My worst fears confirmed (as were my hopes)...
Morgwath
if it makes you feel better I have heard and used that phrase all my life.
96TSi
maybe its a southern US thing?
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fiery
I love a higher power teasing a peasant , makes me happy.
, makes me happy.
Cherno
Just because a build may not be usable in an area does not mean that the build has been nerfed. 
fgarvin
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Originally Posted by Hockster
If it bothers you so much just quit. Quit playing, quit whining, just quit.
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If I need 10k for something, I farm.
If I'm bored and want something to do, I farm.
If it's 6am and my Guild's sleeping, I farm.
Guess what, none of that is affecting you.
I am a casual farmer. “Bots” as they’ve been called are a completely different matter and should be dealt with in a way that does not affect me or the tens of thousands like me.
Moa Bird Cultist
This is besides the point of the arguement here, but I thought I should point it out anyway: Guild Wars, as you say, is a team game. Now I may be wrong, but >1 person = a team, therefore duo UW runs are still effectively playing as a team. Oh and by the way...
Dont be so quick to attribute every problem in the economy to 55 monks
All the other casters out there can 55 and some classes, ie the ele, ranger and the warrior dont need 55 to farm and commonly dont use it. Since this seems to have turned into yet another 55hp monk debate, I'll ask you why has no-one here flamed on ettin farmers? We all know that's far more profitable in the long run than the few places a standard 55 monk can still solo effectively. If you ask me though, it isnt protective spirit that needs the nerfbat, it's that the ai needs updating again. They got it right with the AoE patch, but what they also need to do is add ai to help the monsters aoid self inflicted damage ala SS and gladiators defence. That is far more of an imbalance between pve and pvp than protective spirit. If you dont believe me, theres a link to a video of eAsY running Mendway in a GvG, proving that 55 is possible in PvP as well. It's also very, very funny that they pulled it off
Dont be so quick to attribute every problem in the economy to 55 monks
All the other casters out there can 55 and some classes, ie the ele, ranger and the warrior dont need 55 to farm and commonly dont use it. Since this seems to have turned into yet another 55hp monk debate, I'll ask you why has no-one here flamed on ettin farmers? We all know that's far more profitable in the long run than the few places a standard 55 monk can still solo effectively. If you ask me though, it isnt protective spirit that needs the nerfbat, it's that the ai needs updating again. They got it right with the AoE patch, but what they also need to do is add ai to help the monsters aoid self inflicted damage ala SS and gladiators defence. That is far more of an imbalance between pve and pvp than protective spirit. If you dont believe me, theres a link to a video of eAsY running Mendway in a GvG, proving that 55 is possible in PvP as well. It's also very, very funny that they pulled it off
dont feel no pain
bout time they removed the 55 monk, too easy and repetative.
Sir Skullcrasher
no more 55 monk, well, i'm sure someone will come up with new farming build when Chapter 2 is out.
Linsys
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Originally Posted by Saul D allesio
While I was playing FPE at 8:00 10+ gmt There was the person incharge of the skills her name was "Isha <and somthing else gose here...cant remember>"
I asked her a few questions one of them regarding 55hp monks and ss necros...I asked him weather he'll Stop 2 man UW farms and gave him a sugestion to take away the -50hp offhands to reduce the efectiveness of 55hp monks...He just replied "in factions there will be another super hard area like the under world that wont be easly beaten by two man builds..." I was happy to hear that but while he said that he also meant that he is not going to stop the UW being abused... So for all of you wondering wether the 55hp monk is going to be nerfed... This is the horrible truth. Feed back accepted =). |
THIS IS GREAT NEWS..... I LOVE TWO MAN AND ONE MAN farming... too bad your disapointed.... too bad for u!!!
Also get ready for 2-3 man farm build in Factions, it will happen I guarantee that.
fgarvin
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Originally Posted by dont feel no pain
bout time they removed the 55 monk, too easy and repetative.
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Who cares who does what with their characters; as long as it does not directly affect others, who gives a rat's @$$ ?
dustbunny
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Saul D allesio
I am against farming a such a high level area such as the UW and FoW...
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(2) If these areas didn't drop globs of ectoplasm or obsidian shards, would you still be opposed to people farming these places?
(3) Isaiah tells you: High difficulty areas coming that can't be easily farmed. You are getting what you want. What's the problem?
Cecil The Magician
There's nothing wrong with being good at making money.
I'm pretty poor as well, but you dont see me complaining. If your a 55 or SS, good for you.
It's a role-playing game, and one of the best things about them is making a name by either...
A: Being skilled in combat
B: Being rich
C: Being high leveled (with the exception of GW)
I'm glad they aren't nerfing either.
Now If you want to get money, you make your own SS or 55 or you find another build that works just as well.
I'm pretty poor as well, but you dont see me complaining. If your a 55 or SS, good for you.
It's a role-playing game, and one of the best things about them is making a name by either...
A: Being skilled in combat
B: Being rich
C: Being high leveled (with the exception of GW)
I'm glad they aren't nerfing either.
Now If you want to get money, you make your own SS or 55 or you find another build that works just as well.
ty3c
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Originally Posted by Witchblade
damn those who are against farming cauz they cant do it and find ideas themselves and start doing there "cut/paste" of popular builds
THAT is why runs are nerfed, cauz if poor whiners ... items requires money and i dont intend to get gold by selling the 3 white items given to me in a 1hour borring coop mission.. Coop game = no drop Hench play= nothing on ground either u want money, u find a damn way to get some !! is that so hard to get ?? plus, this is legal way, not a bot/cheat/ebay crap so, stop that stupid debate and if you are against farming, stay poor and go pvp (not the right thread either) |
Fantus
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Originally Posted by Saul D allesio
So for all of you wondering wether the 55hp monk is going to be nerfed...
This is the horrible truth. Feed back accepted =). |
Maybe just maybe we won't see all those whiners opening a "nerf 55" thread every 5 minutes anymore. *dreams*... what a wonderful world....
Manda Panda
Quote:
| The UW is supposed to be a high level area left to experianced players to have fun...Not an ecto farm ground |
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| I am against farming a such a high level area such as the UW and FoW |
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| Im not saying do a classic 8 man...Im saying atleast do a reasnoble amount of people...more than two |
G_Bones
I couldn't care less if people farm or not. What bothers me is, instead of addressing the farming situation in order to give stability to the economy, Anet continues to nerf drops for ALL players. So yes, the 55 monks screw EVERYONE in the end, as well as all other solo builds. The sad part is, if the drops hadn't been nerfed, you wouldn't have had nearly as many people get into farming. Now, farming is the ONLY legit way to make money.
I see this as a huge contrast to the way GW was originally advertised, as a MMORPG without the usual grind. Now, PvE is nothing but grind. If all you do is quest, you can't even afford a Superior Salvage kit. It's pathetic, really. I didn't get the game to have to spend 100's of hours farming alone in order to buy a sword or shield, because we all know that decent gold drops are 1 in a million. I honestly feel that Anet has begun the death of what WAS a great game before the second chapter began. Factions should open the door for normal play and earning for a short while, but then the nerfs will follow, and within 3 months the game will be back to the same boring farm-a-thon. That is, if there is much new PvE content at all, and not just endless Faction Wars.
I see this as a huge contrast to the way GW was originally advertised, as a MMORPG without the usual grind. Now, PvE is nothing but grind. If all you do is quest, you can't even afford a Superior Salvage kit. It's pathetic, really. I didn't get the game to have to spend 100's of hours farming alone in order to buy a sword or shield, because we all know that decent gold drops are 1 in a million. I honestly feel that Anet has begun the death of what WAS a great game before the second chapter began. Factions should open the door for normal play and earning for a short while, but then the nerfs will follow, and within 3 months the game will be back to the same boring farm-a-thon. That is, if there is much new PvE content at all, and not just endless Faction Wars.
Coolniceronguy
Saul, thank you for reminding me why I have an ignore list on these forums.
Saul D allesio
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Originally Posted by dustbunny
(1) Who's opinion counts about what is a high level area that shouldn't be farmed? You realize a lot of the monsters that people are farming are level 24, same as a those at a bunch of other places?
(2) If these areas didn't drop globs of ectoplasm or obsidian shards, would you still be opposed to people farming these places? (3) Isaiah tells you: High difficulty areas coming that can't be easily farmed. You are getting what you want. What's the problem? |
(2) I only do the UW and FoW for fun...and others might disagree
(3) Yes I am...But the threads about ss/fow...oh well...The 55hp monks will perish once the new areas come out. Who'd want to farm "ye ol' UW" when you can get a harder challeng and probly more expensive items. and the new areas in Ch. 2 will not realy be farmable by 55hp monks and SS necros...So that means that ecto prices will go down...(aka. no more 55hp monks =0)
Karmaniac
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Originally Posted by Saul D allesio
Dam all you farmers! (well atlest 55hp/SS ones...)
I know you think that im like "[email protected]!!111 LOOKIE LOOKIE NERF NERF NERF NERF," just for attention... but thats not the case...Im against all the ways to abuse the game a little but im DEFENATLY agains the 55hp monks and SS necros...The UW is supposed to be a high level area left to experianced players to have fun...Not an ecto farm ground |
In the meantime please refrain from making such statements in the future. Farming is man's own thing and his own thing alone.
Hockster
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Originally Posted by 96TSi
it was my way of laughing at you because your entire post was whining about it all and at the end you told him to stop whining.
i must be getting old if people dont know what "pot calling the kettle black" means lol |
Fyre Brand
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Originally Posted by Saul D allesio
Ps. OFF TOPIC: Isasiah is genraly a girls name lol (I know im not a very good speller)
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Saul D allesio
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Originally Posted by Karmaniac
And I don't particularly like when people come and voice their moral opinions and personal beliefs as god given facts. Newsflash: in philosophy there's a term called "logical missconception" which states that one cannot deduct how things should be from how they are. I'd suggest you to think about that.
In the meantime please refrain from making such statements in the future. Farming is man's own thing and his own thing alone. |
Oh... and the guy who said "how is My post whining"...think about it.
NinjaKai
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Originally Posted by Karmaniac
And I don't particularly like when people come and voice their moral opinions and personal beliefs as god given facts. Newsflash: in philosophy there's a term called "logical missconception" which states that one cannot deduct how things should be from how they are. I'd suggest you to think about that.
In the meantime please refrain from making such statements in the future. Farming is man's own thing and his own thing alone. |
Karmaniac
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Originally Posted by NinjaKai
Might I suggest toning down the philosophy a bit. While I understand what you said, not everyone else will.
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To add actual informative content to this: I have heard that there are no drops at all in D&D online. So maybe Mr. Allesio and the likes will find their spiritual home there and feel no need to ostracize "i"-monks and such for no apparent reason.
Seems like this post came out even worse than the last one and I think I totally ignored every other opinion pointed out here but I'll post this anyways.
Loralai
I remember when ectos were available at the trader at arond 16k each, around the time when PUG's were basically the options in UW. Personally, I prefer 7-8k each as opposed to 16k. Nerf the 55 and the SS and watch ecto prices go through the roof.
What needs to be fixed is group drop ratio...nothing more.
What needs to be fixed is group drop ratio...nothing more.
Commander Ryker
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Originally Posted by Saul D allesio
Ps. OFF TOPIC: Isasiah is genraly a girls name lol (I know im not a very good speller)
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Saul D allesio
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Karmaniac
Very well, it might have come out more forceful than originally intended but let's face it: the invincible are often not very invincible at all. It can be degened, sufficient amounts of blunt trauma kill it and apparently non spell, non melee damage goes straight through too. But still it's an ingenious build and to penalize players for creating such builds would be a severe backlash for innovation in general. So I don't quite like people indiscriminately setting up obvious flamebaits to promote mass hysteria. There's no good or evil in farming anyways.
To add actual informative content to this: I have heard that there are no drops at all in D&D online. So maybe Mr. Allesio and the likes will find their spiritual home there and feel no need to ostracize "i"-monks and such for no apparent reason. Seems like this post came out even worse than the last one and I think I totally ignored every other opinion pointed out here but I'll post this anyways. |
Saul D allesio
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Originally Posted by Commander Ryker
In my 50+ years of life, Isasiah has never, ever been a female name.
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I probally pronounced it wrong; ...is it " 'I' (as in the letter I) - sas - ee - ah"
Rayea
sure your not getting it mixed up with names like sasha and sian ect?
hm....as to farming, i say, so long as your a ral person onthe end, are not selling/giving your gold/drops ect to an overlord that sells it to an e-buy site.....why worry.
its a human thing to want something you cant afford, and also a human thing to find a way to GET the cash for the thing you want.....and befor cash was around, you traded for the stuff you wanted, and befor trading...well, you just smashed in the other guys head and TOOK what it was he had you wanted.....
the way i see it, yes, the 55hp thing seems like an explouit, or maybe a better way of saying it would be..a creative but unexpected use and build...
personally, i wouldnt want to only have 55 or 105 health, i would die in like 1-2 hits....and thats not my idea of fun.
as to the folks that dont like farming....is it the run in-kill critter-run back..rinse, repeat part that you dont agree with, the fact that someone else is getting items/gold and your not or that rather than going onto PvP or playing missions ect in PvE, they just kill the same things in an area all day?
i think that, if the GW staff intoroduced *real* farming...that is, collecting materials form the natural world, harvesting natural resouces ect....a lot of players that currently MobFarm would move to NatureFarm....
i mean, im sure that it would be harder to probgram a macro or whatever to make a character nip out, use a salvage or harvest skill and then wander about picking flowers or rocks or plants up , while all the time, having to be carefull of monsters that would try to eat you....
hm....as to farming, i say, so long as your a ral person onthe end, are not selling/giving your gold/drops ect to an overlord that sells it to an e-buy site.....why worry.
its a human thing to want something you cant afford, and also a human thing to find a way to GET the cash for the thing you want.....and befor cash was around, you traded for the stuff you wanted, and befor trading...well, you just smashed in the other guys head and TOOK what it was he had you wanted.....
the way i see it, yes, the 55hp thing seems like an explouit, or maybe a better way of saying it would be..a creative but unexpected use and build...
personally, i wouldnt want to only have 55 or 105 health, i would die in like 1-2 hits....and thats not my idea of fun.
as to the folks that dont like farming....is it the run in-kill critter-run back..rinse, repeat part that you dont agree with, the fact that someone else is getting items/gold and your not or that rather than going onto PvP or playing missions ect in PvE, they just kill the same things in an area all day?
i think that, if the GW staff intoroduced *real* farming...that is, collecting materials form the natural world, harvesting natural resouces ect....a lot of players that currently MobFarm would move to NatureFarm....
i mean, im sure that it would be harder to probgram a macro or whatever to make a character nip out, use a salvage or harvest skill and then wander about picking flowers or rocks or plants up , while all the time, having to be carefull of monsters that would try to eat you....
heavy metal rules
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Originally Posted by GUE Tech
...yawn.
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as far as you put it "abusing the system" so what, I could careless, there is nothing wrong with what they are doing, i farmed ettins solo and made a nice pretty penny, since i've completed the game and i wanted some money for ch. 2. just get over your sniveling, maybe you should try it. not my problem if you are hurting for money, you loss.
pigdestroyer
in 2 months the ectos are going to be as valuable as a bolt of cloth... no need to worry about UW farmers...
Farmermancer
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Originally Posted by pigdestroyer
in 2 months the ectos are going to be as valuable as a bolt of cloth... no need to worry about UW farmers...
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1) People who buy Factions then buy Prophecies wont be able to give their assasins and ritualists a fair Obsidian Jewelled "FoW" equal armour in Tyria.
2) People who dont "merge" accounts wont want the rarest useful crafting material in Tyria.
3) People who are just getting into Guild Wars wont want the most expensive armour in the game.
4) No one will milk the new fads to "unwanted levels" in the expansion and will continue farming down the price of ectos and shards.
5) If Rubies and Sapphires are used for new subsitute "cream of the crop" armour, only wealthy Tyrians will be able to afford it with the drop rates now, I mean its only fair that people who buy only factions will need to grind for a year to get 3 R & S while a Tyrian can get 105 of each in a month right ?
6) No one wants to look different or show off in this game, who cares if Sentinal's can be afforded by every wammo in the game. Let's face it regular Sentinals = New pig mail.
The 2 things the preview showed is that the materials economy linked, to prevent differentials and that PvP is the a required material for "pristine" 15K armour. Heven forbide ANet make you actually fight something smarter then a Bladed Aatex over and over again.
Heck, Ill save you some time and buy all your worthless Ecto's for 10g above the bolt of cloth trader price in 2 months.
Joh
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Originally Posted by Tainek
Prot spirit: Target ally Cannot lose more than 10% health from any single attack or spell. Prot spirit ends if allys maximum health is below 150
Wouldnt affect anyone but the 55hp farmers [...] |
Commander Ryker
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Originally Posted by Saul D allesio
Your a old man =)
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TheMosesPHD
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Originally Posted by dont feel no pain
bout time they removed the 55 monk, too easy and repetative.
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And btw 55hp has plenty of limitations on what it can take on. You've got to be wary of mesmers, and most high level necromancers are just plain out of the question for a 55. If they have any hint of lifestealing on them you're doomed because life stealing goes straight through prot spirit.
Everything about Factions pwns 55ers. It's full of degen and easy enchantment removal. But prophecies is a total farmers paradise, and I don't see why that should change. It's like an in-game job. Perform repeatitive processes that earn your daily wages, then you can bump on over to Factions and rip other players apart. It's a nice system.
Sientir
As TheMosesPHD was saying, it looks like a lot of the mobs in Factions are of a mixed variety, making limited numbers of party members more challenging to prevail with. This was something that was absent in Prophecies, and that makes farming easy there. It will be a great deal harder in Factions I think.
On to the original topic, or more or less a rage against 55/SSers....I'd agree EXCEPT that this game is instanced. You don't have to play with them if you don't you want. As has also been stated, the 55 build is very limited in what it can handle. Any sort of higher level spellcaster can destroy it very quickly. This is because the 55 build was made for one purpose: to be inpervious to direct damage. However, as any who are familiar with a blood spike know, prot spirit is useless vs. a life steal or heavy degen.
As I see it, the only problem with the 55er builds is simply that the bots run it. It's a simple and easy build, if you get down to it. That makes it ideal for bots. Several issues then arise. One is the price of monk runes (except for vigor and absorption, Superior monk runes are the most expensive, unless something dramatically has changed). Another is obviously what bots do.
Pulling myself back to what was originally being said: it may or may not be an abuse of the Underworld, depending upon your point of view. Either way, it is a place that people farm. It is a pretty easy place to farm, which is why. If you don't like it, then don't participate. That's the beauty of this game, when you enter the field, you don't have to share it with everyone else who wants to be there.
On to the original topic, or more or less a rage against 55/SSers....I'd agree EXCEPT that this game is instanced. You don't have to play with them if you don't you want. As has also been stated, the 55 build is very limited in what it can handle. Any sort of higher level spellcaster can destroy it very quickly. This is because the 55 build was made for one purpose: to be inpervious to direct damage. However, as any who are familiar with a blood spike know, prot spirit is useless vs. a life steal or heavy degen.
As I see it, the only problem with the 55er builds is simply that the bots run it. It's a simple and easy build, if you get down to it. That makes it ideal for bots. Several issues then arise. One is the price of monk runes (except for vigor and absorption, Superior monk runes are the most expensive, unless something dramatically has changed). Another is obviously what bots do.
Pulling myself back to what was originally being said: it may or may not be an abuse of the Underworld, depending upon your point of view. Either way, it is a place that people farm. It is a pretty easy place to farm, which is why. If you don't like it, then don't participate. That's the beauty of this game, when you enter the field, you don't have to share it with everyone else who wants to be there.
jackie
To everyone saying that Ectos & Shards prices will drop to rock-bottom - there is (or at least suppose to be) a base price to all materials in trader. FoW armour was made to be a Gold Sink and something that is cool & hard to get - the ultimate armor so to speak.
I don't think that FoW armour can be bought silly cheap in future with ectos that cost 3k.
I don't think that FoW armour can be bought silly cheap in future with ectos that cost 3k.
Lady Lozza
jackie, the base price for ectos and shards is 100g, it is the same for all rare materials. We've had the opportunity on two occassions to observe this. So yes if people stop wanting FoW but still farm UW then shards and ectos could potentially drop to less than 1k.
Apocamentus
i don't get why people find it so bad that you can beat UW with two builds. If you're so pissed off by it, make a damn monk or necro (that's what I did). And if you're annoyed because 'that's not the way it's meant to be done', well whose to say there is a best way that its meant to be done. If Anet give us a dungeon liek this, the community will always try and find builds to make the most of it. If tehy nerf it, the community will find ways around it. So just either make a monk/necro or stop complaining.
Alias_X
I feel that there isn't anything wrong with the 55 monks. To become a 55, you need the offhand, which can run you about 3k, 5 runes, which is at the lowest 50k, then a good weapon with an enchanting mod. Once you do all this, you can no longer be a healing monk, so lets also keep in mind that you will need a second set of armor, 15k. All in all, about 68k to become a 55 monk. The UW was designed to be farmed. The whole Favor thing is only important because the place that has favor then gets to go farm. People that are 55 monks have played the game just like you, dished out tons of money, and want to farm it back, then start making a profit. What else would they do in the UW, go for a walk?
The UW isn't being abused. It is being used for what it was designed to be used for... farming and getting ecto. Why would there be only one place that drops ecto, and nothing really to do in that place other than kill stuff?
Cut the 55's some slack. If you are jealous of them, then put the hard work that they put into making one into making your own. DONT'T, however, make a character, get it run through the game, then buy all the crap and have your 55 in one day. That is cheap, and cheating the system.
...that is all.
The UW isn't being abused. It is being used for what it was designed to be used for... farming and getting ecto. Why would there be only one place that drops ecto, and nothing really to do in that place other than kill stuff?
Cut the 55's some slack. If you are jealous of them, then put the hard work that they put into making one into making your own. DONT'T, however, make a character, get it run through the game, then buy all the crap and have your 55 in one day. That is cheap, and cheating the system.
...that is all.