no grind? yeah right

NiknudStunod

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2005

22 May 2005 at 15:56 - 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khrysyl
While it may not be grindless (that depends on your definition I guess) it certainly is a game where you only have to grind as much as you want to.

I also find it rather strange that some people have this idea that they have to have elites (some even feel they have to ahve all elites, all runes, and all enhancements) to be competitive. That is just so much nonsense! I'm sorry if that offends, but it is the truth.

Anyone, and I mean anyone, can be competitive at any level. I could be, you can be, anyone can be, so long as they compete at their level.

One of the facts of life with RPGs (and this is an RPG, a CoRPG according to A.Net) is that characters progress, some characters are higher than others and have more abilities, skills, etc. We all have the choice though, we can compete in PvP at the level we find ourselves, or we can wait until we have reached the absolute pinnacle of development and uber-skill possession before PvPing. It is the choice of the individual though, and not something imposed by A.Net

So, go out, enjoy the PvP that you can participate in today (I know I will be soon enough) and don't worry about being at the very top from day one. Only one person (or team) can be at the top, and in a competitive game, it is not likely they will be able to stay there for long. Peace.

edit: corrected spelling errors induced by dyslexic fingers, did I miss any?
No you can not be competetive at the top of the ladder unless you grind. It is a simple fact. I have already left this game and moved on. I had really high hopes for the fact devs said,"Skill over time spent". I am back playing planetside using my guild war head set and 6 months of team speak lol.

Redfang

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2005

Hope And Glory

W/Me

22 May 2005 at 16:01 - 43
There is a difference between having a viable, competitive character in a few hours and a game where you can have everything in only a few hours. No one ever promised you the latter.

Khrysyl

Khrysyl

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2005

22 May 2005 at 16:07 - 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by NiknudStunod
No you can not be competetive at the top of the ladder unless you grind. It is a simple fact. I have already left this game and moved on. I had really high hopes for the fact devs said,"Skill over time spent". I am back playing planetside using my guild war head set and 6 months of team speak lol.
Good for you! I am glad you have a game that suits your particular playstyle. All the best in Planetside!

Shadow_Avenger

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

Stolen Dreams

R/Me

22 May 2005 at 16:22 - 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by PieXags
Not another one of these threads, not another one. I can't take another one.

*curls up in bedsheets*
Exactly,

There is that old saying a GOOD WORKMAN DOESN'T BLAME HIS TOOLS.
Now if this is to be true, then ALL the people moaning about grind to get x skill are actually C**P players as they get beat and blame it on the fact the didn't have x skill.

They may have 1 thousand excuses or reasons but it doesn't matter, even basic skills used in the correct order are deadly and you don't need Elite skills to win. At Highend Guild play it is about player coordination and team work. Not what skill " I " have. There is no I in team.
It is teams working together with skills that complement each other that win, not elite skills or runes etc.

nub

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2005

22 May 2005 at 16:25 - 46
Quote:
No you can not be competetive at the top of the ladder unless you grind.
why do you HAVE to be at the top of the ladder, in order to be competitive? i'm quite sure you're not the only one without this and this elite skills, and are making do just fine being competitive and enjoying the game. and not being the l33test with the all the elites unlocked.

sybban

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Apr 2005

Beaufort Fun Park

I don't remember the guild name

Mo/W

22 May 2005 at 17:28 - 47
It's not a "grind" if it's optional. If you don't want it then don't get it. Do you just want some guy to sell it to you?

sama

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2005

EST

K A R M A

22 May 2005 at 18:02 - 48
well...this is probably the 25th or so thread about grind in guild wars. If nothing else, the quanity of the complaints would suggest that there is an issue.

However, the arguments (on both sides) have been repetitive with no progression. It would seem the issue now isn't so much whether there is grind (there is to a large quanity of people anyway), but what each person wants to believe.

Different people have different tolerance for grind and different people had different expectations of this game. To argue who's experience is more valid is to engage in what many of gw forum users have been doing, participating in a losing debate.

To all the people concerned about the skill grinding in guild wars, change is coming soon, possibly as soon as two weeks. I don't know in what forms the change will be, but I've been told that changes will happen.

Loviatar

Underworld Spelunker

Join Date: Feb 2005

22 May 2005 at 18:20 - 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by sama
To all the people concerned about the skill grinding in guild wars, change is coming soon, possibly as soon as two weeks. I don't know in what forms the change will be, but I've been told that changes will happen.
would you mind passing on who told you this and a link to it so we can get an idea of how reliable the source is?

elorei

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Apr 2005

22 May 2005 at 19:38 - 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khrysyl
Every difficult task is not without reward.
what you fail to realize is this IS NOT ABOUT DIFFICULTY. its not difficult to do the same damn thing 120 times. its not challenging to do the same damn thing 120 times. its not skill to do the same damn thing 120 times.

where is the diffuclty? sure, its difficult to sit in this chair for 10 hours straight i guess. maybe thats what you are talking about?

is it difficult to roll dice til you get double 6s 5 times in a row? hell no, its not difficult, its boring as hell.

none of us ..let me say it again: NONE OF US want it to be easy. what we want is to not have to do the exact same thing over and over and over and over and over til the right boss is there. where have i EVER asked for the skills to be handed to me?

all i have asked for is to remove the grind. the repetition.

if you think doing something 150 times makes you more skilled than someone that does it 1 time, i feel sorry for you.

Aurixis

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: May 2005

22 May 2005 at 19:44 - 51
I think it'd be a start if they just made it so items with colored names wouldn't have a chance at being nothing. THAT's just cruel. The only 3 yellow (potential superiors?) drops I've gotten have been nothing. The only plus is the 200+gp they're worth. But who wouldn't rather have any superior?

Some sort of PvP reward system would, in my opinion, be sufficient. The wins counter with the ability to buy or unlock runes, skills, and upgrades with these wins would be perfect (in my opinion). There just needs to be some other way to get things as a class combo with no possibility of extensive farming (ranger/mesmer).

Lazarus

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2005

Mo/

22 May 2005 at 19:55 - 52
I really must be playing the game wrong. In just under 200 hours of play, I have yet experience this "grind" stuff you guys are complaining about. So the game gets repetitive while you are trying to capture your skills. You keep trying over and over and over and over. Still no boss with the skill you want.

I think you guys should let life experience and common sense take over at this point.

"Insanity can be defined as trying the same thing over and over again and expecting different results each time."

So my question is this:

Is it grind or insanity that is at the root of your problems? Have you tried doing it a different way or do you just want it your way? Remember, you cannot change the game. You can only change how you play it.


Lazarus

Khrysyl

Khrysyl

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2005

22 May 2005 at 19:58 - 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by elorei
none of us ..let me say it again: NONE OF US want it to be easy. what we want is to not have to do the exact same thing over and over and over and over and over til the right boss is there. where have i EVER asked for the skills to be handed to me?
None? Are you absolutely sure about that? You are willing to state with certainty that the request for a UAS button has been universally dropped by all PvP players? Because, that is not what I am hearing.

You say you have no desire for the game to be easy, and that is good. I wish (and hope) there were more like you. I don't want the game to be easy either. I also don't want the game to be split in two, which will happen just as soon as the efforts of a PvE player are made irrelevant when it comes to PvP. A UAS system would make PvE effort irrelevant, as would some other systems that have been discussed.

edit: to clarify a question

elorei

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Apr 2005

22 May 2005 at 20:12 - 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazarus
I really must be playing the game wrong. In just under 200 hours of play, I have yet experience this "grind" stuff you guys are complaining about. So the game gets repetitive while you are trying to capture your skills. You keep trying over and over and over and over. Still no boss with the skill you want.

I think you guys should let life experience and common sense take over at this point.

"Insanity can be defined as trying the same thing over and over again and expecting different results each time."

So my question is this:

Is it grind or insanity that is at the root of your problems? Have you tried doing it a different way or do you just want it your way? Remember, you cannot change the game. You can only change how you play it.


Lazarus
lazarus, i would love another way to do it.

the fact is though, ONE boss has the skill. that boss has a low chance to actually exist when you load the zone.

if you can tell me a way to change these facts in my favor, im all ears. i cant control what spawns. i cant give the skills to other bosses. if i want that skill (ppl seeking flourish, well of power, and ...hell if i can remember the mesmer skill also) i have to go and camp that boss spawn.

there is no other way to get that skill. no quest. no missions. no random boss that might have it so i can catch it while exploring. if i want it, i camp. and camp. and camp. can i play WITHOUT that skill? sure. can play without any heals too, but would i be a very good monk? prolly not.

apparently camping a spawn point equates to skill, listening to most of the people in this thread.

elorei

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Apr 2005

22 May 2005 at 20:14 - 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khrysyl
None? Are you absolutely sure about that? You are willing to state with certainty that the request for a UAS button has been universally dropped by all PvP players? Because, that is not what I am hearing.

i over generalized, and i apologize. *I* dont want the uas, i want a fun way to get the skills. im not saying uas is bad, or good. i am ONLY saying that camping is bad.

taion

taion

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

Pasadena, California

Mo/

22 May 2005 at 20:27 - 56
Note that the general gist of the UAS suggestions was that, even if available, UAS should be restricted to characters who have progressed through much of PvP (either Ascension or beating the entire storyline), so it's impossible to skip the PvE game entirely.

And, honestly, grinding for runes and weapon upgrades is a whole lot more annoying to me than grinding for skills. At least I have a small chance of getting some good drops when hunting for an elusive elite.

Lazarus

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2005

Mo/

22 May 2005 at 20:33 - 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by elorei
lazarus, i would love another way to do it.

the fact is though, ONE boss has the skill. that boss has a low chance to actually exist when you load the zone.

if you can tell me a way to change these facts in my favor, im all ears. i cant control what spawns. i cant give the skills to other bosses. if i want that skill (ppl seeking flourish, well of power, and ...hell if i can remember the mesmer skill also) i have to go and camp that boss spawn.

there is no other way to get that skill. no quest. no missions. no random boss that might have it so i can catch it while exploring. if i want it, i camp. and camp. and camp. can i play WITHOUT that skill? sure. can play without any heals too, but would i be a very good monk? prolly not.

apparently camping a spawn point equates to skill, listening to most of the people in this thread.
So you are saying that it imposible to play the game effectively with this ONE skill?

I am sorry, but I do not agree that point of view.


Lazarus

Teh Azman

Teh Azman

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

I Used Charm Animal On Your [MOM]

Me/R

22 May 2005 at 23:15 - 58
It's called elite for a reason...

Shadow_Avenger

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

Stolen Dreams

R/Me

22 May 2005 at 23:29 - 59
Just a little observation.
The Rune drops etc are random, but also very very very rarely do you actually get a drop that is related to you class, I would say 75% of the time it is actually for a different class.

I.E. My main is R/Me and I have unlock vigor runes lesser / greater, all elementist minor runes, most minor monk runes,most warrior minor runes. All staff upgrades, some bow upgrades, most hammer upgrades and a couple of sword upgrades. etc etc. But have not yet found one Ranger Rune.

Elite skills, hmm they are supposed to be rare elite skills, hence not every one has them, You are ment to be lucky to find them. If everybody had them they may as well just be skills like the rest. They are not hugely more powerful than other skills, if used in conjunction with other elite skills they may be, but you can only use one at a time anyway.

If you are aiming to find that one elusive upgrade then folly you, you have just created a grind for yourself. On the other hand if you are just interested in playing and not bothered what you find, then there is actually no grind at all.

ALL GAMES get boring if you over dose on them. The "Grind" is totally dependant on how you play and what you want.

Now if thats all, the to grind or not to grind is not a game design flaw or advantage, but is relative to the player themselves. Please let this be the end of a pointless debate.

taion

taion

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

Pasadena, California

Mo/

22 May 2005 at 23:53 - 60
The rune drops are random. There are six primary professions. That means you should expect to get a rune for your profession around 1/6 of the time, which is about 17%. I don't think it's actually exactly this because some professions have more runes than others, and vigor runes are not profession-specific.

Elite skills are precisely not just other skills like the rest because they are strictly better than normal skills, or else do the same thing as two normal skills at the same time, or else just have an effect that's straight-out too powerful for a normal skill. If they were just like normal skills, what would the purpose of the restriction be?

Moreover, how do you expect to PvP competitively if you're measureably less powerful than your opponents? Perhaps the power difference is less than it might be in other games, but it still detracts from the skill-based component of PvP.

NiknudStunod

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2005

22 May 2005 at 23:55 - 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by nub
why do you HAVE to be at the top of the ladder, in order to be competitive? i'm quite sure you're not the only one without this and this elite skills, and are making do just fine being competitive and enjoying the game. and not being the l33test with the all the elites unlocked.

I am sorry that I wanted to be competitive in a competitive game. Isn't the reason to play in the ladders to get as high as possible? I am not talking about HoH or any of the other arenas. I am talking about GvG battles. I am far from being a crap player IMO. I have gone through the game once with my War/Mes and I don't really want to have to go back and farm for elite skills just to compete with the best. I never said i wanted to be leet but I guess its just a crime to want to do well in a game.

NiknudStunod

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2005

23 May 2005 at 00:05 - 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow_Avenger
Just a little observation.
The Rune drops etc are random, but also very very very rarely do you actually get a drop that is related to you class, I would say 75% of the time it is actually for a different class.

I.E. My main is R/Me and I have unlock vigor runes lesser / greater, all elementist minor runes, most minor monk runes,most warrior minor runes. All staff upgrades, some bow upgrades, most hammer upgrades and a couple of sword upgrades. etc etc. But have not yet found one Ranger Rune.

Elite skills, hmm they are supposed to be rare elite skills, hence not every one has them, You are ment to be lucky to find them. If everybody had them they may as well just be skills like the rest. They are not hugely more powerful than other skills, if used in conjunction with other elite skills they may be, but you can only use one at a time anyway.

If you are aiming to find that one elusive upgrade then folly you, you have just created a grind for yourself. On the other hand if you are just interested in playing and not bothered what you find, then there is actually no grind at all.

ALL GAMES get boring if you over dose on them. The "Grind" is totally dependant on how you play and what you want.

Now if thats all, the to grind or not to grind is not a game design flaw or advantage, but is relative to the player themselves. Please let this be the end of a pointless debate.
In order to get any variety in this game without having to go through from level 1 again is to grind with your main character. Without the grind you are pigeonholed into a few similar builds. If you do grind you are much more adaptable because you have a much wider variety of skills.

This game was pefect in BWE. The pve player got everything he wanted and the pvper got everything he wanted. IMO the devs for this game alienated a lot of the hard core pvpers instead of just keeping it as it was. If the game was released like it was during BWE the PvE crowd wouldn't of known the difference and the pvpers could of had there cake and ate it to.

Poppinjay

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2005

23 May 2005 at 01:22 - 63
I have a level 20 character and have not been able to get a single elite skill.

I can't even find access to all the normal skills.

PJ

elorei

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Apr 2005

23 May 2005 at 14:01 - 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teh Azman
It's called elite for a reason...

yes, and the reason is because you are allowed ONE at a time on your skillbar.

thats it.

wait, are you going to tell me its called elite because only those people willing to spawn camp like everquest are allowed to get it?

relientK_fan

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

Somewhere, Nowhere

Sith Overlords[SO]

W/Mo

23 May 2005 at 14:04 - 65
Oh, please. Shut up and go play an FPS if you don't want a grind. Every RPG has a grind, so shut up. I personally like a bit of grind, but no EQ grind. Do us all a favor, and leave these forums, so we won't have to listen to your whining. Peace out.

elorei

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Apr 2005

23 May 2005 at 14:08 - 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by relientK_fan
Oh, please. Shut up and go play an FPS if you don't want a grind. Every RPG has a grind, so shut up. I personally like a bit of grind, but no EQ grind. Do us all a favor, and leave these forums, so we won't have to listen to your whining. Peace out.

well at least you are admitting there *IS* a grind.

and no, every rpg DOES NOT have a grind. every MMO in teh vein of everquest does, yes. this game was billed to be ANYTHING but that. there is the complaint.

im glad you like to grind. im glad you like to do the exact same mindless thing over and over and think it makes you skilled. awesome for you.

relientK_fan

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

Somewhere, Nowhere

Sith Overlords[SO]

W/Mo

23 May 2005 at 14:13 - 67
Yeah, every RPG does have a grind. Ever play Final Fantasy X? Grind. Ever play Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic? Grind. Ever play Kingdom Hearts? Grind. See where I'm going? If you like RPGs, you like grind. You don't like the one game that tries to eliminate it, so quit crying. You don't like grind. Go tell mommy. Boohoo. I like Guild Wars. I like the fact that it has less grind than other MMORPGs. Now, if you don't like it, simple as this: DON'T PLAY IT. Go play a game where there is not a grind. You'll be hard pressed to find one.

NiknudStunod

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2005

23 May 2005 at 14:14 - 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by relientK_fan
Oh, please. Shut up and go play an FPS if you don't want a grind. Every RPG has a grind, so shut up. I personally like a bit of grind, but no EQ grind. Do us all a favor, and leave these forums, so we won't have to listen to your whining. Peace out.

I really don't understand the need to post like this. You could list your reasons why you think we are wrong, but acting like a child and flaming people who want to talk about this issue pretty much just gets your entire post ignored.

NiknudStunod

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2005

23 May 2005 at 14:22 - 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by relientK_fan
Yeah, every RPG does have a grind. Ever play Final Fantasy X? Grind. Ever play Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic? Grind. Ever play Kingdom Hearts? Grind. See where I'm going? If you like RPGs, you like grind. You don't like the one game that tries to eliminate it, so quit crying. You don't like grind. Go tell mommy. Boohoo. I like Guild Wars. I like the fact that it has less grind than other MMORPGs. Now, if you don't like it, simple as this: DON'T PLAY IT. Go play a game where there is not a grind. You'll be hard pressed to find one.
You need to understand what a grind is before you post. I have never had to grind in any single player rpg. The grind was created in the mmorpg's to increase the time it takes to complete a game. The only part about guildwars that takes less time is the time it takes to go from min level to max level. I have put 150 played hours into my war/mes and I still don't have everything I want. In comparison I could level out in WoW or DaoC in that time as well and because of the in game market get most of what I needed. Finally if you are going to flame please do it elsewhere.

elorei

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Apr 2005

23 May 2005 at 14:31 - 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by relientK_fan
Yeah, every RPG does have a grind. Ever play Final Fantasy X? Grind. Ever play Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic? Grind. Ever play Kingdom Hearts? Grind. See where I'm going? If you like RPGs, you like grind. You don't like the one game that tries to eliminate it, so quit crying. You don't like grind. Go tell mommy. Boohoo. I like Guild Wars. I like the fact that it has less grind than other MMORPGs. Now, if you don't like it, simple as this: DON'T PLAY IT. Go play a game where there is not a grind. You'll be hard pressed to find one.

umm, how can you grind in KOTOR?
are you just making crap up now? did you use some uber secret hax or some crap to make stuff respawn? no? you are just talking out of your ass? ok, just making sure.

as to this game having LESS grind than other MMOs, thats debatable also. sure, you can get to lvl 20 in this game fast. thats like getting to lvl 5 in WOW. yay for you, you finished the tutorial. getting to 5 in WoW is no grind, getting to 20 in GW is no grind.

getting the skills you want? get ready for it. but hey! you like to grind. thats good, cause you will be.

Khrysyl

Khrysyl

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2005

23 May 2005 at 14:33 - 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by NiknudStunod
I am sorry that I wanted to be competitive in a competitive game. Isn't the reason to play in the ladders to get as high as possible? I am not talking about HoH or any of the other arenas. I am talking about GvG battles. I am far from being a crap player IMO. I have gone through the game once with my War/Mes and I don't really want to have to go back and farm for elite skills just to compete with the best. I never said i wanted to be leet but I guess its just a crime to want to do well in a game.
So, tell me again, in a GvG battle, why is it neccessary for each and every participant to have such a wide variety of skills and runes? I though GvG was a team battle, but the way you describe it (and the way most hardcore PvP players seem to view it) it is every one for him/herself. "If *I* don't have every skill, I can't compete", seems to be the way most people view this, but the fact is, if GvG is a team endeavor then it is the team that needs a good mix of skills, not the individual.

Or does GvG have a different definition of team?

Loviatar

Underworld Spelunker

Join Date: Feb 2005

23 May 2005 at 14:48 - 72
according to some hardcore players they would not use elites if the others did not use them

someone said recently that since everybody is going after the top elites and equipment they HAD to get the same to be competitive

SOLUTION

GET RID OF ELITES IN PVP
GET RID OF SUPERIOR RUNES IN PVP
GET RID OF THE SUPER RARE WEAPON UPGRADES IN PVP

LEVEL PLAYING FIELD WITH MINIMUM WORK

BEFORE YELLING *I NEED IT* REMEMBER THAT THE OTHER PLAYER DOES NOT HAVE IT EITHER

[QUOTE]Sausaletus Rex

And while none of that is needed to have *a* win, it's necessary to have *many* wins - to be competitive - especially in an environment where everyone else can go out and obtain those advantages even if you don't. It's an arms race; if everyone could agree not to grind and to just PvP with premades and un-upgraded weapons then no one would have to bother with it but as soon as someone starts grinding then everyone else has to in order to catch up.[/QUOTE]

elorei

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Apr 2005

23 May 2005 at 14:51 - 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khrysyl
So, tell me again, in a GvG battle, why is it neccessary for each and every participant to have such a wide variety of skills and runes? I though GvG was a team battle, but the way you describe it (and the way most hardcore PvP players seem to view it) it is every one for him/herself. "If *I* don't have every skill, I can't compete", seems to be the way most people view this, but the fact is, if GvG is a team endeavor then it is the team that needs a good mix of skills, not the individual.

Or does GvG have a different definition of team?
and each team member should have the tools to benefit the team.

without the wide variety of skills, you are less versatile. without that versatility, you are less useful to the team. when the team is comprised of useless peope, the team is useless.

each and every participant MUST be at the top of their game, or they are not helping (and in some cases hindering) the team.

you know the old adage, a chain is only as strong as its weakest link. same applies here.

maybe its ok with you to drag your team down from lack of usefulness in a pvp fight. most of us prefer to be a useful member, that contributes to the win. if you think you can help a team while using no runes and no elites, stay the hell offa my team, no offense to you personally.

Kismet

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Apr 2005

Westland, MI

Karma Payment Plan <leader>

23 May 2005 at 14:53 - 74
I have only one Elite skill, and I got it during a mission very easily. Other members of my guild have spend alot of time trying to find their Elites, but that was part of the fun of getting them. I've never considered anything a grind in this game, including the infusion runs (which I found to be quite enjoyable). I guess it's how you look at it individually. There's no sense in arguing about it, everyone is going to see things from a different perspective.

NiknudStunod

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2005

23 May 2005 at 14:55 - 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khrysyl
So, tell me again, in a GvG battle, why is it neccessary for each and every participant to have such a wide variety of skills and runes? I though GvG was a team battle, but the way you describe it (and the way most hardcore PvP players seem to view it) it is every one for him/herself. "If *I* don't have every skill, I can't compete", seems to be the way most people view this, but the fact is, if GvG is a team endeavor then it is the team that needs a good mix of skills, not the individual.

Or does GvG have a different definition of team?
You need to look at it from a broader point of view. The reason to have a variety of skills and spell is so you can adapt to your team. If you are in a large guild the chances that you will be fighting with the same people all the time are small.

For instance I am a Warrior/mes. Lets say I happen to be on a warrior heavy team. I will then put more of my Mes skills on my bar to help with interupts and such. Or lets say I am playing with 2 other mesmers on my team at the time and everyone has the same skill focus of domination. If I spent the time and got the skills from each of the other skill trees then I can switch my spec with ease. These are just a few of the reasons why the grind is so very important in this game.

Khrysyl

Khrysyl

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2005

23 May 2005 at 15:01 - 76
edit: post deleted after reading more responses

ssnider75

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2005

23 May 2005 at 15:29 - 77
Perhaps the best solution is to have different arenas. Have one that allows you to use only non-elite skills. That way, no one you are fighting with or against will have any skill you do not have. Have another arena that is unlimited. This arena is for the people that want to take the time to get all the elites.

This way, if you do not want to spend all that time looking for elite skills and using signet of capture, you don't have to and can still play on a level skill field.

Everyone is happy. The PvP'ers get the out of the box level playing field. The people that have to have every skill for PvP can still do that if they want. The PvE people keep playing the way that they are.

EnDinG

Keyboard + Mouse > Pen

Join Date: Apr 2005

Mo/W

23 May 2005 at 15:32 - 78
This topic has been milked enough. Do a search for grind and have fun that way. New threads are far from needed.