Separate FoW and UW from PvP

I am a PvE guy and an ardent PvE guy. I tried PvP, I have done well in PvP and I honestly hate PvP. I love conquering PvE over and over. Doing quests, clearing areas and so forth. My most beloved areas in the game are the Fissure of Woe and the Underworld. Fissure ranks highest, then the Underworld and everything else is a distant third.

Now, I would like to propose that ANet separate FoW and UW from PvP. As it stands now, FoW and UW are only accessible if your region has favor. Favor, as we all know is decided by who wins in the Hall of Heroes five times in a row. The Hall of Heroes is one of the advanced forms of PvP.

As a PvE'er. I am ticked off at this. Aside from the nights when my region is unable to even get favor and I am reduced to farming or doing missions I have done dozens of times before, it places these areas out of my reach for no fault of mine nor for any conceivable reason. In addition, it is hypocritical of ANet. Let's examine these arguments quick:

1-Hypocrisy: Gradually, ANet has freed PvPers from the confines of the PvE world. With the introduction of faction, hardcore PvP players can fully unlock everything they want in the game without ever setting foot in Ascalon City. They even moved them to Battle Isles so that they don't have to even LOOK at Ascalon City. the highest and lowest levels of PvP do not require any playtime in PvE what so ever. On the flip side, PvE'ers like me can ignore PvP completely until they get to the highest and finest challenge in PvE when they are told: "No, you can't play here as you please, PvP players will decide how much you get to play here." It's like telling PvP players that they access to Heroes' Ascent will be decided based on which territory completes Orozar's quest the most. Something I am sure sounds completely retarded to PvP players.

2-No recourse: As a player who has excelled in the Fissure and the UW, I am used to their extremely high challenges. Nothing in the game even comes close. The other place with repeatable quests (Sorrow's Furnace) has been turned into a complete joke by green farmers. You can't get a group to quest there any more.

3-I don't like PvP: The usual response (usually from snobbish PvP players) is, well, why don't you win the favor back for your territory and solve the problem? The honest truth is: I HATE PvP. I get let thrill from beating 4 or 8 other human players ina game of skill than I do from actually acomplishing something and completing quests and slaying terrible foes. The game should not force me to play in an area (or stye) that I don't like so that I can play in the style that I do like. I believe there was a proclaimed dedication from ANet to both sides of the game. Unfortunately, for the PvE side, all they keep catering to is the lousy farming community. More greens, bigger slavage kits!

I tried to ask this change of ANet but was told to go peddle my case on internet forums and hope and pray that an ANet developer will come across my post and see that others have taken a liking to my suggestion. So, this is what I am doing. It is my last bid to do this before giving up on the game. Canceled the pre-order of Factions already.

That's why there are other high level areas for PvE when your faction doesn't have favor. Ex. Sorrow's Furnace, Tombs, etc, and I'm sure plenty more will come out in Factions. Although I agree it is a little strange to have a PvE area rely on the success of PvP players, I'm sure Arena.Net has a reason for it, whether it be to control the over farming of rare items, or just to "unify" the PvP and PvE communites.

I confess as an rpg player, I like how anet has made UW and foW. You also have tombs now too.

At one point, Alex Weekes asked for some hard data from the community to show that there was an imbalance in the time a single territory held favor. If we could show that, then perhaps the whole WaW concept would be re-examined.

I know there was one person that was trying to accumulate data but I don't know if he/she is still doing so or even interested. In any case, I don't think anything is about to change unless there's data to show it's unfair to a majority of players.

SF=a joke, greens are merchant food
new tombs=same as above

without the favor aspect of fow/uw anet would just continue to nerf the place to death, because of the mass ebay farmers ect

i personally hate pvp but its the only way of keeping fow/uw as the last decent farming area

Those two "high level" adventuring areas are nothing more than farming grounds. I don't know if it's by design or accident, but you can't "adventure" in Sorrow's Furnace any more (try and form a party to do High Priest Alkar's quest or FA quest, not FA farm).

The Ruins of the Tombs is a farming area. There are no quests, there is no challenge, just a way for Ecto farmers to farm ectos without acces to UW and a place for farming new greens. Zzzzz.

And I would like to know ANets reasons for tying FoW and UW to favor, if it's about drops, that's easy, make drops of those rare materials less frequently.

/signed, and I don't even really care about PVE. I can still tell that "worlds at war" is a pointless inconvenience with disparate impacts for no real reason.

/not signed

I personally like the fact you have to have favor to enter UW/FoW, even though UW is one of my favorite farming spots too. It ties the game together. Without it, the game would be even more separated PvE/PvP. It also gives you a feeling that having favor actually means something.

/signed and double signed for the mess that is coming called Factions. For anyone following Factions knows that after Factions version of Ascention, everything but the Elite Missions are PvP and PvP mini games. This means PvEers are going to be even more reliant on PvP to gain access to areas.
That marketing dribble that PvE can also aid in moving the borders is just that, marketing dribble.
Competitive Missions = PvP mini games where scoring higher than the other team and mini skirmishes occur. These missions are needed for faction points.
Alliance Battles = goes without saying, PvP on a larger scale.
Coop Missions = if you've heard the interview on gamingsteve.com you'll already know that pre-ascention in factions is around 10% of the game; which means the other 80% is PvP based with the remaining 10% being quests and elite missions. These missions are accessed only when controlled by the same faction as the one you belong too and then you are able to spend your faction points to enter them. Meaning access to them is available after PvP wins them, and after you've PvP'd to farm the faction points.

Before someone tries to say the competitive missions are not PvP, think about it a little bit. Modern day sports play in an "arena" type area and play for points. Golf is a great example as is racing (NASCAR). The course is the challenge, but placement, skill and score is playing against the other players. This example is also confirmed at the end of the interview when Jeff S and "Steve" talk about Guild Wars and the direction of E-Sports.

As for it bringing the two play styles closer, it does if you enjoy both play types. It creates a larger rift between the two if you dont.

I also canceled my pre-order (days ago now) and will pass on buying Factions. It's not only cause I'm forced into a play style I don't care for, but because there isn't $50 worth of PvE content for me to play in.
I'll hold out till Novemeber and the release of Chapter 3 (also mentioned in the interview). Maybe PvE will get the same attention in Chapter 3 that PvP got in Factions.

So yea, remove PvE reliance from PvP or make it so it's balanced. Lock down PvP areas till PvE opens them through a multi-tude of missions and quests. Ie. Bring them closer.

For the details on this information head over to gamingsteve.com and hear the interview yourself. The majority of talk is PvP based even though "Steve" tries to talk about PvE many times. Jeff S even boasts about "griefing" players and how he enjoyed doing so. You'll hear the ratios given and November time line for Chapter 3 amoung many other things.

PS. Not ranting, not flaming, not trolling, just being a realist and stated only my opinion and shared information from the interview of Jeff S and all current info on Factions. If any of this information is incorrect, an Anet rep has yet to correct it and I have stated this same info in posts where Gaile has frequently posted. - That said, Factions will be an awesome game for those who enjoy any form of PvP. For the rest of us... meh - I say save your money and we'll see about Chapter 3.

Merchant food ROCKS!

well, i have said this from the start, and i have never even set foot in these places..

it defies logic to make a percentage of the players locked out from an area because their side has not got the favor of the gods...
and while im at it...

why would the favor of a God allow access to an area at all?
it would make much more sence for their favour to alow you to access sertain quests (all inthe name of said deity) or skills ect.
why would a god of any kind have sometihng to do with someplace...a place...i mean, they dont even have a corporeal form! there like....Daniel Jackson, without the glowwy bits or glassess

*ahem*
/signed....tis silly to have a god associated with something physical, when you can see clearly right thru them ;p

Though I'm also extremely nonplussed by PvP I can only say the limited access time to UW/FoW can be a good thing. After your territory has had favour 5 hours there's usually nothing happening and groups forming there are almost always pretty terrible (in attitude as much as anything else). But I've found that in the first 30 minutes or so after gaining favour, people that actually want to go there are fairly easy to find. After a few hours you only have a slow stream of arrogant farming bots (maybe people, but if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, I'm calling them ducks) just like SF. And furthermore having access restricted somewhat makes them more "special" and worthy of conquering. This is my experience on european servers at least. I'm not sure having access negotiated by PvP is the best idea but I can't suggest what I'd replace it with, and the binary Kurzick/Luxon concept in factions is as good as any. At least this should improve things for places like Japan and Taiwan, who have been in the ridiculous position of (as far as I can tell), having never, or practically never had favour.

I imagine places like ToPK and Sorrow's Furnace were added precisely for the purpose of having something to do when your region doesn't have favour. And at the start, Sorrows and ToPK were a lot of fun. I really enjoyed sorrows but I don't waste time with the inhabitants of either place now. I can only say factions won't arrive a moment too soon, and whether to be paid for, or not I welcome a 6 month schedule for new content.

I guess that kinda wandered away from the topic slightly. Maybe I've had it too good lately due to the necro spiking flavour of the month builds but while I too love fissure/uw areas and understand the point of the original poster I've got to go /unsigned for reasons in my first paragraph.

/not signed

Although I love FoW and can't get enough of it, I don't think it should be opened up always. The favor of the gods ties the whole game together, without it, might as well make two seperate games. Not to mention the extreme hurt to the economy of Ectos and Shards, and the various other drops down there.

Actually, PvP players HAVE to play the PvE.

You can't unlock rez signet with Faction.

/signed, double signed and triple signed!!!
I am not able to finish and even start the quests in SF, no one is interested in doing them not even my guildies. It's almost impossible to do them with hencies because the Alkar's quest requires your team to split up and henchies always follow you!!

/Angelica

/signed a 100,000 times over

The WaW concept is one of the -sorry Anet- dumbest ideas ever implemented in a computer game. PvE players can't influence favor, PvP players don't care for it...

Correct me if I'm wrong, (which I'm not because I just checked) but are Co-op missions not what the current pve missions are?

So this leads me to believe you are trying to say there will be no post-ascension missions. Durr.

I'd tend to agree - why should parts of your game be locked out and dependant on other people? (who likely aren't too interested in PvE anyway)

It's doubtful this will ever change though; if you read the FPE preview stuff, if anything, it's set to expand and push more PvP onto people who aren't really interested in it.

/Not signed

It would be harder forming groups for missions as that us when good crowds are there is when your server doesn't have favour and it does tie PvE with PvP as you can use your RP Char in PvP.

/signed

I used to not care about it, but now that Japan and Taiwan are in the mix, it just doesnt seem right. All these servers battling for favor means everyone gets it less. Or one territory gets it for a long time because there are so many that it becomes much harder for one server to win 5 in row to take it away.

/signed.

I agree that it's a bit unfair to have to worry about your server having favor to enter the only true challenging places in the game (IMO). It's sad that I hardly ever get to see UW & FoW, because the only times my server(America) has favor is usually very late at night, when I'm unable to be on due to my obligations in life. I hope you guys on the Europe server are having fun!

I would like to assemble teams for UW and FoW that are to clear the place out and stuff, but I can never assemble a team to do so. Everyone wants to just farm, and I want to do the quests. I have never completed a lot of the quests, and I'd like to explore the world there. Oh well...

/signed

I prefer my PvE over PvP, and dont want PvP to stop me from PvE'ing.

i am :x <3 server switch and favor when i get home

Its called "Guild Wars", not farming for the win. I love playing in fow, and uw. I even have threads about both here on guru. But I don't agree with you at all. The point is for your country to earn the right to play this part of the game, get good at pvp, win halls with your friends, then go rock uw and fissure with them. ...Guild...Wars

Yeah, exactly what she said. /Signed another tenth of a million times just because this petition needs it.

-Jessyi

/signed

I shouldnt be limited to go to FoW or UW based on how my server's PvP teams are doing...

I dont PvP and I yes I am happy that I am PvE only.

/Not Even Close To Being Signed

UW and FoW are a reward which has to be earned, It also give pvp'ers pride knowing there are helping all you pve'ers wanting to get there.

Plus if you had it all the time it would get bored of it, i myself enjoy PvP and PvE and i love shouting out loud YAY WE HAVE FAVOR. The Reason you all love it so much is because you cant have it all the time, Lets compere it to cake, I LOVE cake but i dont want it all the time because i would be sick of it (after a week and 3 new pant sizes).

All i can say is enjoy it as much while you still favor

Yes, it gives PvPers bragging rights and makes them feel superior, to put what you meant in clearer wording (no, I am not bashing PvP players here, I am one myself).

Also if earning favor would even MEAN a reward for PvP players I'd be all for it. I can tell you the earning access to _PvE_ areas is NOT what a PvPer would consider a reward. The WaW system is broken not only because it pisses off three quarters of the Guild Wars planet at a time, but mostly because the people earning the reward don't GET it. If favor would mean PvP players getting more faction points while their territory has it (or more fame or whatever), now THAT would be a reward for PvP players. Can you give me one single reason why a PvP player would even care for favor since it doesn't influence them in the slightest?

Most PvP players don't even care enough for favor to play in their home district. The more serious players are assembling their groups in international districts. Why? Because a PvP player is concerned about getting the best players for their teams, so they chose them from all around the world. You recruit players, not passports, you know? Most teams don't even know which territory they're fighting for until they enter the first combat area.

I love both PvE and PvP. I even like to think that Guild Wars was made for players just like me. But: When I play PvE I am angry that I can't go to UW/FoW and that there is no way to win access to these _PvE_ areas by doing PvE. When I do PvP I am in a position to win that access but not to make use of it when I do so (since I am doing PvP in this moment). The WaW system doesn't make the slightest sense, neither from a PvE view, nor from a PvP view and not even from combined PvP/PvE view. The only reason it's still there is that Anet is obviously not able to admit that it was a huge mistake to include it.

/signed

I am glad most people seem to be in agreement. Many of those disagreeing keep on saying "It's good to limit access to FoW and UW to keep them special and hardcore."

While there are flaws in this argument, I want to make it clear that this is not what the vote is about. If we want limited access to FoW or UW, then we can think of ways to implement that. That is a completely different concept than "we need to tie the high end end parts of the game to PvP."

I can think of different ways to limit access to either realm, but that is not what this petition is about. This is about the annoyance of tying our most beloved PvE areas to a realm we don't even want to play.

My guess is, ANet does not really care about PvE that much these days. I think they have made a decided move towards PvP in Factions. You can't even use the Res shrine straight up for God's sake without "Faction" with some group or another!

I guess one good thing about it is that pve-ers have a reason to take an interest in pvp which may cause them themselves to become serious pvpers.

There is an obvious imbalance and you are only supporting it. Let's say you completely clear out the Fissure of Woe, a task that takes a good 4-6 hours depending on your team build and proficieny (if someone's team does it in 30 minutes, no need to brag). It's a monumental undertaking in the game's PvE world. What reward does the game give you? Hmm.. 100k exp? 8 Skill Points? Access to Obisidian Chests (chest runners ftl!)?

Compare this to a "ranger spike" build, or a bunch of IWAY guys who "skip" into the courtyard, get to the Hall of Heroes and even win there (by skill or chance or both). Takes them a good 1 hour. They get: The BEST chest in the game AND fame to raise their rank AND faction to unlock items in the game AND their name is announced to the entire game's world AND they control the fate of the best PvE areas in ALL game territories.

Does that sound logical?

Winning in the Hall of Heroes pays off in terms of PvP in the form of faction points and fame so you can brag about your peni... er... rank emote in front of others. You can screen cap the announcement of "IWAY is not Gay's team has won a battle in the Hall of Heroes and keps the favor of the Gods for Indonesia" and post it in forums.

So, all you are saying is that it is extremely satisfying to hold that kind of edge over PvE players. I am sure it is... I simply think it's stupid.

Indonesia have been holding a lot lately :/

There's PvE-only content. There's PvP-only content. And there's content that requires the cooperation of both. That's cool.

Well then the solution... could be (emphasis on could) be simple. UW and FoW should be accessed by performing some overtly powerful PvE Quest which grants that PvE character an alloted time to enter UW and FoW.

In english:

Character and PUG/Guildies go out and perform some overtly long and complicated quest in SF/Tombs once completed those that participated to the very end get "Favored" by the Gods. This "favor" will last approximately X days. While "favored" a character can enter UW and FoW. This moves the access to PvE but doesnt allow it to get abused.

So what do we PvPers get for our win? Id rather prefer that PvP "favor" grants all PvPers of that same country accelerated Faction/Fame benefits.

In english

Japanese Team wins "favor" in PvP during that time all japanese players get accelerated Faction/Fame when they participate in PvP events. There could also be other "favor" like special arenas available to said country... that would be much more interesting for us PvPers rather then UW and FoW which I haven't ever set foot on cause Im a PvPer...

Also they really really really need to do something about farming if what Im reading is correct: SF and Tombs reduced to farming spots... bleh I might not be a constant PvEr but reducing places to stupid farming spots is dumb. Id prefer that farming be affected by the time spent on a place. The longer peoples character spend on a place the less rares they get there. Force PvErs to do other things rather then just farming jeez......

I believe that can be sorted out in a much better fashion. PvE content controlled by PvP can be annoying to those PvErs out there. Frankly I couldnt care a rat ass because Im a PvPer but I really feel for those PvE people out there. Not to mention if I get bored of PvP (rarely) I play PvE and I can sympathize with what is being said here. I believe some other sort of stuff can be PvE/PvP cooperative but controlling access to the best PvE areas in the hand of PvPers is not down correct. as well as making it harder due to all the other countries being brought in.

Or compare it to sex.

Or maybe that's a lousy comparison, because I would venture a lot of the people here don't know what sex feels like. lol

PvP players go to International districts to get away from IWAY only PvP'ers. You'd be hard pressed to find a balanced PUG in american district 1 but its mostly that in ID 1.. But SHHHHH don't tell the IWAY'ers we like ID1 to have less, although not much less, IWAY team spamming.

i have to say i dont care either way, cuz i stopped trying when i couldnt find a group that worked together.