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emote /skillbar
e.g.
Player: I have Guardian, Reversal of Fortune, Mend Ailment, Divine Boon, Contemplation of Purity, Smite Hex, Holy Veil and Offering of Blood on my skillbar.
/skillbar
Epinephrine
MSecorsky
/not signed.
Although a good idea on the surface, try to get into groups after this is in effect with a party leader that already knows how you should do your build better than you do. People will be forced into currently accepted cookie-cutter builds or kicked.
Although a good idea on the surface, try to get into groups after this is in effect with a party leader that already knows how you should do your build better than you do. People will be forced into currently accepted cookie-cutter builds or kicked.
Mercury Angel
I disagree. If you have to do things like hide your skill set from your other teammates, then it can't be a very close group, and if people don't trust each other and work together openly, then I don't think they can do well anyway.
That aside, I'm not sure the text line would fit, though if it were a built-in message, perhaps it could break the character limit. Not sure how that works.
A potential benefit of this is that the game has the database of translations to pull from already. If you wanted to team internationally, and people could only slightly communicate to each other in their mutual language choice, then it'd help clear up confusion by auto-translating the skills for people. That's one of the reasons I'd like the same deal for weapons.
That aside, I'm not sure the text line would fit, though if it were a built-in message, perhaps it could break the character limit. Not sure how that works.
A potential benefit of this is that the game has the database of translations to pull from already. If you wanted to team internationally, and people could only slightly communicate to each other in their mutual language choice, then it'd help clear up confusion by auto-translating the skills for people. That's one of the reasons I'd like the same deal for weapons.
Epinephrine
Interesting point. I suppose you could simply not tell them - they say "Type your skills" and you say "no". Then again, I don't pug, so it's more for quick communication with guildmates when throwing builds together. I ask people what they are running the few times I do end up taking people into a group (generally I don't as I'd rather a henchman for most things, but sometimes you can't help it or feel generous.)
I suppose I see the objection, but if they want they can already ask you for your skillbar, just that you have to type it each time, and they can already be pains and try to tell you how to play, I've seen it. So I don't see it as making that situation any worse.
I suppose I see the objection, but if they want they can already ask you for your skillbar, just that you have to type it each time, and they can already be pains and try to tell you how to play, I've seen it. So I don't see it as making that situation any worse.
leeky baby
its a good idea i surpose but its qicker to just say on vent or ts then anet having to make some programe to do this ?
MSecorsky
Well, just about all I do these days is PvE pugs... hey, I find it fun. There are far too many out there that would abuse the emote to determine whether or not they feel someone is worthy of their group. Granted it may benefit the PvP crowd, sure... but it will yank the casual player in the short-and-curlies and result in endless grief.
Consider trying to get into a group for UW, FoW or Tombs with a unique build you want to give a go there...
Consider trying to get into a group for UW, FoW or Tombs with a unique build you want to give a go there...
Orbberius
Quote:
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Originally Posted by MSecorsky
Consider trying to get into a group for UW, FoW or Tombs with a unique build you want to give a go there...
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This or something like it would make it so much easier to form 8-man groups.
MSecorsky
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Orbberius
So what do you usually do when somebody asks what your skills are? Lie? It seems to me you would be doing the group a disservice if you didn't reveal your 'unique' build.
This or something like it would make it so much easier to form 8-man groups. |
However, this opens things up to simplifying abuse. Better to give Pandora a cookie and her doll and tell her to go play.
Warskull
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Originally Posted by MSecorsky
Well, just about all I do these days is PvE pugs... hey, I find it fun. There are far too many out there that would abuse the emote to determine whether or not they feel someone is worthy of their group. Granted it may benefit the PvP crowd, sure... but it will yank the casual player in the short-and-curlies and result in endless grief.
Consider trying to get into a group for UW, FoW or Tombs with a unique build you want to give a go there... |
I regularly discuss skillbars in PvE when I play with good players. A good example is on a SF run with two monks. I was playing the healer and between us we decided to drop mend ailment on the heal monk because the only really common condition was bleeding and the other monk could handle it more efficiently with his build. Thus I swapped in vigorous spirit instead for a great deal of highly efficient healing. This would be useful for organizing good players.
You can always form your own group if you want to keep your skillbar a super-secret. A vast majority of the time when pick-up player types their skillbar it makes me debate just using a henchman instead. This will help good players form groups and help bad players improve their build. Some builds just aren't viable (W/E with lightning strike and chain lightning, I am talking to you.)
MSecorsky
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Originally Posted by Warskull
Why should I accept someone into my group if I can tell by their skillbar that the suck and don't understand the role I need them to play? You reject 55 monks from your FoW and UW groups, don't you? Why can't I reject a monk who obviously won't be able to play the healing monk spot or a warrior who doesn't quite understand the concept of DPS? I can tell by your skillbar if you know how to play your character pretty easily. This would be a rather useful in both PvP and PvE.
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All you know is your concept of how characters should be played, not how well I play mine. To think that you can tell someone's abilities by their skillbar is to overinflate personal opinion.
Undivine
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Originally Posted by leeky baby
its a good idea i surpose but its qicker to just say on vent or ts then anet having to make some programe to do this ?
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And there are enough of these people that most groups do not use them. Really, are you going to bother connecting to a server for a simple thunderhead keep mission? And when half your group cannot do the same, making you have to use the map and chat bar anyways?
I would definately use this feature. Whenever I join a group that has someone in it who is the same class as me, I want to know their build so I can form my build to compliment theirs. Sure there are pretentious folk like Warskull, but this is such a convenient emote.
MSecorsky
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Originally Posted by Undivine
Not everyone can use TS or Vent. Some people have 56K modems. Some people do not own a microphone. Some people do not like others to hear their voice. Some people do not have a good enough computer to run both GuildWars and a VOIP program.
And there are enough of these people that most groups do not use them. Really, are you going to bother connecting to a server for a simple thunderhead keep mission? And when half your group cannot do the same, making you have to use the map and chat bar anyways? I would definately use this feature. Whenever I join a group that has someone in it who is the same class as me, I want to know their build so I can form my build to compliment theirs. Sure there are pretentious folk like Warskull, but this is such a convenient emote. |
Undivine
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Originally Posted by MSecorsky
Of course there are some folks that would use it properly. However, it opens things up to a greater level of abuse. Most of the kids playing this game can't handle that kind of power. Because the potential abuse FAR outweighs the potential gains, this is a bad idea.
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The "potential abuse" (oh how people love to throw that phrase around with any suggestion) is pretty much already there. People already criticize other's strategies and tell them how to play. That's not going to increase. It simplifies abuse that's going to happen anyway. The gains outweigh the "potential abuse."Besides, as Epinephrine mentioned, you can just not tell them. You can be more general and say "I'm healing" or "I'm spike damage." Sometimes that's even better at communicating your strategy then actually giving them the entire build, since they may not exactly know how you're going to use it to spike damage.
But tell me something: why would you want to group with an asshole like that anyway?
NatalieD
Secorsky, if someone doesn't want you in their group, that's their decision. You're opposed to this idea because you want to sneak into groups where your build isn't wanted? That's damn close to griefing.
shardfenix
So they can tell their skillbar, then change it seconds later? No. This does nothing.
d3kst3r
/signed
Really frustrating trying to organise a pvp group and some idiot in your team decides to go his own way. And also works as a quality assurance meter for those pesky people in common builds who are too noob to admit they don't know what skills to bring and end up bringing absolutely none that help.
Really frustrating trying to organise a pvp group and some idiot in your team decides to go his own way. And also works as a quality assurance meter for those pesky people in common builds who are too noob to admit they don't know what skills to bring and end up bringing absolutely none that help.
Warskull
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Originally Posted by shardfenix
So they can tell their skillbar, then change it seconds later? No. This does nothing.
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Racthoh
No harm in having the option to quickly display your skillbar. Speeds up the progress when someone asks your bar, where's the problem?
zoozoc
all i see this as is a faster alternative to typing out your skill bar. I really dont get where this "abuse" will come from. If someone really wanted to, they could switch there skills right before the emote then switch back. So for all those ppl who like being grievers, you can still do it, this dosnt change anything.
Mindcrime
4-slots of "save build" option and then /skillbar (perfectly for guildmates and friends making team), I don't bother with PUGS, since I haven't been in one for months.
Sister Spice
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Originally Posted by zoozoc
all i see this as is a faster alternative to typing out your skill bar. I really dont get where this "abuse" will come from. If someone really wanted to, they could switch there skills right before the emote then switch back. So for all those ppl who like being grievers, you can still do it, this dosnt change anything.
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I like organising sociable team oriented PUGs - we often discuss our skill bars and it's a pain typing them out (and I am a touch typist). Not everyone has, or wants TS/Vent.
While I will ask people about the type of character they play, I won't insist they play it a specific way or insist they pack specific skills - this is game for fun and I figure people play happier and play better if they're playing something they feel comfortable. On the other hand it's great when monk or rangers or necros (others may apply too) discuss their respective roles and skills before they go.
Sure some people will use it to be arrogant and bossy - but that doesnt mean everyone will- and the recipient still has the choice whether to comply.
Sister Spice
Makkert
/signed.
Display it nicely in teamchat, sounds like a nice little extra trick.
Nothing grand, but I can see it coming usefull in situations.
Display it nicely in teamchat, sounds like a nice little extra trick.
Nothing grand, but I can see it coming usefull in situations.
MSecorsky
The very fact that everyone is salivating over a simple means to control everyone else's build in the party is reason enough to not do it. I've been called a noob because my Tombs monk, in healer mode, brings Bane signet and Smite Hex (being smite skills) by some clueless bugger who thought a healer (5 healing spells plus rez) shouldn't have any smites. But the build works for me, and I have the greens to help back that statement up. However, a /skillbar command might very well have gotten me kicked prior to entry where simply saying that I'm a healer was quite fine.
It's too much power to give the stupid. Simplest way to put it.
It's too much power to give the stupid. Simplest way to put it.
chaos dragoon
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Originally Posted by MSecorsky
The very fact that everyone is salivating over a simple means to control everyone else's build in the party is reason enough to not do it. I've been called a noob because my Tombs monk, in healer mode, brings Bane signet and Smite Hex (being smite skills) by some clueless bugger who thought a healer (5 healing spells plus rez) shouldn't have any smites. But the build works for me, and I have the greens to help back that statement up. However, a /skillbar command might very well have gotten me kicked prior to entry where simply saying that I'm a healer was quite fine.
It's too much power to give the stupid. Simplest way to put it. |
fiery
I liked the idea, than those B/P groups where one brings Posion shot and kindle arrows etc.
Sol_Vie
/signed
Good idea. It's annoying have to type it all out.
Good idea. It's annoying have to type it all out.
Stalker Haras
/signed
Stop the 55 Hp or Smite monks from claiming their Healing monks when you go to FoW or UW.
Stop the 55 Hp or Smite monks from claiming their Healing monks when you go to FoW or UW.
MSecorsky
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Originally Posted by chaos dragoon
I can see smite hex, but what does bane signet contribute to 'healer mode'? It doesnt and assuming you said you were a healer and didnt say you spec'd in smite he would call you a noob for bringing bane signet, because you didnt inform him you would be smiting some, so he got angry.
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Damage prevented is damage I don't need to heal.
Thinking further, this is exactly why it's a bad idea. It takes far too long to explain how Bane Sig works into my healer mode than can be done in game. By the math, for example, my Bane Sig does 65 damage. Now, add that to an over 100 pts damage prevention that those Chaos buggers do in tombs and that's an over 165 pt damage turn around. Not only that, the knockdown gives my fellow squishy time to put a little distance between him/her and it... preventing another attack and more damage. So one Bane Sig costs me zero energy, allows a moment of regen, perhaps prevents a couple hundred points of damage and still can damage the enemy.
Now what helps the party more, me doing this as a healer, having told the party I'm a healer, or someone kicking me because I have Bane Sig and they haven't figured out why.
/not signed. Logic, ftw.
dawnrain
/signed
I've noticed a correlation between build communication and success with missions. Hopefully this will increase the former which will lead to an increase in the latter.
I've noticed a correlation between build communication and success with missions. Hopefully this will increase the former which will lead to an increase in the latter.
R A C
/signed.
Skuld
I am not having wammos calling out their skillbar, it's bad enough with the constant my health is 509/510 (x 11 lines) -_-
Kool Pajamas
/signed
art_
/signed
Positives outweigh any negatives.
Positives outweigh any negatives.
Undivine
Quote:
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Originally Posted by MSecorsky
Now what helps the party more, me doing this as a healer, having told the party I'm a healer, or someone kicking me because I have Bane Sig and they haven't figured out why.
/not signed. Logic, ftw. |
Honestly, this is not going to completely ruin your game. Not even close. How many people ask you to type your whole bar now when you say you're a healer?
Siren
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Originally Posted by MSecorsky
Simple. When I'm a bit low on energy, or when things are slow, I can do a little damage and knock something down. Instead of standing there, I can contribute a little bit of damage prevention by stopping/slowing down an attack.
Damage prevented is damage I don't need to heal. Thinking further, this is exactly why it's a bad idea. It takes far too long to explain how Bane Sig works into my healer mode than can be done in game. By the math, for example, my Bane Sig does 65 damage. Now, add that to an over 100 pts damage prevention that those Chaos buggers do in tombs and that's an over 165 pt damage turn around. Not only that, the knockdown gives my fellow squishy time to put a little distance between him/her and it... preventing another attack and more damage. So one Bane Sig costs me zero energy, allows a moment of regen, perhaps prevents a couple hundred points of damage and still can damage the enemy. Now what helps the party more, me doing this as a healer, having told the party I'm a healer, or someone kicking me because I have Bane Sig and they haven't figured out why. /not signed. Logic, ftw. |
That is neither logical nor valid, because stupid players are going to kick you regardless of this suggestion. That's why they're stupid players. Because they're morons who don't understand dynamic and "new" combat strategies.
Logic, ftw? Not in your argument. lol
/signed
This idea is a solid one. It'd make team build organization a hell of a lot easier and more efficient.
And anyone who says that it's not a solid idea because stupid players will wreck it need to remember that stupid players wreck just about everything, everywhere, so that's not exactly a cogent counter-argument, now is it?
Undivine
I don't want to sound mean or anything, but when people use words like "logic," "valid," or "cogent," I get a bit annoyed at the arrogance those words imply. Perhaps I too will sound arrogant in the rest of this post. I'm sorry to pick on this one, but I see this so much in forums and every time it drives me insane.
MSecorsky's arguement is not valid because it's inductive; not deductive. So validity doesn't come into play here. It is not cogent due to irrelevance of one of the premises, via the slippery slope fallacy.
Please don't say "logic ftw." My analysis is open to debate as is any other, and to openly claim that you are logical suggests that everyone else is being illogical. And that irritates me to no end.
MSecorsky's arguement is not valid because it's inductive; not deductive. So validity doesn't come into play here. It is not cogent due to irrelevance of one of the premises, via the slippery slope fallacy.
Please don't say "logic ftw." My analysis is open to debate as is any other, and to openly claim that you are logical suggests that everyone else is being illogical. And that irritates me to no end.
Esprit
What's the point of having this? If you are with people on your guild, then you won't need it, as you probably have voice chat available to you.
It takes 20 seconds to type out your skill bar.
If you are using to see what other people have on their skills bars, then all it takes is for that person to change their skills after they '/skillbar' .
Potential for abuse in PUGs and PvP is far greater than using it properly.
I prefer them to put enchantment icons next to the players. It would be a lot nicer than having to keep count of when someone's Blood Ritual, Blood is Power, Protective Spirit, etc... runs out. Ever try counting out 5 sets of 12 seconds at different intervals during a battle, not terribly easy.
/not signed
It takes 20 seconds to type out your skill bar.
If you are using to see what other people have on their skills bars, then all it takes is for that person to change their skills after they '/skillbar' .
Potential for abuse in PUGs and PvP is far greater than using it properly.
I prefer them to put enchantment icons next to the players. It would be a lot nicer than having to keep count of when someone's Blood Ritual, Blood is Power, Protective Spirit, etc... runs out. Ever try counting out 5 sets of 12 seconds at different intervals during a battle, not terribly easy.
/not signed
Siren
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Undivine
I don't want to sound mean or anything, but when people use words like "logic," "valid," or "cogent," I get a bit annoyed at the arrogance those words imply. Perhaps I too will sound arrogant in the rest of this post. I'm sorry to pick on this one, but I see this so much in forums and every time it drives me insane.
MSecorsky's arguement is not valid because it's inductive; not deductive. So validity doesn't come into play here. It is not cogent due to irrelevance of one of the premises, via the slippery slope fallacy. Please don't say "logic ftw." My analysis is open to debate as is any other, and to openly claim that you are logical suggests that everyone else is being illogical. And that irritates me to no end. |
Incidentally, my pet peeves seem pretty similar to yours, Undivine. But my biggest pet peeve is when people just don't think something through, and because of that, have to rely on sophomoric and downright stupid and irrelevant nonsense, like the above "logic, ftw" tripe.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Esprit
If you are using to see what other people have on their skills bars, then all it takes is for that person to change their skills after they '/skillbar' .
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Minus Sign
/not signed
A good idea that will never be used, or will be thoroughly abused by players as a chat spam. Some people are secretive of their builds, wanting to avoid releasing the next IWAY on the world but still pwning to their hearts content. If you have a document of a players skillbar in your chat text, you can just copy it to your hearts content and turn your brain off when it comes to toon builds. Thats against Guild Wars basic dreed of player creativity being more important than time spent in game. If all you do is copy builds from All chat, theres no way your playing this game right...and there are plenty people out there happy to do just that.
Worse, the Ctrl+left mouse click mentalitly in game:I have Guardian, Reversal of Fortune, Mend Ailment, Divine Boon, Contemplation of Purity, Smite Hex, Holy Veil and Offering of Blood on my skillbar.I have Guardian, Reversal of Fortune, Mend Ailment, Divine Boon, Contemplation of Purity, Smite Hex, Holy Veil and Offering of Blood on my skillbar.I have Guardian, Reversal of Fortune, Mend Ailment, Divine Boon, Contemplation of Purity, Smite Hex, Holy Veil and Offering of Blood on my skillbar.I have Guardian, Reversal of Fortune, Mend Ailment, Divine Boon, Contemplation of Purity, Smite Hex, Holy Veil and Offering of Blood on my skillbar.I have Guardian, Reversal of Fortune, Mend Ailment, Divine Boon, Contemplation of Purity, Smite Hex, Holy Veil and Offering of Blood on my skillbar.
/shivers.
A good idea that will never be used, or will be thoroughly abused by players as a chat spam. Some people are secretive of their builds, wanting to avoid releasing the next IWAY on the world but still pwning to their hearts content. If you have a document of a players skillbar in your chat text, you can just copy it to your hearts content and turn your brain off when it comes to toon builds. Thats against Guild Wars basic dreed of player creativity being more important than time spent in game. If all you do is copy builds from All chat, theres no way your playing this game right...and there are plenty people out there happy to do just that.
Worse, the Ctrl+left mouse click mentalitly in game:I have Guardian, Reversal of Fortune, Mend Ailment, Divine Boon, Contemplation of Purity, Smite Hex, Holy Veil and Offering of Blood on my skillbar.I have Guardian, Reversal of Fortune, Mend Ailment, Divine Boon, Contemplation of Purity, Smite Hex, Holy Veil and Offering of Blood on my skillbar.I have Guardian, Reversal of Fortune, Mend Ailment, Divine Boon, Contemplation of Purity, Smite Hex, Holy Veil and Offering of Blood on my skillbar.I have Guardian, Reversal of Fortune, Mend Ailment, Divine Boon, Contemplation of Purity, Smite Hex, Holy Veil and Offering of Blood on my skillbar.I have Guardian, Reversal of Fortune, Mend Ailment, Divine Boon, Contemplation of Purity, Smite Hex, Holy Veil and Offering of Blood on my skillbar.
/shivers.
VGJustice
/Signed
I see good things and bad things with this, but I'd like it for the good things.
Bad things I forsee is groups forcing other players to show their skillbar, and if it doesn't meet their exacting standards, they kick you. Would make it danged hard to get a group when you're a Ranger, or a Mesmer, or anything. Some people are pretty picky. Plus, what's to say I couldn't "/skillbar" then change it? So that doesn't really solve anything. I can see that leading to problems in PUGs, vast player hatred... you know, the more things change, the samer they are and all that jazz. And I don't even want to think about abusers of this. I can immagine the level of spam that would create in seconds flat.
On the other hand, I can see this being a useful tool. Say, you're trying to help out a new Guildy with some PvP. I've done this, so I know. You ask them "What skills are you using?" they sit there for about 15-20 minutes, then say "Swordsmanship, Healing Prayrs, and Tactics". Very enlightening, but not what you asked for. It'd be so much easier to say "Guildy, type /skillbar for me" then demonstrate. You could show your bar to them, they show your their bar, you see Gash, Sever, and Mending with 5 stances, and now you've got something to work with. Or, you get into a group as a monk, and see another monk. "Hey other Monk, what kind are you?" /skillbar "That's what I've got." Could be useful.
I see ups and downs, but I think the good outweighs the bad.
I see good things and bad things with this, but I'd like it for the good things.
Bad things I forsee is groups forcing other players to show their skillbar, and if it doesn't meet their exacting standards, they kick you. Would make it danged hard to get a group when you're a Ranger, or a Mesmer, or anything. Some people are pretty picky. Plus, what's to say I couldn't "/skillbar" then change it? So that doesn't really solve anything. I can see that leading to problems in PUGs, vast player hatred... you know, the more things change, the samer they are and all that jazz. And I don't even want to think about abusers of this. I can immagine the level of spam that would create in seconds flat.
On the other hand, I can see this being a useful tool. Say, you're trying to help out a new Guildy with some PvP. I've done this, so I know. You ask them "What skills are you using?" they sit there for about 15-20 minutes, then say "Swordsmanship, Healing Prayrs, and Tactics". Very enlightening, but not what you asked for. It'd be so much easier to say "Guildy, type /skillbar for me" then demonstrate. You could show your bar to them, they show your their bar, you see Gash, Sever, and Mending with 5 stances, and now you've got something to work with. Or, you get into a group as a monk, and see another monk. "Hey other Monk, what kind are you?" /skillbar "That's what I've got." Could be useful.
I see ups and downs, but I think the good outweighs the bad.