So, who's the "scammer" here? Me, or this other guy?

It all started as a nice peacful day, until I reached Sanctum Cay. I wannted to get the mission over with quickly, so I looked for someone (like a W/Mo tank) who could run the mission for me (what can I say? I was really hungry, so I thought I would let the guy run it for me whilst I go eat lunch). Anyway, I found a level 20 W/Mo called "-----" who was running, and he only wanted 1k (500 at cutscene, and 500 at Oasis). So, when the mission started, I went to grab lunch. I came back minutes later to find the runner (on the party window) had died. I was "WTF?". All he said was "wtf my bad every1 dye". But I told him "Wait, I'll come res you". Luckily, I had Sprint with me, so I barely BARELY made it to where he was (I almost died numerous times, since I had to run past so many enemies). I used Rebirth, and revived him, and he's like "thankz man". So, he continues to run to the cutscene, and I follow behind him just in case he "dies" again. Isn't really what I'm paying for... I'm paying for a run, not to follow someone around and keep them alive. But, hey. It's no biggie. We get to the cutscene together, and he demands half payment. No problem, I pay him 500g.

Next, I die, and watch him as he runs to the beach. Before we bagan, he ASSURED me he could tank the beach and survive, so I trusted him. I couldn't be MORE wrong. He got to the beach, and immediatly gets swamped and died within seconds. He was like "sorries guyz, i messed up". Anyway, we respawn back at the outpost. By now, three of the other members of the team he was running just left. He's like "go again guyz?". Me and the remaining members say "Sure". If he was a good runner, we assumed he would give us some sort of discount for the fail. Anyway, he got a few more people to fill up the rest of the team, and began again. The second run was just as bad as the first. I died early, so I had a chance to watch him this time. He was TERRIBLE. He was such a bad runner... He didn't even take Balanced Stance or Charge with him. He kept constantly dying and getting stuck. Luckily, there was a ranger who was next to him who kept reviving him and healing him, and helping him get "unstuck". The ranger was just another random guys like me who was paying for the run. He BARELY makes it to the cutscene.

After the cutscene, I run ahead a bit as he collects payments from others. Next thing I know, I hear him shouting "where are you xevious?!?!", and I replied "I'm a little bit ahead". He comes to where I am, and demands payment. "give me my money! you didn't pay!" I'm like "Excuse me? I already paid you half after the cutscene on the first run that you failed", and he's like "ohhhh, right. soz." So, we continue. Luckily, we all made it to the beach cause we fought most of the enemies on the way there (stupid runner didn't help, just stood around most of the time). When we finally get to the beach, he runs ahead trying again to "tank" it. Needless to say, he quickly get's swamped... AGAIN! He had crappy armor, and not even any good skills required to sucsessfully tank. So, me and this other guy who was in the party (me him, and the runner where the only ones still alive) quickly run up to the beach to meet him, and help him. Me and this guy fight and lead all the enemies away from ----- (the runner). Meanwhile, ----- just stands there doing nothing. Another second, and he would have been dead. We do like 99% of the work. Finally, the NPC summons the ship, and we run on.

After the cutscene, we end up in the Oasis. Everyone is very well pissed. Then, ----- demands payment. I'm like "WTF, man? You didn't do ****!". We get into a huge argument that lasts about 30 minutes. He calls me a scammer for not paying, I call him a scammer for not being able to run a mission that he initially promised. And he's like "you idiot scammer!!", and keeps constantly insulting me. As we were arguing, I mentioned how many times we had to help him, including the last time we had to help him complete the mission on the beach, all he kept saying to me "i told u not 2 help on the beach! i told u!", and all I said was, "Dude, you suck. You died the first time on the beach, and you were gonna die again if we hadn't help lead them away". And he said "i could hav done it by myself!", and I just laughed "lol. Besides, it's funny how you only told me not to help you AFTER I died on the beach, and the mission was pretty much in the bag". Anyway, after the argument, he blocks me and leaves. So, I need to know, was it not right that I didn't pay him the other 500g, or did he not deserve it because he didn't fulfill his agreement of running us?

It's not alowed to past names. And he's the scammer because he advertised a run not to fight and rez him the whole time

That . . . guy is pathetic. He offered to run with crappy everything. Hes the scammer. BTW not allowed to post names.

lol Nice Lama.

He's not a scammer...just an idiot...you didn't get what you were promised = no need to pay.

Remove his name...

He advertised falsely, but I wouldnt call him a scammer. It was his intent to run the entire mission, even if he was not competent enough to do so.

Edit: Holy crap, I know this guy. Remove the name please

i agree with the other comments, you don't need to pay for that mess. He just falsly advertised something he couldn't do.

Actually, you promised to pay, and he promised to run. He did half the work, and you paid him half. I wouldn't start a thread about this. It's a done deal. You got what you paid for.

My guess is you (and others that find themselves in such situations) may be concerned that he will report you for non-payment to Anet. If thats a worry, put it out of your mind. One look at the server logs will show any mod that you were indeed "fighting" the mission, and not being run, so theres no case to be made since the service wasn't rendered.

But it could have been, so its not fair to call him a scammer either. You got a new runner, someone who had probably run it a few times and succeeded only to flop in a paying group. Worse is the droks mentality; that he figured people would stick around while he tried to do the mission 3-4 times until he made it. Inexperienced, over-reaching and foolish: yes. Scam: not from what I read.

But theres a lesson in this. Printscreen is important, for service provider and customer both. In your case, i doubt there will be an issue, but often people advertise services they are not capable of fullfilling...and try to keep your money.

Exactly Silent Kitty!

I totally agree. You payed 500 gold and you got run for 500 gold worth. Granted, he demands 500 gold afterwards, but as mentioned, no need to start a thread.

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you; you shouldn't pay at all. But there's absolutely no point in starting a thread and asking about a situation that is so obviously in your favor.

PS: Not trying to be mean, start flaming or anything like that. I'm on your side. Just saying that there's no need for a thread.

you shouldnt pay sh*t
that bastard should be banned from
gw for lying and letting you do all
the dirty work

next time get a run from me

man that run is SO EASY!

you should quit after the first time ... and find new runner

Yeah and theres still people at sanctum cay going "THEY NERFED IT YOU CANT RUN IT" which is good for me though as i can charge more ^ ^

Scamming on his side would be taking your money in advance, and leaving.
Scamming on your part would not be paying.

When im getting the run, i deduct money after each time he dies. Was doing an infusion run for 300 gp, the guy died twice...so i only gave him 150. Yes, not alot of money, but in bigger proportion, it would affect him.

I wouldn't pay sh*t.

Ya he is defiently the scammer. If he does report you i wouldnt worry to much since anyone can see that you helped fight, so you did nothing wrong. I had a level 13 try to run the SC mission yesterday. He did it easily. Once on the beach he just stood there and healed himself, take in all the damage then healing himself. Worked great he beat it on the first run. And it was FREE. You can find practice runs for just about anything.

Don't get run by strangers. never a problem. taxi services are an Extraneous and volunteer activity. I personally will never do it for anyone outside my guild. and I never charge for such a menial task. but if that blows your skirt up. more power to you. The game is much more enjoyable if you actually play it... Is it any wonder people are complaining they are bored if they constantly get run everywhere and never actually play anything? In my humble opinion. They deserve to be bored and feel like they wasted their money on the game... Heck they didn't play 80% of it. what do they expect?

For the record you didn't scam anyone. he was just an incompetent running service that should not be doing it to begin with...

Note to self: never get any runners who can't spell.

Sounds like you waisted 30min fighting with a Tard.Next time use ignore and go about you business

he's an idiot, you wasted 30 min talking to a wall<-- which sounds like all he's capable doing anyways...being a wall.

I wouldn't have paid him had he performed that badly on the first half. When he promises he can run it and doesn't. He's broken his end of the deal. Thus, you owe him no payment for his mistake.

no, you are wrong

he paid for a complete run. how much is a halfway job when the screen says mission failed go do it again?

he paid for someone to do the work for him.

he did not pay for the right to do the work himself while the workman stands on the sidelines and watches the person paying do his job.

he did not get what he paid for.

at that rate the so called runner should have paid his customers

"Next, I die, and watch him as he runs to the beach. Before we bagan, he ASSURED me he could tank the beach and survive, so I trusted him. I couldn't be MORE wrong. He got to the beach, and immediatly gets swamped and died within seconds. He was like "sorries guyz, i messed up". Anyway, we respawn back at the outpost. By now, three of the other members of the team he was running just left. He's like "go again guyz?". Me and the remaining members say "Sure". If he was a good runner, we assumed he would give us some sort of discount for the fail. Anyway, he got a few more people to fill up the rest of the team, and began again. The second run was just as bad as the first. I died early, so I had a chance to watch him this time. He was TERRIBLE. He was such a bad runner... He didn't even take Balanced Stance or Charge with him. He kept constantly dying and getting stuck. Luckily, there was a ranger who was next to him who kept reviving him and healing him, and helping him get "unstuck". The ranger was just another random guys like me who was paying for the run. He BARELY makes it to the cutscene."

Actually i died while running to the boat which was completely summoned, if you would have asked me i would have given you the run for half or free, i made that deal with the person in slot one. I died once the second time (stuck against wall and hounds) ranger never healed (R/Me)

"(stupid runner didn't help, just stood around most of the time). When we finally get to the beach, he runs ahead trying again to "tank" it. Needless to say, he quickly get's swamped... AGAIN! He had crappy armor, and not even any good skills required to sucsessfully tank. So, me and this other guy who was in the party (me him, and the runner where the only ones still alive) quickly run up to the beach to meet him, and help him. Me and this guy fight and lead all the enemies away from ----- (the runner). Meanwhile, ----- just stands there doing nothing. Another second, and he would have been dead. We do like 99% of the work. Finally, the NPC summons the ship, and we run on."

I had 0 into axe mastery, i never died there (beach), you five ran to kill them, seeing me do 1-2 dmg i was waiting for either all of you die so i could tank or move back like i requested. I have Droks armor, you can't get better than that for defense, (Screen Shots if you would like). Weren't you the one asking about how you tank this mission and what skills to use??? I had no axe mastery, sword mastery, nor bow mastery. 1-2 dmg wasnt going to do much. I never got even close to dying there on the second mission.

Edit: Also, PLEASE note that he is spelling what I said very badly, butchering it even, I do know how to spell "have" and I have better grammer than "we hadn't help lead them away"

Also I was going to give him his money back but he refused, saying "keep it"

"After the cutscene, we end up in the Oasis. Everyone is very well pissed. Then, ----- demands payment. He calls me a scammer for not paying, I call him a scammer for not being able to run a mission that he initially promised. And he's like "you idiot scammer!!", and keeps constantly insulting me. As we were arguing, I mentioned how many times we had to help him, including the last time we had to help him complete the mission on the beach, all he kept saying to me "i told u not 2 help on the beach! i told u!", and all I said was, "Dude, you suck. You died the first time on the beach, and you were gonna die again if we hadn't help lead them away". And he said "i could hav done it by myself!", and I just laughed "lol. Besides, it's funny how you only told me not to help you AFTER I died on the beach, and the mission was pretty much in the bag""


First, I don't think anyone was "pissed" at all except for you, most of them happily opened trade and said thank you. And you WEREN'T insulting me either? You do know theres more ppl in the party than YOU to talk to, right? Actually you died rather early into it at just the first group.

He's not a scammer neither are u he's just a wanabee runner

i agree couldnt have said it better myself

Neither of you are scammers.

A scammer won't go through that much effort just to get 1k.

How could I have scammed if I didn't get the money?

Firstly, you didn't die "running" to the boat, you died almost instantly when you got to the beach as the first mob began to swamp you. I remember.

Funny, because I DID ask you for a discount, and you refused. When I said it's customary for runners to give discounts if they fail, all you said was "well that's not how I do it, now pay up!".

I remember you dying twice on the second run. Once earlier on, and a second time later. I think there was another Monk who revived you the first time, and the ranger used his Res sig the second time you died. And I can remember more than one instance where you got "stuck" and the ranger had to help you.

On the first run, you DID die on the beach very easily. I assumed you would change some of your skills or attributes on the second run so you could sucessfully tank it, yet, you got swamped again on the second run, and your health dropped very low by the time the rest of us ran onto the beach to help you. And I'm pretty sure you would have died (just like on the first run) if we hadn't have helped you.

I remember quite a few times where you spelled that way. I may have over-exaggerated it a bit in my first post, however, you still spoke like that.

You only offered a refund after your FIRST failed run. After I said "keep it", I meant keep it as payment for the end of the second run. However, you obviously took it as I meant for you to keep it for no reason. Why on earth would I give you 500g for a failed run?

I pretty much remember you were the one who was insulting me the whole time, calling me an "idiot", a "scammer", a "retard", and other stuff like "how old r u? 9? 7?" If I remember correctly, I only called you an "idiot" once near the end of the argument. Before that, I was trying to be calm and rational as you kept insulting me.

No, I didn't. I died early in the second run, but not the first.

lol this is pretty funny, this is why i dont pay ppl to run missions for me, i just get my guildies to do it.

this is better than Days of Our Lives

*takes out the popcorn*

Love the post - haven't laughed so much since my five year old had a paddy when he lost his toys!

when a runner dies in a, as you point it out, n00bish way i leave.

imho you should have done that after the first death of the runner and get a decent one. you wasted your time trying to make the world a better place.

i think that droks is the only run where i can accept a couple of rundeaths since it's very hard and a bit spawn-dependable.

I died the first time while running to the summoned boat, I should know since I was doing it, searing heat got me while running and body blocked from most sides.

If you wanted a discount you should have asked earlier not when you were going to pay. Then it would have been granted.

The boat was completely summoned and I was trying to run to it

I did change my skillset but i never got even close to dying, hell, i didn't take 50 dmg on that run, seeing as all of you, agaist my wishes, ran to attack, which was fine by me because I was waiting for you to die or more to spawn so I could do what I was suppose to

You exaggerated way more than was needed. If you can tell from my posts I don't talk like that.

Many times when doing UW or FoW when everyone has payed and then have to leave, lost favor just before, or any other things, they just let you keep it.

Everyone MUST have died early on the first, seeing as I was the only person left when the boat was summoned and I was running to it.

Edit: Please tell me, why do you think Drok's Glad Armor with Knight's Boots is "crappy armor", or have you just never seen it? Would you have said that if I had FoW armor? I doubt it but it is just a waste of money for no extra boosts to anything

If you still don't like my armor, tell me what I SHOULD be using.

Oh, and I ignored you because of the constant insults.

You guys are both idiots for arguing about such a trivial matter, you all got to where you wanted to go in the end didn't you? Let it go...-_-

Well, all i can say is it just goes to show that not everyone is as honest as they portray.

Yes, I would really like to let it go, except for him trying to ruin my reputation and all.

This is turning into a lot of "He said / He Said". When all is said and done, no scamming went on here. You were willing to pay 1k to get to the desert, and you got there. You may have done more work than you had intended, but the end result is the same. It sounds like you had a few chances to decide whether the runner was qualified to continue the run, and you chose to stay with it. Hey, you even got some more experience than you would have by staying put.

Now, if you want to see what real scamming looks like...

Wrong, wrong, wrong. If you agree to this before hand, then fine, that's the "contract". If not, you are the scammer. What gives you the right to arbitrarily decide payment after it's been agreed?

"Let's see... I pulled aggro off him at the beginning, that's 25g per mob, so take off 75 gold. Oh, and he died once, deduct 75. He had to stop twice to heal, let's say 100 gold. And frankly, I could have seen a little more sprinting around those bodyblockers - 50 gold might teach him a lesson. Hey - free run!"

If you don't agree to discounts before the run, you are not entitled to apply them after it's begun. Sorry.

Thank you for finally posting on MY side, (not counting neutral), well its kind of neutral but at least it's not hate spam

I saw in a post once probably about a drok's scam, (sorry for taking the quote (paraphrased))

"Many people scam runners all day and no one cares, but when a runner scams its World War 3."

I could post a topic for every person who scammed me and you know what? I would probably get banned for spam, actually I'm sure I would be.

you are paying for a trip to the desert, if you could finally get to the dersert then the runner deserves to be paid. You cannot deny if it are without him, or without the group, you couldn't get to the desert. Now he leads a goup and saves your fighting time you already should pay him no matter if he sucks. I used to be a droknar runner and I sometimes needed help from other clients to sacrifice for me in order to complete the run and I didn't allow them to go suicide like an idiot.

In short, if someone could send you to the destination by any means then he doesn't suck and you should pay him.

You can't really call him a runner or a scammer. More like a half-whit who doesn't know shit.

In stead of avoiding a 30 minute argument. why didint u just put him on ignore list? You didint scam him from i read, and you know you didint, so just walk away.....
Somebody as unorganised and un-skilled as that simply dosent desevre to be paid anyway.

I love hate spam don't you all?

At least provide some reasons instead of saying "He is dumb" or "He is stupid"

None of you were there to know what actually happened