I do not want any talk of whether or not the grind is good in this game. Absolutely no talk about whether it is necessary or whether it is comparatively too little or too much. This thread needs to be different and not just an unconstructive rehash of those earlier threads. No arguing about whether it's "farming" or whether it's "grinding".
This thread is devoted to those PvPers who would like the "unlock all skills" button in beta to be reimplemented. How do we collectively get our voice heard by the devs?
How can we as a community get our voice heard with the devs regarding grind?
AirOnG
RepinsMirg
This won't because what you ask is for a one sided view on the whole thing.
AirOnG
This is devoted to a certain and significant segment of the community who believe one thing and would like some way for their voice to be heard. The purpose of this thread is different from other threads. I do not want any debate in this thread that is not related to how to talk to the devs. This is for people who already hold a certain belief and are probably frustrated because of it and want some way to be heard.
Valin
I'm sure ArenaNet is well aware of the issue the PvP community has. Every forum for every fansite has several threads regarding this contraversial topic. The community manager, Gaile Gray, reads all of the forums and reports back to the dev team. I think thats the best you can hope for.
Mimu
But if you have a completely one sided view in this topic, the dev's may read it and believe that you are unopposed on this issue..which believe me, you are not.
Wesley Wyndam-Pryce
Unfortunately, since we don't pay a monthly fee, theres only so far we can go with our opinions on the game.
I agree with the grind issue, this was the main reason I bought the game and yet, if I want good pvp I'm going to need at least more than a handful of spells (obviously some better than others) and same for items. I know I know, it's been argued before. What erks me about it is, they advertise the damn game as skill over time played. I wasn't aware skill meant grinding gear, items and skills to stand a chance in the Hall of Heroes or Guild vs Guild.
I agree with the grind issue, this was the main reason I bought the game and yet, if I want good pvp I'm going to need at least more than a handful of spells (obviously some better than others) and same for items. I know I know, it's been argued before. What erks me about it is, they advertise the damn game as skill over time played. I wasn't aware skill meant grinding gear, items and skills to stand a chance in the Hall of Heroes or Guild vs Guild.
AirOnG
If devs read the forums, the devs know that there is a split on the topic and that it is not unanimous. However, I believe the devs are underestimating the extent and size of the group of pvpers with a mentality that dislikes grind and repetitive actions. I really would like to gauge how much of the guild wars community would like the UAS button reimplemented and how many would really like their voice to be heard.
Perishiko ReLLiK
I'm sorry, but being able to get all needed spells in a month, on a mmorpg... is NOT even close to a grind... this kind of topic is really bothering me, and it's quite stupid.
Only if you just started the game and don't know how to play/ANY idea of what to do... then yes, it might take a whole two months... Try playing a game with a grind, and maybe then you can complain... i mean seriously... this is so annoying hearing people like this...
Most skills can be captured with one character, and even if your skill is on the last mission (which mine was) it's still easy to get... i've got two completely full setted characters, which both had skills that i had to get from beyond perdition rock... so umm... What grind?
Not to mention if you have just one person from your guild, you can get past alot of things within just a week... my first character took me roughly two weeks to get to lvl 20 and past ascending... but the second time of ascention i noticed Everything was incredibly easy... and i zipped through all the little missions with henchies... I didnt even get Rushed... like some people can... you can get alot of needed skills in a simple 2-3 hours if you have a really good guild... so umm... wow, why complain...
*If you can remotely tell me how this is a grind, in an intellegent way, i would listen and may even change my answer... but ive gotten past the last mission twice since the game came out... and i'm more of a casual gamer...*
edit:: --- Oh yea, and just because of those that say anet doesnt listen... look at their page... next update coming, is More elite monsters in higher area's, making elites easier to get!! --- so well... if that's the sort of grind (Which is the only i could possibly see) that you're talkin about, it's been looked over already... And if you're talking about normal skills... then explore the map and look at the skill trainers... i think most if not all skills can be gotten from them (Besides the elites, which come on bosses only)
Only if you just started the game and don't know how to play/ANY idea of what to do... then yes, it might take a whole two months... Try playing a game with a grind, and maybe then you can complain... i mean seriously... this is so annoying hearing people like this...
Most skills can be captured with one character, and even if your skill is on the last mission (which mine was) it's still easy to get... i've got two completely full setted characters, which both had skills that i had to get from beyond perdition rock... so umm... What grind?
Not to mention if you have just one person from your guild, you can get past alot of things within just a week... my first character took me roughly two weeks to get to lvl 20 and past ascending... but the second time of ascention i noticed Everything was incredibly easy... and i zipped through all the little missions with henchies... I didnt even get Rushed... like some people can... you can get alot of needed skills in a simple 2-3 hours if you have a really good guild... so umm... wow, why complain...
*If you can remotely tell me how this is a grind, in an intellegent way, i would listen and may even change my answer... but ive gotten past the last mission twice since the game came out... and i'm more of a casual gamer...*
edit:: --- Oh yea, and just because of those that say anet doesnt listen... look at their page... next update coming, is More elite monsters in higher area's, making elites easier to get!! --- so well... if that's the sort of grind (Which is the only i could possibly see) that you're talkin about, it's been looked over already... And if you're talking about normal skills... then explore the map and look at the skill trainers... i think most if not all skills can be gotten from them (Besides the elites, which come on bosses only)
Lazarous
Quote:
| this kind of topic is really bothering me, and it's quite stupid. |
Quote:
|
I do not want any talk of whether or not the grind is good in this game. Absolutely no talk about whether it is necessary or whether it is comparatively too little or too much. This thread needs to be different and not just an unconstructive rehash of those earlier threads. No arguing about whether it's "farming" or whether it's "grinding". This thread is devoted to those PvPers who would like the "unlock all skills" button in beta to be reimplemented. How do we collectively get our voice heard by the devs? |
Shrug, if a.net's response to what they've seen on the forums so far is to add some more boss spawns for elite capturing and nothing else, my faith in them is pretty much gone.
Laz
AirOnG
Note that you just voted the cardinal rule of my thread, Perishiko ReLLiK. No discussion about whether or not there is "grind" in this game or whether it should be in. This thread is for those who want the UAS button reimplemented. Please be civil and adult about this and respect the confines of the discussion.
That said, I'll acquiesce a bit and answer your request.
To get runes for all classes for full experimentation in the game, you have to do extremely repetitive actions for very long periods of time after "beating" the game. They have also consistently nerfed the ability to farm to increase the time investment necessary (Riverside and now flesh golems).
Now, no more discussion about whether or not there is grind in this game or how you feel about it. This thread is not for that type of discussion. This is for those who have already made up their mind and want the UAS button reimplemented.
Lazarous, although a petition may seem futile, it might be one of the only options we have. With no official forums or way to contact the devs, that's the only thing I can think of that can actually show the size and extent of the people who feel a certain way. It seems the devs are underestimating the size and beliefs of the competitive community of Guild Wars.
That said, I'll acquiesce a bit and answer your request.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Perishiko ReLLiK
*If you can remotely tell me how this is a grind, in an intellegent way, i would listen and may even change my answer... but ive gotten past the last mission twice since the game came out... and i'm more of a casual gamer...*
|
Now, no more discussion about whether or not there is grind in this game or how you feel about it. This thread is not for that type of discussion. This is for those who have already made up their mind and want the UAS button reimplemented.
Lazarous, although a petition may seem futile, it might be one of the only options we have. With no official forums or way to contact the devs, that's the only thing I can think of that can actually show the size and extent of the people who feel a certain way. It seems the devs are underestimating the size and beliefs of the competitive community of Guild Wars.
AirOnG
I was musing about two different compromises to implement in a petition or as some form of suggestion.
The first compromise and the one I like most is unlocking an UAS button after "beating" the game or possibly beating the UW content.
The second compromise is allowing players to acquire skills, item mods, and runes through purely playing pvp in both the 4v4 and 8 party arenas.
I believe that the compromise of making it easier to know what the rune will identify into and the higher spawn rates of bosses with elites are not compromises at all since they do nothing to alleviate dozens of hours of repetitive actions.
The first compromise and the one I like most is unlocking an UAS button after "beating" the game or possibly beating the UW content.
The second compromise is allowing players to acquire skills, item mods, and runes through purely playing pvp in both the 4v4 and 8 party arenas.
I believe that the compromise of making it easier to know what the rune will identify into and the higher spawn rates of bosses with elites are not compromises at all since they do nothing to alleviate dozens of hours of repetitive actions.
relientK_fan
I don't care if you don't want this posted, but Perishiko is totally correct. This game doesn't need an unlock all skills button. I mean really, who bought this game JUST for PvP? Not me, that's for sure. The grind is non-existent compared to Runescape and Everquest. I play for fun, not to pwn in PvP with all my l33t skills I unlocked with one click. So what, you had to play for a month to get good? Cry me a river.
AirOnG
This thread is for those who want the UAS system implemented. Do not turn this thread into a PvPer vs PvEer holy war.
I do not want any talk of whether or not the grind is good in this game. Absolutely no talk about whether it is necessary or whether it is comparatively too little or too much. This thread needs to be different and not just an unconstructive rehash of those earlier threads. No arguing about whether it's "farming" or whether it's "grinding".
Please be adult and civil about this.
I do not want any talk of whether or not the grind is good in this game. Absolutely no talk about whether it is necessary or whether it is comparatively too little or too much. This thread needs to be different and not just an unconstructive rehash of those earlier threads. No arguing about whether it's "farming" or whether it's "grinding".
Please be adult and civil about this.
relientK_fan
Sounds one sided to me, doubt no one cares if you don't have a "general" sample, not a one sided sample.
Eet GnomeSmasher
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Perishiko ReLLiK
I'm sorry, but being able to get all needed spells in a month, on a mmorpg... is NOT even close to a grind... this kind of topic is really bothering me, and it's quite stupid.
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And no, I do not support the Unlock All Skills option, but I'm not going to be an ass and call everyone who wants it an idiot either.
AirOnG
This thread is supposed to be for those who all hold a similar view who want to be able to be heard by the devs. Of course, it's going to be one-sided in that sense. But then again, that makes a great many organizations such as the NRA or PETA "one-sided". It's a superfluous label in this case.
Aiwahead
Post on this subject #3432.
Pointless, tbh, these always get flamed whether we like it or not.
It will be repeated time and again: It was specifically said that the BWE ASU option was ONLY FOR BWEs.
Can we get a sticky about this, already? With a poll that is MODERATED to find out a real number? For the sake of quieting both sides.
On a more helpfull note: Air, you should probably make a post like this in sardelac, not riverside. Probably would get flamed less, also.
Pointless, tbh, these always get flamed whether we like it or not.
It will be repeated time and again: It was specifically said that the BWE ASU option was ONLY FOR BWEs.
Can we get a sticky about this, already? With a poll that is MODERATED to find out a real number? For the sake of quieting both sides.
On a more helpfull note: Air, you should probably make a post like this in sardelac, not riverside. Probably would get flamed less, also.
AirOnG
If an UAS button is imlemented in some form (i.e. after "beating" the game), I think that UAS pvp characters should only be able to play with other UAS pvp characters. This button shouldn't be tied to the entire account and should only apply to pvp characters within the account. UAS PvP charactes would not affect PvE charactes in any way. Templates should probably remain in their current form as a way to play with PvE characters.
Aiwahead, this thread is different from those threads. It is intended as a way to figure out how to speak to the devs. I considered posting in Sardelac, but I think this thread aptly fits the community more than the suggestions discussion forum.
I think if there ever was a poll, the wording would be very critical since there needs to be a compromise. It should be clear that UAS players would never have any affect or influence over PvE characters, even in arenas PvE characters can participate in. Although this could potentially divide the PvPer and PvEer communities, I believe that they are divided enough already by virtue of those labels and what I've seen in past discussions.
Aiwahead, this thread is different from those threads. It is intended as a way to figure out how to speak to the devs. I considered posting in Sardelac, but I think this thread aptly fits the community more than the suggestions discussion forum.
I think if there ever was a poll, the wording would be very critical since there needs to be a compromise. It should be clear that UAS players would never have any affect or influence over PvE characters, even in arenas PvE characters can participate in. Although this could potentially divide the PvPer and PvEer communities, I believe that they are divided enough already by virtue of those labels and what I've seen in past discussions.
SpeedMann
The unlock all skills button was there for beta testing. It was never going to make it into retail why can't you PVP only people get over that.
I know why you can't get over it because you have to play the PVE side of the game to get your super wonderfull skills, i know, i know.
I know why you can't get over it because you have to play the PVE side of the game to get your super wonderfull skills, i know, i know.
Corwin_Andros
Air,
IF they were to have a UAS botton and then segregate the PvP characters that used it from other characters, it would defeat the purpose of the thing entirely. Segregated players couldn't compete in HoH or GvG with everyone else in the game. What would be the point? That is what all the flaming boils down to. You cannot have that button available without either sperating GW into 2 seperate games or giving PvP characters that use such an option a totally unfair advantage over the ones that don't.
IF they were to have a UAS botton and then segregate the PvP characters that used it from other characters, it would defeat the purpose of the thing entirely. Segregated players couldn't compete in HoH or GvG with everyone else in the game. What would be the point? That is what all the flaming boils down to. You cannot have that button available without either sperating GW into 2 seperate games or giving PvP characters that use such an option a totally unfair advantage over the ones that don't.
eventhorizen
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Originally Posted by Lazarous
Yup, calling topics like this 'stupid' shows your intelligence so beautifully especially when the op said :
As to the actual point of this thread, aren't their online petitions that can be signed? Possibly start one up and have it advertised on all the sites. A mass email campaign would also get the message across fairly clearly. Shrug, if a.net's response to what they've seen on the forums so far is to add some more boss spawns for elite capturing and nothing else, my faith in them is pretty much gone. Laz |
Lazarous please stop responding to posts with the sole intention of insulting people, im pretty sure it goes against one or more of this forums rules.
Adding an unlock all skills button is going to unbalance the game for those people who PLAY THE ENTIRE GAME. Every single player who does not use a PvP only character in HoH GvG, etc. is going to be absolutly at a disadvantage when it comes to pvp.
This will split the game into two distinct parts, and regardless what you were 'promised' by a.net this clearly is not their intention.
I think we should have a poll regarding the number of people who consider the quality of a game, before their own ease of playing it, im guessing the number would be rather low..
Keep posting on the forums, and other forums, continue to make as much noise on the subject as possible, and im pretty sure someone will have to atleast look at a post eventually.
Guild Wars is not meant to be a game where the casual 30 minutes per day player can log on and expect to compete at the very highest level of PvP compitition, should this ever be the case I WILL leave the game. This game was never EVER advertised as a pvp only battle game, please stop asking the developers to turn it into such.
Adaria
This button had it's purpose in the beta for testing purposes to see that everything worked properly and if not would be fixed. An unlock all skills button, as Corwin said, would cause either a segregation to be forced due to the steep unfair advantage pure PvP characters would have over those PvP characters who start as PvE.
If everything for the PvP side of things is unlocked, would it not, theoretically, cause players to become bored, or frustrated with things, and thus perhaps quit the game?
If this is brought into play, what would be next? PvE players would then complain about the unfair advantage and demand something be done and thus it would become a never-ending war where balance is thrown out of the window and chaos reigns.
Never have I seen such... debate... in a game over something that is opinion and things that were merely for the testing of parts of the game.
EDIT: I'm pretty sure the devs know about the complaining being done for this, obviously they do as they are starting to slowly work new things in to help alleviate this... 'problem'... An online petition wouldn't do much more than add alot of spam to the busy devs and ANet I'm sure. Just because there is something signed, doesn't necessarily mean it must be done because people demand it.
I am thankful that Guild Wars is a free game, and so far has done exceptionally and amazingly well at keeping up with the bugs, exploits, suggestions and the like. An update a week is a big step, I don't believe you get this kind of service with other games this good. The devs and ANet obviously want to try and make us GW fans happy, but as I have been told by someone I care about very much:
"You can please some people all of the time and all people some of the time... You can't please them all, all of the time no matter how hard you try."
If everything for the PvP side of things is unlocked, would it not, theoretically, cause players to become bored, or frustrated with things, and thus perhaps quit the game?
If this is brought into play, what would be next? PvE players would then complain about the unfair advantage and demand something be done and thus it would become a never-ending war where balance is thrown out of the window and chaos reigns.
Never have I seen such... debate... in a game over something that is opinion and things that were merely for the testing of parts of the game.
EDIT: I'm pretty sure the devs know about the complaining being done for this, obviously they do as they are starting to slowly work new things in to help alleviate this... 'problem'... An online petition wouldn't do much more than add alot of spam to the busy devs and ANet I'm sure. Just because there is something signed, doesn't necessarily mean it must be done because people demand it.
I am thankful that Guild Wars is a free game, and so far has done exceptionally and amazingly well at keeping up with the bugs, exploits, suggestions and the like. An update a week is a big step, I don't believe you get this kind of service with other games this good. The devs and ANet obviously want to try and make us GW fans happy, but as I have been told by someone I care about very much:
"You can please some people all of the time and all people some of the time... You can't please them all, all of the time no matter how hard you try."
AirOnG
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Originally Posted by Corwin_Andros
IF they were to have a UAS botton and then segregate the PvP characters that used it from other characters, it would defeat the purpose of the thing entirely. Segregated players couldn't compete in HoH or GvG with everyone else in the game. What would be the point?
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Corwin_Andros
You cannot have that button available without either sperating GW into 2 seperate games or giving PvP characters that use such an option a totally unfair advantage over the ones that don't.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Adaria
If everything for the PvP side of things is unlocked, would it not, theoretically, cause players to become bored, or frustrated with things, and thus perhaps quit the game?
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Adaria
Never have I seen such... debate... in a game over something that is opinion and things that were merely for the testing of parts of the game.
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http://www.guildwars.net/gameinfo/default.html
Quote:
| If you like Player-versus-Player competition, Guild Wars was made for you. In addition to building up a character by undergoing missions and quests, you can choose to create a character specifically for head-to-head PvP competition or guild warfare. The game is designed to reward player skill and teamwork, not time spent playing, so you won't need to spend hundreds of hours leveling up your character to compete. |
Adaria
From the sounds of what it said, this means it does not take hours to level your character. You have templates you can use and once you learned the skill setup on them however you set them up, you could be as competitive as any other from-the-box PvP player.
Also, if this were to happen, wouldn't it also cause more servers to be needed to keep track of the PvP UAS players as well as all of the PvP/PvE players? We haven't any idea how many servers it takes now or how difficult it would actually be to impliment it.
Also, the advertisement can be interpreted many different ways as it was not perfectly clear on exactly what they meant by not needing hours to stay competitive. That may merely have been referring to level, or not, we do not know this for sure it is o nly speculation. I myself interpreted it different than you, but only Arena Net can say for sure what EXACTLY they meant by that.
EDIT: Ok, I know I pretty much just forgot the word 'leveling' in the quoted advertisement, it is late here [EST time], though I'd like to add, you DO NOT need hours to level up, they never said that getting 'elite' skills was not going to be without work if you were willing. Nothing says Elite skills are any better than the regular skills, you can counter them with regular skills as you can counter elites with regulars as well. It would destroy the balance of the game if elites were massively 'uber' and such.
And with that, I'm done for the night, this sucked my brain dry.
Also, if this were to happen, wouldn't it also cause more servers to be needed to keep track of the PvP UAS players as well as all of the PvP/PvE players? We haven't any idea how many servers it takes now or how difficult it would actually be to impliment it.
Also, the advertisement can be interpreted many different ways as it was not perfectly clear on exactly what they meant by not needing hours to stay competitive. That may merely have been referring to level, or not, we do not know this for sure it is o nly speculation. I myself interpreted it different than you, but only Arena Net can say for sure what EXACTLY they meant by that.
EDIT: Ok, I know I pretty much just forgot the word 'leveling' in the quoted advertisement, it is late here [EST time], though I'd like to add, you DO NOT need hours to level up, they never said that getting 'elite' skills was not going to be without work if you were willing. Nothing says Elite skills are any better than the regular skills, you can counter them with regular skills as you can counter elites with regulars as well. It would destroy the balance of the game if elites were massively 'uber' and such.
And with that, I'm done for the night, this sucked my brain dry.
AirOnG
Adaria, I'm sure you can see how those who don't even know there were runes in the game or how the skill unlocking system worked would be very misled by that statement based on previous MMORPG experience they may have had.
I think that the system requirements to keep track of both UAS players and non UAS players is a serious thing to consider and something I'd really like the devs to comment on. I don't think the actual tracker itself would require much more additional hardware and just more code. I don't even think the servers itself would have to be segregated (although I could be wrong) since it's all instances.
I think that the system requirements to keep track of both UAS players and non UAS players is a serious thing to consider and something I'd really like the devs to comment on. I don't think the actual tracker itself would require much more additional hardware and just more code. I don't even think the servers itself would have to be segregated (although I could be wrong) since it's all instances.
AirOnG
An idea that wouldn't split the community and isn't an UAS but might be good enough is allowing all runes, skills, and weapon mods to somehow be gained through purely playing PvP in either 4v4 or 8v8. One could also match PvPers with similarly skilled PvPers by introducing a kind of tier system with those who have similar numbers of unlocked abilities.
john little
IMO make it so you can have an 'unlock all skills' button if you win HoH or are at the top of the GvG ladder. You pretty much have to complete all the PvE game to get the elite skills atm, make it so that 'PvP-only' characters also have to prove they are worthy of them. I don't think it would be wise at all to make it *easy* for all PvP'ers to get all the skills, they get a huge advantages as it is with the premade builds (and the whole premade lvl 20 is either rare or unique in a MMO).
I see this as a natural progression of adding runes in to the winnings for HoH, you get the stuff via PvP-only methods but you have to be prepared to win them rather than being handed them on a plate.
I see this as a natural progression of adding runes in to the winnings for HoH, you get the stuff via PvP-only methods but you have to be prepared to win them rather than being handed them on a plate.
Aiwahead
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Guildwars.com
The game is designed to reward player skill and teamwork, not time spent playing, so you won't need to spend hundreds of hours leveling up your character to compete.
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QFE. Context, people. They said NOTHING. ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about Grind.
Read carefully.
I'll put it in PLAIN ENGLISH:
You wont NEED to spend the time.
Need is a very different thing from having the option to.
We have the option to. If you're so tired of the grind, play PVP chars only.
wgregory87
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Originally Posted by AirOnG
Note that you just voted the cardinal rule of my thread, Perishiko ReLLiK. No discussion about whether or not there is "grind" in this game or whether it should be in. This thread is for those who want the UAS button reimplemented. Please be civil and adult about this and respect the confines of the discussion.
That said, I'll acquiesce a bit and answer your request. To get runes for all classes for full experimentation in the game, you have to do extremely repetitive actions for very long periods of time after "beating" the game. They have also consistently nerfed the ability to farm to increase the time investment necessary (Riverside and now flesh golems). Now, no more discussion about whether or not there is grind in this game or how you feel about it. This thread is not for that type of discussion. This is for those who have already made up their mind and want the UAS button reimplemented. Lazarous, although a petition may seem futile, it might be one of the only options we have. With no official forums or way to contact the devs, that's the only thing I can think of that can actually show the size and extent of the people who feel a certain way. It seems the devs are underestimating the size and beliefs of the competitive community of Guild Wars. |
Lazarous
Ah, this thread is great for a laugh.
What happened to not arguing about the merits of the UAS button airong?
Laz
What happened to not arguing about the merits of the UAS button airong?
Laz
AirOnG
Aiwahead, it's very misleading and has many false implications. Technically it's true, but it's not what someone who just bought the game would know.
I suppose I give up too easily, Laz ^^
I suppose I give up too easily, Laz ^^
Corwin_Andros
I played in two BWE's and never for a moment misconstrued anything said by Anet as meaning that if I went straight for PvP I'd have the entire array of things in the game handed to me on a silver platter.
I read exactly what it said and interpreted it as I could jump right in and compete with a max level character or going about it the hard way I wouldn't take 100's of hour to reach the level cap.
No one I know personally or have spoken with saw anything different either. They didn't promise no grind.. They said you would compete without putting 100's of hours into leveling your characters.
Anyone who thought that they were implying otherwise believed so because that is what they WANTED to believe...plain and simple. You can compete in very short order at the highest character level within 5-10 minutes of breaking the seal on the cd case. All of those runes, elites, and upgrades are not required to compete. They are designed to give players that put some effort into experiencing all aspects of the game a reward for doing so.
Anything they do to make things the way you and those like you want would either completely segregate or imbalance the game. While I can't say with absolute certainty, I'd be willing to bet you that ANet will do what they can to make things better, but they will NEVER kill their creation by making it so unblalanced and will not seperate it into two games in the same box. Maybe you can sweet talk them into a purely PvP Arena Edition that has absolutely nothing to do with the rest of their universe other than the classes and combat system.
I read exactly what it said and interpreted it as I could jump right in and compete with a max level character or going about it the hard way I wouldn't take 100's of hour to reach the level cap.
No one I know personally or have spoken with saw anything different either. They didn't promise no grind.. They said you would compete without putting 100's of hours into leveling your characters.
Anyone who thought that they were implying otherwise believed so because that is what they WANTED to believe...plain and simple. You can compete in very short order at the highest character level within 5-10 minutes of breaking the seal on the cd case. All of those runes, elites, and upgrades are not required to compete. They are designed to give players that put some effort into experiencing all aspects of the game a reward for doing so.
Anything they do to make things the way you and those like you want would either completely segregate or imbalance the game. While I can't say with absolute certainty, I'd be willing to bet you that ANet will do what they can to make things better, but they will NEVER kill their creation by making it so unblalanced and will not seperate it into two games in the same box. Maybe you can sweet talk them into a purely PvP Arena Edition that has absolutely nothing to do with the rest of their universe other than the classes and combat system.
AirOnG
Delete this thread. I'm going to be a little man and insult. I've failed to steer discussion away from people who can't let go of their Everquest mentality and believe that grinding is somehow "earning".
chowdah
There is no required grind to play PvP.
Anyone who grinds does it by their own choice - this is not Anets problem.
If you don't like the grind - don't do it - the choice is there.
Anyone who grinds does it by their own choice - this is not Anets problem.
If you don't like the grind - don't do it - the choice is there.
AirOnG
Quote:
| There is no required grind to play PvP. |
chowdah
Quote:
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Originally Posted by AirOnG
You don't understand competitive PvP.
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If elite skills are so "must-have" for high end PvP then GW is not really a "skill" based gamed but loot based - with "elite skills" being the uber-loot.
And its all BS anyways - I know a number of people who don't have a single elite skill that do very well in PvP.
AirOnG
That's flawed. That's like saying not being able to beat someone of equal skill level who always spawns with a rocket launcher and full armor in quake means quake isn't a skill based game.
DismalClown
I am sure the devs are very aware of your want for 0 grind. They have very good reasons to keep the "grind". And I am a firm believer in not telling game devs how to make a game. They are the experts (in game making) we are not.
Every game I play without fail there are people complaining about something. I don't know how devs put up with it, I really don’t.
And with every game I play I hope the devs trust their own expertise and don't listen to the players. I know most gamers won’t agree with my point of view but I don't tell other experts how to do their jobs.
Every game I play without fail there are people complaining about something. I don't know how devs put up with it, I really don’t.
And with every game I play I hope the devs trust their own expertise and don't listen to the players. I know most gamers won’t agree with my point of view but I don't tell other experts how to do their jobs.
chowdah
Quote:
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Originally Posted by AirOnG
That's flawed. That's like saying not being able to beat someone of equal skill level who always spawns with a rocket launcher and full armor in quake means quake isn't a skill based game.
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Corwin_Andros
Now if I understand things correctly, the majority of the "Hardcore" PvP crowd comes from MMORPG's or some sort of Multiplayer FPS.
Provided that is true, the biggest part of PvP in MMORPG's is what amounts to a gankfest and not real competition unless you have worked for several months and in some cases for years to level out and equip a character. You had to play not 100's but 1000's of hours to be even able to set foot into PvP and hope to have any chance of winning. That is where the entire idea of "grinding" comes from.
FPS generally don't have a grind persay and all things are readily available to players in short order.
GW is NOT either of these type of games. You can have a character ready to compete with in 5 minutes or within a week or two at the outside. Perhaps not the ideal character, but competative all the same.
The game is designed for balance. SO even if you have a team with all the doo dads facing a team without them all, you can still haved a good match and if the lesser equiped of the two teams is skilled enough, they can beat the team that has all the extra junk.
I've seen all the comparisons that if 2 teams of equal skill compete.. one with crap .. and the other without.. the team with the crap will win.. Well DUH!! But if the team without all the extra garbage is good enough .. they can win.. THat is competative if you ask me.
So any idea that people have that they just can't compete without having to go through the trouble of collecting all the optional stuff in the game are doing it to themselves. If the object of thh game is to have better skill at playing then play the game to be better. The extras will come when they do. IN the mean time the only ones stopping you from enjoying this excellent game is yourselves.
Provided that is true, the biggest part of PvP in MMORPG's is what amounts to a gankfest and not real competition unless you have worked for several months and in some cases for years to level out and equip a character. You had to play not 100's but 1000's of hours to be even able to set foot into PvP and hope to have any chance of winning. That is where the entire idea of "grinding" comes from.
FPS generally don't have a grind persay and all things are readily available to players in short order.
GW is NOT either of these type of games. You can have a character ready to compete with in 5 minutes or within a week or two at the outside. Perhaps not the ideal character, but competative all the same.
The game is designed for balance. SO even if you have a team with all the doo dads facing a team without them all, you can still haved a good match and if the lesser equiped of the two teams is skilled enough, they can beat the team that has all the extra junk.
I've seen all the comparisons that if 2 teams of equal skill compete.. one with crap .. and the other without.. the team with the crap will win.. Well DUH!! But if the team without all the extra garbage is good enough .. they can win.. THat is competative if you ask me.
So any idea that people have that they just can't compete without having to go through the trouble of collecting all the optional stuff in the game are doing it to themselves. If the object of thh game is to have better skill at playing then play the game to be better. The extras will come when they do. IN the mean time the only ones stopping you from enjoying this excellent game is yourselves.