarily owned by anyone until they are looted, players that do not or are unable to pick up certain loot may find that other players will pick it up. Also when grouping with other players, please keep in mind that they are not required to use certain skills (i.e. resurrection, etc). However we will look into this incident for any possible rule violations. If we do find a violation has taken place we will take appropriate action if it is necessary. Due to our Privacy Policy (http://www.guildwars.com/legal/privacy-policy.php), we will not be able to provide any additional information regarding this report. That is to say, we cannot reveal what action, if any, was taken, nor if the actual violation was confirmed. However, please be assured that the Guild Wars team takes User Agreement and Rules of Conduct violations very seriously. We are dedicated to maintaining an enjoyable playing environment. Because the incident that you report has been handled by the Guild Wars team, we are now setting this incident to a "Closed" status.
Thanks again for submitting your report.


Im mad about the bulwark sure, but im more worried about the increasing amount of monk extortion in this game. Monks taking gold for their services is just an example. Have u ever been in a run where u died and the first person to offer u a CC at 1 plat is the monk? I'm afraid i dont see it as a coincidence anymore. The worst part is, this is all legal to do, no matter how dirty of a tactic it is.
So, anyone else have horror stories like this? I've played this game since the first day and have never seen something so disgusting happen in game, it was a very sad thing to watch.

sry about my other post, i didnt realize i still had names in there...so here is the flame free version..goin to close the other one now

8 Posts, 3 of which belong to this issue, I see your a professional Warrior Monk... and my care has ultimately demished to nil, yes it sucks. Find some friends instead...

dude, because of lamers such as these, i dont even waste my time with mixed groups of players anymore and just go with guildies do to asshats like the one's u mentioned. and it's true the greed is almost shamefull.

I never seen this before.
Dirty tactics, no teamplay just own adventage.

Example
We did a mission, The Dragon's Lair, searching for Monks as always..
I was W/Mo and already found some players to join.
2 Monks wanted to join, so we did the mission.
Just after the first boss ( a Monk boss, yes ) they captured the elite and just left. SO we canceled the mission and got back.
It's just there is no morale ingame.

Did the mission 5 times, each time we got that far.. till the last boss ( a Warrior boss ) ppl went trought the portal and I got to start over again.

Few days ago, guess what.. I made a Monk.
I like to help ppl and this is the perfect way to do that.
Monk's have a good reputation ingame, but if this goes on.. It will be gone.

IGN : Holy Marquessa

Contact me ingame, and I'm glad to help you !!

BTW, there are lot's of scammers ingame.
Nothing new.
A while ago I was in ToA, someone wanted to buy Ectoplasma.
Lot's of ppl wanted to sell, cause he wanted to give 8k for it.
I had some, traded with him. He offered 8g..
Happy to see it in time, almost clicked Accept.

Well, that's it.. going to work again ><

Cya !!

" If you're a good Monk, it doesn't matter you joined a noob team "

I hate to break it to you, but it isn't just a monk problem. Characters of all classes are perfectly capable of playing against the spirit of the game. In the case of picking up your drops, that really does suck. In the case of monks abusing the system: 1) at no time do you ever need to pay for a monk, there are almost always henchies and they are free, 2) you don't need cc, we got along just find without them before Wintersday, we'll get along fine without them now, 3) it is a TEAM game, warriors and other players have to know how and when to draw aggro, and not just expect monks will be a 24-7 heal machine.
I have more horror stories about being flamed by warriors than you can possibly imagine, it is part of the reason that as a monk I almost refuse to participate in PUGs.

True but only to a point. There is a huge difference between a noob team and a completely suicidal one.

Players of ALL classes scam the system. It most certainly ISN'T restricted to monks.

Monk has got to be the most abusable class in the game... why? Because without monk, a party can not function very well at all (except some gimmick builds).

Personaly, I blame all these problems to Anet, as they made this game overwhelmingly reliant on monks. Hopfully ritualist change this fact without things like "OMFG, J00 R NO HEALING RIT!!?? GO ROT IN HELL!!!!11".

If warrior/ranger/elementalist/mesemer/necromancer decided to be the ass and leave the game, no matter... monsters just take a little longer to kill. But if monk were the jerks, the whole party sink.

Although you can really say that it is players' fault, but a good system should not be an abusable system. Government are there to govern people who can not govern themselves.

There is an easy solution to this problem in UW: Kill ALL the other groups before you go after the three Darkness bosses. Then when you kill the bosses, the countdown timer starts, and then there is no way for your green drops to become un-reserved in this short amount of time. If the monks let you stay dead, well, at least they couldn't get your greens.

There is no real reason to leave one of the wandering groups alive. There is plenty of time after killing the last boss (30 seconds) for you to res or get ressed if needed, and to find any greens with your name on it.

Got some points, true.

Didn't want to say Monk's scam only.. everyone knows that's false.
All classes scam, of course.
Only mentioned the Monk scammers..

What are PUGs?
And most of the time a noob team.. is most suicidal ^^

LVL 10 Mo/Me now, playing with a Newbie.. I like him, learn him most of the things ingame and buy him good Weapons and Shields.

I play this game now for.. 2 months?
Maybe, max.
Had a LVL 20 W/MO.

Vermilion that is not entirely true. There are certain areas where a certain profession is needed. It is difficult for any other prof but warrior to tank (barring invinci builds). Secondly it is possible to use E/Mo to do all the monking, even N/Mo. Monks are simply better at it.
GW is suppose to be a team game, and the developers have obviously tried to encourage diversity in game play. There are plenty of rpgs around where you can just grab a team of damage doers and go at it, without need a healer despite the fact that many games provide such a profession.
Of course when it fails and you die it HAS to be the monks' fault.
You don't need to hire monks to play. You don't need cc. But act like a jerk to a monk and I garantee you they will quit, no one wants to, nor has to, put up the type of stuff that I've had to put up with while monking. If you don't want your monks to quit, be nice to them, it really isn't that hard. If they quit for no reason (assuming it isn't just DC) then the players are jerks, and unfortunately there is not rule against that. However the ranks of jerks are certainly not limited to those who play monks.
Loot stealing sucks. Always will. However it happens to players of all professions and is performed by players of all professions.

Murk a suicidal team is everyone thinking they know best how to play the map, and doing their own thing. A noob team by definition doesn't even know the map - and I can forgive that.

Maybe it would help if each dropped item's timer that determines when it becomes up for grabs only runs down when the player for whom it was dropped is alive.

B U M P !!

Edit

LOL NVM ^^

Yeah, that sucks, but it's not really against the rules. Sometimes, you play with bad players.

BTW, I'm a pretty good monk at Ring of Fire at the moment, and would love to play with other people who know how to play ^_^

IGN: Ember Loreweaver

You know, I like that idea.

What would also be nice is a 'release drops' button, so if you're irrevocably dead or just don't care about your drops you can let other players claim them. Of course, this would give the rotten apples some leverage for extortion ("r373453 j00r dr0p5 0r w3 n0 r3z j00 4nd j00 n0+ g37 +h3m n3w4y! h4h4, w3 pwn j00! 477 j00r 100+ 15 b310ng +0 us!!!111!!one1oneone") although in that case they would actually have to say what they're doing, allowing you to take a screenshot of their demands and send it to ANet.

Change it so that whenever tombs is exited, any remaining assigned greens appear in a claiming window, like after missions. I don't see how that's any more abusable than the current system, and if people refuse to res you after the darknesses die, leave and claim your loot...

The greens assigned to you would vanish when you left the game (if they were still uncollected off ground). This would only trigger for the Tomb green drops.

I heard about this before many times.
Nothing to worry about. If you are suspicious about group (not killing wurm might give you a clue) then just stay behind and dont die. Aside from that I dont see a point to go to tombs anymore... the place is massively overfarmed and greens from there are hard as hell to sell.

Why is it warriors can charge for running, but monks cant charge for their services? Talk about abuse... how about the countless warriors who join a group then go afk and do nothing?

I get nothing but abuse as a monk, because I'm the one who has to compensate for other people doing stupid things. When I try to tell the group what to do to avoid further problems, I get called an arrogant monk who wants to lead when nobody asked me to. So what can I do, stand back and let them commit suicide and then get called a noob monk for not ressing during a fight? Other classes get no sympathy from me because they have absolutely no idea how hard it for monks. It's not arrogance, it's trying to do their job when it's being made impossible by other people.

Instead of hating them, play one. Sooner or later you'll realize it's mostly stress, and people HAVE to listen to the monks because nobody else needs to control each situation before people start dying like they do.

A suggestion I've seen which might have prevented the above, is that drops DON'T time out (i.e. become unreserved for the player they originally dropped for) unless the player they are reserved for disconnects. I think most people will be hesitant to let teammates die or not rez teammates in a timely manner if the drop don't time out. Unfortunately, I'm sure there are some who will still try.

I've lost an ecto or two to this same situation. Try to let it go (after noting the guild who did it, so you don't group with them in the future) and not let it ruin your future enjoyment.

I am not part of a large guild, mainly because I want to be in a guild with friends. Most of the time I am forced to resort to PUGs, if I am trying to do something that can't really be henched. This of course means that in return for even joining a group I will be abused. Although I do not charge to help people with quests or missions. I can understand those monks that do. You have already done the mission, and want to help some people, and know they will be jerks to you succeed or fail. I can see why people playing monks might think, they should have to pay me to put up with this stuff.

It is for that reason that if it can be done with henchies, that is how I will do it. Even if I get an invite to join a group. I can't count on anyone not being a newb just because they are so far in the game.

It sucks that people steal loot like that, but monks aren't the only people that carry res, so you can't just blame monks.

Wow, first post and it's a double

Hey, first post....

Anyways, I started off GW about a month ago as an Ele/N, but at level 15 I switched to a Mo/W (believe it or not I had never heard about a 55-hp monk before, just a fluke chance I guess).

You have no idea how much s*** I have to put up with in game when I'm playing as a healer. I know exactly what you guys are talking about when you say that people depend on monks being walking healing machines.

Almost everytime some player dies, they either teamsay or whisper a :| face to me, and tell me to do my job. Hell, I've even had people who after we clear out one or two mobs and they're at about 3/4 full health, run awway from the group straight into two more mobs of 5, and then they bitch at ME when they die...

It's so frustrating. I usually play with a friend I know in real life and he's always hearing me bitch over TS about it. He'll usually help stand up for me... I just wish people would realize we have energy limits too, we have a WHOLE TEAM to look out for, and if you're constantly wasting our time by being reckless we're going to shift our focus on keeping the smart players alive, and leave you to do your thing alone.

I'll take monking for noobs anyday over monking for jerks.

GG

I cannot say how much I appreciate running the Tombs.

The last two parties I had (PuGs) were great and very respectful. Everyone knew their job, and did it perfectly. They thanked me for keeping them alive, and I thanked them for keeping the agro off of me. Everything went smoothly, and it was a blast. Why can't everygroup be like that?

I still feel that Monks should NOT charge for their services.

Hey! I played my monk in FoW with a group that seemed to be relatively new to the game, and I gave them candy canes FOR FREE every time I had resed them. I've not just done this to random party members in FoW, but also in random parties in Ruins of Tombs, UW and SF. So please don't bash ALL monks! Very many of us are good guys and girls.

I've had surprisingly little abuse as a monk so far. I've finished the game and only play in PUGs. I am currently replaying Abbadon's Mouth and Hell's Precipice a few times each day to help out teams, because of the little amount of monks being available in these last missions. My other motivation for replaying these missions is that I've had some succesful chest drops and like to continue that.

Anyway, only yesterday did I have a warrior in a team I was in who was constantly yelling at the other monk and me because he kept dying. It turned out he wasn't even infused and had multiple superior runes too. His total health was very low and his behaviour likewise. Not infused players are basically at the bottom of my priorities to heal. The only exception was also yesterday.

A N/Mo found out she had the wrong armour equipped and was sincerly sorry for being kind of a burden to us. Since she was a generally nice person we did try our best to keep her alive when we could, although she herself said we shouldn't waste too much energy on her. I was running 8 enchantments and had -4 energy regen. She helped me out quite a bit with this spell of her(I..er..don't know which..) which gives me +3 regen pips for 'x' seconds. Anyhoo, moral of the story is that any player, regardless of profession, who acts like a nice and decent person can receive the same treatment in return.

I don't wanna say be smart next time so be cautious. If you have done B/P build before its useally 5 B/P 1 MM 1 Order and 1 Monk. If theres 2 monks extra protection? I say no, and just leave the group. It has been done when occurences such as this has happend. Not being ressed and losing drops. Bring skills to help yourself in danagerous conditions or when your kiting away. ON the 4th map i make sure and take the most precaution to not die by the darknesses, cause if the darknesses are half health and you die. Will you get a res?

Monking is an aquaried taste. Some can run it, some can run it incredibly. As for me im strong in all professions but monk.

On my second account i have a monk by the name octavius meredious. He has reached the THK mission and has tried and failed to do the mission 8 times. Here is the time when monk abuse reached its max

we are clearing out the fort our group consisted of

2-monks(me and a monk/ranger who decided to smite)
3-W/mo
2 Ele
1-death nec(with bloodrit)

The tnaks and ele were all in the same guild, so i kind of figured oh well might be a good group after all. boy was i wrong!

Well when we hit the first group in the fort everything had been going well i had been healing i had a +energy wand and an ankh(dont ask how long story really weird drop) so i had roughly 50-60 energy cant remember exactly cause it was a while ago and the nec hit me with bloodrit once in a while which i always thanked him for using. well when we entered into the frist group the three wars immediately ran in, no biggy i said threw on heal breeze WoH mending on one and some other stuff now my energy is at about 20-30, then immediately one of the wars decides toaggro the second group while still mopping off this group. i shout my energy get hit with loodrit adn it only brings my energy back up to 10 before i send out an HB or WoH or a mend condition, all in all im shot for energy shouting my energy saying ok we are definetely dead men right now.


a miracle must of occured because we manage to kill all but one last member of the second group with our whole party alive, not at full health but alive, i start wiating for my energy to come back and i look up at mini map seeing our smite/ranger monk has run off to pull more aggro i shout my energy wa like 5 but she still goes pulls the group to us i try desperately i take off mending throw up healing breeze WoH orison anything thaqts recharged and i have nergy for my enrgy dropped to one and i see tons of teamates dieing first the wars then the ele then the nec and then the stupid smite monk, at this point im running for my life praying i can get off rebirth soon and out run them, i got crippled and bleeding and poison
to much for me to use mend condition which i tried to do but died
in the end back in THK i got this whisper

"u fcuking noob ass monk go fcuk a tree and never join my group again"
Ignorant noob is ignoring you

Don't despair, Cador, they were just bad players and you should be happy not to play with them again. THK is tough if you haven't gathered already a number of game friends who you know play well and who can make up the core of your party. If you are a monk, try forming your own group (everyone will want to join) but be picky! Take no more than 2 Warriors. Try to take a good mix: Mesmers with spell interruptors and ineptitude against warriors helps a lot; Rangers with dust trap and interrupts, etc. etc.

Heh, people, just make friends. I have played monk many times, I have experienced a few sour apples. When I see a nasty player, all I do is not heal the guy. Thats it.

What is he going to do about it? Maybe...Cry? Cry? And maybe a bit of Cry Some More?

In FoW run, there is no way you can get in a bad group. All you have to do is just be the party leader...I have done that many times...

If you want get start a good group, just spam for your characters you need and when you get whispers, ask them what SKILL BAR they are bringing, and you can basically see if they are experienced by checking out their skillbar.

Of course, guildies ALWAYS help, even if your guildie is a NOOB player, I prefer taking a guildie that can play, even if less experienced, then a random Pugger.

Also, usually with a guild you are in some sort of voice communication (vent, ts, skype = others) even if you guys are talking through guild chat, it helps.

Other night I got a group together, had part y of a few guildies and rest puggers, I noticed some guildies logged on so I just kicked the people I didn't know and took the guildies.

As it turned out, we had two non guildies in a party of 8. And guess what? The two non guildies were the first to leave after me, the tank died once. JUST ONCE, like ?!??!?!. Since one was a nuker, and one was an active prot, it was pretty hard to get the monk/monk/mesmer/mesmer/abyssals+warriors at the first clearing of forge palace place.

So all in all, what I am trying to say is:

1. If you are a monk and are having a hard time put on you (granted you are not a noob monk and suck), just chill and take it easy, calming the other @$$3$ like you would calm baby.

2. If you are the other proffesions seeking a monk, ask them their skillbar, that sorts out noobs from experienced players. Above all, get a guildie to monk instead of playing their other class, or just hit up a friend.

It really isn't that big of a deal. If you can't get anyone to monk, take a hench (they work FINE in MOST missions) or just do the mission/farming SOMETIME LATER.

Well, as someone who plays a Monk, I can safely say that all Rangers are whiney, lazy bums! You wanna know why? Because the other night I was running tombs with my guild (5/8) using the B/P build, me as monk. Our sixth slot was filled by a guy we've been running with for a while, had a pick-up Necro and a pick-up ranger to fill out the crew. About 1/3 of the way throught the second level, this Ranger goes AFK (he was sure to hide his character behind a statue so he couldn't be got at first)! When he came back, not long after we started the final map, he just stood around doing nothing. LEECH! So we got him killed and refused to res him. After hearing his sob story, and lots of begging, the Necro res'd him. And that only tells me that all Necros are bleeding-heart softies!

*end sarcasm*

Edit: The details of the incident are true, and justice was served in the end - the leech stayed alive long enough to see that he got ZERO green drops!
(I also play a "useless" Mesmer and a "Stupid" warrior )

Lady Lozza, I don't think you got the point of my post, nor were you looking it from the same direction.

You perhaps had ignorant people complain or make a fuss about your monking (or someone you know), which I can see why you wrote those. However, you can not deny the fact that monk are generally a must. Even if you say n/mo e/mo, they are still healers playing the role as "monk".

Lets say a group of 8 go to tomb, and near the end when they fought Darkness, they purposely refuse to heal; at that moment, there will be NOTHING anyone can do about it and watch the monks loot off them. While if it were another way around, said the Necro purposely didn't help fighting, the group will still survive and collect the loot.

So if the population of "jerk monk" rise to the point of warriors in CA, what do you think will happen? The only option left then is to get hench monk that have no energy management + always go toward north + lover of hot lava, OR be a monk yourself. How is a game that don't force anyone to do anything force everyone to be a monk?

Try saving those NPC without a single mo in the party? Yea, technically possible... but how often will that happen? You can't go through the entire PvE game without monk, but you can go through the entire PvE game without either w/r/e/n/me just fine.

I don't even see how any of you can defend the monks.

This is a clearly wrong action and a total scam, one which any pair of monks could pull off in any group.

These monks guild should kick them out and they should have their reputation follow them and not be allowed in any guild.

You're suggesting that nobody play with anyone they don't know and that's just blatantly ridiculous.

This is an online game. A-Net might yet take action, so I won't slam them but if they don't then they're promoting this.

I dont think anyone is defending those monks, but the title of the thread and a few other posts seem to single out monks as the only class that can abuse people. In truth it's monks who get abused more than any other class.

Again, not necessarily true. I've been on Fire Islands missions with NO monks. I've seen Hell's Precipice cleared by 8 W/Mos. The other day, I was in a 4-man trap team in HOH UW, with no monks, and we made it all the way to the end and got our greens (a long, grueling three hour trip). So long as everyone on the team is competent with their skillset, and know what they are doing, no profession is "mandatory" to have along.

You have 8 w/"MO", and you said you have no monk? I also didnt say it is impossible, but monk are more than needed for majority of the population.

While speaking of impossible... get through the enitre PvE missions + bonus without monk = impossible. Then again, I never try it yet.

omg im starting monk char today!

Now, that is something I know for a fact... The past couple of days I have been helping players with the Villainy of Galrath mission. I am proud to say I know every mob location and how to effectively avoid them (or defeat the ones that simply must be aggro'd). Heck, I even stop at Bergen and ToA for the people. That run is sitting at a value of 1-3k from the spam I have caught today. However, most of the groups I have teamed with have been complete idiots. Several of them never finished the mission because they were aggro'ing everything and never pulling back. They either don't know the map at all, say so, but still run ahead like Gods, or they claim to know the map and then run right into the fray that they can't possibly survive. And then they yell at me for not healing them when, before we even left Lions Arch, I specifically told them all that I am a Pyromancer who does not use monk skills. They are noobs. They are suicidal.

Note that, for me at least, "noob" means insolent,idiotic, jerk, moron, etc... Newb is the term I use for newbie or new player, as that is the way things are supposed to be... One of these days I'll go on a Crusade to un-tangle those terms and set things right again.

They ask for group members that "don't suck" but they, in truth, uber-suck.

On-topic now...

Yes, Monk abuse happens. And I agree, it sucks. But it isn't the only class that does it, nor will it ever be, nor has it ever been. I've seen almost every other class take advantage of players in the same way, and I haven't even been past Ice Caves of Sorrow yet (keep trying but... PUG's suck). Hell, I saw it happen plenty of times in Pre-searing. It's best to just count your losses and just move on.

Please note that jciardha used a period. It was two different statements.

3 hour logn trip. Self expainatory.

I wasnt trying to single out monks but, as a pretty good monk myself, i know what kind of power a monk has over the team. People in this thread have defended monks, and then turned around in the same post and said "if u get crap just dont heal that person." Thus proving my point.

People also suggested (ZOMGS!!!11!!!!1) altering the B/P run by clearing the entire HoH first!? Obviously you have never tried to get an entire b/p group to change the run, because it is drilled in to their brains for some reason and is nearly impossible. For example, on the third level it is a million times easier to pull the enemies from the middle and then travel up the left side. Convincing your team to do so is almost impossible, and Ive watched so many people die on that left side from over-aggro. Obviously this doesnt apply to a good team, but then ive never had a problem with good teams trying to steal items from people...

The number one thing that people do not seem to understand about monks is not even the amount of energy you waste, which you can spam all over the screen if you want. What they dont understand is that healing spells have (gasp!) casting times and recharge times just like any other spell. You simply cannot be casting a spell on two different people at the same exact time.

I too have a small guild and find that I must PUG quite often...but it can be very fun. Besides, how can you say to not PUG but tell us to make friends? Generally i meet people in pve and add them to friends when I find them doing well in a pug...good players notice each other and end up talking a lot of the time.

I didnt mean this to focus solely on monk abuse, of course any class can do it, my story just happened to center solely on these two monks.
Guess its just cuz im a stpid w/mo, usless mesmer, lazy ranger, and just all around horrible monk