I miss mark of pain. - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Studio Ghibli

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2005

Gaelic Storm

01 Mar 2006 at 21:06 - 1

I miss mark of pain.

I miss everything about it.

The sound it made when it fired. The flash of light when you knew it was hitting. The damage.

Everything so wonderful about mark of pain--GONE because of the AoE change. Now the spell's worthless, save for trapping.

Siiiiiigh.

I wish it were allowed back.

Hey, Anet!

How about making MoP an elite and make it so its effect doesn't count as an AoE, like SS?

Count to Potato

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Feb 2006

Imagination Land

I Swear She Was Eighteen [Gwen]

W/

01 Mar 2006 at 21:21 - 2

You are not the only, nukers cry

Hey I had a great nuker... used it to farm even, 55 Monks miss Balthazars Aura... Remember that? So long ago, hey anet change the AoE to like after 3 secs they leave or something??

dont feel no pain

Forge Runner

Join Date: Sep 2005

Uk,Wales

01 Mar 2006 at 21:23 - 3

Quote:

Originally Posted by Studio Ghibli

How about making MoP an elite and make it so its effect doesn't count as an AoE, like SS?

i'll sign to that

/signed

SilentAssassin

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Dec 2005

Belgium

Remnants of Ascalon, KT alliance

R/N

01 Mar 2006 at 21:26 - 4

/not signed

are you also gonna run from it after 3 secs? is your brain that slow?

Studio Ghibli

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2005

Gaelic Storm

01 Mar 2006 at 21:27 - 5

Return MoP to its original form, but make it an elite! I -want- to be able to use this spell again, dammit!

Silent Assassin,

This thread is for mark of pain, not for ellie nukes or monk smites.

You're against returning mark of pain to its original form but also making it an elite?

SilentAssassin

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Dec 2005

Belgium

Remnants of Ascalon, KT alliance

R/N

01 Mar 2006 at 21:29 - 6

yes sry, but I was just answering the other posts... thats also a part of starting a discussion

aB-

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2005

01 Mar 2006 at 21:35 - 7

Quote:

Originally Posted by SilentAssassin

are you also gonna run from it after 3 secs? is your brain that slow?

But the thing is, enemies also attack through spiteful spirit and empathy, and cast spells through backfire. No one else is going to do that but monster AI. However, I do agree that the AoE nerf was for the better.

Lord Scoopula

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2005

Fargo, North Dakota

W/Mo

01 Mar 2006 at 21:41 - 8

As far as I know you can still use the spell...it's not like it was erased.

Mandy Memory

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2005

USA

Xen of Sigils [XoO]

W/

01 Mar 2006 at 21:44 - 9

Sometimes I attack through empathy. My Eviscerate and Exicutioners often kill the mesmer...then I can be healed.

There is no way the AI can make a decision like this, but they could stop casting through backfire. (If empathy made them stop attacking, it would be used to no end...because you wouldnt get attacked....)

Studio Ghibli

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2005

Gaelic Storm

01 Mar 2006 at 21:50 - 10

Well, yes, the spell can still be cast, but everything will run the minute it fires--and, even worse, normally change targets.

Which is a serious pain in the ass to both squishes -and- monks who are hoping to contain damage.

As for the three-second timer, human players sometimes don't recognize they're hexed--or, hell, they do and insist on casting through it anyway. Or maybe they figure, "Just a few seconds longer" and they'll keep on attacking through empathy, hoping to drop the near-dead squishy.

Monsters don't reflect this mentality.

In any case--

Return MoP to its original form, but make it an elite.

Grimm

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Nov 2005

N/

01 Mar 2006 at 22:10 - 11

Mark of Pain has no been changed. Monsters just got slightly smarter.

Stop whining.

Veneficus

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jan 2006

UK

01 Mar 2006 at 22:28 - 12

The effect from MoP isnt that bad, they dont spread that far.

Everyone just wants everything easy in this life.

PVE isnt supposed to be a walk in the park.
If you had MoP on you, and you had 4 team mates next to you...would you stand still and let them take damage?

If yes...then i truly give up with people

AoE nerf wasnt bad at all, it made PvE more challenging (even though it is still way too easy)
Only people who moan are the 'NUKERS' who expect all monsters to stand still and dumbfounded whilst they are hit, if you want this, go play maplestory.

Dont 'Miss' Mark of Pain, its there, as it always had been in your skill list.

/NOT signed.

Good day =]

audra

Academy Page

Join Date: Feb 2006

N/R

01 Mar 2006 at 22:38 - 13

A well placed Mark of Pain is still very effective. Don't make it an elite, I like to use it together with SS

SnoopJeDi

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Nov 2005

Saved By My Pinchers of Peril

R/N

01 Mar 2006 at 22:44 - 14

Mark of Pain is still way useful, maybe YOU need to adapt to the change instead of complaining.

Still, the AoE change has changed some things around (traps

)

Ensign

Just Plain Fluffy

Join Date: Dec 2004

Berkeley, CA

Idiot Savants

01 Mar 2006 at 22:45 - 15

It's the other way around, Spiteful Spirit needs to pick up AoE fear as well.

If they want to make things interesting they need to change the way aggro is handled. Right now once aggro is established on a tank it won't break as long as he doesn't move, or they're chased off by AoE fear. But if aggro would shift upon damage or healing, like it does in many other PvE games, things would get fun. If you cast Healing Seed on a tank the monsters should see the fat heals coming in and shift to its caster in response. If they're getting nailed by AoE they should do the same.

Other games do that, and it puts some additional burdens on PvE gameplay - your warriors have to deal a good amount of damage to keep the monsters interested, and your casters have to be less spammy and more tactical to avoid attracting huge amounts of attention. You can still herd the AI around but it's a lot more difficult, and a lot more, shall I say, realistic than it is now.

Oh and while I'm on the subject of AI would you *please* put the AoE fear on non-monster NPCs? That monk henchmen will still happily tank a Maelstrom and die from it is downright silly when an insect would get out of it in 3 seconds.

Peace,
-CxE

Ira Blinks

Banned

Join Date: Feb 2006

01 Mar 2006 at 23:27 - 16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Studio Ghibli

I miss mark of pain.

I miss everything about it.

The sound it made when it fired. The flash of light when you knew it was hitting. The damage.

Everything so wonderful about mark of pain--GONE because of the AoE change. Now the spell's worthless, save for trapping.

Siiiiiigh.

I wish it were allowed back.

Hey, Anet!

How about making MoP an elite and make it so its effect doesn't count as an AoE, like SS?

The fact that one spell does not omgwtfpwn everything around doesnt make it useless. It is simply require more teamwork now. I use it when farming SF all the time, and people who seeing me casting call me noob, then go like "omg ownage! 0_0".
Seeing whole group of mobs INSTANTLY die after one volley from fiends is very satisfying...

Manic Smile

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2005

Hawaii

----- 15^50[Rare] ---- Alliance: ----- [SMS] -----

02 Mar 2006 at 04:10 - 17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mandy Memory

Sometimes I attack through empathy. My Eviscerate and Exicutioners often kill the mesmer...then I can be healed.

There is no way the AI can make a decision like this, but they could stop casting through backfire. (If empathy made them stop attacking, it would be used to no end...because you wouldnt get attacked....)

If mathematic can do complex multilevel calculus then....yea you can write AI...in fact the government has working learing AI that thinks at a 3 year old lvl at this very moment...and that's the declassified stuff...not saying it's going to happen but it can be done

Divinus Stella

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2005

Wales

Steel Phoenix

02 Mar 2006 at 04:18 - 18

Its not the monster AI that needs updating, its the wammo AI thats needs adjusting, wammos will stand in meteor showers, chaos storms and maelstroms just constantly trying to cast healing breeze, failing to realise the reason they cant cast it is because they are being knockdown and interrupted and have no energy.

Esprit

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2005

Dvd Forums [DVDF]

E/

02 Mar 2006 at 04:20 - 19

Remember Zealot's Fire too? It was so pretty to use with Symbol of Wrath and Balthazar's. All those dancing yellow numbers, made you smile everytime.

master_ranger_matt

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Nov 2005

Salt Lake City, Utah.... no im not mormon

Radicals Against Tyrants [RAT]

R/Me

02 Mar 2006 at 04:38 - 20

It owns with a minion factory still.

wheel

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2005

Topeka, Kansas

Tyrian Fo Lyfe [word]

02 Mar 2006 at 04:45 - 21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Studio Ghibli

Hey, Anet!

How about making MoP an elite and make it so its effect doesn't count as an AoE, like SS?

Yeah, great idea! Let's nerf a skill so that it's abuseable in PvE.

romO

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2005

Chicago

Idiot Savants [iQ]

Mo/

02 Mar 2006 at 04:45 - 22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mandy Memory

Sometimes I attack through empathy. My Eviscerate and Exicutioners often kill the mesmer...then I can be healed.

yeah attacking through empathy/spiteful is definetely the way to go. i usually try to combo it with spamming frenzy and using healing sig. if anyone tries to attack you at that time just hit endure and youre invincible!

anyway, on a serious note... as charlie was saying, other npcs need to attain the same changes. its ridiculous how if you heal a single bodyguard, he can solo every single archer from another team at the flagstand at VoD by casting incindiary bonds, fire storm, and maelstrom because they just stand there and let it kill them all at the same time.

Guillaume De Sonoma

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2005

aFk

Me/Rt

02 Mar 2006 at 05:42 - 23

I've always loved MoP, but the AoE nerf did slow it down. I still say that the skill is usuable. With 8 points in curses its 24 or 26 damage and you can get plenty of damage with it before the foe runs. And if you haven't noticed monsters can't attack you while they run away. It is still usable and it last 30 seconds regardless.

QuixotesGhost

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2005

02 Mar 2006 at 06:06 - 24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

It's the other way around, Spiteful Spirit needs to pick up AoE fear as well.

If they want to make things interesting they need to change the way aggro is handled. Right now once aggro is established on a tank it won't break as long as he doesn't move, or they're chased off by AoE fear. But if aggro would shift upon damage or healing, like it does in many other PvE games, things would get fun. If you cast Healing Seed on a tank the monsters should see the fat heals coming in and shift to its caster in response. If they're getting nailed by AoE they should do the same.

Other games do that, and it puts some additional burdens on PvE gameplay - your warriors have to deal a good amount of damage to keep the monsters interested, and your casters have to be less spammy and more tactical to avoid attracting huge amounts of attention. You can still herd the AI around but it's a lot more difficult, and a lot more, shall I say, realistic than it is now.

Oh and while I'm on the subject of AI would you *please* put the AoE fear on non-monster NPCs? That monk henchmen will still happily tank a Maelstrom and die from it is downright silly when an insect would get out of it in 3 seconds.

Peace,
-CxE

Agreed. PvE in this game doesn't get interesting until aggro breaks. I hope factions makes it nigh-impossible to hold aggro, then perhaps we'll see the return of some of these AoEs becuase you won't have an entire team screaming "OMG WTF NOOB" becuase you broke aggro.

Quote:

yeah attacking through empathy/spiteful is definetely the way to go. i usually try to combo it with spamming frenzy and using healing sig. if anyone tries to attack you at that time just hit endure and youre invincible!

He's right, there's times when it's worth it to attack through SS/Empathy. Don't belittle him for saying so.

Sol_Vie

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2005

Boston, MA

Blood Of Orr [BoO]

02 Mar 2006 at 06:19 - 25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mandy Memory

Sometimes I attack through empathy. My Eviscerate and Exicutioners often kill the mesmer...then I can be healed.

There is no way the AI can make a decision like this, but they could stop casting through backfire. (If empathy made them stop attacking, it would be used to no end...because you wouldnt get attacked....)

Actually it's been seen that some enemies do stop casting spells while Backfire is on them. I've seen them stop skills (not interrupted but stop the skill themselves) mid skill.

Studio Ghibli

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2005

Gaelic Storm

02 Mar 2006 at 06:26 - 26

Well, thanks to those who disagreed with me and supplied a reason as to why.

As for the rest of you who either attacked me or just were plain assholes, die and go to hell.

My fear in -still- using it is that I'm afraid the scatter of the monsters from mark of pain--regardless of the damage--will allow them to switch targets to any number of squishies. In GW's current incarnation, that sucks.

Either way though, people seem to be fine enough with it.

Maybe I'll just do some more testing on it to see how it goes.

dont feel no pain

Forge Runner

Join Date: Sep 2005

Uk,Wales

02 Mar 2006 at 08:01 - 27

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnoopJeDi

Mark of Pain is still way useful, maybe YOU need to adapt to the change instead of complaining.

Still, the AoE change has changed some things around (traps

)

yeah thats right people feel the same way about mark of pain as you feel about traps

Funda

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Sep 2005

Arcane Nexus [ANX]

N/Mo

02 Mar 2006 at 08:16 - 28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Studio Ghibli

I miss mark of pain.

I miss everything about it.

The sound it made when it fired. The flash of light when you knew it was hitting. The damage.

Everything so wonderful about mark of pain--GONE because of the AoE change. Now the spell's worthless, save for trapping.

Siiiiiigh.

I wish it were allowed back.

Hey, Anet!

How about making MoP an elite and make it so its effect doesn't count as an AoE, like SS?

Hmm...funny you mention this. I was in a PUG group -- with 3-4 guildies from [SoR] or something -- for FoW and someone in the group was saying this EXACT same thing. That they miss the effectiveness of Mark and that they wished it was an elite. Anyway, just thought i'd share that.

And if it was you down in fow yesterday, I was the 3rd monk picked up (one too many) in that PUG.

Hmmm, on second thought, I think you were the one down in FoW with me. Mo/Me -- you had to leave or something (your name was karmic something or other...) lol anyway, carry on.

Studio Ghibli

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2005

Gaelic Storm

02 Mar 2006 at 08:33 - 29

Haha.

That was me, actually.

Karmic, yes.

I was so inspired by our FoW run that I made a post here. ;P

ShadowStorm

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2005

Take me where I cannot stand.

The Better Part of Valor

W/N

02 Mar 2006 at 08:56 - 30

Here's a fix that I'd like for Mark of Pain. Change it to read:

For 30 seconds, whenever target foe takes physical damage, adjacent enemies suffer from Health Degeneration of 6 for 1 - 3 seconds. If an enemy already suffering from Health Degeneration caused by Mark of Pain would suffer Health Degeneration from Mark of Pain again, the durations are added, not restarted.

And at Curses Attribute level 14 it would go up to 4 seconds of degen.

For those who didn't understand the wording of the hex, here's an example. Basically, If you have a level 12 Curses and you put Mark of Pain on an enemy, then hit the enemy twice with a sword, the Mark would activate twice. The first time it activates, all enemies adjacent to your target would suffer 3 seconds of degen. When the second blow from your sword hits the hexed target again, the enemies adjacent to it would still have 1 and 2/3 seconds of degen left. So, the second blow would increase the duration of the degen to 4 and 2/3 seconds instead of restarting it at 3 seconds. This way, no damage is lost.

That would effectively put out about the same level of damage as the original Mark of Pain, and enemies wouldn't run from it anymore. Unfortunately, the enemies wouldn't be suffering the damage in spikes anymore, so you'd have to wait out the degen to get the full effect. To truly make a degen based version of Mark of Pain, you'd have to scale the degen higher instead of the duration and the 10 pip degen cap would have to be lifted. Oh well, Se La Vi.

Avarre

Bubblegum Patrol

Join Date: Dec 2005

Singapore Armed Forces

02 Mar 2006 at 10:26 - 31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Veneficus

PVE isnt supposed to be a walk in the park.
If you had MoP on you, and you had 4 team mates next to you...would you stand still and let them take damage?

If yes...then i truly give up with people

You'd be surprised... on the ramps up to the forgemaster, where the shadow rangers + beasts are... casters all stand together to nuke rangers, which happily barrage into multi-MoP'ed targets. And they all scream for heals while spamming into SS.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

You can still herd the AI around but it's a lot more difficult, and a lot more, shall I say, realistic than it is now.

Please don't try to play the 'realism' card, because if we start on that road... well lets say AoEs will be somewhat less comfortable with friendly fire active.

Studio Ghibli

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2005

Gaelic Storm

02 Mar 2006 at 11:30 - 32

A degen-based mop.. interesting.

I'd take that, even. ;D

EF2NYD

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2005

02 Mar 2006 at 11:40 - 33

It's fine the way it is. If they changed MoP, they should change any other scattering AoE (firestorm, balth's aura, etc.). They should really have made SS affected as well (only dumb paladins attack next to each other with SS on them).

WasAGuest

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2006

02 Mar 2006 at 13:57 - 34

This is on topic, though it may sound like it isn't:
I love SS and a chang to it would literally kill the spell for me. It's currently my favorite - adding the "broken" aoe AI to it, would break it. As for MoP, same thing happens. To me, it's the aoe AI that is broken simly because the nearly instant fleeing the AI does. I've seen mobs run before they even take damage from the spell(s).
An AI fix towards the now broken "aoe AI fix" is what is needed.
Mobs need to hold the aggro and return to the person they were attacking before they fled. - This would also make it slightly more difficult as casters couldn't just fire off, say Lava Font, and have foes flee away (a good tactic currently for casters, but needs to be changed). Mobs also need to either react slower or have a chance to flee rather than instantly run away. Should be a damage based chance to flee. As it is, using Lava Font again as an example, having no skill in fire magic (meaning dmg 0 - 3 vs some foes) causes all foes to flee. Why would they flee when they are taking that small amout of damage?
Also makes little since to me in that SS and MoP would cause an instant flee effect, especially on high level mobs. They have so many hit points they should be able to take it for longer while still dishing out damage. This would go a long way to making PvE more difficult and unpredictable, since you are not sure you'll get the result you are looking for.

As always, I refer to PvE only.

WOW, look at all the typos, too early to type it would seem

Griff Mon

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2005

In the Elfen Forests of Washington State

Damage Radius

N/

02 Mar 2006 at 14:45 - 35

Physical attack Monsters keep on plugging away against Shield of Judgement, I see lots of yellows even after the knockdown. They get up and hit again.

natus

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2005

Denmark

02 Mar 2006 at 14:52 - 36

I sure do miss the old days where you could go to fow and the warrior could just take out entire mobs, just because of mark of pain, perhaps it would still work if you used some...water ele stuff.

i'd say, make it an elite and/or lower the damage, that way it's not overpowered, yet useful.

boxterduke

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2005

Walking the ruins of Ascalon

DVDF

Me/

02 Mar 2006 at 18:43 - 37

I was wondering the other day why it was changed to AoE.
I mean if you think about it SS does the same thing plus the hexed foe gets damaged also.
I hope they do not change SS to AoE also.
If they do then bye bye SS/SV necros.

Eugaet

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2005

US

Righteous Apathy [RA]

02 Mar 2006 at 18:57 - 38

I find MoP works well enough when you corner or trap a mob so they can't run. I was having a bit of fun with that in the Furnace last night. Can't do that with henchies, though...

The whole AoE 'nerf' just increases the amount of strategy you have to develop, IMHO. If the tables were turned and MoP (or any AoE spell) was cast on your party, would you all stay huddled together? I'd be trying to get away from the epicenter as quickly as I could, unless I thought I could endure it. I think the change just makes the mobs act more intelligently.

Phoenix Ex

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Nov 2005

Mo/R

02 Mar 2006 at 20:45 - 39

What strategy? What I see is AoE nearly NEVER touched by any group I have seen (except SS and Meteor shower). I can find no way to make firestorm work effectively, even with slow and everything I managed to get 4 hits in before they limped out...now is that worth the 15 nrg cost and the long casting time? Supposedly Mark of Pain still works decently, you get some good damage...then every one is running around dodging once the aggro goes out of control, doing no damage at all, at the end Mop might as well not be used.

I don't know why us AoE users are seen as some sort of lazy bum who doesn't want to think. There is a reason why we HAVE to use aggro control with AoE. Look at the end game mussat bosses, bladed aataxes in UW, the grasping insanity in tombs. lvl 28 monsters with like double our hp, infinite nrg, and ridiculous damage. AoE is like the only thing that kills them at a decent speed (next to minions and SS, which is now the new echo nuker). Not everyone has hours on end to kill all those one by one.

So, what's the new incredible strategy? LF MM and SS necro! everywhere. Now let's nerf these and keep nerfing all the high damage skills until everyone are tearing their hair out trying to kill one aataxe.

I hope Anet fix their half done "AI improvement", lower the monster levels! Fix Orion so the henches can be used again! Decrease the cost for AOE! INcrease AOE damage, Range! Add extra effect on them! Anything!

Felg

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Feb 2006

02 Mar 2006 at 20:55 - 40

I agree 100%

it's so annoying when I got to the desert with my N/W I started having trouble with the build that had previously worked pretty well thru the game...well I started experimenting wiht new builds and finally I managed to find a good build centered around mark of pain...I could take out huge groups of melee mobs in less than 10 secs without any worries...then bam next day AoE-nerf and that build is now useless

so on to experimenting again...sigh.