.. rushers abusing arenas.

Just curious what y'all think about this.

Was fighting in the Ascalon Arenas when I met this fellow named Sango San. I wasn't paying attention to him at first--until he killed me. Since he was my last selected opponent, I was watching his spells--and imagine my surprise when Ether Renewal (elite) popped up on a level ten character, along with a number of other nasty lightning spells.

Huh!

He later confessed to having "top-notch" armor, armor I can only assume was from Draknor's Forge.

While it's not illegal, I'm curious what other people think about this. You know, being rushed to Draknor's Forge and then coming back to the Ascalon arena.

Sounds like a lame newb who can't stand to lose. So he tilts the odds in his favor by power-leveling and twinking. Happens in every game that allows it

One thing I like about this game is the fact it's not too linear, in that you can pretty much get to any area without having to keep doing missions.

However, this is where i have a little issue with the game. The Story Line.

It's a great storyline, don't get me wrong about that, but when it follows a story and you can get to areas that would only seem accessible by following the story, and enables these so called rushers to obtain this armor and some of these elite skills, that would seem to be for lvl20's only, is it about time, ANet, made it almost impossible for these people to get these elite skills unless you are lvl20 and ascended and to get to Draknor's Forge before you have even found out what certain Enemies/Allies(Don't want to spoil for any new players here) are getting up to, seems a little wrong.

Ok, i know people are playing this game for PvP in the arenas etc, but there is also a SIngle Player/ Coop Style element to this game as well. In most other games of this type, they wouldn't allow you to get to the end, without following the storyline.

So, either they make it so this armor elite skills are for lvl20 arenas only or for lvl20 characters only?

Just my thoughts.

Well, that's rotten sure as anything and isn't any better when he gets to the next arena. I hope that you talking to him opened his eyes to his own cheating, and that he'll avoid lower level arena's where he has an unfair advantage.

I don't want them to take away Lornars Pass though. It was my favorite part of the game. The first really challenging thing I've done in the game.

I don't like how the storyline transports you to new areas. To me it takes away from the exploration of the world. My friend and I have walked everywhere before we take the mission to get there. I like that I've had to figure out the winding trails and open up the map on my own. I don't want to have a storyline shoved down my throat.

They could put more slowing mobs in Lornars I guess, maybe some de-buffers to stop sprint and regen. At most a level restricter, say maybe 12, that stops this.

I'm in Draknar's armor before ascension but I fought for every bloody inch of it without running.

It would suck yea, but cheating.. no. If he is able to get there with these skills etc then so be it. You don't earn or gain anything from the arena except a little fun and some practice and the only "bad" thing would only be the /deaths count going up a little more.

It's not skills to be rushed with a bunch of level 20s.

/argree

No way was he able to make it to droknarrs with just npc's from Beacon. A single L20 would have issues making that run by themselves.

I'm sure it'd feel annoying, but it's really not a major issue. Winning, losing, the arenas are pretty pointless anyway. Just something to do when you're bored, and the only thing you get out of it is exp. (actually, have 4 friends on my list whom I met in PvP arenas. Great friendly people who I worked well with, and we still keep in touch and talk on occasion.)

That, and the skills and equipment are scaled to be appropriate for 8 vs 8 lvl 20 team battles.

Just enjoy the fights that aren't with such people, remember that while skill plays a major role in the game, obviously, equipment+skill advantage can be pretty impacting, and that your losses to such people aren't necessarily indicators in your lack skill. That, and they'll eventually level past the arena and get bored, and hopefully not be your problem anymore.

It's easy for a L20 to run the way to Droknar's. I do it all the time.

I find your blase attitude about blatantly unfair advantage disturbing. First, are you the arbiter of what part of the game is "pointless" or not? Well, Mercury Angel says it's pointless, guess we should all go home. What arrogance. So, to recap, because it's pointless to you, we shouldn't do anything about a blatantly unfair advantage that at best uses a loophole in a competitive environment. Cheating is ok to you because you don't fight there. I don't post here much, I play the game more, but I keep hearing stuff like this (and frankly it makes me think you are one of the rushed-to-Droknar's people fighting in the arena, which you'll deny, and nobody will be able to prove one way or the other), where people basically condone something because it's done to someone else. When something doesn't effect you, we humans use something called empathy, where we imagine what things would be like if we were in their shoes. The lack of it I find so often is disturbing as well.

Sounds like a poor lame noob that sucks in reall life.
Theres no problem with giving your new character good equipment and money you found with the older ones.
Elite spells and droknars armor with help from the guild is fine also.

But keep both out of the Lowlevel arenas ffs!!!!

A few level restrictions would be good. Lvl15 requirement for Draknor's armor and the set before it and lvl15 max in the Ascalon Arena wouldn't be too restricting, but it would also allow newbies to have an arena in which to play people that are similarily powerful.

Final Fantasy Online had a good idea for kind of thing. If your over the level of certain maps it drops your level to the max level range. So for Ascalon area a lvl 20 can join his newly joined lvl 8 friend as a lvl 10 etc. However the drawback is your limited to using only the skills you would have at the max lvl (in this case 10). So basically the devs just need to put level caps on certain spells. So that they can enter certain arenas, but not use elite skills in the lvl 1-10 arenas etc etc. Same with armor, put level requirements on it so that you can't wear it in a lower level arena.

It's only blatantly unfair if you can't do it yourself, which you can
Arena is "pointless" because there is no real effect on you - you dont win or lose anything. That's a factual statement, not an opinion.
And besides - it's random. The guy might spawn on your team. - It's a team game, so worrying about individual power is like worrying when playing a mesmer and then landing a team that doesn't support you.
Empathy is only important for suffering - being empathic towards someone who's merely annoyed is not necessary to being a good human being :P

Oh, and, in GvG games, every now and then you're bound to meet a group who has such overwhelming skill that you're hard pressed to beat them. Just think of twinked and rushed characters as an "emulator" for such experiences, to prepare you for later :P

Wait a second, Draknor's Forge has state of the art armor??!! I have yet to see it. I got there today and the armor there is decent, but not worth the plat to spend on it if you upgraded in Amnoon. Just my take from a monk's perspective.

video?

What the hell is wrong with you people calling the guy a noob? First of all, I understand if you have ill feelings towards his advantage (his FAIR advantage) over other low level PvPers. However, first of all, he is NOT a noob, as is shown by his relationship with other high level characters. Even a noob who has friends in high places will learn the ropes from them, such is the case with this particular "noob."

Second, don't hate him just because he took the time and effort, as well as his friends, to help him attain such skills/armor. You can all do it too. In this situation, everyone who flames this guy is like a person who decided not to unlock every skill and used a template PvPer who loses against someone who took the time and effort to build a custom PvPer. Then you go and blame the unlocker with his "unfair advantage" of more skills, etc. Utter BS. If you dislike it so bad, then you should go run Lornar's so you can PvP with this guy on more even terms. It's not like it's impossible for you.

Just like every other advantage in this game, it is gained through luck, time, and/or help from others. The only UNFAIR advantage would be the use of hacks, cheats, and bug exploits.

nah having a level 10 with draknors armor and elite skills from later in the game, its cheating the game system, which is cheating

Lornar's pass is a way for people who do not wish to Ascend to get to Droknar's.

So someone uses it at a lower than usual level. How is it cheating? There is no difference from a lvl 19 using Lornar's than a lvl 3.

People at level 19 want to feel more accomplished than a level 3. So that is the problem

Yeah, I don't get it.

By your thinking, as well, CtrlAltDel, a lvl 20 redoing missions with lower levels is cheating the game system. The Great Northern Wall was meant for low level players, and thus a level 20 running thet Wall is cheating the game system. Correct? Yet I hear no bitching about that.

because running the wall doesnt help you cheat out players in the PVP arenas, like running a character through to areas where hes not supposed to be

if you were supposed to have those skills and armor when you were a level 10 why not have them in ascalon

you are just trying to justify to yourself that it is ok to cheat and run low level players in the arenas

And what are you cheating them out of? A good time with fair PvP'ing?

Well if we do things your way, we're cheating the Lornar runner out of fun because maybe he enjoys it?

It's definately not cheating.. period. There are no lvl caps on armor or gear (only skill reqiurements on certain stuff). WTF is wrong with you people. Get off your butts if you do not like it and figure out how to get the gear. If you want it bad enough. The only requirement to something like this is time. The creators of the game put in lornar's pass. And if this person has the means/time to get to Droknar's via Lornar's. Then they deserve it. Half of you all have probably never made it half way thru. It can be a very intense task to do and I seriously doubt the person just sat at the entrance and waited for an hour or 2 if not alot more to be pulled thru.

Give me a break. To me it sounds like you all want everything handed to you with out doing anything at all. Instead of using your brain and being creative. Have you all really thought about how much grief he went thru for his rewards. I don't condone cheating but there is definetly nothing wrong with this if he has the means/time to do it.

no they dont deserve it because joe lvl3 sits in beacons all freaking day and spams 'will pay BIG MONEY for 20s to run through lornars'

how is this fair to everyone else

if you havnt noticed the devs have been making patches to make this game even competitive for the casual gamer, not just the 12 year old kids here with no life that have 500+ hours on their characters

I've heard so many people use the argument of "other player has more time, therefore the things he does which require time is unfair"

Yeah? Guess what? Get over it. It's not just this Lornar's "abuse" issue, but many other things. Someone with more time than you will also out-experience you in PvP from constant dueling. Are you then going to accuse him of having an unfair advantage? Because he has 500+ hours to get more dueling tips than you?

Have you ever considered exactly that- he sits all day and spams, it's the way he decides to play the game. Personally I find that boring I'd rather play, but to each thier own. I think any sort of powerleveling is pretty cheap, but since it's not against the rules and if they allow you to wear such and such armor that's a gameplay desision of the devs.

There will always be people in games that will find exploits

How many elites do you have. They are hard enough to get at lvl 20. now lets think about this.. ok. You say this person is 12 years old. you also say he paid big money for this. You can prove niether. elites at lvl 20 are a pain in the butt to get now let alone before the patch lets take a look at the date this thread started.

6-05-2005. thats before the bloody patch that made it where you could get elites after the boss was dead. now lets assume this person is a lvl 10 since you say lvl 3 hitpoints would be even lower for that person with out a -60. I do not recall what exactly the average HP is for lvl 10 players so i am gonna say 250 give a take a few points. now this guy has managed to get to droknar's (via lornar's) with very inferior armor. I don't care if the rest where lvl 20's or not. This person was in a team that could only hold 6 people for something that some teams of 8 would struggle on at times. Now he has managed to get to draknor's and where ever this elite skill has to be captured... gonna do some looking real quick and see what zone its in. Ok Ok I have just stumpled across something that even gonna make your guy's posty even more pointless. did anyone in this thread bother to look up where you get Ether Renewal. Im gonna leave it at that. make sure and well you look at the bloody elite skills section and learn where you ge that skill from. POINT AND CASE.

Assuming you know how a person did something is never a good way to present a post exspeacially like this. And if the poster and all the other people complaing would have taken the time to look at where that bloody skill comes from they would have not been so eager to jump this person. But since no one bothered to look at where this skill comes from it looks even more like a bunch of lazy whiners wanting stuff handed to them. sorry but seeing fictional arguments like this then having the pleasure of pointing out that in fact he did things the way you all say he should even makes you look worse.

Strange. Ether Renewal is only available from Ascension missions. Yet this level 10 "abuser" has it?

um in other words he did not use lornar's. Got it??? YW

Dude I got it. I was defending the guy, you know

oh sorry lol. got carried away i just get tired of people posting threads like this because they want the stuff handed to them. guess i should have paid closer atention to who i was reffering. so to you I am very sorry. And will be more carefull next time when posting.

wel, there are alot of skils out there that can ignore armor. stuff like deep wound also make low lvls suffer.

... I'd still bet a pound to a penny (dollar to a cent for our colonial cousins) that he's an ex log-off ganker from EVE...

He could be lol.

Only a few people would be able to answer that.


I was just so quick to jump in on this thread because people were bashing the snot out of his reputation by calling him a cheater on the basis of assumption. And if he is not aware of this thread so that he could defend himself. Then the posters accusing him of cheating should have taken the care to do 5 minutes of research to figure out if in fact there assumptions had any ground to stand on.

I will say that the origional poster attempted to clearify that this was based on assumption by saying "He later confessed to having "top-notch" armor, armor I can only assume was from Draknor's Forge."

assumption can be a very bad and distructive thing. If not thought out.

Anyways...............

If someone wants to put in all the work to get a newb to the desert/Draknors just to get good armor so he can pvp...well let him. Just remember that this player isnt using actuall skill. These type of players are really fun to play later on, because they get so (this was censored) 'full of themselves'. Inevitabally when you beat his arse into the ground at level 20 he will accuse you of cheating.

It's 'pointless' because there's no gain or loss from it. Obviously, the same goes for the entire game of guildwars, but the point should be obvious. You may run into the person and lose because of it, but you've lost nothing at all really. There're no penalties for it.

As for cheating, it's not. At best it's griefing.

As for a lack of empathy, I don't think you do too well in that department either

While it's unfortunate, there's absolutely nothing you can do about it, and it's perfectly within the rules. However, I imparted the reminder that not every battle will be like that, and that the people that do so won't stay within the level limit forever.

What part above is a hostile or professes a lack of caring?

I think the moment you read that I didn't agree with you, you decided I must be against you, and immediately felt all comments made were hostile remarks. Well, sorry, but the world isn't out to get you.

Take a step back and re-read, and reconsider.

You're getting all riled up about an issue that is merely a bonus to the game. Guild Wars is built and focused around 8 vs 8 combat, with all people at lvl 20, with everything appropriately scaled as such.

You're going to an arena that is 4 vs 4 and lvl capped. The game wasn't centered around that. Things aren't balanced for them, nor should they be.

And THIS is why people are afraid of what would happen should 1 vs 1 arenas be created. Massive complaints about game balancing for something that was just an afterthought added for a little fun because people asked.

Someone who's posting with a closed mind need not lecture me about empathy. Before listening to others, you'd already decided what is and isn't cheating, who is and isn't such a 'cheater', and you've even decided my degree of empathy for me, how sweet.

Well, I'm sorry if I can't get upset for you because you got beat down by someone who had an advantage over you, but you know what? I don't get upset when I lose either.
Yes, I'll make a stray comment of how I think drawing out battles pointlessly through things like trapping an area and waiting for the enemy team to step on it is foolish, or using run buff/debuffs and mending to survive indefinitely, even if you can't kill anybody or revive your allies. Those are mild annoyances, but that's about it. And after encountering them, I learn to deal with them appropriately.
If you were struck by a car, sick, injured, some other malady of the body, mind, or soul, I could empathize.
But you walked into a place intended for pointless fun, not serious competition, and when others who treated it as a place for serious competition, who prepared themselves appropriately, you lost sight of what it was in the first place.

I told you all that need be said:
There's nothing you can do about it, the game wasn't built for it, it's just there as a fun alternative to bashing monsters with PvE characters for a while. And if it matters that much to you, you can take heart in that the people who you dislike so much won't stay level 10 forever.

Take a step back and look at it objectively. I never said I approve of what they do to gain their advantage, but neither do I disapprove.
I gave an explanation of why the arena battles are already slanted and unbalanced, a reminder that they offer no penalty or gain whether you win or lose, and ended my post with a positive note reminding that each person doing it won't be around forever because they'll eventually level up and out of the arena.
If you're unprepared to handle somebody with a neutral stance, such that you have to take their comments as of a hostile nature, then there's no point in creating such a thread.

While empathy might be an important trait, if you can't see beyond the colours of black and white, you're certainly just as badly, if not moreso, off.

30-45 minutes of video on a forum? are you kidding me?

If you would like me to show you, I charge 8k for a run, so you can pay that and see for yourself. And I charge at the Forge, not up front.

kthxbye

The issue here is that for most players, the low-level arenas are their first experiences with PvP in Guild Wars. If these arenas are dominated by characters that have much better armor, weapons, or skills, then this will turn off many from trying any PvP later on.

Fighting in the low-level arenas like this may not be against the rules, but it certainly diminishes the experience for other "regular" players. So, if you care about other players enjoying the game then you should refrain from abusing the low-level arenas. If you don't care, OK, then just go ahead...

I actually wouldn't mind running through that myself a bit later on. Not sure whether to use my char that's got to Thunderhead peak or the one that I just got to Sanctum Cay with, but not many people with the level, skill and persistance are in Beacons Perch to try it out. I got halfway through once with henchies and got slaughtered off by a combination of a mob we could barely handle and a sandworm which tipped the scales.