Should fame/rank be binded to characters or to your account?

whiskas

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Mar 2005

PvP characters are going to be alot more useful now that you can customize every aspect of them. The underlying purpose of RP characters is go on treasure hunts for skills and runes. And with only 4 slots this is going to mean that deleting your characters will be a fairly routine ordeal. Supposedly the skills and runes that characters had available to them will be saved to your account. But what about the rank/fame they accumulated? It would make more sense to make rank/fame tied to your account rather than to a single character.

For example, suppose that you finally found a rune you've been hunting for months. Your main PvP character has over 200 fame points and could really use this rune, but in order to put it in their armor you have to delete your character and recreate them with the rune, but you just lost all that fame to simply modify your character.

Wouldn't it make more sense to use the fame/rank system as a symbol of a player's success rather than a symbol of an individual character's success? So if you win a match all your characters in your account gain fame, instead of just 1.

Weezer_Blue

Weezer_Blue

Elite Guru

Join Date: Feb 2005

Just a Box in a Cage

Hurry Up The Cakes [Oven]

I'd like it more if it was tied to your account because then it represents you - not your characters. I was under the impression that the game was skill and tactically based and if that is so, then it's not going to vary much from character to character. That and it'd suck to delete someone with a 300 fame staff and start anew if you had or wanted to.

velgar

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Mar 2005

Good point, But I think it's more likely that your main pvp character will be an RP char. Mostly because they are more customizable then pvp character and you'll have to lvl most of them anyway before you can make decent pvp character, so why not keep your RP?

Aria

Aria

Sig Fairy

Join Date: Feb 2005

Once upon a time..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Weezer_Blue
I'd like it more if it was tied to your account because then it represents you - not your characters. I was under the impression that the game was skill and tactically based and if that is so, then it's not going to vary much from character to character. That and it'd suck to delete someone with a 300 fame staff and start anew if you had or wanted to.
I have thought about this subject before.. and I do agree with Weezer. I would absolutely love it if it were tied to your account instead.

However, I guess it might make sense to have it be character based if you argue on the basis that fame also is an indication of how well you use that particular character combination. So, in that argument, a person might have fame as a reward for being a wonderful monk/mesmer.. but he/she might be awful at being a ranger, and so wouldn't have the fame as the reward attached to that particular role.

But I'm just lazy, and I tend to sway towards the human weakness for fame.

Like Milton said, "Fame is the spur that the clear spirit doth raise.. (That last infirmity of noble mind) ..." And those sticks, although it's a head with tusks in the first few ranks, do have that pretty light gravitating around it...

macattack

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Mar 2005

oh man, definately account. characters come and go. but your character is going to be there as long as you play.

Trexton

Trexton

Banned

Join Date: Feb 2005

If asked previously, i would say characters, but after this BWE i would say account. It should represent YOU, not your character. With the PvP changes I found myself remake a character about 5-10 times before even applying runes. And yes i did lose my 200+ fame monk

7th Angel

7th Angel

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Feb 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by velgar
Good point, But I think it's more likely that your main pvp character will be an RP char. Mostly because they are more customizable then pvp character and you'll have to lvl most of them anyway before you can make decent pvp character, so why not keep your RP?
No, your main PvP character will likely be a level 20 PvP only character because you would simply remake it if you want to change anything. The PvP characters are actually MORE customizable because you will have access to everything you unlock.

Because it will be fairly common practice to remake PvP characters now that this new system is in place, I would hope that fame would be account based - just as your guild's rank is not based on the composition of your team, rather it is a measure of how you perform overall.

Weezer_Blue

Weezer_Blue

Elite Guru

Join Date: Feb 2005

Just a Box in a Cage

Hurry Up The Cakes [Oven]

i can vouch for that. i tested at least 30 builds this weekend. and that was just on sundary night when i learned of how easy it was (i was previously PvEing and stuff with a friend). I like my RPG characters - but after I unlock all this stuff for all of them, it'll be a cold day in hell when I completely make an RPG guy from scratch to suit a build.

Losandros

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Mar 2005

Wow, im really 50/50 on this one. Everyone said why account fame is important but lets not forget like Aria said, just because your skilled with one character doesnt mean you are equally as skilled with another character.This could result in misleading problems. Maybe there should be a way to show not only how 'famous' your account is but also with which characters you are 'famous' for. That way people with many different 'famous' chars would be even more prestigous and regarded even higher for their ability to adapt to different characters.

xaanix

xaanix

Academy Page

Join Date: Jan 2005

Woodbridge NJ

[Nu] Nuclear Launch Detected

W/E

Quote:
Originally Posted by Losandros
Wow, im really 50/50 on this one. Everyone said why account fame is important but lets not forget like Aria said, just because your skilled with one character doesnt mean you are equally as skilled with another character.This could result in misleading problems. Maybe there should be a way to show not only how 'famous' your account is but also with which characters you are 'famous' for. That way people with many different 'famous' chars would be even more prestigous and regarded even higher for their ability to adapt to different characters.
By that reasoning you should reset someone's fame every time they remake their build, since for example, my IW mesmer plays entirely different than my shutdown mesmer. Just because i'm good at IW doesnt mean i'm good at shutdown right?

Reality is that it really doesnt matter a whole lot. Fame is a mark of battle experience that a player has been through. I'd prefer to see account based fame, especially with this new system in place. Also, if pvp rewards based on fame are ever implemented (and those rewards affect your account, which i assume they would based on the skill unlock system) then i'd want to see account based fame as well. Noone wants to be locked into a character, just because 'at 1000 fame i get to unlock Power Block'...

Ellestar

Ellestar

Munchking

Join Date: Mar 2005

Russian Federation, Moscow

Ladder to Hell (ATM playing with Rus Corp)

Account fame is better. After all, if someone have a high fame on one char, then he'll be good with another char because of the PvP experience and good teamwork.
If there will be a per-character fame, then players that play different characters will be heavily penaltized despite the fact that they're more experienced with a different types of PvP characters.

Kyraith Mentara

Academy Page

Join Date: Mar 2005

Character fame...in a sense each character should be considered a differnt person. In a RP sense this has even more importance because each of your characters has a differnt history behind him and shouldnt be tied to your other characters, you should have to work with each character individualy to gain their particular fame, because its their name, not yours, that is gaining it.

efiloN

efiloN

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Feb 2005

I would vote for account fame. The fame unlockables will be balanced to every other piece of item or skill, so using the fame to boost characters through the game wouldn't be a problem.

You can always roleplay you are a family member who needs to live up to his dead father or something.

The people always rerolling would just stop to care about fame if they lost it everytime they got tired of a build.

They're doing account storage and account-wide membership in guilds. Wouldn't that be the same as having account fame?

Sausaletus Rex

Sausaletus Rex

Death From Above

Join Date: Dec 2004

Quote:
Originally Posted by Losandros
Everyone said why account fame is important but lets not forget like Aria said, just because your skilled with one character doesnt mean you are equally as skilled with another character.This could result in misleading problems.
Fame is misleading in and of itself. It's cummulative, you just keep piling it up and you never lose any unlike the comparaitive ranking of, say, the guild ladder. High fame is not necessarily representative of being a good player but of being a player who's spent a lot of time gaining fame. There's no difference between a rank earned through one massive, hour long Tombs run from a rank compiled through just winning a match or two at a time except the time it takes. Over a beta weekeed there's not much time so you can pretty much assume high fame means a good player (Or at least a player good enough to be on a team that took the Hall and held it a while which can be different) but come release and after people have been playing for weeks and months, fame ranks are going to be highly deceptive. That poor player who spends two hours a day in a PUG at the Tombs is going to be a lot more famous than that newly minted player who's stellar but is just trying out PvP whether it's character or account based.

That said, behold my glory as I give unto you a poll. I'm also in favor of acount based fame as long as they're going to have account based PvP characters, storage, and the like. There's something to be said for sticking with one character, with the attachment and meaning that making character important provides, but it really flies in the face of the pick up and play sense of the rest of the game.

William of Orange

William of Orange

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Feb 2005

La Crosse, Wisconsin

Thousand Tigers Apund Ur Head, The Consulate

I'm not entirely sure what to think for this one, but I voted for Character based, just because you've only been earning that fame using one character after putting all the time and effort into leveling them up and finding excellent weapons and skills. To me, it would seem weird to have a newly created Level 1 character who has the fame of an extremely successful Level 20 character; just doesn't seem right to me. I can see how you would want to have it tied to your account though too, since you have put all that effort into the game and you would want to keep all that Fame with you.

Taranis

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2005

Anyways...what's the difference between a LvL 20 RP Character and a LvL 20 PvP-Only Character?? Why don't you guys just treasure-hunt with the RP Char and ones he's LvL 20 enter PvP with it?? Ways easier to costumize in my view...or is there a bigger difference between the RP and PvP Chars I don't know about yet?

Tur713

Tur713

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Feb 2005

Pink Animal Clan

E/Me

I think there could be a little of both, mostly on the character because they are supposed to be people in themselves, they should have their own merit because of who they are rather than the player that makes them. I think there should also be a way to turn off showing your fame because there's just some people who don't care about it and may just run in to PvP and such recklessly just for the fun of it to see how long they could last or whatever. I think some people would depend too heavily upon this feature and just judge people based purely on that.

Aria

Aria

Sig Fairy

Join Date: Feb 2005

Once upon a time..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taranis
Anyways...what's the difference between a LvL 20 RP Character and a LvL 20 PvP-Only Character?? Why don't you guys just treasure-hunt with the RP Char and ones he's LvL 20 enter PvP with it?? Ways easier to costumize in my view...or is there a bigger difference between the RP and PvP Chars I don't know about yet?
Well, a purely pvp player might run through multiple builds in one week.. or even one day. The problem is the amount of time (even if it's a few days to a week) of bringing a new character from level 1 to level 20, along with gears, runes, skills, etc.

For people with only one account, this might mean frequent deletions.. and well.. the lost fame does sort of make me wince.

Nash

Nash

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2005

Sweden

The Cornerstone

Account. A character is a tool, in itself nothing. It's the player that puts it to use that makes it work.

Harley

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Feb 2005

Fort Ranik (moving soon to Lion's Arch)

So this means when I create my 2nd character they walk out to Gwen with 200-300 fame (nepotism i suppose) Hope she doesn't fry you cause you're famous

Many good arguments on account side

How about a way to use both?

New Character has none but some type of account Tracker

whiskas

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Mar 2005

It's somewhat irrelevant how you'll have plenty of rank whenever you start a lvl 1 character. If you play a couple hours a day you can get yourself to lvl 20 in a week. I'd rather look awkward running around old ascalon with a pretty golden rod, than end up losing the rewards of hundreds of PvP wins.

Harley

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Feb 2005

Fort Ranik (moving soon to Lion's Arch)

If character has no benefit to the fame at all then it should be account based - but if character is twinked at all - thats just a road that should never be traveled IMO

Ellestar

Ellestar

Munchking

Join Date: Mar 2005

Russian Federation, Moscow

Ladder to Hell (ATM playing with Rus Corp)

Well, i care less about a PvE chars, but PvP chars should share fame because now they're expendable by a game design. Probably that way all will be happy - roleplayers that will use their precious PvE chars with a different levels, personalities and fame and PvP players that will use mostly PvP chars in PvP with a shared fame.

****

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tur713
I think some people would depend too heavily upon this feature and just judge people based purely on that.
Top guild tags mean a lot too. Other than that, how do you want to judge players if you're making a PUG? Yes, Fame is not a good reflection of a skill, but still a player with high fame in average will be more skilled in GW PvP than a player with low fame.

Weezer_Blue

Weezer_Blue

Elite Guru

Join Date: Feb 2005

Just a Box in a Cage

Hurry Up The Cakes [Oven]

I really doubt I'll have a constant character that I'll keep forever. Maybe one PvE guy that I'll hold on to as long as I can just because he's far along in the story... But PvP guys? I'll be swapping them out every day once I unlock stuff. Fame should be acount based because as (the) Nash said, you're characters are just tools and in my oppinion, if you suck with one class, you're going to suck with the others as well.

Netrol

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Feb 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by Weezer_Blue
I'd like it more if it was tied to your account because then it represents you - not your characters. I was under the impression that the game was skill and tactically based and if that is so, then it's not going to vary much from character to character. That and it'd suck to delete someone with a 300 fame staff and start anew if you had or wanted to.
You make the assumption that every player would do just as good no matter what character they used. I find that hard to believe. There are some that might have that ability but not everyone. And if its not a problem for someone to get a high fame level with one character than it should't be a problem for them to get it again with the second or third character.

Kha

Kha

Sins FTW!

Join Date: Mar 2005

USA

Angel Sharks [AS]

I voted account. While fame does in a way reflect your skills at playing the particularly character, who is to say that they really deserve the fame all the time? Even with one character you will likely try out different skill builds (like I did) and I wasn't always powerful or helpful with each one. I made mistakes and I learned from it. Account fame would show that this person has most likely spent a lot of time working on their character and/or learned from their mistakes and improved their skills at the game.

Just last beta I tried out a bunch of different profession combinations, and it wasn't until I made a E/N that I found a build I really want to play for release. I even kept the character cause I gained 38 fame in an hour or two (I know, not a lot, but for a new build I am proud of it). I don't want to delete the character now to try out other builds cause it's only the second character I have that is ranked.

Maybe there can be character and account fame somehow. I don't know what they will do with fame for release, ie, what else they will add, but maybe personal character benefits are based on character fame (like the staff) while unlocking stuff is based on account fame.

Pantaloon

Academy Page

Join Date: Mar 2005

I can understand what you are saying, but who is famous, the warrior you have been doing tons of Tombs with, or the new character that you just made. What if you make new role playing character. "Wow, look, that level one is running around with a level 7 fame stick, all bow before him." I think it should stick to character and not the puppet master who is controlling them.

Kha

Kha

Sins FTW!

Join Date: Mar 2005

USA

Angel Sharks [AS]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pantaloon
I can understand what you are saying, but who is famous, the warrior you have been doing tons of Tombs with, or the new character that you just made.
Very true. I suppose it all comes down to whether you view fame as a part of the fantasy game or the mechanics of the game, ie, if it is character based then we are aiming at it representing a RP role, but if account based then it is representing a player role. I do like thinking that fame adds to the diversity and role of my character in the game, but it does hurt to get rid of a character that has a lot of fame and you have put a lot of effort into. You may think "I would never delete such a character", but if alterations are made to the professions, skills or equipment that it uses, and your character just isn't fun to play anymore, would you really keep a useless character instead of one you can get fun out of? Our accounts should keep a record of our total fame and our characters keep their own record. Only fair way I can see it being applied. You can't always please everyone, but compromising sure can come close.

Kyraith Mentara

Academy Page

Join Date: Mar 2005

The only thing your really cant change is your primary and secondary profession...I dont see why so many people would be deleting their characters so easily, not the ones that have played in PvP long enough to a have that high of a fame. I mean if your characters faults are so bad that you need to start over...why would you have spent hours gaining fame?

Zaklex

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Feb 2005

San Jose, CA, USA

Remnants of Ascalon

What, you can't lose fame, well what do you know, I guess that's a bug I should have reported then. Yes, it's true I lost fame(all 1 of it), on the one character that has been constant since the Jan. BWE, the other 3 have been remade at least once. Also, I disagree that a person who is very good with one character will be good with another character, especially if it's a different combo(unless I'm the only person who's like that). So I voted for character based fame.

Kha

Kha

Sins FTW!

Join Date: Mar 2005

USA

Angel Sharks [AS]

By alterations, I'm referring to the developers changing the actual game, not you changing your own character. Account fame is just a nice reminder of how much fun and effort you put into PvPing. Not everyone is playing a PvE character that they will put a lot of work into and devout time to. Some people want to create different PvP characters for different team builds with friends and guilds. Account fame could be a reminder to yourself of how you have done overall. I still think character fame should reflect any changes to that character while account fame reflects any changes to your account. I don't see why both shouldn't be used.

Zaklex

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Feb 2005

San Jose, CA, USA

Remnants of Ascalon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kha
By alterations, I'm referring to the developers changing the actual game, not you changing your own character. Account fame is just a nice reminder of how much fun and effort you put into PvPing. Not everyone is playing a PvE character that they will put a lot of work into and devout time to. Some people want to create different PvP characters for different team builds with friends and guilds. Account fame could be a reminder to yourself of how you have done overall. I still think character fame should reflect any changes to that character while account fame reflects any changes to your account. I don't see why both shouldn't be used.
This is a little off topic but replying to the above, remember that when the game is released the only skills available to your PvP characters will be those that have been unlocked by a PvE one, there will not be the option of unlocking all skills.

gangguard

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Feb 2005

Vasburg Armoury

A/W

well each character should ahve their own fame and rank but the account should have the average fame and rank or the best fame and rank of your 4 characters. The account fame and rank is for the ladder

TheRealDecoy

TheRealDecoy

Academy Page

Join Date: Feb 2005

The Bay Area, CA

The Cornerstone

Mo/Me

Character-based

When you have high fame on a character and you're looking for a group people expect that you will be able to play that character the way that someone good enough to earn said fame would. If fame is account based someone could have very high fame and be a horrible addition to a team because they haven't played their character too much. Character-based fame allows PUG leaders to better gauge the abillity of the players they might invite.

Allah_Mode

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2005

kansas

maybe they should impliment a item transfering system, if this is your only reason for suggesting this.

i vote no

rithien

rithien

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Feb 2005

How about if PvP characters share an account tied fame while newly created RP characters would have to start from 0 fame?

Makes sense since PvP characters start at lvl 20 and RP characters start from 1. Also since RP characters are more highly customisable and less likely to be deleted as opposed to the more "disposable" nature of PvP characters. A good compromise between a RP-oriented mindset and a PvP one. But if it were either one or the other i guess i would choose account.

Ranis Harlequin

Ranis Harlequin

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Mar 2005

Vancouver, Canada

Why not both? Both arguments are valid.

I voted character, since fame/rank would be character specific anyways, and if it were account based, you could load up with one character your good with, and not worry about your lack of skill with other characters. It would actually represent YOU better because of the diversity of skill you would need to succeed.

Idealy, I think there should be a limit to fame/rank per character, and when you play up more characters, it would stack. Although, you could just play one character then start the same character over and over again....but how fun is that?

Lord Kinetic

Lord Kinetic

Academy Page

Join Date: Mar 2005

Essex, England

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranis Harlequin
Why not both? Both arguments are valid.

I voted character, since fame/rank would be character specific anyways, and if it were account based, you could load up with one character your good with, and not worry about your lack of skill with other characters. It would actually represent YOU better because of the diversity of skill you would need to succeed.

Idealy, I think there should be a limit to fame/rank per character, and when you play up more characters, it would stack. Although, you could just play one character then start the same character over and over again....but how fun is that?
So you have an overall of all fames added together and each individual character has a fame rating? I guess that would denote multiple characters and people wanting to try different characters rather than feeling tied to one charcter because they want that charcters fame higher.

Agent Dark Bootie

Agent Dark Bootie

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2005

near trees

i voted OTHER!
this is because i think it should say something like
"<account name> got this famous with his charactar <charactar name>

Luggage

Luggage

Elite Guru

Join Date: Feb 2005

sweden

Fame: 15/208
This Toon/Account

In yellow and green or something