New sigil system; Will it help?

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With teams soon being able to gain 3 sigils in the HoH instead of one, will this collapse the lecrative market for them? Or will it really not make any change?

Personally, I think at the very least it will drop the insane prices people are charging for them. What do you think?

Yummy... I might actually try my hand in the HoH now.

It's about time. First it was 4,000. A few days later 20,000. Next 45,000. THen 75,000.
Now people are selling them for over 100,000. Which is kinda funny since the max you can hold is "only" 100k

This is a good thing, but unfortunately, I fear it isn't going to be enough. If there truly are hoarding of sigils, it will only make things worse.

Supposedly there are rumors of the top ranking guilds hoarding them, selling them off to desperate smaller guilds or groups, however if this is true, it will not truly change anything. It merely gives them more supply to use against the ones unable to get sigils themselves so easily.

However, I do have hope that this will help combat the huge inflation of prices and begin to level this out. Let us hope in time we will see the changes...for the better...not the worse.

[QUOTE=Adaria]This is a good thing, but unfortunately, I fear it isn't going to be enough. If there truly are hoarding of sigils, it will only make things worse.
QUOTE]

anet will be tracking the number of sigils out there against the number of guilds and if the number of guilds remains low i would not put it beyond them to simply put sigils into the economy at reduced prices to induce the hoarders (if any) to kick them loose

i would love to see a big guild that possibly bought a bunch at 50 plat plus to find them going for only 25 plat and dropping

it will help much and get the smaller guilds to try the HoH for once knowing they have one hell of a chance at getting one.

Two questions. How and why?

One guy on ebay has sold 10 sigills in the last 4 days, and has 4 more ending in the next 2 days. And again, that's just one guy of the many. That's why.

I think sigils should be something you earn and cannot sell.

If the E-Bay story is true, then A-net should act quickly.

We certainly don't want another D2 atmosphere and economy like banning a botter's account after they muled off tons of items only to sell to morons on E-Bay to continue the whole vicious cycle.

I also agree that they should not be able to be sold....period.

Just my 2cents

Just look up Guild Wars Celestial Sigil on ebay and you have about ten items come up or more. Look up Guild Wars alone and you get hundreds of items, gold, runes, accounts, etc.

All of them have some sort of disclaimer such as "you are not buying the item itself you are paying for the time it took to get the item, blah blah blah" just to save their skins from infringing on some sort of law or something.

The Ebay thing began even before the release I think... how sad...

Why would top-ranked guilds horde sigils? They already have more gold than they know what to do with, and they take up valuable inventory space that can be filled with actually good items. I've been moving sigils as fast as I can for valuable items, and I have to imagine that the other top guilds are doing the same. Without guild storage and a pitiful amount of account storage, it just doesn't make sense.

Peace,
-CxE

How would the three-sigil change affect this?

Smaller guilds have the same chance of getting past elite guilds in the HoH as they did before -- that is, extremely slim to none. The fact that the reward for winning will be tripling does not alter the difficulty of winning in the first place.

The "adjustments to the trader" mentioned, on the other hand, may have potential.

Got to agree with that. Why are these things so sought after? Each guild needs one and only one ever. Where is the demand for these going to be two weeks from now, or three? I don't get it. If you could spend them on upgrades or something, then sure... but you only need one... right? And only the guild leader needs one... or am I just missing something?

Excepting those who are selling them on eBay, I don't believe that people truly are Hording them. But just think about how many guilds are out there who "desperately" need a guild hall, if only so that they can roleplay with the other three people in their guild.

A.Nets only real mistake here was in assuming that halls would be mainly for GvG combat, when in reality everyone and their pet donkey just wants one because they're "cool." I'm not surprised that there is such a huge demand for Sigils.

yes the trader thing is going to be nice.
After my exams are completed, My guild is going to try and reach the HoH and were going to battle for a sigil first. If that wont be doable because of the stories i heard, we might decide to buy one

Ok, I'll take the bait on this one, if that is true WHERE are all the Sigils?

The traders surely don't have them.

I have not heard of anyone just stumbling accross one that was just dropped and left behind on the ground.

If they are not being horded then where are they?

If they weren't being stashed away you'd think there might be some floating around in the game maybe with a trader but we've already established that the traders have none.

I can understand your personal economy for the Sigils and trading for runes and whatnot but what about the guys on Ebay that have 4 or 5 to sell and the bidding starts @ $30 real money. On that note though how many are you holding on to?

How could you sell for more then 100k?

stand next to storage account, and pay in two?

To me it sounds like this:
"In order to make sure that rich people don't have a huge advantage over poor people, we are going to give the rich people 3 times the income they had before, thereby making their money less vaulable."

this is not going to help at all

all it is going to do is make the rich get richer and the poor stay poor (and Sigil-less)

you'd think that the devs were running a political machine or something with that kind of "solution" to a problem

best thing to do is make all NPC's stock sigils, at all times, at a fair and reasonable price. that way, everyone is happy. why don't they just do that?

That would mean people who pvp dont get a super uber reward *AHH* and that us Pve players would have a chance at having guild meetings.

What's wrong with just winning the Hall of Heroes?

It's not that hard...just get a good group (preferably guild teammates and voice comms), figure out a general strategy/stratigies, and I think sooner or later you'll see 3 Sigils in your possession.

Chad did you not read what i wrote? What if i dont like pvp that much? Then what?

Not that HARD? You're a funny guy.

Building up enough experience in PvP to even be a _challenge_ to anyone who plays it regularly takes time, practice and a dedicated group. That's not to win -- that's simply to survive more than a minute or so. If you actually make it to the Hall, you might be lucky enough to face one of the many elite PvP groups who will turn you into garden mulch in short order, in all probability.

Well, you'll want another sigil for your smurf guild, and you need another sigil if you want to change halls...but otherwise, whatever. They're pretty one shot.

They're so sought after because they're rare, and that's really all there is to it. Sigils drop at a fairly fixed rate of one per twelve minutes - the duration of a Hall of Heroes match. It's actually a bit lower than that, given that sometimes an opposing team doesn't join wasting 10 minutes, or the wait time is a bit greater, or a henchie gets a drop. Whatever. For our purposes the drop rate is 5 per hour. The game has been out approximately four weeks now, giving us 28 days worth of drops, which gives us roughly 3,360 sigils in the Guild Wars universe. A bit lower, really, but the point is the same.

Now, how many guilds are there? Whether they want to GvG or not, how many of those want a guild hall? All of them you say? Exactly. I couldn't give you exact numbers, but I wouldn't be surprised if there were tens of thousands of guilds in the game right now, ranging from the large, organized operations to small groups of friends, to single characters who just want their own cape and island home. The supply simply cannot meet the demand for halls, in other words, and the price flies up because of it. Now, couple that with the fact that you have entire guilds bidding for sigils, not just individuals, and you have the market that you see today.

The fundamental problem is that unlike all other items, the supply of sigils is not proportional to the number of players in the game. 100,000 players generate 100,000 players worth of PvE loot - 1,000,000 players generate 1,000,000 players worth of PvE loot, so that's all in proportion and thus is self correcting. Sigils, on the other hand, have that steady supply of around a hundred per day that is inflexible with the number of players in the game. Which is why the sigil market was flat during the BWEs, but is booming now - the supply has not changed while demand has.


Agree completely - I'd say that everyone who actually 'needs' a guild hall for its basic function, initiating GvG combat, got one a while ago. It's the PvE guilds, the casual guilds, the solo players stroking their egos who are driving the sigil market now. I wouldn't call this their mistake, though - I'm sure they know that people want guild halls just to hang out in. I'd lay the mistake entirely on making the supply of sigils so inflexible.


Being used to buy guild halls. There are simply not enough sigils out there to meet the demand, and even though they're hitting the market nearly as fast as they're found there are still people looking to buy.


Which is of course a perfect example of sigils being won and promptly hitting the market. They aren't being hoarded, they're being sold one way or another. Certainly, the number of players actually acquiring sigils and selling them is a small fraction of the game population, but that is largely irrelevant as long as they find their way into use somewhere.


Zero. I've been selling sigils faster than I can get them - they never sit in my stash longer than 24 hours. My guildies are the same way - they hit the town after a long Hall hold and cash out those sigils for weapon upgrades, superior runes, or just more gold for 15k armor and second characters. Or, in general, the kinds of things that those PvE guilds should be pharming in abundance. While there are plenty of people bitching about the price, I've encountered plenty of people who were happy to trade in some superiors, unidentified rare armors, and piles of gold for a sigil.


Go and buy one. The popular currency is unidentified rare armors - PvP players need them to unlock superior runes on PvP characters and will trade generously for them. Hell, the PvP types who buy the armors will likely even sell any superior rune you might have gotten back to you.

Peace,
-CxE

Yeah, but that's a scam waiting to happen.

"Selling for 115K, give me 15K for nothing and then 100K after I move it to storage...." -- trade 15K to another char, log.. Out 15P

To me it seems fairly obvious why sigils would be hoarded rather than sold :

1) Since the prices of sigils are currently assumed to be based on demand being higher than supply .. well what if say 20% of all sigils dropped were held rather than traded / sold ? There's less sigils changing hands / less guilds getting halls / seemingly less supply than there is in actuality ... which can easily translate to a reason on behalf of those holding sigils to drive up the market price, correct ?

2 ) Want to keep your guild ( or guilds depending on how many sub-guilds you create for the purpose of gvg competition ) at the top of the ladder ? The fewer guilds that you have to compete against helps to secure that position for a longer period, fairly simply put. And a great way of keeping those numbers low is by spending your non-gvg time holding the HoH for hours on end, getting more sigils

I hope it lowers the prices alittle

I think it would be better if whoever wins the sigil drop already has a guild hall the sigil is moved to a sigil merchant, the person who won the drop doesn't truly need it and it can be replaced by some rare item or something to compensate them for their 'loss'.

One time I tried to obtain a celestial sigil for one whole week. Every time I went to PvP-which I hate to-I kept dying with my team! I got so angry I stopped trying. Also there are never any celestial sigils at the trader. I personally think that no matter what A-net will do, it wont help! The only thing I could think of is to always have celestial sigils at all traders at all times for constant unchanging resonable prices! by the way nice post hintshigen !

I'd agree that sigils should not be sold to other players, only sigil npc traders.

The fact that there's little going around, and players have been selling them, makes the sigil npc traders almost useless.

Hopefully the new changes will improve this situation.

I definitely agree with you Levian. I hope that our 'protesting' will help edit A-nets views. I wrote a message to A-net concerning the sigils. then they almost immediately made the update!

/bows down lol. I never knew you had that much power

It's my natural charm!

But seriously I've been trying to get a celestial sigil since, well I've always been trying to get a celestial sigil. I'm just another of the POOR small-guilds just trying to hang and have fun! It's really annoying !

personally, its a part of the game, that i just like to get behind me already, yes we want a cool place to hangout and run around saying stupid things and emotes lol, but 100k??? for get it, absurd, personally i enjoy the roleplay more than pvp, i have done about a dozen or more with very good players, yet we have always failed to win, so much for winning a sigil, i think maybe just get rid of the dam sigils and when you reach a certain point in the game just get one.

:::End Transmission:::

I agree! ie:if you ascend you get one, stuffy like that!

An interesting idea, I'm sure they could treat the Sigil the same way they treat the "belt pouch" 5 slot bag, you can only wear one and you can't trade it just sell it back to vendor.

Still that would only fix half the problem there would still have to be away for Guilds to aquire them regardless of what side of the PvP or PvE fence they are on.

they should make it so that if more than half your guild, with a minimum number of people in the guild, reach level 20, then the leader is awarded a sigil so that he can open a guild hall.

GW staff claimed that this games economy wasnt going to be like d2, but its going that wat with the sigils

either way, having more of them in the economy is a good thing, i know my guild once we start doing HoH stuff will just give away sigils we dont need

money is so easy to get, no reason to keep people from getting guild halls...thats stupid

Feels like this was just a gimmick to help pvp guilds avoid the grind they have been bitching about forever. Quite obviously, the same people are gonna keep on winning the HoH, but now they are gonna be making a lot more gold off of selling sigils, letting them buy the runes/items they need without having to grind for it.