The abusive arrogant intolerent player

GW is the 1st MMORPG I'v played. I'v been on teams with a lot of abusive, arrogant, intolerant players, call them AAIPs. I've noticed these teams have very low success rates in the diffcult missions, such as those required for assension. The team rapidly fragments and disolves and is unable to learn from it's mistakes, since the AAIPs turn any attempt to discuss what went wrong into a discussion of their team members shortcomming, and their own superiority. Most of their messages degenerate into ----s at these times. It's going to take at least a few trys to get through these tough missions, a team needs to accept this and try to learn from what went wrong. I've reached the point where if I find myself on an AAIP dominated team any longer, I leave at the 1st oportunity, I won't enjoy the game, and if it's a tough mission we won't succeed.

My question is, do you think the difficulty of some of the missions, like those required for assension, is an attempt at an AAIP filter by the designers? I just got through assension, so I haven't gathered much data. However, it seems to me that an AAIP is going to have a much harder time getting through the assension quests do to their inability to work in a group effectivly. I know there were no such plyers on the teams I was in that completed the three assension quests. I would much rather have what some might call a less talented player who trys to work with the team and learn from their mistakes than AAIP superstar who can't.

What do you all think? I hope I'm right and this is the case, I certainly wouldn't mind seeing fewer of these folks and having to put up with less of their nonsense.

For those of you who find the assension missions hard, they are. However, my opinion is keep trying, but stay out of AAIP dominated groups, you'll get there with the right team.

If your one of those abusive folks, I suggest you think about your play style and try to keep your anger under control. It's only a game, are you really enjoying yourself when you get that wound up? Laugh at what happened, learn from it and move on. If you adopt the same behavior style in your real life, you are going to have a lot of real problems to deal with in life.

Unfortunately, players like these are a fact of life in massively-multiplayer online games. It's sad, but there's nothing that can be done unless they do something nasty enough to warrant reporting them.

By the way, I moved this to the Riverside Inn forum. That's the forum for community discussions. Have fun.

I was lucky enough to be in not one but two of these types of groups. First group lasted 20 min before people stared to quit the group. Here was the ad for the group,
"LGF for Thirsty River who can follow orders".
I should have known better than join this silly bunch.

So I went to the Thirsty River with henches. Then I got in a group for the Thirsty River Ascension quest. Now the leader for the most part was pretty good about calling targets and such, but he had three rangers in the group! I was amazed we made it to the last priest! Well, we didn't kill him in time and the aggros rezzed and we died and I've never seen so many ----s, @#%$#, ------------, and ----ys on the chat window since I started playing this game.
So, I know what your talking about. I was just laughing the whole time! Three rangers, wow what a leader!

Sadly it's true, every MMORPG you play in will have players of that caliber. It is something we unfortunately have to learn to deal with. No matter what you do, you could flame them, tell everyone who it is, etc. but they still find ways to succeed. In many games I've discovered 95% of the time in games where roles are important such as having a white mage they choose those roles. It ensures them that they will have a group. However in the last MMORPG I played I created a linkshell for FFXI and refused to allow players like that. We had a website and voting system to allow new members, and myself and the other leader made sure we kept certain players out of the linkshell and informed everyone of players like that. Really about all you can do. Create a good strong group of friends and hope you dont run into morons too often when you're not playing with good friends.

That's exactly what my LS had done in FFXI, as well. There were a lot of individuals who were discriminating some of the players, and we had booted them off and made sure they weren't reinvited by the new members. There were also many other reasons, but it's irrelevant and unnecessary to say. Sad, yes. But there isn't any other option to choose from. Aside from blacklisting.

P.S.
Mind if I asked what server were you on, Phantom? =)

Hey, three rangers who can interrupt can be a lifesaver on that mission. That last boss heals like no ones business. Interupting his heals is really key. I don't care the class, as long as there are players who know what they are doing.

It sounds like you fit into the subjects description

Get a really good monk on your team (one you can trust and knows how to keep people alive) then sign up the healer henchman. For the most part, a really good monk will keep you alive when players are doing very dumb things like pulling too much. Past that, I just ignore retarded comments. Just make sure you have one player that has res and knows their job is to stay alive at all costs in a mission.

Worked for me so far.

or "wanker" for short. ;-)

This mindset is not going to change and yes.. they will ruin your day. I don't think the missions you mention are as much a filter as the ability to create guilds so you can have like minded team mates to do these cooperative missions with.

That said, when I first started and had no clue what to do, I was picked up in a group of experienced players that helped me get through those first early wall missions and made it fun and exciting. I just wish that was more the rule and less the exception.

Maybe the GW's team needs a new "district" so you have American, European, Korean and "wanker." ;-)

Yup...thats reality. Every MMORPG has people like these, and we just have to deal to live with them.

To be fair, there is the matter of perspective to consider. Are you a team member who isn't the assigned leader yet persists in wandering off? Are you not the target caller yet persist in attacking stray mobs?

I can easily see a good, solid leader seeking group members who can "follow orders" under these circumstances. Such a leader would not be arrogant, but simply an experienced player who knows his role and expects others to cooperate and know their roles as well.

I guess it depends on how they deal with such a situation, though. Are they abrasive? Is that what it takes to get some smacktard's attention? To many pickup groups suffer from the failing of too many chiefs, not enough indians. It is the job of the group leader to assign / ask for chiefs, and the other players to accept their direction for the time being and for the welfare and smooth operation of the group.

Wait a minute, just to get this straight, wre they saying those things to one another or just venting. cause I vent a lot, but I'm never, ever abusive to other players. And after venting I always try to chat about another strategie.
Am I an AAIP? Or am I just a nice guy with a anger manegment problem.

There are lots of these types of players around. I would like to make generalistions about them, especially based on age, etc, but I won't.

I was in one last night (the one before Thunderhead Keep) and the 'leader' decided to ONLY SPEAK IN CAPS throughout the whole mission, which was his way of giving 'orders'. He kept coming out with stuff like "RUN!!!!!!! DON'T YOU ----ING MESS THIS UP FOR US!" and all that kind of pubescent trash talk.

I therefore hate PUGS (pick up groups) as a general rule, but I did do Tombs later on and met some decent people (rare, I know). Everything else I do with guildies and I tend to turn off local chat at both the outposts and in pvp.

For me, having a strong guild is key to my enjoyment of the game because I can ignore the dross that makes up a large part of the player-base.

In regards to the difficulty of these missions as a "Choke Point," I can safely say that this is not the case. All of the story related missions are, and have been, toned down with PUGs in mind - so that the average player won't miss out on the bulk of the game. This is also why when people get into certain quests (Althea's Ashes, Villainy of Galrath) and expect more of the same, the difficulty suddenly feels very lopsided to them - as parts of the game that aren't 'required' they are thus made for the sake of the challenge, and completing them.

I give the level designers credit, because you can see the missions increasing in difficulty on a fairly even curve - I assume that the intention was to subtly coerce people into learning how to operate as a group (something that is mandatory for success in PvP) .. and while the intentions are noble, for some people, this is about as futile as teaching a donkey to foxtrot.

Some people have a very hard time understanding that this isn't Diablo 2, this isn't Counterstrike, where one person can go solo and 'win the game.' The problem becomes their arrogant insistance on being right - no matter how much patience you display, or how much tact you put into your words - these people are never at fault, it is always issues with the game design. Issues of which they are more than happy to be exceedingly vocal of. Taking it out on teammates is just another extension of that - which in turn upsets other people, who then have a retort, and things degenerate from there. It is a nasty downward spiral to the lowest common denominator.

There isn't anything you can really do to 'fix' these mindsets. One of the hardest lessons i've had to learn in life is that you can't change somebody who doesn't want to change themselves - people need to arrive at these conclusions and fix them on their own. In the meantime, I can only recommend finding people that you enjoy playing the game with. These forums serve for that dual purpose - we are more than questions, answers, and information - we are a hub of social gamers to interact on the levels that we aspire to ... it makes it very easy to find like-minded individuals, filtering out the otherwise (at times) trying process of doing it in game.

Speaking of difficult parts of the game and Althea's Ashes, I play with a group of friends and we all do the teamspeak thing. We have pretty much played all the MMO games out there and are competent adventurers, but difficult GW missions and quests show that some missions require a good team mixture. First time we did Althea's Ashes we used a w/mo, r/mo, ele/mes and a healer henchman. Sure glad the res point was right in front of the altar. Second time through same group, lower level and used a mo/mes, ele/mo and healer henchman... went through without a problem.

Sometimes it isn't the players, sometimes it is the chemistry of the builds. Although there are some horrible and annoying players like the ones that spam "I wish I could do PvP with only bots" or "I wish all the lamerz would leave" five thousand times in the arenas.

I doubt that the devs thought to themselves "if we do it like this it will make people behave kinder and cooperate." Probably they just realized, as most Kind Generous Tolerant Players (KGTP )realize, that cooperation and strategy and planning are more fun. It gives you more of a rush when you know that if one gear was out of place everything would have failed.... but it didn't!

It's often difficult to tell the difference between undirected venting and directed abuse. If you see a string of ranting on the screen, the person obviously took the time to type it in, rather than just mumbling to themselves. I think typing it on the keyboard is going to reduce your credibility with the group and other players at the very least. I've had more than one whisper conversation with other players about the uncontrolled venting/abuse from other players. Most of the people seem to find it humorous/offensive/imature but it's never something that makes them want to team with the person.

It it truely unfortunate that there are peeps who will insist on being difficult. However, I have found out that if I try to reach out and help my guild members, especially the n00bs, then it can set a positive tone, and an example that is attractive. This is my pro-active way of dealing with this issue. Of course, there are no guarantees, but it really will improve the chances of building and maintaining a successful and exciting guild!

Yeah I've gotten into some horrible groups, probably the main reason why it took me a week to ascend. One group I was leading, one guy pretty much told me to shut up, says I didn't know what I was doing, and some other things just because I wanted everyone to skip the cinema for elona's reach.

Other times people don't follow general ideas(focus fire concentrate on healer). Or this is my favorite, get a good deal into the mission and then because the boss didn't use an elite skill they wanted they just quit and leave us to fend for ourselves.

I put horrible people on ignore. My ignore list is now full and I have to start taking people off it. >< Increase ignore list length, please!

Well, the 3 rangers didn't interrupt. We died, the WaMo (imagine that!)was the one with the scathing tounge.

Why vent on a group that try their best? There is a difference between venting frustration, getting a new strategy together and trying again versus swearing at the team for being f'ups, idiots, morons etc....Thats the best way to take a team that got to the final boss after the second attempt and scatter them. The party dissolved, and we were that close.

The point of my team mix was about balance. Thread after thread in this site talks about balance.

I could really care less about tha "AAIPs" or whatever phrase you've coined for them. I'd be happy if ascention somehow weeded out all the clueless newbies. Unfortunately, that is not the case. Everyone wants skills/items/levels now now now and are not willing to put in the effort to learn how to use them correctly. Does that make me an AAIP? I don't know. If someone makes a mistake, I'll let them know it. I'll be friendly and kind and try to explain to them why it would be better if they changed their strategy. But, if they care to argue it further when they are clearly in the wrong, I'll let them know they're an idiot. I guess that does make me an AAIP, but to be honest, I really don't care.

-Virt

It's odd, because I have always had a good, quite, and somehow idle telepathic group when it came to the battle stages. It's amazing, the people I partied with the first time in the game I party with the next time, and we just get every mission and quest, seperate and call it a day.

Maybe im just extremly lucky

Or maybe they were on teamspeak/ventrilo.

-Virt

Nope, none of us had it or wanted it :P

Hmm... I was assuming you misspelt "quiet" and then said "somehow telepathic" that perhaps you were in a group that was in a voice server but you weren't. I can only imagine what other players think when they join a group with out guild. We rarely talk in party chat.

-Virt

The LS I created was on Leviathan... if you were on Levi then you could already assume who I am. The LS was Silent Crusaders.

I also must add that Spooky spoke it very well. In games like these it all boils down to finding good players that you meet and connect with. When you find those players make sure you keep in touch. When you find those select players that are poor teammates/teamplayers and trash the team when you fail once, then just move on. 99% of the time it's a losing battle because like Spooky said you'll never change anyone who doesn't want to be changed, sad fact of life.

I don't condone yelling at people if they made a mistake, but sometimes you can only get their attention that way.
Hell, we had a player the other day (Good Smith), who wouldn't even listen when we yelled at him/her.They kept on running ahead of us like they knew what they were doing, and attracting lots of mobs. It was really frustrating.
I don't know where I'm going with this, I just felt I had to add something.

Hey, I'm arrogant!

On a different note. I know exactly what you mean. I hate it when you get the worst of players in your party, not skill-wise or experience-wise...personality wise. I can't stand it when I get an asshole on my team who randomly starts shouting about hitler and doing not-so-nice things to a certain group of people. Made me want to kill the guy so much I just left the mission 20 yards away from the end-door. I didn't want such a load of filth in my cut-scene.

Did I mention he died excessively? Yeah, it is good once you get later on in the game because you don't have so many people like that.

Snipped for brevity. I'd be willing to wager that most of the same people who do what they want in a group (such as running off right after the bonus quest and heading back to town, who teleport out of the arena as soon as they die, not willing to stick it out, etc) are one in the same. They want the instant gratification/attention/reward that is given in some other games. If they can't find it asap, they just move on. There really isn't anything you can do about them other than as some mentioned, ignore them. You can also add the people who scream at you for going into the level 1-10 arena (or any pick up arena) if you're not maxed out in levels. I made a monk and wanted to see how some skills worked out. In the pick up arena you lose nothing for going in. First game in at lvl 5 (out of 10 max) mr wonderful teammate (we shall call him douchebag)starts griping about the noob (me) on his team, and why all the low levels are trying the arena out. Pointing out the obvious to him (it is skill based more than level got the typical STFU noob comment. So long story short, he dies first (surprise, hes lvl 10) and starts spamming for res. Over and over and over. Being the kind soul I am, I proceed to layeth the smack on the other team, killing two out of the four - we win the match. Non stop do I hear about how he should have been res'ed. Next match he dies first again, spams the res' and since none was forth coming in the .3 seconds after his demands, he quits the arena. We win again. After we win kindly whisper to him , thanking him for leaving so we can get a teammate. Kind of surprised when I didn't hear anything back....


Short answer - ignore em. Sometimes just move to a new district. You'll be amazed at some of the lesser populated ones have the best people. Good luck in your journeys.

Oh no man, you misunderstood, I didn't vent on other players. I never in**** others, I just type in s**t or F**k. Then we all try to get a new strategie, but from the sound of things I have been more lucky then most people, cause till now I alwys teamed up with great people. But on the forums I see a lot of post about assholes. Maybe that will come later when I hit the hard missions.

I think I ran into this same guy in town...... Nonstop Hitler, and racist remarks. We finally ignored him and he went away.

Oh i got a good story about people leaving after dieing in pvp. It was a group of 5 including me. Now four of us were killed and within seconds the other 3 people quit, I was of course dead, the only one alive was a W/mo. Who had to fight 3 guys all by himself(don't remember what classes) he beat all 3 of them by himself and techincally him and I won the battle since the other 3 people quit.

Whoa there, leave us out of this! You think my idea of fun is getting stress lines from babysitting idgits all day?

Rangers are strongly desired ( more then one ion group) on Thirsty River. There abilty to kill targets outside the walls and control the tempo of the fights is pretty key that mission.

When I was 12 years old, I was an angry, immature clueless little punk. Luckily there were no online games back then that I could make a fool of myself on. Today, there are. Just realize you can't change the world's preteens and enjoy the game as best you can despite them.

Unfortunately for me, I have encountered nothing BUT those people in gw. Well, not really true, those in my guild have turned out to be exceptionally well adjusted people who ar ea blast to quest with. I am nowhere near ascendancy yet, but I have stated in several other forum areas about my solo crap. I have got to where I am now COMPLETELY by henchies. Only a couple of non-mega-reward quests were done with a person.

It works for me, and i don't have to really listen to all the "god45907345e" crap that those people have a coronary over.

I am sorry that you had those experiences (thread starter), and hope you can avoid it in the future.

I'm just much more selective about who I team with. I try most quests with henchs at least once now, that way I at least have some idea what I'm in for before trying a team. If the henchs work out, than great. Just joined a guild and have high hopes for the people in it also.

Jerks often give themselves away almost immediately on a PUG. In which case I find some diplomatic reason to leave the group immediately. No sense in being in a rush to get on the 1st team available if you’re going to be miserable there.

As far as trying to reform jerks, not worth the effort. The online game interface is to indirect to allow you to have much impact. If a 1st try at trying to get someone to mod their behavior or get them to listen doesn't work I give up and move on. I'd rather play with a noob, who makes dumb mistakes but listens and learns from them than a loud mouth jerk, or someone who refuses to listen and work with the team. I also have found that yelling or swearing back never works. When I feel an overwhelming urge to do that I just move on.

Never argue with an idiot, people may not be able to tell the difference.

Heheh, and people wonder why I prefer to solo. I've meet more then my fair share of these people in almost every MMO i've played, and im just sick of 'em. Ya learn to recognize 'em quick though, and somtimes it IS worth it to stick it out and deal with it; but the success rate isnt very high.