Here are my three gripes about dyes and suggestion to fix them
1. Since they are so expensive one should get to preview how dye will affect armor before using it. Heck, have an NPC who will, for a price, SHOW characters how a dye will affect their armor. Double heck, maybe the dye trader could be more useful than just being a price gouging wench.
2. If dye color A plus dye color B create dye color C, and I mix a bottle of dye A and a bottle of dye B, would I not get TWO bottles of dye C? Why do two, three, or four bottles of dye shrink into ONE? It is a major rip off.
3. Why make the color mixing complicated? Is the run-of-the-mill paint color mixing chart most people know about so bad? Dye is more like paint than light! Why do we need user-made programs to predict how dyes will mix! Also, I had a vial of what looked like dark blue dye (it was a mix) and it titnted my ranger's britches very pale blue. Pretty, but STILL. I am at a loss as to why this was made so complicated.
--Nokomis
The stupidity of dyes and dye mixing
Nokomis
Dyeeo
1. I totally agree, though dyes are not very expensive. I just wasted a black dye on my pyromancer chest armor. It turned out purple and that was really a large dissapointment.
2. Agree
3. I think mixing should be hard to predict. However I agree that the color on the bottle should be the color it actually shows up as.
2. Agree
3. I think mixing should be hard to predict. However I agree that the color on the bottle should be the color it actually shows up as.
Lucon
Excellent suggestions. I don't really plan on dying my shit until I have an outfit I want to keep, though.
eA-Zaku
I disagree. Dying should be a LUXURY, or perhaps something to do in your spare time. Players should NOT be able to afford to experiment and throw away dyes on a whim, UNTIL they can afford it, and UNTIL they have finished the important things (like Ascension)
By the time you truly "deserve" to dye, or lose/waste dye, then it should not be a problem financially. Dye does not even help you statistically so I don't see the problem. This is IMO, and I agree that the Dye Trader is pretty useless, as well as dyes being expensive (especially when mixing) But I keep in mind that dying is useless as well as a luxury.
By the time you truly "deserve" to dye, or lose/waste dye, then it should not be a problem financially. Dye does not even help you statistically so I don't see the problem. This is IMO, and I agree that the Dye Trader is pretty useless, as well as dyes being expensive (especially when mixing) But I keep in mind that dying is useless as well as a luxury.
Stev0
There should be a utility offered to experiment with colors ... I agree.
The price of dyes are too incredible to just throw away coin on a whim.
The price of dyes are too incredible to just throw away coin on a whim.
Slade xTekno
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Nokomis
Here are my three gripes about dyes and suggestion to fix them
1. Since they are so expensive one should get to preview how dye will affect armor before using it. Heck, have an NPC who will, for a price, SHOW characters how a dye will affect their armor. Double heck, maybe the dye trader could be more useful than just being a price gouging wench. 2. If dye color A plus dye color B create dye color C, and I mix a bottle of dye A and a bottle of dye B, would I not get TWO bottles of dye C? Why do two, three, or four bottles of dye shrink into ONE? It is a major rip off. 3. Why make the color mixing complicated? Is the run-of-the-mill paint color mixing chart most people know about so bad? Dye is more like paint than light! Why do we need user-made programs to predict how dyes will mix! Also, I had a vial of what looked like dark blue dye (it was a mix) and it titnted my ranger's britches very pale blue. Pretty, but STILL. I am at a loss as to why this was made so complicated. --Nokomis |
However, the answer to the third question is rather simple - mixing colors in Guild Wars is done by mixing light, not pigment. It seems like you already knew this, so ponder it further by realizing that lightning plays a much more important role in current games than it did in the past.
I don't know how far in the game you are, but money really isn't an issue later on. Popping a couple hundred for a vial of dye becomes something so trivial you end up just buying it at the trader.
Mountain Man
Dye preview: Absolutely! The results are too unpredictable, and dye is too expensive for casual experimenting.
Apophis Jaan
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by eA-Zaku
I disagree. Dying should be a LUXURY, or perhaps something to do in your spare time. Players should NOT be able to afford to experiment and throw away dyes on a whim, UNTIL they can afford it, and UNTIL they have finished the important things (like Ascension)
By the time you truly "deserve" to dye, or lose/waste dye, then it should not be a problem financially. Dye does not even help you statistically so I don't see the problem. This is IMO, and I agree that the Dye Trader is pretty useless, as well as dyes being expensive (especially when mixing) But I keep in mind that dying is useless as well as a luxury. |
Axelia
Does a merchant mix dyes you have obtained? Sorry if this sounds so NOOB but I really haven't seen a trader that mixes them. I did however buy a dye remover thinking I would get my dye back. 
Gs-Cyan Bloodbane
I love mixing dyes and change my armor color at whim at times. and i'm not talking just like red or blue. I'm talking the putrid green you get from green and red mixed. or the pinkish purple from yellow and purple. Or the golden color of orange and yellow. oh or the crisp color of purple and red on a necro armor. now thats striking armor.
a lot of the mixes i have seen are usually bolder and more noticable then the run of the mil colors. then again i like teh characters that mix and match armor pieces to make a suit instead of just playing with all one style.
a lot of the mixes i have seen are usually bolder and more noticable then the run of the mil colors. then again i like teh characters that mix and match armor pieces to make a suit instead of just playing with all one style.
KingKryton
i tried to dye my magmas shield silver to go with the rest of my silver dyed gear. hoping that the orange mouth would chnage to silver. well guess what. i was glad to see the icon for it in my inventory did what i hoped but to find that it didnt dye the actual thing :S Same happened when i spend 3500 on black dye to turn my eternal shield black but its didnt do squat.
Swarnt Brightstar
I was always curious about that... You can dye weapons and shields, but it does, guesss what, nothing... I dyed a bow I had silver (keep in mind I'm trying to get a guild hall) and It didnt do squatdidleydoo!
Zexion
One thing I don't like is how necro scars become azure when dyed purple.
To make them purple, you have to dye them yellow.
That is VERY wierd, and should be fixed.
_Zexion
To make them purple, you have to dye them yellow.
That is VERY wierd, and should be fixed.
_Zexion
Cymmina
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Nokomis
Is the run-of-the-mill paint color mixing chart most people know about so bad? Dye is more like paint than light!
|
I do wish there was a way to preview armors with dyes. I've tried mixing colors, but every single dye I try to apply to my 15k rogue's armor looks like absolute crap. Come on Anet, how about making a stand alone app that can use GWs art files and dye algorithm so we can see the results?
Swarnt Brightstar
We all wish...
Apophis Jaan
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Cymmina
Yes, but your monitor is based off of blending light, not pigment. It would be far easier to use an existing light blending algorithm than try and develop a pigment one for the sake of dyes (which could end up being exceptionally complex once you get past tier 2 dyes). I'm not saying I agree with Anet's choice, I'm just explaining the most likely reason they did it that way.
I do wish there was a way to preview armors with dyes. I've tried mixing colors, but every single dye I try to apply to my 15k rogue's armor looks like absolute crap. Come on Anet, how about making a stand alone app that can use GWs art files and dye algorithm so we can see the results? |
So really Arenanet did color mixing the way they did, because they WANTED to.
Magus
I really have divided thoughts on this one. On one hand, it would be great if you could preview your dyes (especially since the colors are different for different armors and professions), but I also agree with eA-Zaku that dye-ing should be a luxury, although I'm leaning more towards having some way of being able to preview appearances.
I think this should apply with the 15K ascension armor too. Before I realized that they were going to be changed, I spent 15 platinum on the ascension aeromancer robes only to see that it looked exactly the same as the normal aeromancer robes (this was before I knew that the graphics were being worked on) I had to sell it and waste 15K (along with the extra money put into the materials) and get a different armor. But even with this situation aside, it would be nice to be able to preview the ascension armor, so that we know what we're getting for our money.
I think this should apply with the 15K ascension armor too. Before I realized that they were going to be changed, I spent 15 platinum on the ascension aeromancer robes only to see that it looked exactly the same as the normal aeromancer robes (this was before I knew that the graphics were being worked on) I had to sell it and waste 15K (along with the extra money put into the materials) and get a different armor. But even with this situation aside, it would be nice to be able to preview the ascension armor, so that we know what we're getting for our money.
Apophis Jaan
I've seen this often, why do you people always think customization should be a luxury? I really don't get it, I'm all for symbols of accomplishment and prestige. But in the form of really good armor (ascension armor for example, after the new art) or a really rare unique weapon. Simple customization like color should be easily attainable by all. I'd rather see fifty people dyed funky colors then see fifty people who look nigh identical. Even though dyes are a luxury now, I still dont see a guy dyed black and think "he must be good" I see "oh cool he's all black". Just like I don't assume someone sees my character dyed all silver and thinks "she must be good" I assume they see me and think "ooh shiny!".
Phoenix Denfer
I agree, dyes were just to common in pre-searing to be thought of as anything but a simple means to further customize your character. Perhaps the developers thought..oh..post searing.. everything should be more scarce, but its not. Just the dyes.
It is ludicrous to have dyes running as high as 300 gold or more.. (not even going to get started about black.) I also agree, two dyes mixed together should give you two vials of that mixed color. Preferably with some unique graphic to indicate they are mixed.
We are very limited in customization. Heavens I landed in a spot right next to a ranger that was my exact same height, armor, face and hair style. Too boot her guild cape was nearly identical to mine. I had a hard time seeing who was me and who was this other ranger. LOL
My request to Arena.net.. stop being selfish with the dye and let us play with it. If armor is going to be 15K a piece at the end of this game, I want time to mix and practice colors earlier on lower level pieces before trying to apply it to my final armor. Its like a break in the constant kill and be killed environment. A chance to role play a bit. I also would not like to wait until I'm 80% complete with the game to have enough gold to buy my armor and the dye I need because for some silly reason the game knows I want blue, so all the drops I get are green.
It is ludicrous to have dyes running as high as 300 gold or more.. (not even going to get started about black.) I also agree, two dyes mixed together should give you two vials of that mixed color. Preferably with some unique graphic to indicate they are mixed.
We are very limited in customization. Heavens I landed in a spot right next to a ranger that was my exact same height, armor, face and hair style. Too boot her guild cape was nearly identical to mine. I had a hard time seeing who was me and who was this other ranger. LOL
My request to Arena.net.. stop being selfish with the dye and let us play with it. If armor is going to be 15K a piece at the end of this game, I want time to mix and practice colors earlier on lower level pieces before trying to apply it to my final armor. Its like a break in the constant kill and be killed environment. A chance to role play a bit. I also would not like to wait until I'm 80% complete with the game to have enough gold to buy my armor and the dye I need because for some silly reason the game knows I want blue, so all the drops I get are green.
Lek Stacy
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Zexion
One thing I don't like is how necro scars become azure when dyed purple.
To make them purple, you have to dye them yellow. That is VERY wierd, and should be fixed. _Zexion |
I depends on your necros skin colour what colour of scars your going to get.
Rhunex
I really don't see what's wrong with the pricing. Sure, black dye gets up there but that's because there's so little of it in the game. And there's so little of it in the game because people find it, and use it on their own armor because black makes everything look wicked awesome.
Also, if you know how the colors will not mix(for example, you think they should mix like paint) then you should be able to predict what kind of system they are using so you can predict which colors will be the output of what you put in. For example, their system of mixing is so arbitrary that if you mix red and blue you get yellow. It's fairly easy to predict what comes out, and silver acts as a white when mixing with other colors, which is how you get lighter tints.
I think you should only get 1 bottle. Because when mixing two colors together(with liquids) often times it's not a 50/50 mix(or your preferred 100/100 mix) of what you start out with, and sometimes it ends up being something like 33/55. Plus, to get better colors like pink(Red/Silver) you have to sacrifice some of your gold. I think one of the reasons dye is so expensive, is because the designers planned on people who have more gold, have better looking armor. Sure, you can dye it regular blue, but people will stand in awe if they know you mixed your dyes for each piece of your armor, because it costs more. Kind of like getting the 15k sets instead of 1.5k sets.
Also, if you know how the colors will not mix(for example, you think they should mix like paint) then you should be able to predict what kind of system they are using so you can predict which colors will be the output of what you put in. For example, their system of mixing is so arbitrary that if you mix red and blue you get yellow. It's fairly easy to predict what comes out, and silver acts as a white when mixing with other colors, which is how you get lighter tints.
I think you should only get 1 bottle. Because when mixing two colors together(with liquids) often times it's not a 50/50 mix(or your preferred 100/100 mix) of what you start out with, and sometimes it ends up being something like 33/55. Plus, to get better colors like pink(Red/Silver) you have to sacrifice some of your gold. I think one of the reasons dye is so expensive, is because the designers planned on people who have more gold, have better looking armor. Sure, you can dye it regular blue, but people will stand in awe if they know you mixed your dyes for each piece of your armor, because it costs more. Kind of like getting the 15k sets instead of 1.5k sets.
PieXags
Yeah, we need better dye thingies. To be able to see how they'd turn out would be great, better mixing systems would be great.
Why?
Because dyes are about the only way someone can add something...unique to his or her character, and even that isn't unique really.
Why the HELL should it be a privelage to have BLUE armor instead of YELLOW armor? Screw that, give me blue armor instead of yellow armor so I can look different than the group of 5 over by the henchmen.
Why?
Because dyes are about the only way someone can add something...unique to his or her character, and even that isn't unique really.
Why the HELL should it be a privelage to have BLUE armor instead of YELLOW armor? Screw that, give me blue armor instead of yellow armor so I can look different than the group of 5 over by the henchmen.
Rhunex
Mwa ha ha ha ha...I have pink armor...which no one else has to this date(that I have seen). Pink armor is teh rules...Red+Silver mix for each piece(helmet excluded, this is my elementalist I'm talking about which you can't dye the helmet on).
Gs-Cyan Bloodbane
Rhunex. My warrior has been sporting pink armor for a long time. there is a better pink then red silver anyway. Try mixing Purple and yellow. Opposite colors give you some really nice shades in this game. Green/red a putrid green, Yellow/Purple a nice pink and orange and blue is a shade i can't remember atm too tired but it was closer to orange. think it was sorta copperish golden sorta color
Morat
I have a Ranger's fur vest. I tried dying it red. Now I have an extremely camp looking PINK furry vest. It was so awful I kept it.
Dirkiess
Anyone ever thought that it could actually be there monitors that are causing certain colours they want to look like something different.
Changing the colour ranges on monitors can have an impact on what you see on screen and not all monitors show the colours in the same way.
I have an LCD and CRT and both of high quality, however, the LCD shows me a sharper clearer picture than my CRT and needs less adjustment with the colours shown and I can rarely get both screen colours to look exactly the same. The reason i say this, I have a duel screen setup and I try my best to get as close as possible so it doesn't look too odd.
With regards to only getting one dye when using two, why not have it that you get 1 dye that can be used twice. The reason being, you are pouring one dye into another bottle. In reality, would give you twice the liquid.
And my opinion on the luxury aspect. Cobblers. It's a customisation feature and I'm all for people being able to customise there armor a lot easier than they do now, and it has no impact on overall performance. The only thing i can see it doing, is making armor harder to determine what sort of Defences they have. In the case of Ele armor, they have fire, air etc defense and the armors look different.
If the colours were similar but you had several pieces of different armor, it would be hard to see what type of defenses you had.
Changing the colour ranges on monitors can have an impact on what you see on screen and not all monitors show the colours in the same way.
I have an LCD and CRT and both of high quality, however, the LCD shows me a sharper clearer picture than my CRT and needs less adjustment with the colours shown and I can rarely get both screen colours to look exactly the same. The reason i say this, I have a duel screen setup and I try my best to get as close as possible so it doesn't look too odd.
With regards to only getting one dye when using two, why not have it that you get 1 dye that can be used twice. The reason being, you are pouring one dye into another bottle. In reality, would give you twice the liquid.
And my opinion on the luxury aspect. Cobblers. It's a customisation feature and I'm all for people being able to customise there armor a lot easier than they do now, and it has no impact on overall performance. The only thing i can see it doing, is making armor harder to determine what sort of Defences they have. In the case of Ele armor, they have fire, air etc defense and the armors look different.
If the colours were similar but you had several pieces of different armor, it would be hard to see what type of defenses you had.
Nokomis
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Cymmina
Yes, but your monitor is based off of blending light, not pigment. It would be far easier to use an existing light blending algorithm than try and develop a pigment one for the sake of dyes (which could end up being exceptionally complex once you get past tier 2 dyes). I'm not saying I agree with Anet's choice, I'm just explaining the most likely reason they did it that way.
|
I'm no programmer but there is NO way they made the dye mixing the way they did because of how the monitor works. There are lots of programs where colors mix like paint, not light, and I don't think they had to hire a genius or spend millions to make those programs work. No way was this a choice based on some hardware/software limitation.
Admit it A-net: Some game design guy thought he was being clever or cute in making the dyes hard to mix. The VP of dye mixing at A-net had WAAAY too much Mountain Dew from the 7-11 across the street and came up with a brilliant idea: make dye and dying things really counter-intuitive and frustrating!
As they say in the Guinness commercials: BRILLIANT!!
If only he'd had a girlfriend who could have taken away his 180 ounce neon yellow soft drink and explained to him that many people like their characters to be unique looking and have neat-o armor and clothing. And they don't WANT to sit and play with dyes and armor and waste time and effort to find out that after much careful dye hoarding and mixing, their armor barely takes dye anyhow, and the part that DOES change color changes into an UGLY color. Ugh-ly.
But he had no girlfriend. Just his action figures super-glued to his monitor. So now we are stuck with silly, physics-defying dye. :-(
--Nokomis
Winterclaw
I'd like to see a preveiw as well. I had some silver and yellow sitting in my vault so I mixed it trying to get a goldish color and put it on my ascalon helm. I think only a little bit of the helm changed color. As an experiment I put orange on my chest peice and only the spiked should pad showed a slight change. I wanted to dye my elementalists armor blue and the only thing that changed was the trim. Frankly, I'm quite dissapointed with how little some armors will be dyed compaired so others (ranger armor, heubruk, etc). If armor has two color parts, I say let us dye both.
Galatea
1. Yeah, I'd like to be able to preview dyes. I used a chart from these forums to create "pink" and it turned out much darker than I wanted. I tried adding silver, and it turned out.. exactly the same.
The Dye Trader should offer some sort of preview option.. similar to the designing of the guild capes, in that you can see it modeled on your character without having to purchase it.
Or, for a small fee, you can purchase from the dye trader a "Sampler Dye". This dye would "expire" in the bottle (so that people wouldn't buy a black sampler dye for 50 gold and sell it as black dye for 3000 gold) as well as expire on the armor (after a time limit of maybe 20 minutes, the color would disappear).
2. Yeah, that doesn't make sense lol -- why do 2, 3, or 4 dyes always equal one?
3. I agree, I don't like that the color in my bottle is never what shows up on my armor.
May I add a new suggestion to this thread: the color white? I have tried mixing colors many times to create a lighter shade of pink for my character. Silver has not decreased the shade at all, or made my armor any shinier. :\
The Dye Trader should offer some sort of preview option.. similar to the designing of the guild capes, in that you can see it modeled on your character without having to purchase it.
Or, for a small fee, you can purchase from the dye trader a "Sampler Dye". This dye would "expire" in the bottle (so that people wouldn't buy a black sampler dye for 50 gold and sell it as black dye for 3000 gold) as well as expire on the armor (after a time limit of maybe 20 minutes, the color would disappear).
2. Yeah, that doesn't make sense lol -- why do 2, 3, or 4 dyes always equal one?
3. I agree, I don't like that the color in my bottle is never what shows up on my armor.
May I add a new suggestion to this thread: the color white? I have tried mixing colors many times to create a lighter shade of pink for my character. Silver has not decreased the shade at all, or made my armor any shinier. :\
Laurelin Goldtree
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Rhunex
Mwa ha ha ha ha...I have pink armor...which no one else has to this date(that I have seen).
|
Winterclaw
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Galatea
May I add a new suggestion to this thread: the color white? I have tried mixing colors many times to create a lighter shade of pink for my character. Silver has not decreased the shade at all, or made my armor any shinier. :\
|
Here's another idea - a dye mixer NPC. He's sort of like an advanced dye trader but instead of buying one dye at a time and then mixing them, you give him the color and he'll mix them for you and charge you depending on how many you want and the types of dyes used to make the mix.
Evan The Cursed
Agreed with original poster.
Hanok Odbrook
The simplist solution to this is just for Arena.net to create a chart in the on-line manual listing the complete mix results - red + blue = purple; red + silver = pink; all colors except silver mixed = black, etc. That way, we all would know exactly what colors are available and how to get them. It would also be nice to be able to sell mixed colors to the trader which would then be added to her inventory.
One of the biggest gripes I have come across, though, is the fact that a lot of armor and weapons don't really show any significant change when dyed. Just going through a PvP only character shows that some pieces only have a small highlight of the color you may want. A major change needs to be done here so that not only will more of the colors show up on the armor, but an option to dye the various parts of the armor different colors be available as well.
Using the Warrior Ringmail Leggings from Pre-Sear as an example, it would be great to be able to dye the entire leather part one color, then dye the chainmail part another color - this would allow for some really wacky Colin Baker Doctor Who type of outfits!!
Hanok Odbrook
Real Millennium Group Guild
http://www.realmillenniumgroup.com/guild.html
Truth * Knowledge * Peace
One of the biggest gripes I have come across, though, is the fact that a lot of armor and weapons don't really show any significant change when dyed. Just going through a PvP only character shows that some pieces only have a small highlight of the color you may want. A major change needs to be done here so that not only will more of the colors show up on the armor, but an option to dye the various parts of the armor different colors be available as well.
Using the Warrior Ringmail Leggings from Pre-Sear as an example, it would be great to be able to dye the entire leather part one color, then dye the chainmail part another color - this would allow for some really wacky Colin Baker Doctor Who type of outfits!!
Hanok Odbrook
Real Millennium Group Guild
http://www.realmillenniumgroup.com/guild.html
Truth * Knowledge * Peace
johnnylange
Dye previewing would be nice. Although I dyed my armor green and it's looks good. Note: untill you use dye remover, the color will stay with every armor you equip new or old.
Quantum_Cats
Changing the pigment blending to light blending is your video card's job.
dargon
You do realize that a chart would be near impossible as there are over 2000 different dye combinations. It could be a little tough for you to pick out the exact color you want 
Caelus The Fallen
Does it make a difference to the colour if you use Dye Remover on an item first?
For example, dying the purple trim of an Elementalist's robe with Red; compared to using Dye Remover on said robe, then dying it Red.
For example, dying the purple trim of an Elementalist's robe with Red; compared to using Dye Remover on said robe, then dying it Red.
Angryhob0z
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by eA-Zaku
I disagree. Dying should be a LUXURY, or perhaps something to do in your spare time. Players should NOT be able to afford to experiment and throw away dyes on a whim, UNTIL they can afford it, and UNTIL they have finished the important things (like Ascension)
By the time you truly "deserve" to dye, or lose/waste dye, then it should not be a problem financially. Dye does not even help you statistically so I don't see the problem. This is IMO, and I agree that the Dye Trader is pretty useless, as well as dyes being expensive (especially when mixing) But I keep in mind that dying is useless as well as a luxury. |
FYI, i had over 21 plat before i bought the armor, and max damage weapon of choice. just over 1 plat after i bought both.
I, along with many other people have fallen victim to the nerfing of the game. i bought the game jut under a month ago... so by the time i had a character who could start to make money easily enough, everything had been farmed/nerfed so much, i havent even unlocked a single superior rune, let alone all of the minors or majors yet.
Advocate Of Hell
I agree with your arguments 2 and 3, though i do not agree with the color on armour preview. Lets keep this game a bit dificult, your asking for an easy way out.
AoH
AoH
Indigo
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Swarnt Brightstar
I was always curious about that... You can dye weapons and shields, but it does, guesss what, nothing... I dyed a bow I had silver (keep in mind I'm trying to get a guild hall) and It didnt do squatdidleydoo!
|
That's not exactly true... I died a hammer of mine and not only did the Ram portion "tint" purple, but the grip turned purple as well... I was so enthused that I dyed a sheild green only to find that it didn't do anything.
