I have an interesting scenario for you guys.
Earlier tonight I made it to the HoH for the second time, with a fairly skilled, but rather immature guild (lots of inuendo and trash talking) making up the bulk of the team. We managed to win the hall the first time, and I was fortunate enough to get the sigil drop.
Now, after the game, some of the people from this guild insisted that we all roll to see who gets the sigil - which in itself baffled me, because the sigil dropping is random to begin with. This is where the shadyness began.
The rules of this roll were that each individual player would roll to 100, and the one closest to that would get the sigil. The problem was, at least in my eyes, that 6 out of the 8 people on the team were on the same guild, and each had their own shot at the sigil. This clearly stacked the odds against me and the other guy, and it just seems like an all-around scam. I should emphaize that there was no mention of this procedure prior to Hall of Heroes, or prior to the game at all really. It just kinda came up out of nowhere, and had I known prior, I would have never played with these guys.
After a long winded debate (in which I heard some of the most ridiculus excuses like, the game's randomization really isn't random or something), I decided that I would hold onto the sigil and ask around if this was common practice (which, from previous experience and those who I've already talked to, say it isn't).
The only reason I'm going out of my way to find out is because I firmly believe in fair play, and in the off chance this actually is common, then I will go ahead and do the right thing, despite the fact that I was arguing with a bunch of 9 year olds.
I would appreciate any input that you guys have, especially if you've previously won the sigil in the HoH.
Was someone trying to scam me?
TiC
Than
I guess you could call it a scam. You and the other guy each had one chance to use it, the 6 other guildies had 6 chances to use it.
Rushing Wind
I haven't had the opportunity to win the sigil in the HoH... I would love that opportunity though. My advice... (take it for what its worth)
If something like that happens then just tell them you're off to find another group to play with. IMO, it definitely was a scam since the drops are as random as any other drop in the game. If there were 6 of them in one guild out of 8 players then they shouldn't have a problem going back in and running the gammit again in order to get their own drop.
Keep the sigil and do what you will with it. Tell the 9 year olds you played with that they've got plenty of opportunities to get the drop too... they just gotta go through again.
Don't be a pushover when it comes to things that are that important. Good for you for what you did. Now, if you have to get in touch with them, just let them know its yours and thats final. What are they gonna do? Come after you personally?
If something like that happens then just tell them you're off to find another group to play with. IMO, it definitely was a scam since the drops are as random as any other drop in the game. If there were 6 of them in one guild out of 8 players then they shouldn't have a problem going back in and running the gammit again in order to get their own drop.
Keep the sigil and do what you will with it. Tell the 9 year olds you played with that they've got plenty of opportunities to get the drop too... they just gotta go through again.
Don't be a pushover when it comes to things that are that important. Good for you for what you did. Now, if you have to get in touch with them, just let them know its yours and thats final. What are they gonna do? Come after you personally?
TiC
Well, I really don't care what they do. I mean they were making some idle threats about blacklisting or whatever, but who cares, I don't even have a real guild yet
I play a lot of tombs PvP with good pick-up groups and this is the first real problem I've had, so I wanted to make absolutely sure that I wasn't in the wrong here, because I really do believe in fair play.
Even though it seems pretty obvious, you just never know.
I play a lot of tombs PvP with good pick-up groups and this is the first real problem I've had, so I wanted to make absolutely sure that I wasn't in the wrong here, because I really do believe in fair play.
Even though it seems pretty obvious, you just never know.
Cirolle
My suggestion would be to offer them the sigil... for a fair price 
You won it in the first place, why would you have to random for it again?
You won it in the first place, why would you have to random for it again?
dansamy
It's not technically a scam, but it is certainly not sportsmanlike. The computer already "rolled" to see who the drop belongs to.
Omega_2005
Is the hall of heroes only accessible when all of the main story missions are complete? (if there is a thread, please post the link)
Pevil Lihatuh
I guess it coulda been a scam... the casino scam that has been mentioned could well have been employed against you. Personally like everyone else has said, it was your drop fair and square and, just like that gold sword you might find out in PvE, its entirely up to you to sell, salvage or just collect 
Ramus
Eh, its not really a scam. Its just that they want a shot at the sigil. It just depends on how you view it, if you think its yours, take it, if you think they deserve a chance at it (since they helped get it) then let them roll. Its more of a moral issue then anything else. There may have been 6 of them, but that also means they did that more more of the work for you to get it. Just my opinion.
Rizzen Khalazar
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Originally Posted by dansamy
It's not technically a scam, but it is certainly not sportsmanlike. The computer already "rolled" to see who the drop belongs to.
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xakia
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Originally Posted by TiC
I have an interesting scenario for you guys.
Earlier tonight I made it to the HoH for the second time, with a fairly skilled, but rather immature guild (lots of inuendo and trash talking) making up the bulk of the team. We managed to win the hall the first time, and I was fortunate enough to get the sigil drop. Now, after the game, some of the people from this guild insisted that we all roll to see who gets the sigil - which in itself baffled me, because the sigil dropping is random to begin with. This is where the shadyness began. The rules of this roll were that each individual player would roll to 100, and the one closest to that would get the sigil. The problem was, at least in my eyes, that 6 out of the 8 people on the team were on the same guild, and each had their own shot at the sigil. This clearly stacked the odds against me and the other guy, and it just seems like an all-around scam. I should emphaize that there was no mention of this procedure prior to Hall of Heroes, or prior to the game at all really. It just kinda came up out of nowhere, and had I known prior, I would have never played with these guys. After a long winded debate (in which I heard some of the most ridiculus excuses like, the game's randomization really isn't random or something), I decided that I would hold onto the sigil and ask around if this was common practice (which, from previous experience and those who I've already talked to, say it isn't). The only reason I'm going out of my way to find out is because I firmly believe in fair play, and in the off chance this actually is common, then I will go ahead and do the right thing, despite the fact that I was arguing with a bunch of 9 year olds. I would appreciate any input that you guys have, especially if you've previously won the sigil in the HoH. |
You should have filled your ignore list with these people. Thats rediculous.
gwden
In some games when you're in groups, the loot is only allowed to be picked up by a certain person, usually the leader. So in those cases, the members of the group actually roll on items after the session. In this case, however, the roll has already made, so rolling again is unnecessary. Those players knew it and tried to take advantage of your ignorance. Yes, it's a scam.
Mountain Man
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Originally Posted by TiC
After a long winded debate...
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Lasher Dragon
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Originally Posted by Mountain Man
You mean you didn't laugh in their faces right off the bat? That's what I would have done.
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Soul Monarch
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Originally Posted by TiC
Now, after the game, some of the people from this guild insisted that we all roll to see who gets the sigil...
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Simply by having six people in the party, they had a 75% chance of winning that Sigil. You happened to get lucky and get it instead. That is completely fair.
Rolling for it afterwards is a lot like deciding that you should re-roll your attack in a game of Risk because you didn't think that 3 armies should be able to beat your 20 armies. Or, for you slightly nerdier folks, it's like re-rolling because you didn't beat a DC 28 trap and really don't want to get caught fried by lightning.
I'd say tell 'em to suck it down, and accept the fact that you won it fair and square.
Jana
It's yours. Random roll was already done. Rolling again would be stupid, though if they are not your guild, I would roll anyway just to get their hopes up (the bums) and if I won I would laugh even harder, and if I lost... well I could always disconnect and come back saying that I crashed and now I do not have it any more, time to file a ticket with support.
Don't even bother worrying about it. They are just sore losers. EVERYTHING that drops in this game in some way is random and already done by the system. PERIOD.
Jana
Don't even bother worrying about it. They are just sore losers. EVERYTHING that drops in this game in some way is random and already done by the system. PERIOD.
Jana
egads
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Originally Posted by TiC
The only reason I'm going out of my way to find out is because I firmly believe in fair play, and in the off chance this actually is common, then I will go ahead and do the right thing, despite the fact that I was arguing with a bunch of 9 year olds.
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jdwoody
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| After a long winded debate (in which I heard some of the most ridiculus excuses like, the game's randomization really isn't random or something) |
Did this just happen last night? A week ago someone was complaining from the other side of the fence (they wanted a roll) and they were overwhelmingly told that they were in the wrong.
If the sigil always went to the leader or if it just sat there for the first person to grab it I could see rolling for it, but I seriously doubt if one of their members got the sigil there would be any discussion about rolling...
Rothgar
The ONLY way it would have been fair is if you all had previously agreed to dice it in the event your group got it. I know some people don't like how GW assigns drops for rares so they do it this way.
However, if there was no agreement before hand to handle it with dicing, then its yours fair and square.
However, if there was no agreement before hand to handle it with dicing, then its yours fair and square.
JohnCoke
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Originally Posted by Ramus
Eh, its not really a scam. Its just that they want a shot at the sigil. It just depends on how you view it, if you think its yours, take it, if you think they deserve a chance at it (since they helped get it) then let them roll. Its more of a moral issue then anything else. There may have been 6 of them, but that also means they did that more more of the work for you to get it. Just my opinion.
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If the drops aren't random, what makes them think that the dice roll will be?
But quite frankly from where I stand, they're are 6 of them and it was obvious what they're aiming for. I'd let them have it, they did the work made the build but just quite didn't have enough people to fill it up. So they hope and pray that 6 out of 8 is good enough chances... it wasn't. Can't blame them for trying, also for sigils selling for $40+ on ebay... the other people calling them a whiny guild and laugh in their face... you disgust me. I already have a guild hall, and you disgust me.
Your the reason why sigils are what they are instead of what the devs intended. Hope they get it fixed soon.
Manderlock
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Originally Posted by JohnCoke
Agreed. It's a moral issue..
If the drops aren't random, what makes them think that the dice roll will be? But quite frankly from where I stand, they're are 6 of them and it was obvious what they're aiming for. I'd let them have it, they did the work made the build but just quite didn't have enough people to fill it up. So they hope and pray that 6 out of 8 is good enough chances... it wasn't. Can't blame them for trying, also for sigils selling for $40+ on ebay... the other people calling them a whiny guild and laugh in their face... you disgust me. I already have a guild hall, and you disgust me. Your the reason why sigils are what they are instead of what the devs intended. Hope they get it fixed soon. |
And you disgust me.
There is no reason that the the OP should have given up the sigil. He/she got it fair and square. Simply because they where ulucky they threaten the OP and I'm shure call him/her nasty names. It was a random drop they had a better chance to get it when it droped than the OP and the other guy. The only reason the wanted to dice roll was so that they could play the odds again.
I would have laughed to if they where threating me.
Redfang
This is my rule.
People agree to loot distribution when the group is formed;
-or-
People live with the loot distribution the game randomly assigns.
If I had been told when I joined the group, hey, "if a sigil drops we are all going to roll for it, ok?", and if I had randomly been awarded the sigil, I would have honored my promise.
But absent such an agreement, no way am I giving up loot I can use because someone belatedly decides everyone should roll. They can get as mad as they want, and that's just tough noogies.
People agree to loot distribution when the group is formed;
-or-
People live with the loot distribution the game randomly assigns.
If I had been told when I joined the group, hey, "if a sigil drops we are all going to roll for it, ok?", and if I had randomly been awarded the sigil, I would have honored my promise.
But absent such an agreement, no way am I giving up loot I can use because someone belatedly decides everyone should roll. They can get as mad as they want, and that's just tough noogies.
JohnCoke
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Originally Posted by Manderlock
And you disgust me.
There is no reason that the the OP should have given up the sigil. He/she got it fair and square. Simply because they where ulucky they threaten the OP and I'm shure call him/her nasty names. It was a random drop they had a better chance to get it when it droped than the OP and the other guy. The only reason the wanted to dice roll was so that they could play the odds again. I would have laughed to if they where threating me. |
Never said it wasn't a fair drop and that he didn't have the right to keep it. Read the posts
Jana
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Originally Posted by JohnCoke
But quite frankly from where I stand, they're are 6 of them and it was obvious what they're aiming for. I'd let them have it, they did the work made the build but just quite didn't have enough people to fill it up.
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Good one. Yeah, I too would just give away 60,000 GOLD for no reason... once I hit the max of 100 Platinum in my inventory and 1000 Platinum in my bank... sure they can have it.
Killing me. LOL.
Jana
Mountain Man
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Originally Posted by JohnCoke
the other people calling them a whiny guild and laugh in their face... you disgust me.
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TiC
To be honest, I'm the kind of person who plays in the tombs to have a little fun, maybe win a few games, and that's that. I never have played to win the sigil, and don't necessarily care much if the drop goes to someone else. I'm even open to the possibility of selling the sigil and splitting the profits among those who played.
With that said, attitude is also important to me. I had a bad feeling from the moment they started trash talking the Koreans and drawing sexual organs on the compass that something like this would go down. Now that you guys have confirmed what I pretty much already knew, I see no reason to extend this courtesy to them. They tried to rip me off, were extremely rude about it, made constant threats which were laughable at best, and were all around being children about the situation.
Thanks for the input by the way guys, it's greatly appreciated.
With that said, attitude is also important to me. I had a bad feeling from the moment they started trash talking the Koreans and drawing sexual organs on the compass that something like this would go down. Now that you guys have confirmed what I pretty much already knew, I see no reason to extend this courtesy to them. They tried to rip me off, were extremely rude about it, made constant threats which were laughable at best, and were all around being children about the situation.
Thanks for the input by the way guys, it's greatly appreciated.
Jana
You know, it's not that we have no morals. Just yesterday, I sold a minor rune of absorption for 500 gold to an elemnetalist / warrior (interesting combo I though in that direction) who thought it could be used by everyone, not just warrior primaries.
She told me, and sighed, but did not ask for money back or some such crap. I contacted her a few seconds after and offered to refund her money for the rune back. She was stunned I would do that, and all was well, since we both lost nothing. Notice, she did not ask me to roll for the rune before she bought it, to have a shot at getting it free. It was my drop. Period, end of discussion.
IF I go into a group for ANY mission, I expect everyone to do their job and the system to randomly drop items for us. This is a RULE, not an exception.
IF you want a random item from me... unless I like you, owe you one or are in my guild and not a useless pieces of crap, then you pay. PERIOD. Helps to get this 10 second understanding out of the way right off the bat too.
Jana
She told me, and sighed, but did not ask for money back or some such crap. I contacted her a few seconds after and offered to refund her money for the rune back. She was stunned I would do that, and all was well, since we both lost nothing. Notice, she did not ask me to roll for the rune before she bought it, to have a shot at getting it free. It was my drop. Period, end of discussion.
IF I go into a group for ANY mission, I expect everyone to do their job and the system to randomly drop items for us. This is a RULE, not an exception.
IF you want a random item from me... unless I like you, owe you one or are in my guild and not a useless pieces of crap, then you pay. PERIOD. Helps to get this 10 second understanding out of the way right off the bat too.
Jana
Roken
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Originally Posted by TiC
I have an interesting scenario for you guys.
[U]The only reason I'm going out of my way to find out is because I firmly believe in fair play, and in the off chance this actually is common, then I will go ahead and do the right thing, despite the fact that I was arguing with a bunch of 9 year olds.[/U] |
Ramus
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Originally Posted by Jana
Good one. Yeah, I too would just give away 60,000 GOLD for no reason... once I hit the max of 100 Platinum in my inventory and 1000 Platinum in my bank... sure they can have it. Killing me. LOL. Jana |
Jana
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Originally Posted by Ramus
Oh yea, we all know how hard money is to get in Guild Wars and how many things you can buy with it.
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Cool, since it is so easy for you...
Character name is: Jana Marie (by the way, this is my real life first and middle name as well)
... shoot me a whisper where I can pick up all the extra money you have just laying around. I should be in game tonight at some point. You wait for me Mr. Moneybags
Thanks in advance.
Jana
Ramus
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Originally Posted by Jana
Cool, since it is so easy for you...
Character name is: Jana Marie (by the way, this is my real life first and middle name as well) ... shoot me a whisper where I can pick up all the extra money you have just laying around. I should be in game tonight at some point. You wait for me Mr. Moneybags Thanks in advance. Jana |
JohnCoke
Very well put Ramus, agreed. Never said it wasn't a fair drop, never said he didn't have the right to keep it, and never said they we're doing a good job of "asking nicely" or being good sportsman.
Simply put, if it was somebody with a different set of morals (Ramus and I evidently), we'd given the sigil to those who worked hardest for it and put the most in. If I was the guy who plays a few rounds for fun as TiC so blatantly put it.... then what the hell is the problem with giving them the sigil?
Simply put, if it was somebody with a different set of morals (Ramus and I evidently), we'd given the sigil to those who worked hardest for it and put the most in. If I was the guy who plays a few rounds for fun as TiC so blatantly put it.... then what the hell is the problem with giving them the sigil?
IxChel
There are deals that I have made when filling-in another guild's open slot. I agreed to give them the sigal if it dropped to me; they agreed (regardless of the sigal) to give me at least one gold drops if I didn't get one. It was a fair deal; we didn't win the HoH, so the contract was mute. However, if we had won the HoH, I would have followed-up with my side of the contract.
Jana
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Originally Posted by JohnCoke
then what the hell is the problem with giving them the sigil?
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((Last post on this thread.))
The difference is about 60,000 gold. Or 1 surperior vigor rune. Or 1 of every OTHER surperior rune out there. Or ALL 4 different Uber GOLD weapons. Or... etc.
Oh, if you say money is worth nothing and easy to get, you know my character name, just shoot me a whisper.
There it is, plain and simple. If, IF a team wins, then EVERYONE did their best and EVERYONE gets a fair shot at the rewards (determined by the system in this case). Since this is so hard for you to understand, I hope to one day group with you Cash Cows and rake it in, even if we all did our best.
Jana
JohnCoke
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Originally Posted by Jana
((Last post on this thread.))
The difference is about 60,000 gold. Or 1 surperior vigor rune. Or 1 of every OTHER surperior rune out there. Or ALL 4 different Uber GOLD weapons. Or... etc. Oh, if you say money is worth nothing and easy to get, you know my character name, just shoot me a whisper. There it is, plain and simple. If, IF a team wins, then EVERYONE did their best and EVERYONE gets a fair shot at the rewards (determined by the system in this case). Since this is so hard for you to understand, I hope to one day group with you Cash Cows and rake it in, even if we all did our best. Jana |
I have 3k in gold, had one sigil sold it for 5k. Matter of morals. Yours are different... obviously. I don't spend time massively farming, but I know honesty and truth. And if your going to sit there and lie about how 1 person has put as much effort in as a group of 6 in the same guild... pfft. Really different morals
SOT
I would have walked away with the damn sigil
Lasher Dragon
I suppose it would be kinda fun to tell 'em "Sure, let's dice for it - Odds I win Evens you lose" and roll the dice. "I win, gg guys" and leave.
Soul Monarch
Selling the sigil for gold is completely pointless as far as I'm concerned. I don't need to money, I find plenty of it laying around anyways.
It's quite simple:
If you don't have a Guild Hall and you need one, keep it.
If you have a Guild Hall, and they do not, give it to them.
If you have a Guild Hall, and so do they, keep it to sell.
The Sigil was yours by right (you only had a 12.5% chance, and you got lucky.) If your only use for it is to sell it and they still need a Hall, I'd give it to them. Other than that, keep it and use it for your own purposes.
It's quite simple:
If you don't have a Guild Hall and you need one, keep it.
If you have a Guild Hall, and they do not, give it to them.
If you have a Guild Hall, and so do they, keep it to sell.
The Sigil was yours by right (you only had a 12.5% chance, and you got lucky.) If your only use for it is to sell it and they still need a Hall, I'd give it to them. Other than that, keep it and use it for your own purposes.
Rahne Sinclaire
I think the best solution is to just give me the sigil and pretend it never happened.
Who's with me?!
In all seriousness... it's YOUR sigil. Don't roll for it, that's just nonsense. Had they stated their conditions BEFORE you won it, it might have been a little better... but as it is, I just say to keep it. Congrats, by the way.
Who's with me?!
In all seriousness... it's YOUR sigil. Don't roll for it, that's just nonsense. Had they stated their conditions BEFORE you won it, it might have been a little better... but as it is, I just say to keep it. Congrats, by the way.
Harlas Kije
Moral issues?
How about the 6 guild members in the group who never said anything at all about a sigil drop--either going to them or rolling dice until AFTER it was dropped? Being fair about it--they should have discussed this prior to the drop--before they even got going. In my opinion they did not thinking that if they did get it--it would more than likely go to them. Morally--they should have offered a dice roll among the 3 guilds there not each player. Also--consider this--what would they have said to the OP if one of them got it and HE suggested they roll???
Not sure where morals are in question here concerning the OP. If they had mentioned prior to him running with them-that they were only going for a sigil--then morals would be a question.
By bringing it up AFTER it dropped with his name on it is unfair to him. He should have had the choice to decide whether or not he wanted to group with them under the condition that there would be a roll for a sigil--by not giving him that option in the beginning only questions there "morals" or underlying motives.
How about the 6 guild members in the group who never said anything at all about a sigil drop--either going to them or rolling dice until AFTER it was dropped? Being fair about it--they should have discussed this prior to the drop--before they even got going. In my opinion they did not thinking that if they did get it--it would more than likely go to them. Morally--they should have offered a dice roll among the 3 guilds there not each player. Also--consider this--what would they have said to the OP if one of them got it and HE suggested they roll???
Not sure where morals are in question here concerning the OP. If they had mentioned prior to him running with them-that they were only going for a sigil--then morals would be a question.
By bringing it up AFTER it dropped with his name on it is unfair to him. He should have had the choice to decide whether or not he wanted to group with them under the condition that there would be a roll for a sigil--by not giving him that option in the beginning only questions there "morals" or underlying motives.