Crazy circle of noob ownige-ness

I was in HOH other day with a noob team this dawned on me. I have only jsut started playing PVP although i am not noob as i have unlocked all mesmer, necromancer, monk and ranger skills. As a observed my gaming environment,

It dawned on me that i wasn't gettgin fame very fast.
Then it dawned on me that thats because of the noobs around me.
Then it dawned on me that you need a good team to get fame.
Then i realised all the good players are in ranked teams which means that unranked teams have no real chance to win.

So as a Rank 1 player ( lol ) i think its very funny that i cannot get fame at any rate and have to slave to get it. Once i got into a ranked team as taint necro and won 4 consecutive but this is obviously not gonna happen with unranked.

So i realise that HOH starts at rank 3

Any comments / ideas?

It's a catch 22.

Play PvE.

Welcome to the broken rank system that tells you absolutely nothing about how good a player is. The only thing rank will tell you is you know the maps.

Or paid for rank and still don't know jack shit.

this is why people did iway...

your best bet is to get into a guild with RL friends who you know play half decently.

random guilds that advertise dont really help you much when it comes to PvP, and good guilds that PvP generally dont advertise, so again, quite a conundrum (sp?)

I think we need a sticky "complain about the rank system" thread. Not that I don't think it's a problem; I agree with the OP. But seriously, someone posts one of these threads at least once a day.

get a guild. It's the best way to go if you wanna go anywhere in pvp. Either that or play with friends. Playing in pugs won't get you too far compared to playing with people you know.

Maybe there will be other ways of getting fame in chapter 2.

What's the name of the game again? G.. g.. guild wars? Ohh! Maybe I should join a guild then!

Join a guild, start pvping. Just join a guild! There's one forming over at the guild hall [guild-hall.net I believe~] where a few people are starting a guild [and they have minimal pvp experience, for other people who want to start in HA, too.]-- go apply to them or something.

The rank system isn't broken. YOU ARE.

No seriously.

The problem is that you also need rank to join most decent guild...

Almost every guild I have joined that doesn't have rank req are:

1. Never PvP
2. Want to PvP but no members and the Guild Leader are lazy to recruit
3. Wrong Timezone
4. Do some PvP but with no coordination at all

Yes there are exceptions but by the time I find one of those I will be 3 years older......

Heres a suggestion: start your own group.

Kind of hard to do when people even ask the group starter's rank now, so its either unranked group(which means almost no chance, as the first poster said), or hope that none of those 7 people will ask you for your rank. I tried that when I was rank 2, took 1 hr to finally get the people, and the last guy asked me my rank, then when I am basically forced to say I am rank 2, everyone leaves...yay?

well you cant complain about being in an unranked group when you arent ranked. And as for the low rank= leavers advertise that it is an unranked group so no one is suprised.

You have 4 Choices a rank 1


Join a pro guild (Impossible)

Join a pro team (Highly unlikely)

Join a nub team (Random invites ftl)

Or run around naked in Pre (Ding ding)

the 4th option sounds the more fun to me

And that's the point of this post....the segregation problem

What is happening is that there are so many low ranked peeps getting one fame at a time, all they are doing is fame farming each other over and over, without learning ANYTHING. And all that is going to do is to drag the fame requirement up, since they don't learn anything by doing unranked vs unranked over and over. Hence how Rank 3+ is noob rank now...(IWAY kinda sped things up, but even without that it would eventually become like this)

You could;

- Try to revive the threads intended to help people form HoH groups
- Create your own team and ensure it fits your standards
- Keep pulling together PuG's and hope you get into a good team

There're IRC channels for this kind of thing too.

We also have a guild database and a 'looking for guild' thread in the guild auditorium. I got PM's before 24 hours from that thread (this was before becoming a moderator for the forums).

Among other things. There're other ways to form teams than to jump immediately into the game and go, "X/Y lfg" or "Rank Z X/Y lfg".

Even if these teams fail the first few tries, if you have fun together, you tend to friend each other, and your friends list of people who do HoH grows, so that eventually, you can fill up teams much faster later, calling them up to help.

like others have already stated, geting a guild and/or getting a lot of friends whom you have met and played with before is really the only way to get in good groups without rank.

Ya...so for the new ppl...just keep trying and pray that you run into some nice people who are good and don't req rank then quickly add to friends list. (Chances ain't good though)

You don't need to be a brain surgent to win.
You just have to stay calm and don't start using ur skills over and over without sense in the first place.

Second best thing is to identify priority targets. Wich ain't always monks or whatever. For this you need to know how most of the skills work, effect, etc. A good start is to take time at balthazars priest and look at all the 450 skills, read the specs.

Third thing you need, and it's very important, it's patience. Patience to learn and let others learn. Learn how to move on diffrent maps, where the best spot is to fight against diffrent builds, etc... Remeber, if you want to win in pre hall maps and you have a mass damage deal build, you can easily beat ranked teams that have a build focused on holding the hall.

My last advice is to not to play with rude people tha insult the other team. In most cases they`ll start insulting you as soon as they don't agree with something or you make a remark regarding their build, playing style, etc... this kind of people get irritated fast and they`ll start screwing up.


Now, i have screenshots to proove that winning = skill. And beleive me, henchies should have a lion emote at least.

everyone thinks they are good and that everyone they play with are noobs. Unranked players show very little experience in tombs/HA, and thats the bottom line. The higher ranked community is not here to serve you and risk their success by just allowing tons of new players in their groups. People claim rank means nothing, yet they somehow feel they will only win with high ranked groups, despite their lack of experience. Sure, the argument can be made that experience does not always mean skill, but it has a VERY strong correlation that for the most part justifies group formation by rank. I apologize for being blunt, but these complaints are getting rediculous.

You have one option: (and this goes for any other newcomer to pvp)

join random pugs and when you do well, add people to you friends list and play with them in the future. Find a guild/group of friends to play with and improve with. Its what everyone else in this game has done. It may take months, and I'm sorry, but you dont get any special treatment.

Despite what you may think, you aren't better than everyone around you. how is having more skills unlocked any different than having more fame? All it shows is experience and how long you've played, which many of the critics of the rank system claim has nothing to do with skill.

I cant believe I actually replied to one of these threads, but i've been drinking. I dont expect these threads to ever stop poping up, so I dont know why I bother....good luck in pvp.

And stop calling people noobs

old news...

rank = suck

I could die happy if that happened. Or if it at least meant something.

I have only jsut started playing PVP although i am not noob as i have unlocked all mesmer, necromancer, monk and ranger skills.[/quote]

Yes. You know all there is to know about pvp because you have unlocked quite a lot of skills

You're certainly a grammar noob.



Well if rank means nothing, some of these unranked players must in fact be 'not noob,' like you claim to be. =O

Maybe add them to your friendslist and play with them.

Higher ranked teams generally do better, thats because they are experienced.



gratz on the winning streak. Stick at it.

Kind of true, but i've been in many, many pathetic r3+ PuGs, and quite a few bad r6+ ones. Being in a ranked grp doesn't guarantee victory.

keep at it.

lol as if you spent time actualyl splitting my post up into small parts, even ripping me for the typo. Well dont get me wrong i know all the arenas and i know lots of builds and can spike etc, im not really noob, but i jsut havent been doing it much.

I also thought of a funny idea , take a MF team throughout PVE. That should be funny, thunderhead would be a pile of piss. Mind you thunderhead really isn't hard apart from the fact that most pve-ers cant play the game. We did thunderhead in my guild ( atm we are just a fun guild ) and no problems, so i think playing with people you know is a great advantage. Hmmm time to go on a blood spike......... (because they are piss easy)

The "n00bs" on your team were looking around and saying the same thing about you. Instead of degrading your peers, find some r0 or r1 buddies to put on your friends list and play together to become a team. You can all get r3 , r6 together. Everyone thinks that they are the only r1 player with skills and dont want to play with their peers. The reality is 99.9 % of the time you are just as n00bish as they are, so try to learn from each other and grow together. If r0's and r1's had as much skill as they thought they would easily get r3 in less than a week. Just make friends, have fun, and pay your dues like everyone else.

I think the point of this post is lost,
essentially a r3 team is better than a unranked one.
So when a unranked team fights a r3 team they lose.
Which means they can't get the fame required to join a rank 3 team so progress is sluggish.

I wonder if this could be helped anyway, maybe by matching the amount of fame in a team and putting it against another team with a similar amount of party-wide fame?! COMMENTS!!!!

and btw i am not like actually noob because i know quite alot about hoh, when im talking aobut the noobs im talking about the
spikers that attack the target and spike before the call ( how could anybody be so stupid though? )

I'm just going to go ahead and say you should turn down the ego just a bit before you think about actually playing with other people!

friendly suggestion ahoy!

!!!!!!

My 7 page topic just about this:

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...d.php?t=119955

I think every thread on this subject should include at least one copy of the Groucho Marx quote:

"I wouldn't want to join any club that would have me as a member."

And here's a serious proposal:

In chess, which has had a sophisticated rating system for decades (the Elo system, subsequently picked up by other games), there are lots of tournaments only open to people with a certain rating cap.

If there were team matches only open to teams or players with some kind of fame cap, a lot of the justified complaints might be alleviated.

1. Well I don't think you're meant to get it very fast, but sure this is frustrating
2. PvP is a team effort. If the team isn't doing well its down to all of you, not just "that stupid n00b monk that didn't heal me!!"
3. Yup
4. No... I'm sure there are plenty more like you who 'aren't n00b' but simply haven't done much pvp yet... except pvp plays far differently to pve... thats why I'm not much good at pvp but do great in pve.
5. Not necessarily, you just need to pick out a team that will work together. I.e. communicate instead of having a go at each other when you all lose because half were fighting one target and half the other.

sorry but i have to agree. If you quit saying you're not a n00b and everyone else around you is, you might have more luck. NO ONE is a n00b for a start, and how do you know the people you teamed with don't know all the builds you do, and like you simply don't pvp much?

Everyone has to start somewhere, some people are naturally good at pvp and might have only bought the game a month ago. Get some PUGS, make sure that you all can get on well and communicate well, pick a build to go with that you are all sure about, and know what your role is, and get in there. If you work well together it doesn't matter what your rank is; not everyone sucks when they first start, just like not everyone is great once they hit rank 3; I'm quite sure plenty of rank 3'ers simply got lucky with groups.

If you don't like that idea, well you'll just have to wait for a guild with the same ideas about 'n00bs' as yourself and hope they have a spot open up for a member that they're willing to train so that you can get helped into it that way.

Good luck.

Cheers nice informative post. I have sort of grown to love pvp more and more but i need a guild that will do it properly. and skills.....

Personally, I don't like people like you.

Nevertheless, I think fame is just an emote to show off un-creative IWAY skills. To me fame isn't much of anything, to others it is.

LOL The funny thing is, we hardly ever have favor of the Gods anymore. What does that mean? We don't win HOH too much. Maybe that means there's a need of some "change" going on around HA.

No one is going to take your seriously as long as you insist on calling the people around you "noobs". Your best chance is to get a good guild, and by that I mean a guild that is:

1) Active.
2) Polite, well-mannered and willing to help.
3) Active.

It's not hard to get to rank 3 if you have the patients. A lack of patients is what keeps people from getting rank and NOT a lack of skill. I PUGed to R3 in 2 weekends. The first weekend was way back when you didn't get fame for the first win, but only got fame starting the 2nd consecutive win.


Well, I dabbled my hand in PUG HoH/HA a couple of weekends ago (quite a few R0+ teams and 2 R3+ teams), and I think I've figured out why so many people find it so difficult to get to rank 3. I PUGed my way to R3 in 2 weekends, and I'm certain it's not difficult for other people to do it in a shorter time.

The problem is people stuck below rank 3 lack patients. Go up against 1 good team or one person makes 1 mistake and the entire team disbands. They refuse to learn. Instead of learning, they quit the group so they can find another group that will carry their weight for them. it's an 8v8 match, you can't win if you're playing 8v7 and have 1 person not carrying his weight for the team.

HoH is a team effort, it's not just individual skill, it requires team play. In order to develop team play, you have to play with the same people so that you can learn to fit the 8 pieces together.

I joined two R3+ groups this weekend, and both teams after 1 loss siad, "again" and noone dropped from the group. Some of them didn't have as much skill as some of the other R1-2 players I played with that day, but they had the patients to stick with it, learn, and end up raking in the fame.

I can understand why people want to form R3+ groups only. R3 certainly isn't an indication of skill, but having R3 most likely means you have the maturity to fight through it even after a couple of losses and the have the basic ability to learn.

I don't feel that i'm an elitest recognizing that some people who have problems succeeding is because they lack patients, refuse to learn, and expect others to carry them to fame and glory. That straight out agravates me especially because it's a team game. I expect other to want to get better and try to get better and at least try to carry their own weight. Even if they suck and are complete "noobs", I don't have a problems as long as they show a potential for getting better.

again, i believe this expectation is normal and not an elitists view, but that's just me.

I did stick around an R0 team and helped them with some basic strategies and get a handful of consecutive wins. One of them's even on my friends list.

Hopefully they will reset fame.

Yes, I said it. Because of all the IWAY farmers, the system is tainted. Reset it 1 month after the Factions skills are balanced and all will be fine.