Stand alone yet not?

If Factions is a stand alone game, then why is so much emphasis being placed on the Ritualist and Assassin Classes?

My point is that Factions plays independently of Prophecies. Because of this, somebody might be playing GW for the first time with Factions alone. And with this in mind, all the special preorder items, all the special features in the CE edition, all are only pointed toward the two new classes.

So if this is a stand alone game, why do all the special features smell like an expansion?

Weapons have limited mods. What's the point of giving me a pre order item when I can get the same mods already?

The pre-order items are designed to give you something to use till you find something better.

so not the point I was making.

The point is the Pre order only has special items for the two new classes, so people who are playing GW for the first time and buy the preorder, arent being given access to special weapons for all classes.

That is more of an insentive to buy the previous chapters.

They are not going to give you everything from previous chapters with each new one coming out. If you want it you pay for it.

Think of GW as more of a card game because that is the business model they are following.

I'm not talking about things from a previous release.

What I'm saying is there should have been all new items for all the classes. All new special dance emotes for all the classes.

Not just the two new ones. Its not a stand alone experience if they are centering all the attention around the new classes. Somehow you arent getting what I mean.

I'm saying for some people, you dont get a fair experience from just buying one, like you did when you bought the Pre orders and Collectors Edition for Prophecies. If you bought the pre orders, you were given a special item for the classes. (Obviously buying all of them worked better.) And Divine Aura from the CE worked for all classes, not just two or 3. And likely, the Divine Aura will transfer for existing players into Factions for the two new classes.

But the Preorder and CE for Factions does not go backwards. Nothing special has been made for the older classes. And because of that, the experience is not the same for someone just starting the game in Factions.

They only have access to special items as they apply to Assassin and Ritualist

You can still get pre order keys for chapter 1. There is no need for it again for chapter 2.

I get what you are saying but no pre order item is going to be better than something you can get later on. So the weapons you bring form chapter 1 will be much better than a pre-order they give you. I'd rather have them spend their time on other things.

The dance emote is going to be great for about 10 minutes then people will move on.

If they didn't focus on the assassin and rit for this release what the hell is the point of adding them or trying to get you to buy it. In the end that's all factions is really going to be about.

It basicly goes like this:

new armor and weapons (weapons are no better, some armor is but they will most likely go back and buff the chapter 1 armor to balance things)

more missions and quest (like we need anymore with the same dumb AI and repetative goals)

new areas to explore (not a big plus)

continuation of story (again not a big plus)

more skills (main selling point)

assassin and rit (other main selling point)

Most are going to buy it for more core class skills and the new proffesions. The rest is just filler.

And still you arent getting a damn thing I'm saying.

I'm not talking from the point of view of someone who already has the damn game. I'm talking about someone who is first starting to play in Factions.

And the only special things they have are for two classes out of the total.

To them, the way its set up is unfair. Its not set up as a stand alone game. Its set up like an Expansion. And it shouldnt be if they are going to call it a stand alone.

I see Arcanis's point. I thought the same thing when reading the CE Dance special - it will just encourage people to make a Ritualist and Assassin, and not try out other classes they may have missed...

or never played at all in the case of those new to GW.

But I also see Twicky's point: MOST people buying Factions already own GW, so Anet can't be blamed for pimping what makes it different.

Nvm, you don't understand anything about marketing. Marketing isn't designed to be fair. Its made to show the best str of what you are selling and repeat it over and over again.

Obviously you play Mtg so you should understand this concept very well. You don't need the previous editions to be competative and the same applies to GW.

It is a true stand alone game WITH benifits if you have previous games. Not the other way around.

To go off topic, if GW will be like MTG, then will Chapter 10 re-release the old skills from Prophecies?

and that is exzctly the problem.

The same problem M:TG has and why it drives off its own players more each year.

It puts out new editions so often no one can stay caught up nor complete in any way shape or form.

Magic shot itself in the foot with Mirridon not how fast the expansions are coming out. There is always a new generation of people playing the game each year keeping their numbers steady.

When you started seeing Affinity or anti-Affinity the only choice of decks that's when people stopped playing. Their constant price increases don't help either. GW has neither of those problems.

Besides players usually play for 1-2 core editions and quit for a year or so and come back. No matter what they have a fresh new customer base being born everyday and vet players returned periodicly. Same thing will happen to GW.

the reason why the weaps are for the starters only is simple. Regaurdless of weather or not you have the first game, Rit and Assassin are new classes to you. The core classes are there just to balance the game out for people that dont have the first game, and seeing as the core classes cant use alot of the original skills if you buy factions, it gives people that only have factions a reason to get the original. And with the new skills and armor for each old class, old players are kept happy, and are givin a reason to buy the game.

Also, as anet has stated each expansion will focus on 2 classes, so giving preorder items for the classes of that game, makes alot of sense.

Dont get confused by what anet says, these games are expansions, but they make it stand alone so they can pull in new players. they would have potnential to lose customers if you had to buy each expansion, and since anet only makes money from selling game copies, It makes alot of sense why they are doing this whole thing.


If you still dont understand it, then stop worrying about it.

a.net have actualy stated that there will be expansions that don't introduce new playable chars.

Emphasis is placed upon the two 'new' professions because that is the most visible distinction between Prophecies and Factions. They need characters for the box art and other promotional materials, why wouldn't it focus on what's new and exciting?

Are you seriously trying to argue that this isn't a standalone game because a *special preorder item* is class specific? The stupid shield thingy I got from preordering from Best Buy is class specific too, does that mean Prophecies wasn't a standalone either? What about the guys who got the Ithas Bow?

...

Ok, I'm trying too hard to be tactful. Everyone, look carefully. See that argument in the original post? That is a textbook example of a non-sequitur argument. It doesn't even make enough sense to refute. All you can do is point at the absurdity of it and shake your head.

Peace,
-CxE

hi

to be blunt you are missing what you youself said.

they havent played the game...................RIGHT???

they get 8 professions new to them (and dances emotes ) not 2 (havent played it yet right)

a whole continent to play on along with missions, quests, etc.

what about that is not a full game?

I only got 1 special thing when I preordered Prophecies...and I never even made a Warrior for that shield until 1 month ago...How come I didn't get a special item for all 6 professions?

i got a warpick that hits the trash can because i cant throw it away and want the slot.

i have a keycode for the bow i never entered when i got the CE at a different store (preorder)

O.O I'll take that keycode off your hands!

Not that the bow is worth using at all...

i may someday create a ranger.

then wind up trashcanning the bow if it doesnt work.

the code is in a drawer here somewhere

this discussion is so bleh... (I started reading the first 8 posts and... wtf)

anyways, this "factions" is a game thats based around the ritualist/assassin.

Lets see if I can explain this to everyoen who was an idiot in this thread.

Prophecies Preorders: The weapon was different depending on where you got your preorder from.. BUT there were weapons available for all the classes, you just had to pick which preorder you wanted.

This time around, there are not weapons for all the classes available by selecting different preorder locations. Now there is only one set of 2 weapons, only for the new classes no matter which location you choose from.

To Loviatar, the dance emotes are only for the two new classes, not all 8. I believe you not knowing this alone kinda kills your whole post.

Ensign: I'm trying to argue that they are treating a game they call a stand alone experience as an expansion by centering all their marketing around the two new classes. If this was truely stand alone, the special features would include encompassing effects, not merely two classes out of the total.

It is a stand alone game in that it can be played by itself, but the promotional items are being treated like that of an expansion, so they're marketing all this in a stupid way. Like Twicky said, they're doing it like Card Games. Giving you the new stuff, making you want to buy the old stuff. The difference here is that the old special stuff isnt readily available anymore, and in some cases, like the CE of Prophecies, isnt even being sold anymore.

And that's not smart marketing, its stupid. You dont make people want to buy your product more when you limit the ammount of copies of the special type. You just make people angry at you for not providing the product they want.

The Factions CE that I wanted would have included special things for all the classes, not just the two new ones, since I never got the Prophecies one, and would have liked to get it this time around. So you see, stupid planning on their part. Now I'll probably just get the normal one since I dont give a shit about the new classes that much.

Yes, Arcanis, we're the idiots because we don't see your point...

Whatever.

Maybe they're saving special dance emotes for the other professions for later CEs that don't introduce new characters.

Bottom line: It really doesn't matter. The Collector's Edition is for fanboys... pure and simple. (and yes, I'm buying it ). I can't imagine someone walking up to an endcap and going, "Hmmm, Guild Wars: Factions CE. I always wanted to try that. Well, no point spending $50 when I can spend $70!"

That's the whole deal with Collector's Editions: You miss them, that's it. That's why the bonuses have (so far) been cosmetic only. So, let's say Chapter 6 offers new dances for Warriors. Are you going to cry: "Oh, boo hoo. I should have bought CE: Factions, so I could have all the special dances!"

since you consider me one of the idiots i consider myself in good company.

ARE YOU ACTUALLY SAYING ONLY THE 2 NEW CLASSES WILL HAVE DANCE EMOTES AND THE CORE 6 PROFESSIONS WILL HAVE THEIR DANCE EMOTES REMOVED?

Starting out your post by calling everyone who doesn't agree with you an idiot is a great way to convince people of the merit of your stance.


Incorrect. There was neither a Mesmer nor an Elementalist item available for preorder anywhere. In addition the idea of a 'choice' of preorder is rather presumptuous, as it isn't like every customer had realistic access to every retailer. I would wager that people preordered from the locations that were convenient for them, and that was all there is to it.


A couple of special emotes available only through the collector's edition of a game is clearly the difference between a standalone game and an expansion.


Now maybe I'm just seeing things differently because I come from a M:tG background, amongst other things. But when a new product comes out that's been designed from the ground up to be playable all by itself, that's a pretty good sign that it's standalone.

When something is standalone that doesn't mean you advertise it in exactly the same way as the original. You've established a franchise when it comes to release #2, which means there's some prior knowledge and expectations. You don't need to go over the basics with every advertising campaign. Instead you focus on what's new and what's different. Sure there's some segment of the population that doesn't know what Guild Wars is and will be picking up Factions for the first time. But a lot of people looking at the game will have some idea of what's been done, and they want to know what's new.

Hell, you see it in other games all the time. Whenever a sequel comes out in a known like of games they're quick to tell you about all the new features that this one has, what makes it so much different from the previous version. Basically their brand is established and they're re-selling the brand. When Doom 3 came out no one bothered explaining what Doom was. Everyone already knew that. All anyone talked about was the new features, the graphics and AI and all that, because that's what people were interested in.

That in no way made it an expansion.


Not like an expansion. Like a marketing team that understands that they already have a brand name, and that their focus can shift from explaining what their brand is, to fleshing it out with the new features and toys.


Er, sure you do. People go crazy for limited editions and truncated print runs. As long as they're just special versions and not the standard version that everyone buys you're not constricting your revenue at all. You're expanding it.

Nearly every game has a limited collector's edition, and it's not because marketing is run by a bunch of morons or the company likes giving money away. It's because those collector's editions make the company money. It's that simple.


So what you're looking for is not a *Factions* CE, as much as a re-issue of the original CE. I can see where some frustration would come from, in not getting what you want. That doesn't change what it is though, even if it isn't what you want.

Peace,
-CxE

lol the bow is the most powerfull weapon in presearing

Aaaaaand that's where you lost me.

Why do I, a person who bought the preorders for each class and followed guild wars from day one, have you who just started get all of the items right off the bat when I took time to find and purchase the items? Why should you be given all of the preorder items just because you are new, the items from the original preorders anyways wasnt any good after level 10- 13 anyways because you usually had better. They are more of a collectors item and provide no unfair advantage. Besides nothing stopped those people who werent around originally from purchasing the prophecies preorders. You had as much of a chance as I did. You came late its your own fault. You may still find a prophecies pre order here and there, but it isnt my fault so quit whining about it. Buy your factions pre order and enjoy the 2 " new " items for the "new" chapter.

Also if you checked the histories of expansions you see that only the new classes are emphasized with the originals getting a few tweaks and upgrades. i.e. Diablo 2. The difference is Anet said if you don't want the original experiance, then just buy chaptrer two, prophecies isnt required to play factions. Its your choice and you have the freedom. So in that respect it isnt a expansion. For existing players it will be a expansion, for newcomers its stand alone.
So its an expansion or a stand alone, your choice. You arent required to to have prophecies, but it can enhance your experiance.

Ok, I'm trying too hard to be tactful. Everyone, look carefully. See that argument in the original post? That is a textbook example of a non-sequitur argument. It doesn't even make enough sense to refute. All you can do is point at the absurdity of it and shake your head.

Peace,
-CxE[/QUOTE]


Haha... I had not-sequitor arguments at the universety. I still remember: If A than B, not A, not B. That was a easy one, but there are some much more difficult arguments :-).

I dont think its easy to explain this kind of arguments to people.

Where do I sign to be an idiot in this thread ? 'salutes'..

I f*ckin give up..

Whatever. Act like a buch of idiots, see if I care. I didnt even bother to read past the newbish insults and immature name calling to see if you made any kind of point.

And you wonder why I called you idiots in the first place?

It's better to be silent and thought the fool than to open your mouth and prove them right.

It was very hard to get all of the pre-order codes for Chapter 1 and for what job depends on where you got the pre-order.

Example Best Buy had the Shield, Game Stop had the Warpick, EBGames had the bow, "Generic" was the Census Focus. Europe had the celestrial prism. Someplace had the Bone Idol.

Basically a "normal" person that does one pre-order and got the game only got one item for 1 job from chapter 1 and if you didn't know what was from where it pretty much random.

I'm only missing two, gamestop preorder key and europe preorder key. One will cost me 50 bucks to get, I have next to zero chance of finding a europe pre-order. Hint I will buy either of these unused keys - pm me.

I do see your point but there pushing the two new jobs as the draw as Ensign indicated for Chapter 2.

I believe that applies to both me and them as both sides think the same.

Obviously u are the only idiot here since ur the one posting the question.... or should I say trying to make some point.... people like u should be kicked from the fourms.... u obviouly have nothing positive to contribute to the community.... so GO F*UCK YOUR SELF

heh. And my point is made...

I have nothing positive to contribute, like your post was positive and awe inspiring.

I'd say this topic is over, I suggest a mod close it.

In order to not be jumped on, you have to:

Counter with logical / or at least thought out arugments as to why and acknowledege other points of view and state why it's not valid, valid (but not enough to switch), or not related.

Not start with the feeling if we don't agree with you were an "idiot" or then attack anyone that disagree with you and ignore personal attacks against you.

It was I heared 200 people CHEER when I posted that....


U just wheren't one of them.

heard*

you*

weren't*

Learn to spell.

/cheer

It is a standalone game in the fact that you can play it w/o Prophecies. If it was an expansion, you would need the original. That's all there is to it. Of course it is hard to make a standalone game that links to the original, as everyone will just perceive it to be an expansion. But by sheer definition, Factions is a standalone game and does not require Prophecies to play. That is how to determine if it is a standalone game or an expansion.