I personaly make my own groups when do SF farming. Why? For two very simple reasons.
1. Rangers have a low chance of being accepted in SF farming groups.
2. I like my own builds I WILL NOT change my set which I'm comfortable with to make the leader feel better, I'm a player not a bloodly hench.
This guide may help the newer guys get set and comfortable with farming in SF till they can come up with a set that will work for them. Sorry to say I feel it's wrong everyone has to be a Trapper, MM, SS, Tank, Stancer, Interrupt, Nuker Healer, or Bonder just to have a chance of being accepted. Please don't give that bull that "They are the only builds that work." I haven't found my own build that I am comfortbable yet with my R/N but I tell you this when my Mo/Wa get there I'm not sitting back and mataining a dang thing :P I'll heal but won't sit back and twidle my tumbs and let all the fun pass by.
Sorrows Furnace. Play your role.
Leon_Ux-ixen
KvanCetre
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Originally Posted by MistressYichi
ok try this trick and when you have double the amount of minions because they are not constantly degenning, then you being a monk wont mind the occasional heal other on the necro due to the fact that you have twice the army you normally have.
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Savio
How to win PvE. Very informative.
wsmcasey
If you wana do ORO farming thats fine. Why isn't ORO in the title of this thread?
I prefer forming a well rounded group rather than this cookie cutter crap.
I prefer forming a well rounded group rather than this cookie cutter crap.
MelechRic
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Originally Posted by KvanCetre
Strange - my level 15 Death Magic MM has completed tons of runs without a single problem - and I do have a single attack skill!
Also strange - most of the experienced MMs I've been friends with all say the same thing: Fiends only. But of course, you're the expert here, not us. |
1. Corpse denial. If I'm under 25 energy but above 15 I can get a horror up instead of a fiend. This prevents a well or enemy fiend.
2. Horrors are good body blockers. They hold back most ground based melee and do decent damage to casters. I like to see a group of horrors holding back a mob while my equally large group of fiends snipes. Fiends seem vulnerable to melee. Dead fiends do no damage so I prefer to have a few horrors sucking the damage up.
3. Horrors + Fiends = larger army. It's nice to be able to scrub off any melee attention I get by running into my minion cluster. More than a few monks I've teamed with have used the minions to the same effect.
I like to think of it this way:
Horrors = mashed potatoes
Fiends = gravy
The only downside is that sometimes horrors will get stuck behind fiends and not go melee. I find this to be acceptable.
Lastly, I do bring two offensive skills: Life Siphon and Rotting Flesh. Siphon is to take a little pressure off the monk. I cast it when I have extra energy (ie no corpses available to me). Rotting is nice for a good group degen on mobs under SS. It takes some thinking to apply since you don't want to get it on any Gnashers w/ Plague Touch. Otherwise it's a good fire and forget skill.
As to the OP's thread... I'd only say that the skill bar isn't the most important factor that determines success. The brains behind that bar, however, are crucial to success. You can do well in SF with a variety of builds, but you have to be willing to try other things. This takes time that some people aren't willing to spend.
5 man template teams are out there because they are like IWAY... they are easy to build for newer players and they have a high success rate. The same goes for other types of teams like B/P in UW2 or 55hp Mo + SS/SV necro.
Haggard
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Originally Posted by UltimateWarrior101
Your elite skill should be Offering of Blood or Tainted Flesh.
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Oh and, only take fiends, as horrors deal tiny damage and can sometimes stop the tank from being able to tank.
Nater
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Originally Posted by Haggard
Glyph of Energy > OoB for MMing.
Oh and, only take fiends, as horrors deal tiny damage and can sometimes stop the tank from being able to tank. |
I've tried them all.
Zaxan Razor
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Originally Posted by UltimateWarrior101
Ok, I've been having trouble finding descent Sorrows Furnace groups lately. It's usually a good group, with the exception of 1 guy not doing his part. In a 5 man group, if 1 guy isnt doing his intended role, the whole team can suffer. I'm making a little guideline for you new players that want to try out sorrows furnace farming.
Tank: Do not bring attack skills. You're going to be holding a keg or a gear the entire time inside the furnace. Bring stances and shouts, and if you're a warrior/monk, bring balthazar's spirit and cast it upon yourself. Simple as that. Never drop the keg/gear, spam your stances and shouts. In my experience, the best elite to bring is Gladiatiors Defense, but if you want to bring Shield of Judgement or something else, thats fine. As long as you stick to stances/shouts, and NOT attack skills. Minion Master: 16 Death Magic is a must. Your role is to make minions and keep them alive. You do not need to bring attack skills. Deathly swarm should not be on your skillbar. Bring fiends and horrors. Your elite skill should be Offering of Blood or Tainted Flesh. There's no need for you to bring spiteful spirit. Put as many points in soul reaping as you have leftover from death. Spiteful Spirit: 16 Curses a must. You must be a Necromancer/mesmer. Don't bother arguing, N/Me is the most effective SS build. You MUST bring Spinal Shivers. Without that, killing monk bosses is going to take forever, or it will be impossible. Other than spiteful spirit and spinal shivers and arcane echo, you're pretty much free to bring whatever you want. I like to bring malaise, parasitic bond, and weaken armor, a hex removal from the mesmer skillbase, mantra of resolve, and rez sig or blood ritual. There is no need for you to bring any attack skills, and do not bring Mark of Pain. It causes enemies to scatter, making Spiteful less effective. The problem usually lies with these 3 players. The monks seem to always be good. I know this may sound like basic knowledge to some of you, and it is, but for some people, they just don't know. It's frustrating for me and other experienced players to team up with unexperienced players and waste time. I hope this helped, and I hope that people can start playing their roles a little better. |
So i don't see why everyone always wants to take the same team structure.
heavyduty
Most people don't farm these spots to have fun. Having fun is what guildmates are for. Blindly taking a more balanced team for this particular run only means everything is likely to take longer. It's hard enough already to find decent people that can play their role in the 5 man team, Who in their right mind would take a chance on an ele, mesmer or ranger? Ele's have bad energy management for extended damage output compared to an SS for the gear trick, the Rangers use of stances essentially nulls the bonders essense and Mesmers are primarily single target oriented characters.
All of you naysayers that hate the 'cookie cutter' crap are fooling yourselves if you think a popular and proven effective build is somehow inferior. How about posting in-depth proof on a better tactic? My main gripe is monks that don't use life attunement on the tank. On a subpar group this means failure.
edit: until anet once again makes changes to throw everything out the window.
All of you naysayers that hate the 'cookie cutter' crap are fooling yourselves if you think a popular and proven effective build is somehow inferior. How about posting in-depth proof on a better tactic? My main gripe is monks that don't use life attunement on the tank. On a subpar group this means failure.
edit: until anet once again makes changes to throw everything out the window.
Carinae
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Originally Posted by heavyduty
All of you naysayers that hate the 'cookie cutter' crap are fooling yourselves if you think a popular and proven effective build is somehow inferior. How about posting in-depth proof on a better tactic?
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You get laughed at, ridiculed, told that math & reason means nothing, told you're pathetic, stupid, brainless, skill-less, told that NO build is better than ANY other build, outright challenged for no apparent reason, and the best one: "Nu-uh!"
Nater
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Originally Posted by heavyduty
My main gripe is monks that don't use life attunement on the tank. On a subpar group this means failure.
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Fluffyx
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Originally Posted by Nater
Are you kidding? Life Attunement?
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Francis Crawford
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Originally Posted by heavyduty
Most people don't farm these spots to have fun.
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Fluffyx
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Originally Posted by Francis Crawford
It's a game. People play games to have fun.
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studentochaos
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Originally Posted by heavyduty
Most people don't farm these spots to have fun. Having fun is what guildmates are for.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by heavyduty
Blindly taking a more balanced team for this particular run only means everything is likely to take longer. It's hard enough already to find decent people that can play their role in the 5 man team, Who in their right mind would take a chance on an ele, mesmer or ranger? Ele's have bad energy management for extended damage output compared to an SS for the gear trick, the Rangers use of stances essentially nulls the bonders essense and Mesmers are primarily single target oriented characters.
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If you don't want a ranger because they stance then you don't want a good player at all. You realize when the 5 man calls for a stance tank they mean it. If the enemy hits are missing it means that is damage that doesn't have to be healed.
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Originally Posted by heavyduty
All of you naysayers that hate the 'cookie cutter' crap are fooling yourselves if you think a popular and proven effective build is somehow inferior. How about posting in-depth proof on a better tactic? My main gripe is monks that don't use life attunement on the tank. On a subpar group this means failure.
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Manic Smile
Damnit cookie stay in the mold...
Sekkira
raaarghbwwbwwrhiofh
Manic Smile
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Originally Posted by Nater
Are you kidding? Life Attunement?
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Life Barrier/Life Bond/Life Attunement/Essence
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Originally Posted by Haggard
Glyph of Energy > OoB for MMing.
Oh and, only take fiends, as horrors deal tiny damage and can sometimes stop the tank from being able to tank. |
agh *beat head on wall*
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Originally Posted by Carinae Dragonblood
In-depth proof? This Guru you know. Here's what happens when you do that:
You get laughed at, ridiculed, told that math & reason means nothing, told you're pathetic, stupid, brainless, skill-less, told that NO build is better than ANY other build, outright challenged for no apparent reason, and the best one: "Nu-uh!" |
lol...*tear*...just gotta smile...it helps I promise...and until that guy invents the thingy that lets you stab people through the internet...well it's all you got...and I'm sure the government would begin to crack down on that soon anway...or MS would steal it and make all the money off it forcing you to pay to stab that guy in the eye with a fork
Rathcail
Yay, my MM doesn't meet the OP's standards.
Good thing I can grab four henchies and do it on my own without gimping some elite parties.
Good thing I can grab four henchies and do it on my own without gimping some elite parties.
Tarkin
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Originally Posted by Fluffyx
What hes saying is that people come to sorrows to make money, not to play around. Which is pretty true since you dont see many quest groups forming these days.
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Bob of Maple Ave
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Originally Posted by studentochaos
Loner enemies, strange grouping, and shifting enemy positions (as well as user error by people who don't know how to place it well) all make SS worse then A. a fire ele or B. Barrage Ranger.
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penguo
Well when I read not to bring attack skills that's just dumb, you've gotta pull some weight in the beginnning because you are not targeted, i myself take cyclone axe, excecutioners strike, glads defence, defensive stance, disciplined stance, healing signet(dont use in battle), and rez signet. I never die.
Bob of Maple Ave
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Originally Posted by heavyduty
Who in their right mind would take a chance on an ele, mesmer or ranger?
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by heavyduty
All of you naysayers that hate the 'cookie cutter' crap are fooling yourselves if you think a popular and proven effective build is somehow inferior. How about posting in-depth proof on a better tactic?
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This is coming from a frustrated elementalist player, who is now workng on a necro. And I don't farm because it's fun.
studentochaos
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Originally Posted by Bob of Maple Ave
apparently nobody...it's next to impossible to get onto a group as an ele up there, much less a 5 man group, for reasons that I've seen are obvious. The only way I can outdo an SS necro is if I use glyph of sacrifice to double MS...but there's a 60 second recharge time, echo can be removed before I'm finished casting the first MS, MS can be interrupted (it takes 5 seconds to cast), etc, etc, etc
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Originally Posted by Bob of Maple Ave
I posted this challenge awhile ago, no takers. This post is right-on...so many people speak of alternate configurations and mention millions of possibilities, nobody can come up with a 5 man (or less) group that can clear out SF as quickly and efficiently.
This is coming from a frustrated elementalist player, who is now workng on a necro. And I don't farm because it's fun. |
Bob of Maple Ave
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Originally Posted by Tictac
I use my Ele for SF, UW, Tombs, and FoW runs. My guild does a lot of balanced teams in these areas and a good nuker is a must. Ele's are in no way useless. They are fun to play with and can rip off some serious damage to whole groups a lot quicker than an SS could get the whole group cursed. Never doubt the power of a good ele. See this thread for my advanced Nuker build.
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I posted this thread a short while ago: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...d.php?t=135323
and posted a few comments in this one:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...d.php?t=135323
I've come to realize that ele's do have some places (for instance, I use echo/arcane echo, MS, Glyph of Sacrifice, (echo/arcane echo MS) on dual monks in FoW, and I usually kill them a lot quicker than any SS could (it invokes a 60 second recharge on echo, which makes it sync up with MS). But the real problem comes against armored opponents...SS, of course, ignores armor.
Bob of Maple Ave
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Originally Posted by studentochaos
Arcane echo is what every ss uses.
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studentochaos
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Originally Posted by Bob of Maple Ave
Just FYI, I was talking about myself (as an ele), trying to outdamage an SS necro. It can happen, but it's very inefficient in comparison.
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Haggard
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Originally Posted by Nater
Glyph of Lesser Energy + OoB is even better.
I've tried them all. |
Y.T.
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Originally Posted by Francis Crawford
It's a game. People play games to have fun.
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theres another reason to do oro repeatedly - if u need skillpoints badly and we dont have favor again u can get few scrolls and get some exp from mobs plus exr reward for both oro quests. then u can get skill u wanted and have fun using it
simple as that