Hydra Farming - Perdition Rock

Envy

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Apr 2005

QQ

Mo/Me

02 Jun 2005 at 16:36 - 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garric
What tactics? You only attack monsters that are melee, so they crowd around you, then you just do an attack that attacks nearby monsters and kill them. If you ran into a group that had a mesmer or a ranged enemy you would be completely screwed. I don't see any tactics running into a group of melee only enemies with no special attacks, killing them for loot, and then doing so for 5 hours in a row. You make me SICK.
Most don't do this just for the gold. They do it to unlock all the junk to make a 20th pvp character with the spells and items they want. A side effect to this? You standing in Lions Arch buying stuff for your toon at a reasonable price. Take away farming and see if you can afford that max damage yellow sword or that bow you have. In it's current state, the economy is low and flooded with things. This is what is more then likely making you upset at farmers. You cant sell some item you found for 30k because it was farmed and is selling for 5k. I say good because it's the greedy people that make me sick and not the famers.

AirOnG

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

02 Jun 2005 at 16:38 - 42
I love how certain people in this thread actually say it should be harder to farm and grind.

WeiPing

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

02 Jun 2005 at 17:35 - 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ensign
Unfortunately, farming is *required* if you want to be competitive.
Equipment, in this game, does not make the man.

The difference between any old equipment you will happen to find and the STATE OF THE ART TOP OF THE LINE equipment is very small. Even when it comes to runes...the most desired rune in the game is superior vigor, which has a 20 HP advantage over minor vigor. That's 5% of your hitpoints. If that 5% is *REQUIRED* if you want to be competative, then chances are, you're not going to be competative even if you do have the best of the best.

Basically, I think all this "Oh my gooses, we have to waste so much time to have a chance in pvp" is laughable at best.

Eclair

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2005

02 Jun 2005 at 18:01 - 44
Farming is good =P

Some people like to unlock stuff =P

gwden

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2005

02 Jun 2005 at 18:11 - 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by WeiPing
Basically, I think all this "Oh my gooses, we have to waste so much time to have a chance in pvp" is laughable at best.
The fact that you're so slow on the uptake IS laughable. Even after so many posts, from Koreans especially, you still fail to grasp the concept. Maybe you should actually try PvP in tombs with a competitive group before you go spouting off.

WeiPing

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

02 Jun 2005 at 18:24 - 46
Well, isn't that a compelling post, gweden. Or maybe it's completely aimless and baseless...a futile, desperate grasping of straws hoping to retain some dignity by, ironically enough, using nothing more than insults and second hand opinons.

My point stands. The difference between the best equipment in the game and equipment that anyone can get without even a minute of farming at all is very small, and if you think that difference is "required", then you're just making excuses for yourself.

gwden

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2005

02 Jun 2005 at 18:44 - 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by WeiPing
Well, isn't that a compelling post, gweden. Or maybe it's completely aimless and baseless...a futile, desperate grasping of straws hoping to retain some dignity by, ironically enough, using nothing more than insults and second hand opinons.

My point stands. The difference between the best equipment in the game and equipment that anyone can get without even a minute of farming at all is very small, and if you think that difference is "required", then you're just making excuses for yourself.
Yeah, except the discussion is about skills, not equipment. Like I said, get a clue.

Oh, and I did offer something constructive for you. Maybe if you weren't trying to impress me with your intelligence ( ), you'd see it.

WeiPing

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

02 Jun 2005 at 18:52 - 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwden
Yeah, except the discussion is about skills, not equipment. Like I said, get a clue.
*picks up a clue*

Hrm. It says here the discussion is about farming. OH MY GOODNESS, MY PERCEPTION OF REALITY IS CRUMBLING ALL AROUND ME!



kungfumonkey2

kungfumonkey2

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

Virginia

ACE~Ancient Combat Experts

E/Mo

02 Jun 2005 at 18:58 - 49
I agree with Farming, keeps the economy down, keeps items off of Ebay. Helps new players get into the game. For those of you that played Diablo2, it was an out of control economy, and later on the only way to really break into the upper echelon was to eventually fork over $20 for your 40sojs from Ebay. The strength of a society is the measure of its middle class. If we have a huge gap between our upper and lower class it provides instability.

Example:
Lets say 10% of the game is Elite/Uber players, 90% the rest of us. If there is a shift and Items become harder to obtain for the general populace. Lets say a max dmg Fiery Dragon sword or Chaos Axe now costs 40k. It is going to create frustrated players. Which will either hack or quit.

I understand that people that make it to the top want to feel special, and that they have accomplished something. Show off how much better you are than other people, and the hard work you put in to getting there. It is not selfish , rude or arrogant, just simply desiring recognition for your accomplishments. Top players are just going to have to get this recognition by skill, and attitude not simply because of shiny armor and nifty sword.

Rahne Sinclaire

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

Here.

The Dopplegangers [DoP]

W/Mo

02 Jun 2005 at 19:07 - 50
I've never seen anyone actually complain about OTHER people farming. Seems a little silly, if you ask me.

nechronius

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

Southern Cali

Herald of the Storm

W/R

02 Jun 2005 at 19:09 - 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by WeiPing
Well, isn't that a compelling post, gweden. Or maybe it's completely aimless and baseless...a futile, desperate grasping of straws hoping to retain some dignity by, ironically enough, using nothing more than insults and second hand opinons.

My point stands. The difference between the best equipment in the game and equipment that anyone can get without even a minute of farming at all is very small, and if you think that difference is "required", then you're just making excuses for yourself.
You have little understanding of true competition then if you think that 5% isn't a HUGE advantage. As much as you like to trumpet that skill is the "be all, end all" to winning, the bottom line is that at the highest levels of competition there is VERY little to distinguish between the best participants in sports or activities that require equipment. How many pro golfers are going to just buy a $100 beginner's set of clubs and win a PGA tour? How many race car drivers are gonna take a two season old car and expect to take the checkered flag?

Bottom line is that this game relies on equipment as a part of the game, whcih means that to improve your odds that 5% or 3% or even a meager 1% plays in heavily to your odds of winning more often than not.

Even in a game you consider more pure to skill, like say a first person shooter, you don't think that guys like fatal1ty aren't always looking for the fastest, best, most powerful equipment so that he can squeeze out a few extra frames per second so that he can play as smoothly as possible when the screen fills up with polys? Get real, the edge in equipment is a vital part of all competition.

Just so you know I'm not even PvP'ing right now but game theory has always fascinated me.

WeiPing

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

02 Jun 2005 at 19:23 - 52
Sure....all things being equal, it's better to have a 5% advantage than it is to not have a 5% advantage. I don't argue that. And for people who take this game extremely seroiusly, it definitely makes sense to get that 5% advantage.

None of that has any effect on my argument, which is, you do not need that 5% in order to be competative. You do not need to spend countless hours running the same farming run over and over exploiting the game in order to be competative, and if ArenaNet decides that's not the way they want their game being played (a perfectly rational decision considering how mind-numbing it is), that's their decision and they're right to make it.

gwden

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2005

02 Jun 2005 at 19:33 - 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by WeiPing
You do not need to spend countless hours running the same farming run over and over exploiting the game in order to be competative, and if ArenaNet decides that's not the way they want their game being played (a perfectly rational decision considering how mind-numbing it is), that's their decision and they're right to make it.
Yes, you do need to spend countless hours running the same farming run over and over in order to be competitive. Maybe not in PvE, but certainly in PvP. You need skill points for skills as the game does not provide enough of them with missions. If you disagree, read that interview with KOR or whatever, or read the posts in GH complaining of the same issue. I for one, am stuck with 0 skill points and my only option to get elites now is to farm... well, now that I can't farm, I guess I'm stuck. I can always go to the underworld and do quests over and over again-- but wait, isn't that farming, too? Tsk.

Lasher Dragon

Lasher Dragon

Draconic Rage Incarnate

Join Date: Apr 2005

Iowa

Alphahive

R/A

02 Jun 2005 at 19:42 - 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darc.Syde
they dont drop armors, so they're not worth farming...
Kinda what I was thinking... especially with how big of a pain in the ass they can be.

Ninna

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2005

Northeast USA

Guilded Rose

Me/

02 Jun 2005 at 19:49 - 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwden
Yes, you do need to spend countless hours running the same farming run over and over in order to be competitive. Maybe not in PvE, but certainly in PvP.
according to your logic

you *MUST* buy all future expansions (with new skills) to remain competitive




the PvP game is fasioned after the card game Magic: The Gathering

- you dont need all skills to be competitive

Kaeru

Kaeru

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

02 Jun 2005 at 19:53 - 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ensign
I cannot agree with this more. Farming is incredibly boring and only minimally tolerable when I'm chatting with guildies on vent.

Unfortunately, farming is *required* if you want to be competitive. All that talk about 'player skill, not hours played' is a nice soundbite that fails in practice. Not even counting the need to run multiple characters through the game to unlock all important skills, or having to run to the middle of nowhere to capture build-critical elites, there's still the single biggest source of grind in the game to deal with - superior runes. They're rare, casual players aren't even supposed to find one, and they are absolutely neccessary for the proper functioning of many builds.

If I could just roll up a PvP character and compete I would. But I can't. I need the proper runes, so I go and pharm giants, or ettins, or whatever the popular spot is at the moment, in an attempt to unlock the runes I need to be competitive in PvP - or at least raise enough money to buy stopgaps. I figure the game requires around 500 hours of pure rune pharming before one can be considered PvP enabled. I don't like it, but I'm not willing to lose because of inferior equipment. They want to let me stop farming? Give me an alternative.

Peace,
-CxE
heres a good alternative: quit playing the game

Imaginos

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2005

02 Jun 2005 at 19:54 - 57
To the OP: You're a monk primary correct?

I don't think that farming these hydras is doable for a monk secondary, or i should say a non caster monk secondary (ie war/rng). Not enough mana, not enough mana regen to spam spells to set off zelots fire.

gwden

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2005

02 Jun 2005 at 20:10 - 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninna
according to your logic

you *MUST* buy all future expansions (with new skills) to remain competitive

the PvP game is fasioned after the card game Magic: The Gathering

- you dont need all skills to be competitive
Yes, if the expansions bring new skills, you'd have to get them in order to stay competitive.

You know, I heard a lot of these MTG. I never played the game mostly for the following reason: it is expensive. Why is it expensive? Because you need to keep buying packs to get good cards so you can win. Look at those people who sell/trade MTG cards on ebay, they have STACKS of them. That sounds pretty competitive to me.

Dumachum

Dumachum

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

Florida

na

R/E

02 Jun 2005 at 20:10 - 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninna
according to your logic

you *MUST* buy all future expansions (with new skills) to remain competitive




the PvP game is fasioned after the card game Magic: The Gathering

- you dont need all skills to be competitive

Bravo!

And I don't give a shit what KOR, any guild, or anyone else says especially the self styled "top 5% competetive PVPers that pwn the server". The arrogance of these pricks is truely amazing and if they think the perceived "grind" is too much in GW or that they should be handed everything on a silver platter so they can circumvent 99% of the gameplay and jump right to the "lollerskates u r teh pwned bitches haw haw haw" then they can simply exodus the server with the rest of the "hardcore pvp" douchebags. It isn't like any game is better WITH them.

gwden

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2005

02 Jun 2005 at 20:16 - 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dumachum
Bravo!

And I don't give a shit what KOR, any guild, or anyone else says especially the self styled "top 5% competetive PVPers that pwn the server". The arrogance of these pricks is truely amazing and if they think the perceived "grind" is too much in GW or that they should be handed everything on a silver platter so they can circumvent 99% of the gameplay and jump right to the "lollerskates u r teh pwned bitches haw haw haw" then they can simply exodus the server with the rest of the "hardcore pvp" douchebags. It isn't like any game is better WITH them.
The argument here is that they already did the missions, did the quests, and now they want to PvP, but they can't pvp competitively without the right skills. As a result, they're forced REPEAT the whole process. This is a problem because most of these "pricks" were under the impression that this game is "skill over time" when they bought it.

Ninna

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2005

Northeast USA

Guilded Rose

Me/

02 Jun 2005 at 20:23 - 61
you certainly have more variety to choose from if have all skills
(with expansions, im assuming a player will have access to 300+ skills)


but in the end,
- you can only carry *8 skills* with you into combat
- you can only carry *one* elite skill

Dumachum

Dumachum

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

Florida

na

R/E

02 Jun 2005 at 20:25 - 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwden
The argument here is that they already did the missions, did the quests, and now they want to PvP, but they can't pvp competitively without the right skills. As a result, they're forced REPEAT the whole process. This is a problem because most of these "pricks" were under the impression that this game is "skill over time" when they bought it.


Only YOU DONT need 80 elites and 20 superior runes unlocked to be competetive. And if you DO then chances are you won't beat the ones who don't when they DO end up getting them. Your argument is retarded and without base.

Or hey how about we give the whiners their own ladder but limit them to nothing but template builds. 8 skills, no runes, no elites. INSTANT EQUALITY EXACTLY WHAT THEY ARE WHINING FOR. Then the only way to get an edge would exploiting spell bugs and mechanics to rack up 50 straight wins (which some of the "elite" already seem to be gods at) How does that idea sound?

Counter Strike is THAT way ---->

AirOnG

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

02 Jun 2005 at 20:26 - 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by WeiPing
Sure....all things being equal, it's better to have a 5% advantage than it is to not have a 5% advantage. I don't argue that. And for people who take this game extremely seroiusly, it definitely makes sense to get that 5% advantage.

None of that has any effect on my argument, which is, you do not need that 5% in order to be competative.
This would depend on your connotation of "competitive." Most alpha players and beta players agree runes (specially superior) offer a significant advantage to those who have them over those who don't. You have to understand that things like 5% more damage or healing in a game such as this translates into much more than a 5% advantage if you take into account a variety of other factors.

Dumachan, you shouldn't demonize the opposition simply because it is convenient for your perspective. They are reasonable humans much as yourself. Calling them pricks is simply childish.

Flexibility of builds helps, Ninna, in both experimentation and countering your opponent between battles.

Ninna

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2005

Northeast USA

Guilded Rose

Me/

02 Jun 2005 at 20:30 - 64
I agree that it helps with flexibilility

I'm disagreeing you are "not competitive" if you don't have all skills possible

Dumachum

Dumachum

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

Florida

na

R/E

02 Jun 2005 at 20:31 - 65
I have NEVER met a reasonable "pvper/pk". Nice try.

gwden

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2005

02 Jun 2005 at 20:36 - 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninna
you certainly have more variety to choose from if have all skills
(with expansions, im assuming a player will have access to 300+ skills)


but in the end,
- you can only carry *8 skills* with you into combat
- you can only carry *one* elite skill
Actually, in the end it's 64 skills, 8 for each member of the group. That's 8 elite skills. Don't forget, we're talking about competitive PvP and not some random arena clusterf.

64 skills is nothing to laugh at. Don't forget that guilds try different strategies before they go into the arena. If someone is dominating HoH with a specific build and you lose to them, you'd change the strategy and skills, and go back in. As you can see, you need all skills available at any give time.

Ninna

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2005

Northeast USA

Guilded Rose

Me/

02 Jun 2005 at 20:40 - 67
Guild Wars is the most class balanced fantasy MMO I have ever played


I have faith in Anet that when they make this claim, they will probably deliver
http://www.guildwars.com/faq/default.html#release
Quote:
When you buy the chapters of Guild Wars, you will acquire a larger collection of skills and abilities from which to build your skill set, but you will not gain more power. So if you purchase a chapter and your friend does not, you will still be able to play competitively against and with one another.
before you challenge any other Anet claims
- please post Anet quotes with llinks

nechronius

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

Southern Cali

Herald of the Storm

W/R

02 Jun 2005 at 20:41 - 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninna
according to your logic

you *MUST* buy all future expansions (with new skills) to remain competitive




the PvP game is fasioned after the card game Magic: The Gathering

- you dont need all skills to be competitive
MTG is a poor example. I'll spare readers the page of explanation as to why this is the case, but it is. The basic gameplay idea may be similar, but the implementation is where the real difference is.

Dumachum

Dumachum

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

Florida

na

R/E

02 Jun 2005 at 20:45 - 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninna
Guild Wars is the most class balanced fantasy MMO I have ever played


I have faith in Anet that when they make this claim, they will probably deliver
http://www.guildwars.com/faq/default.html#release


before you challenge any other Anet claims
- please post Anet quotes with llinks

You call people bringing 4-5 Air elementals and Mo/Me's into tomb "class ballanced"?

Ninna

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2005

Northeast USA

Guilded Rose

Me/

02 Jun 2005 at 20:46 - 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by nechronius
MTG is a poor example. I'll spare readers the page of explanation as to why this is the case, but it is. The basic gameplay idea may be similar, but the implementation is where the real difference is.
it may be a poor example but thats what Anet has compared Guild Wars PvP to

from same link
http://www.guildwars.com/faq/default.html#release
Quote:
Purchasing the newer chapters of Guild Wars will not make you strictly more powerful. You will have access to many more strategic options, due to the expanding nature of the skills, abilities, items and professions that you enjoy with each chapter.

It would be similar to building a deck in Magic: The Gathering™: The more cards you own, the more different playing decks that you can choose from to use in the game.

WeiPing

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

02 Jun 2005 at 20:51 - 71
Laughable at best.

gwden

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2005

02 Jun 2005 at 20:54 - 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninna
Guild Wars is the most class balanced fantasy MMO I have ever played


I have faith in Anet that when they make this claim, they will probably deliver
http://www.guildwars.com/faq/default.html#release


before you challenge any other Anet claims
- please post Anet quotes with llinks
First of all, GW is not a MMO. It is actually:

Quote:
Rather than labeling Guild Wars an MMORPG, we prefer to call it a CORPG (Competitive Online Role-Playing Game). Guild Wars was designed from the ground up to create the best possible competitive role-playing experience. Success in Guild Wars is always the result of player skill, not time spent playing or the size of one's guild.
Second of all, all companies claim their expansions will not make people more competitive, but in the end, they do. One popular expample of this is DAoC and their ToA expansion. The only way they make that happen is by separating people like Blizzard did with Diablo 2.

Ninna

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2005

Northeast USA

Guilded Rose

Me/

02 Jun 2005 at 20:57 - 73
I hope you are wrong about needing all future expansions to compete in PvP


time will tell

Icarium

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2005

Calgary Ab Canada

Hell Bringers Clan [HELL]

Me/N

02 Jun 2005 at 20:59 - 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volarian
It's funny that soooo many people expose themselves as LAZY

"PvP'rs have to grind"....well boo freaking hoo, if you want instant gratification go play a PS2 or Xbox and get cheat codes before you buy a game so that you can circumvent the primary theme of the game.....which is PLAYING IT.

I think all of the threads like this one, which start out as a player showing how they've LEARNED skill combo's that allow them to handle larger mobs alone, then have someone piping up their personal greivance with regards to PvE vs PvP are absolutely depressing.
If you don't like it, don't play and definitely don't post in ANY thread about your displeasure because you actually have to EARN something that you want. Go back to playing DOOM or Duke Nukem with GOD MODE...if you don't want to enjoy the graphics and gameplay GW offers....cause we don't wanna hear it!!!
could not have said it better myself , and this would apply to amlost every thread ive posted in

gwden

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2005

02 Jun 2005 at 21:00 - 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninna
I hope you are wrong about needing all future expansions to compete in PvP


time will tell
Think about it, you have 450 skills and the guy you're fighting with has 750. Out of those new 300 skills, I'm betting many will be counters to old skill set.

Ninna

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2005

Northeast USA

Guilded Rose

Me/

02 Jun 2005 at 21:01 - 76
MMO is not MMORPG

MMO is a generic term and encompassing of many styles of online play


Diablo and Diablo2 are MMOs

EQ/AO/WOW are MMORPGS (and loosely MMO)

Guild Wars is CORPG (and loosely MMO)

Studio Ghibli

Studio Ghibli

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2005

Gaelic Storm

02 Jun 2005 at 22:13 - 77
Wow.

Talk about derailed.

For what it's worth, superior and major runes do offer a nice advantage in that you're able to ration your skill points more effectively.

Garric

Banned

Join Date: Apr 2005

02 Jun 2005 at 22:20 - 78
I can't believe people even think farming takes skill. This is how you farm:

Go online, to forums. Find a post or guide saying:

"omg dud u can farm deze guys for major lootage, omg u noob, look at dis video. i ownd deze guys the ran up to me and i ownd em by using these skillz:

1. skill x
2. skill y ..
8. skill z.

now u can do it too u nub, farm liek ever1 else it takes mad skillz~!!!!"

evilb

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

02 Jun 2005 at 22:23 - 79
why are people so hang up on "They Don't Drop Armor" so "It's not worth to farm there".

If I want to farm armor so badly all i need is to go to x location and farm there.

guess what, you can also unlock weapon upgrades not just runes(armor). From staff wrappings to sword upgrades.

and some people are also farming for gold. So they can buy unlocked items.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garric
I can't believe people even think farming takes skill. This is how you farm:

Go online, to forums. Find a post or guide saying:

"omg dud u can farm deze guys for major lootage, omg u noob, look at dis video. i ownd deze guys the ran up to me and i ownd em by using these skillz:

1. skill x
2. skill y ..
8. skill z.

now u can do it too u nub, farm liek ever1 else it takes mad skillz~!!!!"
You should note that making heavy use of protective spirit and superior runes rocks.

such concept isn't only applied to farming but also playing in general.

vs. Air Elementalists in PVP?

stumpy

stumpy

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Feb 2005

Canucklehead BC, Canada

Advanced Necro Undead Society

03 Jun 2005 at 23:05 - 80
you wont NEED them ... persay... they will include bonus stuff that will not directly effect people playing together nor will it effect peiple playing against one another.

It will just open up more options to those who do buy it however it is not necessary. If you find a good build with this test it out after ... you may not need the 300 skills, if your still owning people.