No Ascension, no party

Am I so wrong to believe this? I've heard the desert where the ascension quests take place referred to as "the sandtrap for idiots." I have witnessed dialogs between players in Augury Rock about being stuck for five or more days and not having gotten to even one mission area. I've suffered through parties that couldn't figure out how to kill more than one hydra at a time. Maybe it was just luck, but from what I've seen, it truely is the idiot sandtrap.

If you can't make it through ascension, you definately don't belong in the Temple of Ages dungeons. If I could tell, I wouldn't party anyone who hadn't beaten the game either (even though it is a disappoiting waste of time.) Then I'm gaurenteed that you're at least semi-competent. So when I'm standing around in the Temple of Ages, and I refuse to party anyone under level 20, am I being elitist or realistic?

Realistic. I've been to the temple of ages on the way to the galrath quest and noticed all the really high levels there. I was amazed we actually got a few more on our party to go do it. But I'm not touching the area until I've ascended mainly because hearing about how hard it is, I need to build up my skill.

you are correct sir, the sheer difficulty of the temple of ages is DESINGED for those who have ascended. . .infused. . bneat the game whatever ( I think beat the game personally since the dungoens there are reall really hard) . . . . . .The dungeons are MEANT for good teams that are on teamspeak, ventrillo, or some kind of voice chat medium, comminication is key. Experience, the ability to follow comands and be in a team without bickering, the ability to pay attention when someone tells you not to talk to/take the quest from the lost soul/npc/whatever when you first enter the underworld/fissure untill you are specifically told. to. . .oh did i meantion following directions.. . .etc. .which brings me to another point, these quests are really designed for guilds who have already beaten the game and are looking for a challenge with intereting rewards, since guilds are more able to make better parties among themselves than going into a pug, and getting pwned by lvl 29-31 monsters because someone decides to rush foward without letting the monks regain energy, or complaining at the monk for not reviving or not having revive when revving is NOT THEIR JOB. . .they need to heal and the SECONDARY MONK CLASSES should be reviving people, so that the primary monks can keep the healing on the ones who are a live and not have to waste energy on the dead, and not have enough energy to heal hose who need it resulting in more and more deaths, the ability to have the revving monks run away from aggroing monsters when the need arises and be able to REBIRTH their fallen primary monks in that situation, the ability to NOT CHOOSE ANOTHER QUEST IN THE MIDDLE OF FINISHING AN UNDERWORLD QUEST! the ability just not to be noobs, it is a challenge not a 4 year olds McDonald's Playplaceto be succesful you need experience, and good teamwork. . . .and prefably a guild althoguh you may get lucky and get a kickass pug which would be cool. . . and if you are lucky enough to get one make sure you freind all of them so you guys could get together and to the quests again so yes, without the expeirnce of at least getting infused (prefably beating the game), having a guild, or good team on a voice chat medium, and the ablilty to follow orders. . . .you probably wont survive long in the uw. . . . GOOD LUCK!!!



. . . .THis monk shortage neeeds to come to an end. . . . .



ANything else I'm missing about what needs to happen to be a ble to suceed in uw/fissure?

Definitely, some pug groups can pull it together and do much clear alot of content in the underworld. One thing i keep hearing over and over is how important ventrillo or teamspeak is. I have it on my computer, but i have never used it. The group that I have going into underworld on nearly a daily basis for awhile now does not use it all it. Generally you pick up on things visually as we go. I guess it's also important to understand what to do or what not to do. Designate one leader who moves the groups from place to place or even pulls. Things as simple as collaborating and organizing spells to know what eachother is bringing, doing or what gaps in the equation need to be filled help the group move much smoother and more efficently.

On a bit of good new we finally finished that bloody statue quest... Longest...quest...ever...

it is possiblewith a pug but very rare to find a good one, I was with a very good pug and we almost beat the statue quest as well. . but someone who wanst on teamsepak talked to one of the statue ghosts and accepted a quest. . . . .needless to say the monsters that sapwned from that killed the things we needed to protect form the quest we were in -_- teamspeak/voice chat clients just make it a lot easier to communicate so thigns like that dont happen thats about it. . .i gotta go,. . .work tommorow. . .8 am Zzzzzzz

I made a monk just because I was tired of there not being any monks, I wanted to be picked in parites, and when there are monks, they suck!

But I can't get past my Mirror Self now. I never attack, I just heal!

Using retrbituion, divine boom, and healing breeze. I get him to 90% then I die. I have 470 health. =(

I'll tell you, I have been very frustrated trying to find a good group to finish Thirsty River. I consider myself to be a fairly competent player, and I am tired of people dropping out of groups or taking one stab at the mission and then leaving the group when we were so close. I am so frustrated with the river that I just walked away. I am frustrated with the lack of monks also, so I created a new character that is going to be strictly a healer monk and I am building him up. I am actually looking forward to helping teams as a monk in the future.

I really wish I could just get my Elementalist ascended. That has been my main goal for awhile. I guess eventually I will find the right group.

Well, I wouldn't enter any of these areas with a person under level 20... however, every group I've been in has been a PUG and, for the most part, all of them have failed miserably.
Me and my boyfriend did, however, get one very nice PUG that was able to clear the Arena area in Underworld, along with a large area around it.
I don't think Ascension (sp?) proves skill, though. And I certainly don't think beating the game proves skill. Granted, they're both tough tasks, but one could probably find a team of a bunch of competent players while they, themselves, are incompetent. Then they could just be run through and beat it with little work on their part.
Meanwhile, you could have a level 20 person who is -quite- competent stuck at Ascension. Maybe they've just had a streak of bad luck, or don't have enough time to try the missions a whole lot.
I really don't know why I bothered to type all that.
I guess the most cliche way I can put it is... don't judge a book by its cover?

Yeah you need to be ascended and have your armor infused to have any chance of survivablity down there.. Thats just the truth, So its not wrong to not take people under 20. You can walk to temple of ages from lions arch, and the first time i entered the underworld is by myself at level 14 lmao.. I was like "whats this"? Oooh i better wait till im 20.

I'm a monk. I've Ascended, and only took 15 minutes to figure out the right spell combination. Never attack... =O

Looks like you're the monk your talking about! XD!

LOL!

Why not when you are bored go help out the people there and instruct people on strategies. I'm on my 3rd charcter through it and I offer to be a guide sometimes. Before we leave I tell everyone what skills they will need and when to use them. A lot of people don't use the skills they need to complete the missions, Before each fight I discuss the what is about to happen and who needs to do what. Hopefully these people go on to be more strategical in combat instead of just hack and slash.

i just henchman it, the only quest i had a grp for was thirsty river, i just finished the thunderkeep one, and i find henchman to be the easiest, so try it some time, works for some, doesnt for others

Well I agree there is a great degree of skill in the game. Knowing what is what, what not to do, when to do things, etc. However I'm going to play devil's advocate by saying some of the earlier comments are all elitists ideas. You can be a different type of elitist though. Personally I haven't done ascension, I'm close but have not taken the time. I've done most other quests, tried different characters and still don't know everything but when I do know more than others I explain what, where, when, how, why. Everyone complains that people don't know much or are incompetent, but fact of the matter everyone was that way at one point. Many times people are still learning or finding out what to do for the first time. It's one thing if you're a stupid moron who has done the quest before or knows what to do and screw it up. It's another thing when it's someone’s first or second time. If you are the so called elitist maybe you should take the role of leader and step up. Okay please listen this is what we really need to do or else this could happen...... Don't get your panties in a bunch because people are new, explain to them. I hate when morons think they know it all then whine because someone is doing something for the first time and makes a mistake. I'm not saying party with a level 18 who doesn't have armor or spells they need, but for those who are ready and still don't know what to do it's your job to help them. Otherwise blame yourself for not getting involved and stepping up. Instead of being a useless elitist who thinks they know it all and doesn't do anythign to help, be useful to your group and if you are elitist and know what to do step up.

YES! thank you!

The desert is the idiot trap.

I have a couple Guild mates that were having problems with pugs on Elona's and Thirsty so I said I would come help them out. When I did these missions I had solid players in my pugs and did not prove to be a problem getting trough it.

Well I think the idiots are stacking now... it was very hard to find a group that could hit the broadside of a barn if you pointed them at it.

As a guide for them they keep telling me I didn't know what I was doing and would Leave mid mission or Warrior rush every creature in the map aggroing several groups at a time, then proceeding to yell at healer for not "doing there job"

Here are a few quotes I heard yesterday guideing groups on Thirsty River (by people that have tried it at 5 times already)

player - "Why are you Killing the Giants? The objective is this way!"
me - "To get the party a moral boost."
player - "Why would we want a moral boost?"
*player runs off and gets squashed*


me - "Now wait to attack this next group until the timer reaches 2 minutes"
player - "NOOO! n00b! Kill them now!!"
*Me and my buddy watch from a distance as he kills 2 of them then the timer hits 2 minutes. He gets bum rushed by 7 respawned Forgotten. Dies a painfull death.*
player - "You guys suck! Bleep Bleep Bleep @#%&!!"
*player leaves party*


and my favorite:
Player - "Why the Hell do you keep attacking the priests!?!"

Scturi, I would love to find a competent group with you as a guide! Hopefully it will happen soon.

Yes, I'm finding the quest is seriously long. Question: Have you found a "best" way to get past the Dream Riders? Kill them and kill the spawns? I've been thing something like edge of extintion for them, or avoiding them entirely. However, if you avoid them how do you keep the Lord safe when you kill the terror webs?

And i have to add this.

Remember Althea's Ashes? That was the first time the game made it clear you can't rush the map, take 'em one group at a time.

Amazing how quickly they forget!

I guess I was very lucky in desert with the three ascention missions.
It took me two tries to get pass Elona with the same group, and one try each to get pass Dunes and Thirsty River. Woot!!!
I'm a monk and I didn't even shout LFG and I was invited into these PUG's, and luckily they were all good groups that had players that knew what they were doing.We would always discuss strategies before starting and during the mission, and we had people that listened which was very important for success in PUG's.
I'm glad that I didn't have to face all the difficulties that many other players faced with these missions.

I'm personally getting tired of the attacks against players in the ascension missions. These are the most vital missions in the game to learn strategic planning. If you don't help people then you are no better. However I will agree that I also give up on a group the minute I here 1337 speak or noob bashing, those people don't deserve help. I don't care what you say, they need to unplug their computer. A "newbie" is someone who is new and willing to learn the inner workings of the game. The 1337 newb thinks he knows everything about the game and will bash everyone until there is no one left to group with him, or until some soul comes along and babysits him through it so he go on to bug people in other areas.

Teach them or don't go there.

I'm a monk and my bf is a warrior/monk. We made it through the ascension quests quickly though not effortlessly and painlessly. The elona reach mission was 3 or 4 runs when most missions we've done were in just 1 run. I think that many people forget some important things in Guild Wars beyond just brute force. Bring at least 2 dedicated player monks, wait after fights for energy to regenerate, and focus on soft targets first. Most importantly, use strategy and follow the leader!

Too often I have seen teams fall apart when everyone runs off doing their own thing. The easiest mission becomes difficult when there are people on the team that insist on being pricks. I've gone back and helped people in my guild with crystal desert/south shiverpeaks, and almost invariably there will be some idiot who won't listen to directions or leave after just one single harmless comment like "Can you wait for the team please?" In any case, don't piss off your monk, because you will regret it. :P

Idiots are part of the game, and some of them are beyond help. No matter what you do or how nicely you explain to them what the group should be doing because you've done this quest before they don't care. It happens. But at least if someone knows what they are doing and simply yes please listen up I know what to do etc. etc. there's a good chance it will succeed first or second time. I think some people think this game is totally fast paced and it's not. Certain things (quests, missions, areas) take a little strategic planning and group work. It's kinda like mini battles, if you go into a war everyone doing their own things that army is more than likely gonna be eating dirt. If you go in with a good plan and teamwork you'll have a good chance of succeeding. Just remember if you know what to do or think you "Elite" show it and take lead or give guidance. As for dumb morons who just can't play, don't have patience, or think they know it but don't, just find a new party or have go back to town regroup and ditch the loser.

it's easy to have follow the leader if you only use henchmen in the Elona mission

Sometimes henchmen prove to better than most pugs. They attack the target you call, they dont run off in the wrong direction, and they dont leave to eat in the middle of a mission. After being on 6 seperate pugs for Hells Precipice and having people quit durring the mission (for one reason or another) all 6 times, I grabbed a tem of all henchies and completed it. They listen well

I think that the better way is to get just ONE friend who u know already and u know how (s)he plays... and a lot of henchs :P

Well i must be lucky never to end up in groups with people that behave like in Scturis's post.
River i had to do often because the group itself made here and there errors, quite annoying.

Ascension is not only an idiot trap, its also an unlucky-person trap. When i had rivers done (dunes and elona were easier) i wanted to kiss the group leader.

Dude, what the frick is up with people and riverss? I've done it 5 times, lost it once. That was because someone didn't listen to my instuctions and got us killed. Otherwise, we always win.

Its not that hard!

Personally I find the Crystal Desert harder than FoW.

I absolutely love the desert, if you use your head it's a pussycat, if you don't (or can't) it's the devil himself. The ascension missions are acting as a huge filter, letting only people who can think their way out of an open cardboard box through - just a pity every now and then an idiot isn't a big enough burden to a good team and sneaks in.

Hehe i actualy find tirsty river easier with only 3 people and 3 ncp than a full group of people who think the timer is going downward even tho you said 3 time that it is not the time limit to finish the mission.

I actualy joined a full group of 6 player that reached the last forgotten team.. but instead of waiting 40 second for the timer to be at 4:00.. the only 2 warrior of the team runned straight away to the priest letting all caster behind with the elemental sword~ranger and forgotten arcanist -_- No need to say that all the caster died very fast and the 2 warrior didnt even manage to take off 1/4 of the priest health before they also get "pwned".

I find it easier with 2 friend and 3 npc because we all know each other and we all follow each other. And the npc usualy do pretty good if they arent following me. We did this mission a couple of time just for the fun of it and we only failed the first few time we tried it.

I think a huge mistake people use to do in that mission, is trying to kill the priest first (which is a very bad idea in most case). And not waiting for the time to reach 2 4 6 or 8 minute before running to next team.

When i play with my friends, I'm usualy the "priest killer". I run alone to the priest while my 2 friends and the npc take the rest of the monster.
Sometime we join a full team and we tell them to not go for the priest unless everything else is down and more important, to not follow me when i go kill it. 99% of the time there's 2 people who just follow me inside and let everyone else with the mob

When everyone is dead and we tell them we said to not follow me, they just say we're noob and suicidal and leave.. If we're noob and suicidal i wonder how we succeed everytime we do it with npc lol.

What i have trouble with, is Elona's reach.. it is probably bad luck or something but i've tried to help my friend pass it about 6 time today and each time we got wiped because of different mistake from any of us. Maybe we were just getting tired because when i ascended with my elementalist it only took me 3 time to finish it.

I havent finished all the missions yet because i play 3 character at once and i also help people in my guild. I still have 3 more infusion run to do. I go make infusion run with npc in my free time. So far i found the post-ascension missions a lot easier.. I'll see how it go later in the ring of fire when i finished helping my guildmate until they reach my location.

I tried underworld solo with my level 17 ranger.. I just wanted to go take a look .. I still find it fun how i paid 1k to go get killed in 2 hit hehe.

Scturi, think i met the same people in my groups aswell
But true the best party's make the worst errors aswell.

Anyway yesterday we formed this group of strangers to walk the lornas mission. Since i walked it before i think i knew that the passage with the 5 aivika (whatever there name) and 2 worms is not a place to take them all togehter at the same time. i am Mo/W and in our group where 4 others with monkskills.
Anyway here's a reconstruction:
me- guys wait up take 1 at the time and be carefull
me - 2 worms are waitin
hero's- fight, attack, kill (runnin with them swords and hammers high in the air to the group of aivika's)
(the 2 worms show up)
hero's - -------
hero's - -------(death)
hero's - nOOb nOOb, why didn't you heal me?

pffff, some people have small ears

I think we should start a brotherhood of Monks, and get a party running with people who all possess monk skills.

Whould be monkey bussiness i guess

Let me tell you about this one monk. This guy went into battle without a shirt. No armor and carrying a warrior's tall shield. He kept attacking and I ended up being the only healer in the group. He kept begging me for linen. I told him chunk the shield, get something to boost your energy, and focus on protection prayers if you want armor. He just blew it off. He kept charging into battle like a warrior. After dying a few times I stopped healing him because I was wasting my energy.

Guys like that shouldn't play as a Monk. He's a monk trying to do a warrior's job. The group eventualy broke up. Since Beta the quality of player has dropped a lot.

Yoda, that doesn't sound like a bad idea.

At first I had a rough time with the ascension missions but on my second character here I recognized most of the bad traits of a team and left before they started.

But I have to say it went quite well.

Dunes took two tries, the first was me healing (E/Mo) with a necro and 4 warriors, Earthquake took the warriors down faster then I could heal and we lost at about 2 minutes left, we might have won if when I said to wait so I could regen energy before taking out the enemy hero they listened...But I did it with henchmen a little later and it was no problem.

Elona took a few tries, the first try was when I found out about a certain glitch that would make the mission incredibly easy if it worked 100% of the time, but it doesn't seem to. Anyhow it took 4 tried with 3 different groups, which is nice because after I wiped with that third group they just sucked it up and tried again for the win.

Thirsty River went damn well. The whole team other then me had never done it before and we did it on the first try. We took out the healer boss first and I'm kinda surprised it went so well, at first they were attacking all the mobs but at about 30 seconds to the rez I called for the priest and a warrior rushed in with me, I cast meteor storm on the boss and unloaded on the priest, he went down and we finished it all easily. Only one group got a respawn off and that was okay because they stayed in a nice tight group, perfect to land a Firestorm and some fireballs on them.

I think It's getting alot better there now. When I went through with my Ranger it took a long time to find a good group to do any of them with and I even had to hench thirsty to get it done. But I finished them all pretty easily this time, and my friend did Elona and Thirsty on his first try, but his group was really good too. Lucky bugger also got Ether Renewal

But I agree, the desert is a bit of a noob filter, but it's also one hell of a tough place. I can't get anywhere there with henchmen without a 60% dp. I find that the fact I need to attack something with henchmen to spur them to action makes it too hard, especially with things like sand giants and sand elementals.

I think that Gates of Kryta and the Ascension missions are the main idiot filters of the game. Unfortunately, lots of talented -yet unlucky- players are stuck for days on those missions because they're stuck with others who rush mindlessly towards hordes of enemies only to blame the healer (or anyone else other than themselves, for that matter).

Talking about the kind of idiots you can find... apart of the kind of players who just charge against 3 or more groups of enemies, there's the guy who repeatedly asks to do the bonus objectives (before the mission has started), although most players in the group have already stated that they don't want to do those objectives because they want to finish the mission and doing the extras only would make it longer and more dangerous, and they always can do them later. This far, it sounds all right, until the mission has already started.

Then, they tend to run off the group towards where the extras would be, or start bitching about why isn't the group doing the extras, only to leave the group mid-mission, which can be very frustrating in Gates of Kryta if it happens with two group members at once. That happened to me three or four times. Many get stuck in certain missions because of these egoistic individuals who think that they can force the whole group to do the extras just because the mission already started.

Then there's the guy who must have missed the fact that swamp water is poisonous, despite having tried the mission over six times (and which would explain why he had to) and in the final part of the mission is followed by half the group into the swamp, oblivious to the fact that undead don't get poisoned by the swamp water and that they're walking into an ambush (the one set by skeleton rangers when you're trying to cross a narrow land bridge across the final swamp). Then they all die, because they're so hard they don't know the meaning of "retreat", and there's no way you can beat four skeleton rangers and the sorcerers with two players, especially after the group healer followed the other lemmings into the onslaught. Hummm... a "lemming filter" sounds better than an "idiot filter"!

Also, it wouldn't be the first time I come across a magic-user who thinks he can run half a mile ahead the rest of the team, drawing aggro and all that stuff. Attention, fellow players: artillery support can be as important in a battle as healing. Beware of who you pick as the main magic-user! Drawing aggro isn't a Mesmer's or Elementalist's job, because of low armor level and hit points. In my long experience with all sorts of roleplaying games, and opposed to all clichés, the warrior is usually the clever tactician, while the mage is the chimpanzee with a gun... no, with a rocket-propelled grenade launcher. Anyone who has played D&D for a couple of years will be familiar with the following situation: the mage decides to cast his favourite spell (a mass-damage area spell, such as fireball, for the most typical example) targeting a melee in which the rest of the players are. The players curse the mage. Everyone dies.

Since in GW players aren't affected by friendly fire, mages instead try to beat up trolls with a wand and think that by getting there first they get more loot, with predictable -and fatal- consequences. I've lost the count of the times this has happened, and I swear by Balthazar that none of those mages had the same name. And they always blame the warriors for being dumbasses and the monks for being a mile behind them -with the rest of the group-, and while I can cope with pedant spellcasters who look down on Warriors, I just can't bear with incompetent and pedant ones.

After this small rant, I must stay that no filter is 100% effective, and those lemmings will eventually find a Guild who recruits them and will be helped out of the proverbial sandtrap by more competent guildmates. And they don't have to be alive to complete the mission, as long as the rest of the group can make it.

Oh, and GW Darwin Awards should be made...

Kill Monk Self...

2 Skills - Retribution/Healing Breeze.... Jack up Smiting + Healing = 30 sec win.

that will work so long as your group stays together for -everything-. if you and the other human try to split up, then the hench go insane trying to follow you both. in elona this means that one person can't run back with a crystal, because in the process of trying to be near both of you, the hench will run right into mobs.

Wow... do I feel stupid. Frost Gate has me stuck.

QUite a few of the mission teach a valuable lesson about tactics. I love the Surmia Mission. The Bonus teaches you not to attack everythign as son as you see it, becasue if you do you cannot coplete the bonus. The end of Surmia is another classic, Ignore Rurik, and take on the large mob of Charr, becaus they will bunch up and AOE spell take em down. At the end of the mission they come in small groups and it makes things harder.

I ahve so far completed all the bonuses, excpet for Dunes, Thirsty River, and Dragons lair. And I'm going to do the last bonus tommorow.

Oh Elona Reach is possible with one warrior with sprint. I knwo as I took henchies they died straight away so I though Ah Feck it and tried any way. ANd ran all the mission dodging the Agro. Tis and easy mission if you know how.

The Bonus on DUes ins a arse, I have tried it a few times but never had the time between waves to hunt the generals. However ifyou lucky run to the opposite side of the temple areas to wher you enter and don'tlet the ghost start his ritual. Somtimes one of the Generals is on longbow range. That takes down one.

I love it when people say a mission is impossible with Henchmen then I walk through it with no problems. At least I can rely and predict the stupidity of henchmen. I would loove some of these 733t players to read 'The Art of War' they might pick up a few things about tactics.

When you ahve a good leader and everyone follows his orders missions are easy when yu have peopel who scatter and rush your not gogin to get very far.

Haha I can so agree on that one. I have ascended and all and I am a maxed out monk. I wander back to help those in the Sandtrap and have come to realise it is a kitty litter for just that reasons.

The Kitty litter sandtrap is designed to filter out those tools. Heck lets call em Hardwar Stores as they are full of tools.

Anyways. Some people just have no clue and I pray under my monk little scalp design that they wake up or forever sink in the kitty litter.

Cheers

SO true.

Heh, I like the analogy.